BNP: Ignorance or Hate?

[Neo2012]

Are BNP members thick, or blinded by hate?
When you listen to the 'intellectuals' from the BNP like Barnbrook, they always repeat the same script, like little schoolboys, so impressed with how clever they are, but they are clearly too stupid to research what they have been told to say.
One of the ones you regularly hear when talking about their racist membership policy, is the comparison of the BNP to the National Black Police Association. After seeing sussex stupidly parroting this, it took me 120 seconds to research this;

National Black Police Association UK - NBPA
The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.
The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)

Comparing the BNP to nbpa is like comparing the black civil rights movement to the KKK, but there again I wouldn't put that passed the fascists. Remember what goebbles said, if you're going to tell them a lie, tell a big lie.

　
Some people tell me that the BNP is not a racist party. This is from their constitution,

SECTION 2: MEMBERSHIP
1) The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political, Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the
legal ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.
2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous
Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic
Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The
Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic
Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The
Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The
Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic
groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.
3) Membership of the party shall be open only to those who are 16 years of age or over and whose ethnic origin is listed within Sub-section 2

[SussexWithLove]

It took you 120 seconds to research it and a few days to reply.

The BNP stand for indigenous rights, what’s the difference?

To join the Black Police association you can be white, because Black isn’t a colour, all you need to do to qualify is state that you have something in common with Black police officers and oppose racism? Can I join if I oppose WHITE racism, and I dont mean white as in colour, i mean white as in culture lol


Where’s the actual link to their website page which states criteria for joining?

I didn’t vote because there wasn’t an option that says "i do not agree with any of these options, this survey is very ignorant and racist"

[Opinionated]

This is hard poll to take a definitive stand in one way or another. Some BNP supporters are quite clearly ignorant, you will find stupid people in all parties. Some like most of what they hear and actively choose to ignore the less sanitary parts. Some (not sure how accurate the claim is it's only a small few) are undoubtedly out and out white supremecist nut cases. Some even are vunerable people who the BNP have "converted".
I shall abstain from voting as I prefer to judge each member as an individual.

[Midas]

You've rather taken the words out of my own mouth there Opinionated. It's for exactly the same reasons that I've not voted either.

[Neo2012]

It took you 120 seconds to research it and a few days to reply.

been to spain 4 a week, so reply delay due to that.

The BNP stand for indigenous rights, what’s the difference?

can you see any difference between the black civil rights movement, and the Klu Klux Klan? I need to know your honest answer to that question.

To join the Black Police association you can be white, because Black isn’t a colour, all you need to do to qualify is state that you have something in common with Black police officers and oppose racism? Can I join if I oppose WHITE racism, and I dont mean white as in colour, i mean white as in culture lol

read, (There is no barrier to membership)

Where’s the actual link to their website page which states criteria for joining?

that's my point, why don't YOU and Barnbrook do the research?

I didn’t vote because there wasn’t an option that says "i do not agree with any of these options,

I know.

this survey is very ignorant and racist"

define racist!

---------- Post added at 11:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:14 AM ----------

This is hard poll to take a definitive stand in one way or another. Some BNP supporters are quite clearly ignorant, you will find stupid people in all parties. Some like most of what they hear and actively choose to ignore the less sanitary parts. Some (not sure how accurate the claim is it's only a small few) are undoubtedly out and out white supremecist nut cases. Some even are vunerable people who the BNP have "converted".
I shall abstain from voting as I prefer to judge each member as an individual.

there was multiple options, so you could have chose stupid and ignorant.

[Midas]

there was multiple options, so you could have chose stupid and ignorant.

But they're not all stupid and ignorant are they? To choose that option is to be rather narrow minded IMO.

[Neo2012]

But they're not all stupid and ignorant are they? To choose that option is to be rather narrow minded IMO.

OK, let's start with sussex, even when confronted with incontrovertible evidence of the stupidity of his argument, re-nbpa, he is incapable of acknowledging that. In my opinion, he is so blinded by hate he is incapable acknowledging. possibly he's too thick. What other alternative is there?

Can you think of any member who isn't blinded by hate?

btw, the options were too thick or too blinded by hate, not stupid or ignorant? Too blinded by hate is in my opinion the logical explanation for fascism.

[Midas]

OK, let's start with sussex, even when confronted with incontrovertible evidence of the stupidity of his argument, re-nbpa, he is incapable of acknowledging that. In my opinion, he is so blinded by hate he is incapable acknowledging. possibly he's too thick. What other alternative is there?

Can you think of any member who isn't blinded by hate?

btw, the options were too thick or too blinded by hate, not stupid or ignorant? Too blinded by hate is in my opinion the logical explanation for fascism.

Let's not personalise this please!

I'm talking generally, and I don't think that you can honestly answer a question in a survey or a poll when you know it's not true for everyone, that's all I'm saying.

[Neo2012]

Let's not personalise this please!

I'm talking generally, and I don't think that you can honestly answer a question in a survey or a poll when you know it's not true for everyone, that's all I'm saying.

OK mate, thats your prerogative.

I have to admit, the poll was originally intended to be a little bit mischievous, and I didn't intend it to be taken too seriously. However, the more I talk to people like Sussex, the more they all seem to use the same debating style. They point blank refuse categorical proof, when it's presented to them, and regardless of the facts continue to repeat lies. I think the option 'to blinded by hate' is prevalent amongst the BNP membership enough, to say it is a fair generalisation, if not pertaining to every single member.

btw, most of the polls on this topic are bent in some way. There is a recent series on BBC two on the white working class, I forget the name, where questions were framed to paint the picture they wanted.

[DTE]

I went for ignorant, I think that at best sums up most of them. Now there's 2 types of ignorance, the blissful, unaware type, and the one where you stick your fingers in your ears and refuse to acknowledge the truth. Those that fall into the former category are at worst naive, and I attach no blame to them, they've been taken in by this new, slicker BNP, and one day they'll realise. Just because you stop saying fascist things, does not make you not a fascist.

The others, well its either a stubborn refusal to accept the truth about Griffin and his band of merry men, or a secret desire for a fascist state, which they believe the BNP will bring forth.

[Neo2012]

Neo although I agree somewhat with your post, as a moderator here I will draw your attention to the 'Other Place' where the rules are slightly different; but I must warn you not to make personal attacks on the main boards

ok, my apologies.

[Nicholas]

Are BNP members thick, or blinded by hate?
When you listen to the 'intellectuals' from the BNP like Barnbrook, they always repeat the same script, like little schoolboys, so impressed with how clever they are, but they are clearly too stupid to research what they have been told to say.
One of the ones you regularly hear when talking about their racist membership policy, is the comparison of the BNP to the National Black Police Association. After seeing sussex stupidly parroting this, it took me 120 seconds to research this;
Comparing the BNP to nbpa is like comparing the black civil rights movement to the KKK, but there again I wouldn't put that passed the fascists. Remember what goebbles said, if you're going to tell them a lie, tell a big lie.[/FONT]

Why would anybody of another ethnicity want to join the BNP?

[Neo2012]

Why would anybody of another ethnicity want to join the BNP?

ON topic, why would the BNP you want to lie about the nbpa? Oh yes, I remember, to cover up their nasty little NAZI constitution.

[Midas]

btw, most of the polls on this topic are bent in some way. There is a recent series on BBC two on the white working class, I forget the name, where questions were framed to paint the picture they wanted.

I'm very well aware of that. There's a real art to framing questions for a poll in such a way that doesn't lead the respondent to give the answer that you might want them to. That's generally why independent polling companies like YouGov, MORI and BMRB get used to conduct such surveys.

[SussexWithLove]

can you see any difference between the black civil rights movement, and the Klu Klux Klan? I need to know your honest answer to that question.

Of course, the KKK is a white Supremacist group and the black police association is not. What is your point?

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]read, (There is no barrier to membership)

Yes, there is, you have to oppose racism towards black people and have something in common with the black culture. I oppose racism to everyone and I have nothing in common with black culture, so I could not join because I woulnt fully believe. Can you join if you are not a copper?

[FONT=Verdana] that's my point, why don't YOU and Barnbrook do the research?

I looked at their website and could not find it. I've looked at their website before and didnt see anything that supports what you wrote. You really need to back your claims up with this little thing called EVIDENCE, which is why I am asking for it. No evidence = no argument.

I know. define racist!

there was multiple options, so you could have chose stupid and ignorant.

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]You are denying the white indigenous people of Britain stance and calling them stupid or ignorant when they try to voice their opinion.

I have noticed your personal attacks towards me. Far left extreme liberal types get very personal when you loose arguments.

[Neo2012]

You are denying the white indigenous people of Britain stance and calling them stupid or ignorant when they try to voice their opinion.
I have noticed your personal attacks towards me. Far left extreme liberal types get very personal when you loose arguments.

when the BNP members constantly lie, cant understand basic concepts, and fail to understand written word, it is a normal human frustration to question their mental faculties. For example;

Yes, there is, you have to oppose racism towards black people and have something in common with the black culture. I oppose racism to everyone and I have nothing in common with black culture, so I could not join because I woulnt fully believe. Can you join if you are not a copper?

This what was actually written;

National Black Police Association UK - NBPA
The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.
The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)

There is NO constitution for you to find on the site barring white members of the nbpa, because Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership).
I've just asked my 9 year old son to read and interpret that last sentence, he understood why BNP members might have difficulty, and suggested it might read better "there is no barrier to membership of the NBPA to anyone within policing". Do you want me to get him to explain the other bit to the BNP members as well?

[Nicholas]

ON topic, why would the BNP you want to lie about the nbpa? Oh yes, I remember, to cover up their nasty little NAZI constitution.

How many white members are there in the NBPA?

[Nicholas]

when the BNP members constantly lie, cant understand basic concepts, and fail to understand written word, it is a normal human frustration to question their mental faculties. For example;[/FONT]
This what was actually written;There is NO constitution for you to find on the site barring white members of the nbpa, because Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership).
I've just asked my 9 year old son to read and interpret that last sentence, he understood why BNP members might have difficulty, and suggested it might read better "there is no barrier to membership of the NBPA to anyone within policing". Do you want me to get him to explain the other bit to the BNP members as well?

White folk are not allowed to become full members of the NBPA. You are wrong, they can only become associate members. This Tory MP clearly thinks they are a racist organisation:

Tory MP addresses National Black Police Association annual conference... and blasts THEM as racist | Mail Online

I dont though, they are just sticking up for their own interests.

[SussexWithLove]

when the BNP members constantly lie, cant understand basic concepts, and fail to understand written word, it is a normal human frustration to question their mental faculties. For example;[/FONT]
This what was actually written;There is NO constitution for you to find on the site barring white members of the nbpa, because Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership).

I've just asked my 9 year old son to read and interpret that last sentence, he understood why BNP members might have difficulty, and suggested it might read better "there is no barrier to membership of the NBPA to anyone within policing". Do you want me to get him to explain the other bit to the BNP members as well?

im still waiting for the link to where it states what you are saying???? maybe your son could find that for me if you are struggling to find it.

[Neo2012]

How many white members are there in the NBPA?

More than you have Muslim members. Merseyside Black Police Association

[Nicholas]

More than you have Muslim members. Merseyside Black Police Association

Do you have an exact figure for me please? and I mean full members!

[Neo2012]

White folk are not allowed to become full members of the NBPA. You are wrong, they can only become associate members. This Tory MP clearly thinks they are a racist organisation:

Tory MP addresses National Black Police Association annual conference... and blasts THEM as racist | Mail Online

I dont though, they are just sticking up for their own interests.

How many Muslim associate members has the BNP? Comparing the fascists constitution and party motivations, to that of the NBPA, remains like comparing the black civil rights movement in America to the KKK.

I actually agree with you that white members should be full members, not because they need to, not because they suffer race discrimination in the police force, but just because white people can be just as motivated to fight discrimination against minorities as anyone else.

[Nicholas]

The BNP have a member called Lawrence Rustem who is half turkish cypriot. He is chair of the ethnic liason commitee. The BNP have also had a associate member who was a Sikh who did the the same job as Rustem. What is the number of white associate members of NBPA?

[SussexWithLove]

More than you have Muslim members. Merseyside Black Police Association

WHO ARE WE?

"Merseyside Black Police Association (MBPA) is a support network consisting of black and minority ethnic (BME) police officers and police staff of all ranks and grades from across the force. We also have a number of associate members who have declared an interest and commitment to furthering the aims of MBPA."

Doesnt say anything about "there is no barrier to membership".

How can a liar call other people a liar?

[Marxist Nutter]

The other option on the poll should be FEAR

Most BNP people seem to share a common fear of.....well anything different from them I guess


The BNP is all about the Politics of Fear

Not very British if you ask me!

[Neo2012]

WHO ARE WE?

"Merseyside Black Police Association (MBPA) is a support network consisting of black and minority ethnic (BME) police officers and police staff of all ranks and grades from across the force. We also have a number of associate members who have declared an interest and commitment to furthering the aims of MBPA."

Doesnt say anything about "there is no barrier to membership".

How can a liar call other people a liar?

Membership is open to all police officers and police staff of any rank and grade, irrespective of ethnic origin. To obtain further information or an application form, please contact us on 0151 777 4406.

[Neo2012]

The BNP have a member called Lawrence Rustem who is half turkish cypriot. He is chair of the ethnic liason commitee. The BNP have also had a associate member who was a Sikh who did the the same job as Rustem. What is the number of white associate members of NBPA?

Wow so how is that squared with constitution, which expressly forbids his membership? Why don't you change the constitution? I mean if you're just a nationalist organization, why don't you make so Amir Kahn can join, he says he's proud to be British nationalist?

And why did the Sikh leave?

re-nbpa; To obtain further information or an application form, please contact us on 0151 777

[Neo2012]

The other option on the poll should be FEAR

Most BNP people seem to share a common fear of.....well anything different from them I guess


The BNP is all about the Politics of Fear

Not very British if you ask me!

How dare you, the master race is not frightened!!!!

[SussexWithLove]

The other option on the poll should be FEAR

Most BNP people seem to share a common fear of.....well anything different from them I guess


The BNP is all about the Politics of Fear

Not very British if you ask me!

I think you're confusing fear with concern for ones country again.

[SussexWithLove]

Membership is open to all police officers and police staff of any rank and grade, irrespective of ethnic origin. To obtain further information or an application form, please contact us on 0151 777 4406.

Its not up to me to find this information out, its up to you to prove it. So far you have failed. All you have done is try to spread hate about the BNP.

Next time when you want to be clever try backing it up with evidence (some people prefer to use the word prove)

[JacquesMagique]

Its not up to me to find this information out, its up to you to prove it. So far you have failed. All you have done is try to spread hate about the BNP.

Next time when you want to be clever try backing it up with evidence (some people prefer to use the word prove)

hmmm

Membership is open to all police officers and police staff of any rank and grade, irrespective of ethnic origin. To obtain further information or an application form, please contact us on 0151 777 4406.

Seems like proof to me.

[SussexWithLove]

Seems like proof to me.

Im still waiting for the evidence that states this..............

(There is no barrier to membership).

[Neo2012]

WHO ARE WE?

"Merseyside Black Police Association (MBPA) is a support network consisting of black and minority ethnic (BME) police officers and police staff of all ranks and grades from across the force. We also have a number of associate members who have declared an interest and commitment to furthering the aims of MBPA."

Doesnt say anything about "there is no barrier to membership".

How can a liar call other people a liar?

To be fair I can see your problem. If you go to the website the National Black Police Association UK - NBPA - Home in the top right hand corner you will see a part of the text is chopped off, it ends with " there is". So I did ctrl + a, ctrl + c, and paste the text to notepad to see what it said. It says
The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.
The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)

[SussexWithLove]

To be fair I can see your problem. If you go to the website the National Black Police Association UK - NBPA - Home in the top right hand corner you will see a part of the text is chopped off, it ends with " there is". So I did ctrl + a, ctrl + c, and paste the text to notepad to see what it said. It says
The definition of "Black" does not refer to skin colour.
The emphasis is on the common experience and determination of the people of African, African-Caribbean and Asian origin to oppose the effects of racism. Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)

Ok now we've got somewhere and you actually have an arguement. The problem with this statement, which was added so they wouldnt be called racist, is the following...

It contradicts itself. Everyone within policing is eligible to join as long as you have common experience to oppose black racism. Theres no mention of white racism. I oppose racism to black and white people so theres not much point of me joining.

Its a safety statement which is why its difficult to find.

How many full members are actually white? I bet ZERO.

If anyone can join, why write this??

"Merseyside Black Police Association (MBPA) is a support network consisting of black and minority ethnic (BME) police officers and police staff of all ranks and grades from across the force. We also have a number of associate members who have declared an interest and commitment to furthering the aims of MBPA."

[Neo2012]

Ok now we've got somewhere and you actually have an arguement. The problem with this statement, which was added so they wouldnt be called racist, is the following...

It contradicts itself. Everyone within policing is eligible to join as long as you have common experience to oppose black racism. Theres no mention of white racism. I oppose racism to black and white people so theres not much point of me joining.

Its a safety statement which is why its difficult to find.

How many full members are actually white? I bet ZERO.

If anyone can join, why write this??

"Merseyside Black Police Association (MBPA) is a support network consisting of black and minority ethnic (BME) police officers and police staff of all ranks and grades from across the force. We also have a number of associate members who have declared an interest and commitment to furthering the aims of MBPA."

1. You are still misreading the original statement.
2. Your quoted statement says they have more than zero assoc memb [whites].

So no matter how much you dance around the issue, the policy for membership is not the same as the fascists, and so the fascists are lying.

But more importantly is the intention of the organisation. The fascists quite clearly state their intention is to discriminate against those who don't fit in into the fascist prescription of British. In

[SussexWithLove]

1. You are still misreading the original statement.
2. Your quoted statement says they have more than zero assoc memb [whites].

So no matter how much you dance around the issue, the policy for membership is not the same as the fascists, and so the fascists are lying.

But more importantly is the intention of the organisation. The fascists quite clearly state their intention is to discriminate against those who don't fit in into the fascist prescription of British. In

Yes i quoted a statement that says they may have white associate members, who aren’t full members.

How many full members are white ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????

[Neo2012]

Yes i quoted a statement that says they may have white associate members, who aren’t full members.

How many full members are white ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????

how would I know? I've given you the phone number. I've given you the statement from them, that they have associate members.

Now, can the nationalist Amir Khan, you know that boxer who was very keen to waive the British flag when he won British medals, can he join the bnp. I'll answer for you, according to the BNP he can't, he is a "racial foreigner", and the laws of the land should be changed so he is not treated equally. There words, not mine.

[SussexWithLove]

how would I know? I've given you the phone number. I've given you the statement from them, that they have associate members.

Now, can the nationalist Amir Khan, you know that boxer who was very keen to waive the British flag when he won British medals, can he join the bnp. I'll answer for you, according to the BNP he can't, he is a "racial foreigner", and the laws of the land should be changed so he is not treated equally. There words, not mine.

That’s because the number is ZERO. How many full members who are not indigenous in the BNP? ZERO.

Amir Khan is British like I am but he's not ethnically British, so he can’t join. He can vote no problem.

He can join the Labour party if he wants, however he probably has better things to do than worry about politics. The Labour party looks after minorities very well. It’s a shame than don’t look after the indigenous people as well.

If he pays his taxes he has the same rights as everyone else does.

[Neo2012]

Amir Khan is British like I am but he's not ethnically British, so he can’t join. He can vote no problem.

Why? What problems would it cause?

[SussexWithLove]

Why? What problems would it cause?

I never said it would cause problems.

[Neo2012]

I never said it would cause problems.

so what if he won't cause problems, why not let British nationalists like Amir Khan join?

[SussexWithLove]

so what if he won't cause problems, why not let British nationalists like Amir Khan join?

because he's not ethnically British, i just told you that. Not sure why you're asking, i thought you knew.

[Neo2012]

because he's not ethnically British, i just told you that. Not sure why you're asking, i thought you knew.

So what? That doesn't explain WHY none ethnically brits cant join? Explian please.

[Neo2012]

Why would anybody of another ethnicity want to join the BNP?

because they are British nationalists, and the BNP claims to be an nationalist party, not a fascist party.

[SussexWithLove]

So what? That doesn't explain WHY none ethnically brits cant join? Explian please.

Because they´re not ethnically British. They can vote if they want.

[stevectaylor]

Thread closed as the poll appears completely bias.