BNP is a wasted vote: List of crap BNP councillors

[Neo2012]

The British National Party constantly claims that the other political parties don't care about the people they represent. Whether it's referring to MPs or local councillors, the BNP will state categorically that the people concerned are in the job only because they're corrupt and doing it for personal gain, or that they're useless and really have no idea what they're doing, to the detriment of their constituents.
Yet the very few BNP councillors that have managed to get themselves elected (just 55 out of around 22000) have an appalling record. Even the people who stood for the BNP and failed to win a seat seem to have been tarnished by their contact with the fascist party and, in some cases, crimes have been committed just to allow them to stand for available council seats

See details here. Lancaster Unity - Crap BNP Councillors

[Neo2012]

At least the list will be shorter now.

[MarkMuses]

When crooks run the establishment maybe it is a wasted vote but I admire the BNP for at least trying to give the people a choice.

[ryoden]

When crooks run the establishment maybe it is a wasted vote but I admire the BNP for at least trying to give the people a choice.

True, we do live in a democracy. I am sure (hopeful?) that some of the BNP members are not racially motivated bigots and actually believe in some of the non-racially motivated stances of the party (regardless of their workability) but they are unlikely to get anywhere unless they split off and start their own party.

[MarkMuses]

True, we do live in a democracy. I am sure (hopeful?) that some of the BNP members are not racially motivated bigots and actually believe in some of the non-racially motivated stances of the party (regardless of their workability) but they are unlikely to get anywhere unless they split off and start their own party.

Why do that? It would be just another UKIP.

I believe in the rights of the people of these islands not to be made a minority in their own lands. Caving in to being called a racist or a bigot for that is not an option to me. I don't believe it makes me any such thing. So BNP warts and all is the only option I have.

[Neo2012]

True, we do live in a democracy. I am sure (hopeful?) that some of the BNP members are not racially motivated bigots and actually believe in some of the non-racially motivated stances of the party (regardless of their workability) but they are unlikely to get anywhere unless they split off and start their own party.

They do http://www.youtube.com/user/bnpinfo#p/u/14/gMU-IaV9eJg

[Neo2012]

So BNP warts and all is the only option I have.

Yup, but that's because as you say, you are a racist.

[MarkMuses]

Yup, but that's because as you say, you are a racist.

Except I didn't but you post your filth regardless.

[MarkMuses]

They do http://www.youtube.com/user/bnpinfo#p/u/14/gMU-IaV9eJg

Oh yes Alby Walker. Amazing how he rose to be the BNP council leader in Stoke only to suddenly sound like a UAF spokesman just before the General Election. What a revelation it must have been Alby. So how much did UAF pay you?

[ryoden]

They do http://www.youtube.com/user/bnpinfo#p/u/14/gMU-IaV9eJg

Not quite accurate since as far as I can see he is standing as an independant.

[Neo2012]

Except I didn't but you post your filth regardless.

Sorry, are you saying your not a racist? You don't believe it is impossible for none whites, like some Muslims, to be as british culture as you and me?

[octopus]

No vote is wasted if you believe in what you are voting for. I suspect a lot of the voting public were guilty of voting for parties they don"t believe in; glad to say I am not one.

[ryoden]

Why do that? It would be just another UKIP.

I believe in the rights of the people of these islands not to be made a minority in their own lands. Caving in to being called a racist or a bigot for that is not an option to me. I don't believe it makes me any such thing. So BNP warts and all is the only option I have.

So do I and I do not agree with labours open door policy and I am fully in concord with the fact that you should be able to state that without being called a racist seeing as the definition of racist is as far as I am aware "the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" or the negative with regards to another race, which is far from "I dont want to live as a minority culture in my own country" its only natural when belief and cultures clash, you can't force them to mesh. You can only do that through education.

Cultures do not mix easily when thrown together and this leads to friction when mixed with other economic and social problems, that said I still couldnt endorse the BNP due to their core membership apparently still holding some very dubious views.

[Neo2012]

Not quite accurate since as far as I can see he is standing as an independant.

God! It's pedantic in here today.

Yes, your right "they do" everything in your post except for the last four words .

[Neo2012]

So do I and I do not agree with labours open door policy and I am fully in concord with the fact that you should be able to state that without being called a racist seeing as the definition of racist is as far as I am aware "the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" or the negative with regards to another race, which is far from "I dont want to live as a minority culture in my own country" its only natural when belief and cultures clash, you can't force them to mesh. You can only do that through education.

Cultures do not mix easily when thrown together and this leads to friction when mixed with other economic and social problems, that said I still couldnt endorse the BNP due to their core membership apparently still holding some very dubious views.

from the BNP constitution (from memory) " we are opposed to all forms of racial integration".

I don't think mark or the BNP agree with you "You can only do that through education.", that integration can be achieved through education.

You see I have every faith in the British culture, and accept that like the last 300 years, immigrants and all will take what is best and move forward together, regardless of skin colour, religion or sex.

[MarkMuses]

So do I and I do not agree with labours open door policy and I am fully in concord with the fact that you should be able to state that without being called a racist seeing as the definition of racist is as far as I am aware "the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race" or the negative with regards to another race, which is far from "I dont want to live as a minority culture in my own country" its only natural when belief and cultures clash, you can't force them to mesh. You can only do that through education.

Cultures do not mix easily when thrown together and this leads to friction when mixed with other economic and social problems, that said I still couldnt endorse the BNP due to their core membership apparently still holding some very dubious views.

Definitions vary across dictionaries of course but in every day usage racist seems to most commonly mean racial hatred.

I simply want to live among my own racial group as a general rule, not exclusively just generally and culture ties into that. People like Neo would not allow me to do advocate this because they don't believe in democracy and so I'd get called a Nazi or some other ********. Anything to make me out a monster.

Frankly I don't care any more. I know I'm not a race hater, and that's good enough for me.

[ryoden]

from the BNP constitution (from memory) " we are opposed to all forms of racial integration".

To be fair this is isolationist rather than racist as I understand the term. However I don't agree with it as it's an extreme stance, "controlled" racial integration almost always benefits society and can enrich both societies.

I don't think mark or the BNP agree with you "You can only do that through education.", that integration can be achieved through education.

You see I have every faith in the British culture, and accept that like the last 300 years, immigrants and all will take what is best and move forward together, regardless of skin colour, religion or sex.

They may not and that is their choice but unless it's backed up by evidence I am unlikely to change my statement. Deeply entrenched views and tribal nature is a part of most societies I believe (to a greater or lesser degree, person to person) we are brought up in a small family group and everyone outside is a potential threat, slowly that group grows, neighbours, work colleagues etc. Governments and religions tend to use these fears for various purposes, control etc and most of the media use it to to sell papers. If we taught children to be more analytical and to think for themselves, to use evidence over heresay then I think we would have a better society.

[Neo2012]

Definitions vary across dictionaries of course but in every day usage racist seems to most commonly mean racial hatred.

I simply want to live among my own racial group as a general rule, not exclusively just generally and culture ties into that. People like Neo would not allow me to do advocate this because they don't believe in democracy and so I'd get called a Nazi or some other ********. Anything to make me out a monster.

Frankly I don't care any more. I know I'm not a race hater, and that's good enough for me.

Youve just advocated apartied as a genral rule, not exclusively. Your not a Nazi. The BNP are neo-Nazi.

Now are you a racist, I don't know yet. Do you accept that integration can be achieved through education.

You see I have every faith in the British culture, and accept that like the last 300 years, immigrants and all will take what is best and move forward together, regardless of skin colour, religion or sex. Can you?

[Neo2012]

Governments and religions tend to use these fears for various purposes, control etc and most of the media use it to to sell papers. If we taught children to be more analytical and to think for themselves, to use evidence over heresay then I think we would have a better society.

Bingo! Couldn't agree with you more.

[MarkMuses]

Youve just advocated apartied as a genral rule, not exclusively. Your not a Nazi. The BNP are neo-Nazi.

Apartheid? Have you visited a major town or city lately? We HAVE apartheid thanks to your mates flooding this country with people who quite naturally tend to live amongst their own.

Now are you a racist, I don't know yet. Do you accept that integration can be achieved through education.

Oh thank you Doctor Neo Nihilist.

By education I take it you mean the kind of **** they pull in American schools (here now I should guess). Little sick games that ostracize any child not exhibiting multi-cult behviour, followed up with one-on-one sessions until they comply? That kind of 'education'?

You see I have every faith in the British culture, and accept that like the last 300 years, immigrants and all will take what is best and move forward together, regardless of skin colour, religion or sex. Can you?

I don't accept your premise. There is no comparison with the minor immigrations of the last 300 years and post-war mass immigration.

[Neo2012]

By education I take it you mean the kind of **** they pull in American schools (here now I should guess). Little sick games that ostracize any child not exhibiting multi-cult behviour, followed up with one-on-one sessions until they comply? That kind of 'education'?

No, I mean ie "Governments and religions tend to use these fears for various purposes, control etc and most of the media use it to to sell papers. If we taught children to be more analytical and to think for themselves, to use evidence over heresay then I think we would have a better society."

I don't accept your premise. There is no comparison with the minor immigrations of the last 300 years and post-war mass immigration.

The nature of immigration has changed. It is not as permanent as he used to be, many just coming for a few years, then returning.
We've always had mass immigration, but it has usually been outwards. All over the world, where our culture has been taken up. The vast majority of immigrants, have already been influenced by British culture, and there is no reason why they cannot become British. Socia peace through social justice.

[MarkMuses]

No, I mean ie "Governments and religions tend to use these fears for various purposes, control etc and most of the media use it to to sell papers. If we taught children to be more analytical and to think for themselves, to use evidence over heresay then I think we would have a better society."

I am in favour of free analytical thought for the reasons you give but when you encourage such a thing but rule out free analysis on contraversial subjects such as race you become the very monster you are trying to avert because children are then being subjected to a mindset with the illusion of freedom but only within it. A technique of mind control (brain washing).

The nature of immigration has changed. It is not as permanent as he used to be, many just coming for a few years, then returning.
We've always had mass immigration, but it has usually been outwards. All over the world, where our culture has been taken up. The vast majority of immigrants, have already been influenced by British culture, and there is no reason why they cannot become British. Socia peace through social justice.

We invaded them so they now have the right to invade us, that old line? Flawed thinking on multiple counts in my view. Can't be bothered to break it down again on a page that will be gathering dust soon enough.

[ryoden]

Definitions vary across dictionaries of course but in every day usage racist seems to most commonly mean racial hatred.

I simply want to live among my own racial group as a general rule, not exclusively just generally and culture ties into that. People like Neo would not allow me to do advocate this because they don't believe in democracy and so I'd get called a Nazi or some other ********. Anything to make me out a monster.

Frankly I don't care any more. I know I'm not a race hater, and that's good enough for me.

Well I guess racial hatred is just the extreme of racial superiority so that definition is fine. From what you have said I would not consider you to be a racist, equally by definition I would not class you as a Nazi either. By definition Neo-Nazism consists of seeking to revive Nazism or some variant thereof or the ideology of those movements, so I can't see that as a relevant term for your stance either.

From your forum title you define yourself partly as a nationalist and from the definition of that ideology you do seem to belong to that group seeing as that ideology often includes a belief that a particular ethnic group (in this case the indiginous culture) comes first (but does not include as a precept racial hatred).

I can see how this viewpoint can be seen as some as racist but that is due to a misunderstanding of the term itself and also that fact that WWII Germany was a combination of Nationalism/Facism/Nazism and that Nationalism can potentially lead onto thoughts of ethnocentric supremacy.

Racist is a convenient tag that people are far to happy to throw around and they really shouldn't as it's an emotive term for obvious historical reasons.

[MarkMuses]

Well I guess racial hatred is just the extreme of racial superiority so that definition is fine. From what you have said I would not consider you to be a racist, equally by definition I would not class you as a Nazi either. By definition Neo-Nazism consists of seeking to revive Nazism or some variant thereof or the ideology of those movements, so I can't see that as a relevant term for your stance either.

From your forum title you define yourself partly as a nationalist and from the definition of that ideology you do seem to belong to that group seeing as that ideology often includes a belief that a particular ethnic group (in this case the indiginous culture) comes first (but does not include as a precept racial hatred).

I can see how this viewpoint can be seen as some as racist but that is due to a misunderstanding of the term itself and also that fact that WWII Germany was a combination of Nationalism/Facism/Nazism and that Nationalism can potentially lead onto thoughts of ethnocentric supremacy.

Racist is a convenient tag that people are far to happy to throw around and they really shouldn't as it's an emotive term for obvious historical reasons.

Concepts of race, varying policies and attitudes relating to it pre-date and post-date Hitler. It was so called racist countries at the time that defeated Hitler. Even Stalin was prone to anti-semitism.

Yet Nazis and Hitler is all we hear about when race gets mentioned. The Soviet Union the biggest mass murdering state in history barely gets a mention for its actions in the media or Hollywood. We are instead drenched in the worst of all evils Nazi chic - the perfect bad guy, and groomed to look only to Nazism for the bogey man.

The victors write the history and how. (Quick note to Neo as you read this. Wind your neck in Hitler was a monster okay?).

What do we have today? Hmmm, seems war crimes are back in fashion. Start an illegal war, murder hundreds of thousands of civilians and get to trot the World stage welcomed with open arms. Former terrorists from Mandela to Sinn Fein, all sins buried.

By modern standards Hitler today could alsmost expect a Community Service Order and perhaps a taxpayer funded trip to go rock climbing or canoeing. Wasn't his fault, no he had ADHD, his parents didn't understand him bla bla.

Excuse the sarcasm but I think the double standards are getting ridiculous. I guess that's where post-Marxist nihilism takes us, into a logical oblivian. What a mess.

[Neo2012]

I am in favour of free analytical thought for the reasons you give but when you encourage such a thing but rule out free analysis on contraversial subjects such as race you become the very monster you are trying to avert because children are then being subjected to a mindset with the illusion of freedom but only within it. A technique of mind control (brain washing).

I'm happy for that.

We invaded them so they now have the right to invade us, that old line? Flawed thinking on multiple counts in my view. Can't be bothered to break it down again on a page that will be gathering dust soon enough.

Notb what I said. I was talking about how they shared culture, and so are somewhat culturally British.

[MarkMuses]

I'm happy for that.

Scary if you excuse that.

Notb what I said. I was talking about how they shared culture, and so are somewhat culturally British.

Some cultural integration has taken place with the host culture but the official line seems to be enrichment lies only with all things foreign hence the shocking fall in English for a start.

[Neo2012]

Him

Scary if you excuse that.

I was happy to agree with what you want. because; Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. Albert Einstein ...

Some cultural integration has taken place with the host culture but the official line seems to be enrichment lies only with all things foreign hence the shocking fall in English for a start.

Dont think that is right. Blair Cool Britania, Brown British jobs for British workers. The labour party has brought in more anti immigration/asylum legislation, than any other British political party.

[MarkMuses]

HimI was happy to agree with what you want. because; Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. Albert Einstein ...


Dont think that is right. Blair Cool Britania, Brown British jobs for British workers. The labour party has brought in more anti immigration/asylum legislation, than any other British political party.

British jobs for Britsh workers? Brown? How very dare you Neo! Almost all the jobs Labour created went to immigrants. Brown was exposed for that only a few weeks ago. GENERAL ELECTION 2010: So much for Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers' | Mail Online

You defend the indefensible. If the Left had been honest and asked the nation if they wanted to be destroyed fair enough, but they, didn't. Dirty tricks all the way. As to Einstein, that's rubbish. Democratic nationalism has been the best thing yet. It's dictatorships that are the issue.

[Neo2012]

British jobs for Britsh workers? Brown? How very dare you Neo! Almost all the jobs Labour created went to immigrants. Brown was exposed for that only a few weeks ago. GENERAL ELECTION 2010: So much for Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British workers' | Mail Online

You defend the indefensible. If the Left had been honest and asked the nation if they wanted to be destroyed fair enough, but they, didn't. Dirty tricks all the way. As to Einstein, that's rubbish. Democratic nationalism has been the best thing yet. It's dictatorships that are the issue.

ye, einstein an idiot. lol

totaly agree about democracy. i am a domcratic exctremist.

[joethfc]

No vote is wasted if you believe in what you are voting for. I suspect a lot of the voting public were guilty of voting for parties they don"t believe in; glad to say I am not one.

I do believe in that statement - everybody should vote positively regardless of party

[MarkMuses]

ye, einstein an idiot. lol

totaly agree about democracy. i am a domcratic exctremist.

Einstein was a German Jew escaping Nazi nationalist dictatorship so he came to democratic nationalist (so called racist) Britain to escape it! He was unlucky to have such a bad experience of nationalism. In fact neither Mussolini nor Franco were particularly anti-semitic either. You Commies love to bleat Stalin was not a true example of Communism, well back at ya then,

So I think that's a fair reflection not that fairness suits your mindset. And yes maybe Einstein was a bit thick, you can be a genuis in your field and barely be able to tie your shoe laces. I can't either so I must be a genius too. And don't nearly type "excrement" when describing yourself, it's not good for your self-image.

[uncon]

alternatively we can look at this another way.

The earlier results said that people wanted to talk about immigration which was becoming a problem. It became an issue that the main parties could not avoid. They voted overwhelmingly to let the big parties deal with it and a lot of potential BNP voters said...I just want to see a cap. I see that

[Graveland]

Mark Muses : some cracking posts, for me it boils down simply to this, do you believe in a world that is made up of distinct nations, or a world of indistinct people? The contradiction of global liberalism (which i take to be the ultimate aim of current liberals) without nation states is that eventually the demographics reflect the most prolific breeders. Advanced ideas and ideology are only stable in sustainable societies whose overall demographics reflect these ideals. Under current liberal ideology (in Britain) we will all be practising Muslims within a century.

[MarkMuses]

Mark Muses : some cracking posts, for me it boils down simply to this, do you believe in a world that is made up of distinct nations, or a world of indistinct people? The contradiction of global liberalism (which i take to be the ultimate aim of current liberals) without nation states is that eventually the demographics reflect the most prolific breeders. Advanced ideas and ideology are only stable in sustainable societies whose overall demographics reflect these ideals. Under current liberal ideology (in Britain) we will all be practising Muslims within a century.

Yep, and right across Europe too: Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent - Telegraph

[Neo2012]

Einstein was a German Jew escaping Nazi nationalist dictatorship so he came to democratic nationalist (so called racist) Britain to escape it! He was unlucky to have such a bad experience of nationalism. In fact neither Mussolini nor Franco were particularly anti-semitic either. You Commies love to bleat Stalin was not a true example of Communism, well back at ya then,

So I think that's a fair reflection not that fairness suits your mindset. And yes maybe Einstein was a bit thick, you can be a genuis in your field and barely be able to tie your shoe laces. I can't either so I must be a genius too. And don't nearly type "excrement" when describing yourself, it's not good for your self-image.

I don't think it was just Einstein. Everybody was wary of nationalism, after two world wars fought in the name of nationalism.

[Neo2012]

Yep, and right across Europe too: Muslim Europe: the demographic time bomb transforming our continent - Telegraph

Within a generation, the 'muslims' won't be muslims. Freedom and democracy is just too seductive. Even now, the vast majority I meet, are just like you and me. Well perhaps not you.

[MarkMuses]

I don't think it was just Einstein. Everybody was wary of nationalism, after two world wars fought in the name of nationalism.

Can you provide any kind of substantial source for that? Remember the Soviet Union was nationalist a fundamental split that saw Trotsky split. I think you are massaging history there.

[MarkMuses]

Within a generation, the 'muslims' won't be muslims. Freedom and democracy is just too seductive. Even now, the vast majority I meet, are just like you and me. Well perhaps not you.

One hell of a gamble. When it's just Islam vs Neo-Marxists left you and your former allies will need to look at each other afresh. My money is on Islam. The reason I say that is that it is the Left that have dumbed down society, and frankly they are already turning to Islam to get away from the broken society the Left have created. Well done.

[Neo2012]

Can you provide any kind of substantial source for that? Remember the Soviet Union was nationalist a fundamental split that saw Trotsky split. I think you are massaging history there.

lol
The library. Virtually all the literature after the First World War.
Ye, hitler stalin etc etc were nationalist's.

Going to start a thread mark.

[Neo2012]

One hell of a gamble. When it's just Islam vs Neo-Marxists left you and your former allies will need to look at each other afresh. My money is on Islam. The reason I say that is that it is the Left that have dumbed down society, and frankly they are already turning to Islam to get away from the broken society the Left have created. Well done.

lol yes those Neo-Marxists hordes like,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I can't really think of anybody. Who is it exactly you want to hang draw and quarter?

[MarkMuses]

Who is it exactly you want to hang draw and quarter?

Where did I write this? Have you run out of medication again?

[Graveland]

Within a generation, the 'muslims' won't be muslims. Freedom and democracy is just too seductive. Even now, the vast majority I meet, are just like you and me. Well perhaps not you.

Are you being serious or naive? Oh wait Liberalism is built on the naivety that all humans are born essentially good and that their environments and interactions with others is what 'cracks' them. If a generation of Muslims are being seduced by democracy then explain 3rd and 4th generation Muslims blowing up a section of London's underground.

[Neo2012]

Are you being serious or naive? Oh wait Liberalism is built on the naivety that all humans are born essentially good and that their environments and interactions with others is what 'cracks' them. If a generation of Muslims are being seduced by democracy then explain 3rd and 4th generation Muslims blowing up a section of London's underground.

Explain Neo Nazi's bnp supporters blowing up section's of London.

[Neo2012]

Where did I write this? Have you run out of medication again?

What I actually said was, lol yes those Neo-Marxists hordes like,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I can't really think of anybody. Who is it exactly you want to hang draw and quarter? Didn't think you would take me literally, I thought you had developed a sense of humour. oops.

OK lol yes those Neo-Marxists hordes like,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I can't really think of anybody. Who are the Neo-Marxists you talk about destroying Britain and taking it over?

[MarkMuses]

What I actually said was, lol yes those Neo-Marxists hordes like,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I can't really think of anybody. Who is it exactly you want to hang draw and quarter? Didn't think you would take me literally, I thought you had developed a sense of humour. oops.

OK lol yes those Neo-Marxists hordes like,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well I can't really think of anybody. Who are the Neo-Marxists you talk about destroying Britain and taking it over?

People like you Neo. You advocate Neo-Marxist dogma. So if the cap fits, wear it.

[Neo2012]

People like you Neo. You advocate Neo-Marxist dogma. So if the cap fits, wear it.

Who are these people like me? The Conservatives are in power now, not marxist's.

[MarkMuses]

Who are these people like me? The Conservatives are in power now, not marxist's.

Why did you drop the "Neo" Neo? I wrote Neo-Marxists. You know, the type that like to look at the world through the lens of Marxian Critical Theory like you. Everyone knows Communism failed. Firebrand Marxism is not voter friendly either, so Neo-Marxism addresses it. Mass immigration and globalisation helps Conservative fat cats get even richer, while at the same time destroys nations of peoples across Europe, and so pleases nihilistic people like you who think nations are wicked etc...

[Neo2012]

Why did you drop the "Neo" Neo? I wrote Neo-Marxists. You know, the type that like to look at the world through the lens of Marxian Critical Theory like you. Everyone knows Communism failed. Firebrand Marxism is not voter friendly either, so Neo-Marxism addresses it. Mass immigration and globalisation helps Conservative fat cats get even richer, while at the same time destroys nations of peoples across Europe, and so pleases nihilistic people like you who think nations are wicked etc...

That doesn't make any sense. Perhaps if I'd put questioned the other way round. Who isn't a neo Marxist. And in what sense are neo Marxist Marxists?

[Graveland]

Explain Neo Nazi's bnp supporters blowing up section's of London.

Answering a question with another question screams avoidance of the issue. Are you referring to the Brixton nail bomber here?

[octopus]

Within a generation, the 'muslims' won't be muslims. Freedom and democracy is just too seductive. Even now, the vast majority I meet, are just like you and me. Well perhaps not you.

Depends on the Muslims in question. However, with 9/11 and 7/7 in mind and a total of around 3,000 dead, that tells me we have a lot of unfriendly Muslims around. When you have faiths or cults that teach people to accept death without question in its name, we have to be suspicious.

Such people belong in the Middle-East, where that way of life may be acceptable; we are a civilised country, and it isn"t in the UK. If your concerned about fascists, look at Al -Qaeda.