Globalization

[hobbit_feet]

Listening to Osama Bin Laden's speech seems to suggest that rather than being a war on terror he is fighting what they consider the "neo-colonialists", the Multinational Companies and organizations that are stripping away culture and independence.
Is this a front to carry out merciless attacks for private religious purposes? Has the press slightly exaggerated this in such a way Western Governments can use it as propaganda to keep the West rich and everybody else poor (West. vs. The Rest)

What do people think?

[Marxist Nutter]

Listening to Osama Bin Laden's speech seems to suggest that rather than being a war on terror he is fighting what they consider the "neo-colonialists", the Multinational Companies and organizations that are stripping away culture and independence.
Is this a front to carry out merciless attacks for private religious purposes? Has the press slightly exaggerated this in such a way Western Governments can use it as propaganda to keep the West rich and everybody else poor (West. vs. The Rest)

What do people think?People very rarely listen to what the guy has to say they just assume he is a mad nutter. In this case they are right to do so, but I think it is a bad habit to ignore people's arguments as it leads to them being misundertood and misrepresented.

Bin Laden, for example makes the case that if the USA is a democracy as they say then the people must be held responsible for the actions of their government. This is how he justifies killing civilians. As much as a hate this argument - I have to admit logically speaking he has a point.

This is a complicated issue and it will not be made any easier by us ignoring what extremists actually say. I think many do think they are fighting neo-colonialism and oppression of their people, to understand this is the first step to challenging their tactics rather than simply labeling people as 'evil' (which they also do) - this serves no useful purpose and is a barrier to meaningful dialogue

[Midas]

People very rarely listen to what the guy has to say they just assume he is a mad nutter. In this case they are right to do so, but I think it is a bad habit to ignore people's arguments as it leads to them being misunderstood and misrepresented......

I quite agree, it's far too easy for people who are either ignorant of a situation or are so fixated on their own viewpoint to the exclusion of all others, to have simplistic black or white views.

There's rarely anything which is so clear-cut, and the very fact that any group has a significant number of supporters is indicative that its viewpoint must have substance. We might well detest the means by which terrorists conduct their campaigns, but that on its own doesn't mean that their grievences, as they see them, aren't valid and if relevant, shouldn't be discussed.

The saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is as true today as it always has been, and we also mustn't forget that today's terrorists can also go on to become tomorrow's legitimate governments. We've only to look at Israel during the 1940s and 50s to see that, when terrorist groups like the Stern Gang went on to become that country's government.

Just to be clear though, I'm talking generalisations here, my remarks aren't meant to endorse any terrorist group, simply that to dismiss them and their situation can be very counter-productive!

[pauli007001]

We should Listen very closely to Bin Ladens words,and his actions,then we can drop really big bombs on him!!!!!!!!

[Spartacus]

I agree with the sentiments expressed by Midas and MN earlier.

But I would just like to add some further observations.

Bin Laden/al Qaeda have taken the place of the Big red Bear title bestowed upon Soviet Russia ,imo.

Nearly every muslim groups terrorist actions have that trailer " suspected links to al Qaeda " when covered by the western media. The fact that these people , or a great many of them , probably have no links to Bin Laden and co would lead to a craving in the west to know who they are and why they have done what they have done.

That could prove awkward to western elites who are aware that their biggest threat is from their own people. For it involves the public learning what is being done in their names in muslim countries ( and elsewhere ) and for whos benefit. And I don't mean the sanitized versions we are accustomed to seeing.

In short I think Bin Laden/alQaeda are the focal point for the western media but the anti western sentiments/arguments have much broader support.
If we are led to believe all this strife is mainly down to extremists ( the term is contentious anyway ) we will not seek to question our own actions ( their greivences ) in too much detail as a result

[pauli007001]

I agree with the sentiments expressed by Midas and MN earlier.

But I would just like to add some further observations.

Bin Laden/al Qaeda have taken the place of the Big red Bear title bestowed upon Soviet Russia ,imo.

Nearly every muslim groups terrorist actions have that trailer " suspected links to al Qaeda " when covered by the western media. The fact that these people , or a great many of them , probably have no links to Bin Laden and co would lead to a craving in the west to know who they are and why they have done what they have done.

That could prove awkward to western elites who are aware that their biggest threat is from their own people. For it involves the public learning what is being done in their names in muslim countries ( and elsewhere ) and for whos benefit. And I don't mean the sanitized versions we are accustomed to seeing.

In short I think Bin Laden/alQaeda are the focal point for the western media but the anti western sentiments/arguments have much broader support.
If we are led to believe all this strife is mainly down to extremists ( the term is contentious anyway ) we will not seek to question our own actions ( their greivences ) in too much detail as a result

We can still drop big bombs on them though,before they send them there cyanide bombers back to get us??Or do we have to stand there and take the bombings like a man?I know lets turn the other cheek!!!!!!The attacked NYC,Madrid and london because they enjoy killing!!!!!How on earth could 4 English kids(LONDON bombers )have suffered the actions of the west when they lived and suceeded in the west!!!!!!!Your opinion is extremely niave,and the idea of any understanding of people who saw off heads slowly and stone little girls to death because they were sexually abused is ridiculous.You will advise that the next step will be negotiations!!!!!Yup we can see how that will end up!!!!!!!we can watch it on you tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spartacus]

We can still drop big bombs on them though,before they send them there cyanide bombers back to get us??!

Drop bombs on who ?

The vast majority of those who carried out the 9/11 attacks where Saudis. How many of those big bombs you have a fixation with have been used there ?

I think you should start thinking for yourself and not just show the hysterical( not funny hysterical ) effect the western propaganda system has on some people.

[pauli007001]

Drop bombs on who ?

The vast majority of those who carried out the 9/11 attacks where Saudis. How many of those big bombs you have a fixation with have been used there ?

I think you should start thinking for yourself and not just show the hysterical( not funny hysterical ) effect the western propaganda system has on some people.

Oh if you Know so much about it,i think you should personally go to Iraq,afghanistan or pakistan(or wherever else your beloved Bin liner,i mean Bin laded resides )and you be the first to negotiate with him,if as you claim he is such a nice guy doing what is nessesary for a better world.See how that works out,but dont lose your head!!!!!!!:DIf you do not agree to this then i can only assume that you will agree to the dropping of Big bombs on all of Alquaidas operatives in all the places where they hang out!!!!!!Or would you prefer (and celebrate again)some more terrorist attacks on the innocent world by the islamofascists who kill the free because they hate freedom and will not rest until we all become followers or their evil branch of Islam!!!!!Of course who then will be their first target for beheading.......The socialists like yourself who assisted their invasion!!!!!!!!!!Patriots like me will have died honorable deaths in battle defending our homes!!!!

[Midas]

We can still drop big bombs on them though...
[ ... ]
What do you think the US, UK and other allies in the so-called 'war on terror' have been trying to do for the last decade or more?

Ignoring for a moment that much of this 'war on terror' was a US political invention in order to stimulate their own flagging economy and give the people a focus of attention, there's very little factual evidence that Al Qaeda is actually any form of cohesive international terrorist organisation.

Several ex-military commanders from both sides of the Atlantic have gone on record stating that their political masters have been doing little more than chasing ghosts, aggravating the lives of tens of millions of people around the world along the way.

It's so easy for any political leader to cry wolf, just as Bush did over Iraq, to stir up massive unrest and war, largely to their own benefit. Without defending their actions at all, it's very easy to see how those people whose lives have been ruined and whose religious beliefs have been abused, can rebel against 'the aggressor', particularly when the original attack was baseless. It's a self-perpetuating cycle, and continuing to drop bombs will achieve little other than to cause a huge amount of needless destruction, kill large numbers of otherwise totally innocent civilians and stir up yet more hatred.

[Spartacus]

Oh if you Know so much about it,i think you should personally go to Iraq,afghanistan or pakistan(or wherever else your beloved Bin liner,i mean Bin laded resides )and you be the first to negotiate with him,if as you claim he is such a nice guy doing what is nessesary for a better world.See how that works out,but dont lose your head!!!!!!!If you do not agree to this then i can only assume that you will agree to the dropping of Big bombs on all of Alquaidas operatives in all the places where they hang out!!!!!!Or would you prefer (and celebrate again)some more terrorist attacks on the innocent world by the islamofascists who kill the free because they hate freedom and will not rest until we all become followers or their evil branch of Islam!!!!!Of course who then will be their first target for beheading.......The socialists like yourself who assisted their invasion!!!!!!!!!!Patriots like me will have died honorable deaths in battle defending our homes!!!!

Where have I ever claimed that Bin laden is a " nice guy "?

Why is he " beloved " to me ? Have I ever said that ?

I can't take you seriously.

[Back2reality]

Bin Laden doesn't like Jews.

[pauli007001]

Where have I ever claimed that Bin laden is a " nice guy "?

Why is he " beloved " to me ? Have I ever said that ?

I can't take you seriously.


Yeah i know that,im an independant thinker!!!!!!
I despise the cowardice of terrorism!!!!
To criticise the Squaddie fighting terror on the front line is to take the terrorists side!!!!!
Lefties have spent years spitting at us attacking us attacking our children all through bosnia,Kosovo and afghanistan(in my day)!!!!After i was crippled in the service of my country my Brothers and sisters continue to be subjected to violence and hatred by those who despise them(cant say lefties any more ) and even their kids in school have been subjected to abuse by the kids of reactionary (dole dossing) swp types(even though non of the swp actualy are workers,change the mane to sddp,socialist dole dossers party)!!!!!!!!!!!!!But seriously dont take me seriously,i do have a sense of humor,you should try it and apply it,perhaps then you will develop a sense of non judgmentalism and equality,and lose the better than thou attitude you seam to have(unless i am mistaken but i sense a lot of superiority and almost a notion of finger wagging in the tone of your posts)I am a very perceptive (although thick and dimwitted according to dougie G,oh and a persistent racist and homophobic,i am sure you will agree with him i do after all disagree with socialism.....and that makes me........well you know)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spartacus]

Yeah i know that,im an independant thinker!!!!!!

That doesn't come over in your posts.


I despise the cowardice of terrorism!!!!

Some of us are able to recognize State terrorism as being equally cowardly. That doesn't mean they support terrorism , though. That's something you seem to have a problem understanding

To criticise the Squaddie fighting terror on the front line is to take the terrorists side!!!!!

I suppose it would be pointless asking you to quote where I have criticized the ordinary soldiers who are thrown into these situations. My last reply here asked you to quote proof of some other allegations you saw fit to throw in my direction. You chose to ignore that request and talk about yourself instead ( I am very perceptive too ;) )

But seriously dont take me seriously,i do have a sense of humor,you should try it and apply it,perhaps then you will develop a sense of non judgmentalism and equality,and lose the better than thou attitude you seam to have(unless i am mistaken but i sense a lot of superiority and almost a notion of finger wagging in the tone of your posts)I am a very perceptive (although thick and dimwitted according to dougie G,oh and a persistent racist and homophobic,i am sure you will agree with him i do after all disagree with socialism.....and that makes me........well you know)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh I have a sense of humour alright, it just doesn't stretch far enough to include the promotion of hatred. ( which is what I pickup from your posts )Gays , the umemployed , leftists , muslims.......... it appears that anyone and everyone could be a target ( did I miss anyone ? )

Hatred stifles reason , compassion empowers it ,imo. Hence the problems you seem to have when encountering people who enjoy a reasoned argument. If you were to lose that hatred maybe you would see others in a different light.

Good luck !!!

BTW thx for the criticisms of my posts , I will bear them in mind in future postings ( don't want to send the wrong signal out ) so TA

[pauli007001]

That doesn't come over in your posts.



Some of us are able to recognize State terrorism as being equally cowardly. That doesn't mean they support terrorism , though. That's something you seem to have a problem understanding


I suppose it would be pointless asking you to quote where I have criticized the ordinary soldiers who are thrown into these situations. My last reply here asked you to quote proof of some other allegations you saw fit to throw in my direction. You chose to ignore that request and talk about yourself instead ( I am very perceptive too ;) )


Oh I have a sense of humour alright, it just doesn't stretch far enough to include the promotion of hatred. ( which is what I pickup from your posts )Gays , the umemployed , leftists , muslims.......... it appears that anyone and everyone could be a target ( did I miss anyone ? )

Hatred stifles reason , compassion empowers it ,imo. Hence the problems you seem to have when encountering people who enjoy a reasoned argument. If you were to lose that hatred maybe you would see others in a different light.

Good luck !!!

BTW thx for the criticisms of my posts , I will bear them in mind in future postings ( don't want to send the wrong signal out ) so TA


Well now,i would like to thank you for the completely false allegation that i have shown hatred of gays or muslims(exepting the violent jihadist types)the unemployed thing i can see but it is not hatred it is an unwillingness to pay for their lazyness(when i am busting my hump daily down in an enclased tunnel underneath crimbling foundations with a shovel,a pick,a chainsaw a sledge hammer risking life and limb to pay for their easy life on my work shortened life,and believe me in my job not many live past 50 due to silica dust from the granite used in old foundations,radon,fumes etc,i am enjoying my second battle with cancer in the past 3 years both related to my work)Why can i not be allowed to pass MY money on to my kids,it is why i am working myself into an early grave,but NO the UK govnt will take the majority of it if i send it to my Kids how is that fair?How is it hatred?I lived for 33 years in the UK(not taking off the times i served abroad)i often worked a second and third job,i i can find 90 or more hours a week why cant others find 40?I did the crappest of jobs working for Min wage,including time at Mc Donalds and for better pay as a NA in a secure unit for mentally disordered offenders,if i can do it,why not them????

I will request that you proove i have posted ANY hatred for gays,that is in my opinion a blatent lie and an insult,i have posted criticism of muslims in the past,particulary fundimental muslims,and the Muslim comunity at large for not being outspoken enough in their critisim of those Fundies,this is critisism not hatred,however get back to me on the Gay thing!!!!!!But no Kissing!!!!