Originally Posted by Tete123

A checklist for the new US president

Amnesty International is setting up a human rights challenge for the first 100 days of the next US president's term in office.
We are calling President Barack Obama to:
Close Guantánamo and end illegal detention

• Confirm that the USA will permanently close the detention facility at Guantánamo and set a relatively short deadline for the closure.

• End trials by military commission and the system of Combatant Status Review Tribunals and Administrative Review Boards.

• Issue an executive order ending any use of rendition, secret detention or prolonged incommunicado detention by or on behalf of the US authorities anywhere.

• Announce a plan to promptly charge Guantánamo detainees and send them for trial before US federal courts or to release them with full protection against further violations of their human rights, and ensure that the plan is adequately resourced.

• Revoke the 20 July 2007 Executive Order which authorized the continuation of the CIA's programme of secret detention and interrogation.

• Ensure Guantánamo detainees who would be at risk of serious human rights violations if returned to their country of origin are offered the opportunity to live in the USA, if they wish to do so, and work with other governments to ensure that other such detainees are offered protection.

• Revoke the 13 November 2001 Military Order on the Detention, Treatment, and Trial of Certain Non-Citizens in the War Against Terrorism.

• Commit the US administration not to arbitrarily deprive anyone of their liberty (including by denying or interfering with effective judicial review), and immediately end the US government's opposition to full habeas corpus hearings for detainees in Guantánamo and other similar situations.

Eradicate torture and other ill-treatment

• Issue an executive order that the USA will not, under any circumstances, resort to torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, as defined under international law.

• Commit to work with Congress to withdraw all reservations and limiting understandings relating to torture and other illtreatment attached to the USA's ratification of human rights treaties, including the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the UN Convention against Torture.

• Announce that the administration will not use any information obtained under torture or other ill-treatment in any proceedings, except against an alleged perpetrator of the abuse.

• Order the declassification of all legal opinions and other documents authorizing or approving interrogation techniques and detention conditions that discuss whether the techniques or conditions are consistent with the national or international prohibition of torture or other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

End impunity

• Ensure that criminal investigations into the programmes of rendition and secret detention operated by or on behalf of the US authorities are initiated.

• Make known the name, nationality, current whereabouts, status and circumstances of detention of all those who have been subject to rendition or held in the secret detention programme.

• Reject impunity for crimes under international law such as torture and other ill-treatment of detainees, and enforced disappearance.

• Announce that his administration will work to ensure that victims of human rights violations for which the US authorities may be responsible will have meaningful access to redress and remedy.

• Ensure that an independent commission of inquiry is established into all aspects of the USA's detention and interrogation practices in the 'war on terror'.

But whatever you do ,do not make such demands of anyone else,only the fat lazy racist cheeseburgerscoffing,biblebashing never having abortions evil christian americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!who deserve every bad thing that happened to them ever!!!!!!!!!This is the word of the Liblabcon/Alquaida alliance!!!!!!!Amen.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

But whatever you do ,do not make such demands of anyone else,only the fat lazy racist cheeseburgerscoffing,biblebashing never having abortions evil christian americans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!who deserve every bad thing that happened to them ever!!!!!!!!!This is the word of the Liblabcon/Alquaida alliance!!!!!!!Amen.

No, this is taken directly from Amnesty Internationals website and has nothing to do with the British political system.

I do not consider the American people to be any of the things you state and this contribution makes no such assertions. Who else could these demands be asked of?

What has cheeseburgers, bible bashing or anti-abortion laws got to do with any of the demands (requests) listed by Amnesty International?

Please point out where I said that the United States deserve everything that happens to them? I suspect you are referring to 9/11 - this is an easy route to take in any debate that questions American foreign policy. Rather than respond appropriately to the content you create this straw man argument and the thread degenerates - If you have nothing to say - say nothing!! Good old traditional advice which should be observed more often on this forum!!

Actually here is a better idea,the USA close borders,and look after only those in the US,withdraw all financial and food asistance to dirty forign nations allow all other nations to thrive free from US subsidy pull all troops back to the US to defent the US and allow stupid forign lands to fix their own **** ups.The Us will become self sufficient and self reliant and any forign land making demands that the US do things otherwise be ignored and have their subsidies withdrawn should be the way of the future!!!!!!!

The UK may well do best to follow a policy that matches this self suffificient honest and above crititicism policy of governance!!!!!No one will make claims of colonialism if the allegedly colonialist lands no longer have anything at all to do with these backward lazy forign spongers,give em nothing and take nothing from them,self sufficiency is the way of the future!!!!!No alleged unfair trade,thr US can grow their own coffee and tea and wheat and corn and barley etc.What can forign whiners offer the US?Oil?we have plenty and can easyly drill for it in alaska once forign imperialists stop bribing congress to allow only purchase of terrorist oil from the capital of terrorism,Saudi Arabia!!!!!!But this is of course only my opinion and because it dont fit with the EU and UN kill the west philosophy it is going to be declared racist and fascist and wrong.Whilst those who label my opinion such continue to find new ways of assaulting the USA by violent terrorism,propeganda and fiscal attacks!!!!!!!!!
Amnisty international are in fact an anti American communist organisation currently funded by Bin Ladins terror organisation,for now of course,nesessity makes for strange bed fellows!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Tete123

No, this is taken directly from Amnesty Internationals website and has nothing to do with the British political system.

I do not consider the American people to be any of the things you state and this contribution makes no such assertions. Who else could these demands be asked of?

What has cheeseburgers, bible bashing or anti-abortion laws got to do with any of the demands (requests) listed by Amnesty International?

Please point out where I said that the United States deserve everything that happens to them? I suspect you are referring to 9/11 - this is an easy route to take in any debate that questions American foreign policy. Rather than respond appropriately to the content you create this straw man argument and the thread degenerates - If you have nothing to say - say nothing!! Good old traditional advice which should be observed more often on this forum!!

Perhaps but lets be honest most anti american posts onnthis forum end up stating exactly these same statements so why would any in the US give them any heed,you (europeans)detest the american people,this has been obvious for the past 60 or 100 years,we in the US are used to this,but why do you demand that we fix every **** up you make withour money,the lives of american citizens,then when we do come to your assistance you complain about that too(the british being the most voiciferous in their complaints about the american led peacekeeping in Kosovo)Although it was in fact UK troops that led the invasion,but anyway we are america bashing,so lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story!!!!!!!!!
As for straw man argument,i guess this meens that you ,the communist BBC and all the combined parties of communist europe believe that only straw men ,women and children were murdered by the straw aeroplanes thet were flown into the straw buildings of the straw world straw trade centre?These straw people and their straw deaths mean nothing to anyone as they are only straw deaths and in fact compared with other more important issues(like a couple of golli***s in a shop in manchester)they are simply straw man arguments!!!!!!!
Do me a fovour though dont smoke near me i am after all a straw man and will cause a huge confligaration if ignited by your superior stone and flint opinions!

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Actually here is a better idea,the USA close borders,and look after only those in the US,withdraw all financial and food asistance to dirty forign nations allow all other nations to thrive free from US subsidy pull all troops back to the US to defent the US and allow stupid forign lands to fix their own **** ups.The Us will become self sufficient and self reliant and any forign land making demands that the US do things otherwise be ignored and have their subsidies withdrawn should be the way of the future!!!!!!!

The UK may well do best to follow a policy that matches this self suffificient honest and above crititicism policy of governance!!!!!No one will make claims of colonialism if the allegedly colonialist lands no longer have anything at all to do with these backward lazy forign spongers,give em nothing and take nothing from them,self sufficiency is the way of the future!!!!!No alleged unfair trade,thr US can grow their own coffee and tea and wheat and corn and barley etc.What can forign whiners offer the US?Oil?we have plenty and can easyly drill for it in alaska once forign imperialists stop bribing congress to allow only purchase of terrorist oil from the capital of terrorism,Saudi Arabia!!!!!!But this is of course only my opinion and because it dont fit with the EU and UN kill the west philosophy it is going to be declared racist and fascist and wrong.Whilst those who label my opinion such continue to find new ways of assaulting the USA by violent terrorism,propeganda and fiscal attacks!!!!!!!!!

Protectionist policy would have as much impact on the US economy as it would around the world. Again I am lost as to who you are placing the blame on here Pauli.. Who are the foreign imperialists bribing congress?

Why bring racisim and facism into this debate? - again you are defending a position that doesn't exist! When did I mention either of these concept and I would like to know how you manage to fit them into every debate?

Originally Posted by Tete123

Protectionist policy would have as much impact on the US economy as it would around the world. Again I am lost as to who you are placing the blame on here Pauli.. Who are the foreign imperialists bribing congress?

Why bring racisim and facism into this debate? - again you are defending a position that doesn't exist! When did I mention either of these concept and I would like to know how you manage to fit them into every debate?

It would have that effect but even then forigners would rise up and complain that the US was doing nothing to help.Of course if the US did anything to help it would also be attacked for being imperialist!!!!!!Damned if you do and damned if you dont!!!!My opinion is look after your own and if they damn you for it well show em a couple of fingers!!!!!!Im alright,cos im harder working than you,this is how america should respond to all lazy nations demanding assistance with their economies whilst their workforce works only a part time 35 to 40 hours a week whilst the US workforce works 90 to a hundred hours a week!!!!!
for racism and fascism look to OPEC and their attempts to controll the US and other free and civilised countries by manipulating the price of oil and bribing other nationg leadership to not explore known oilfields closer to home(alaska for example had billions of barrels of oil but the congress of the US is paid off to deny companies fron drilling there)but whatever you want to attack america and blame americans for all the worlds ills,i can do nothing to alleviate your prejudices,even logic,facts and proof are not enough to prevent this hatred of americans that is so prevailent in the EU,now that IS efficient use of propeganda,and we all know it is PRAVDA(truth)

http://www.teachablehearts.co.uk/com...s/reaction.gif

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Perhaps but lets be honest most anti american posts onnthis forum end up stating exactly these same statements so why would any in the US give them any heed,you (europeans)detest the american people,this has been obvious for the past 60 or 100 years,we in the US are used to this,but why do you demand that we fix every **** up you make withour money,the lives of american citizens,then when we do come to your assistance you complain about that too(the british being the most voiciferous in their complaints about the american led peacekeeping in Kosovo)Although it was in fact UK troops that led the invasion,but anyway we are america bashing,so lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story!!!!!!!!!
As for straw man argument,i guess this meens that you ,the communist BBC and all the combined parties of communist europe believe that only straw men ,women and children were murdered by the straw aeroplanes thet were flown into the straw buildings of the straw world straw trade centre?These straw people and their straw deaths mean nothing to anyone as they are only straw deaths and in fact compared with other more important issues(like a couple of golli***s in a shop in manchester)they are simply straw man arguments!!!!!!!
Do me a fovour though dont smoke near me i am after all a straw man and will cause a huge confligaration if ignited by your superior stone and flint opinions!

Surely by responding in this aggressive manner you are giving anti-American posts heed - The problem is Pauli, this isn't particularly Anti-American and it isn't necessarily my view. As I said this challenge to Obama was taken directly from Amnesty International - An obvious candidate for Socialist organisation of the year!?

What are you on about Pauli.. If you don't understand a concept (such as a straw man argument) I suggest you do a quick search before posting .. so not to make yourself look stupid. Nobody said that the victims of 9/11 were straw men did they? Europeans (Aren't you a European too??) Who the hell spoke of Kosovo - Me? I don't think so!!

Why don't you read up on politics Pauli.. You seem confused between Socialism, Nationalism, Fascism, Communism and Conservatism - Somehow managing to conflate all of them in to a tidy little package - completely unable to differentiate between them!! It's annoying.

Now are you actually going to respond to the initial post? If not I suggest you leave it to somebody more capable.

If Obama does everything asked of him by Amnesty then I for one will have very little left to say which is 'anti American'.

I dont really think many people in Europe are all that anti American (the Italians love them for example); but people have been wound up by Bush. Bush has acted like a bully and started fights in the middle east and called the French cowards for not wanting to help him in his crusade against RANDOM (well apart from the oil) middle East countries. No wonder many Europeans are a bit miffed with Bush. This could change now. We will have to see

Originally Posted by DeeperUndercover

Bush has acted like a bully and started fights in the middle east and called the French cowards for not wanting to help him in his crusade against RANDOM (well apart from the oil) middle East countries.

French cowardice is well-documented and began long before Bush took office.

ummm I would not call it cowardice. I would more call it protection of there own country. I think it was smart for France not to enter the middle east. Unlike stupid Australia and Britain who kiss Americas ass. In fact the strongest ones to come out of this conflict will be the french because tey will have more money to spend and still have a strong military.

This was reported in today's Times (11.11.08)

Guantanamo first to go as Bush agenda is torn up

Tim Reid Washington

Barack Obama will move swiftly to close Guantanamo Bay as soon as he takes office, his aides said yesterday, in a clear and early sign of how determined he is to break with President Bush.

Mr Obama is planning to ship dozens of terrorist suspects from the camp to face criminal trial in the US. It is a controversial move but one that demonstrates how abruptly he plans to change Washington in terms of policy, personnel and tone the moment he enters the Oval Office.

Barack Obama plans quick transfer of Guantanamo Bay suspects to US - Times Online

Encouraging signs from president elect Barrack Obama.

Originally Posted by FFYR

ummm I would not call it cowardice. I would more call it protection of there own country. In fact the strongest ones to come out of this conflict will be the french because tey will have more money to spend and still have a strong military.

#1-Yes, they're cowards
#2-Actually, the French are too cowardly to do even that. It has always been left up to other nations to protect France. The U.S. and Britain to be precise.
#3-More money for what. Wine? Cheese? Soap and deodorant maybe?
#4-Strong military? When's the last time France had a strong military? The only portion of the French military that deserves any respect is the Foreign Legion.......mainly because they don't allow Frenchmen in it.

Originally Posted by Tantal

#1-Yes, they're cowards
#2-Actually, the French are too cowardly to do even that. It has always been left up to other nations to protect France. The U.S. and Britain to be precise.
#3-More money for what. Wine? Cheese? Soap and deodorant maybe?
#4-Strong military? When's the last time France had a strong military? The only portion of the French military that deserves any respect is the Foreign Legion.......mainly because they don't allow Frenchmen in it.

Without the help of the French the US would have remained a British colony for a lot longer than it did.

How can a nation of people all be cowards ? What rubbish!!

In fact this notion (" foreign cowards ") is a disturbingly common occurance in my many debates with Americans. It would appear that too many of them ( Americans ) mistake common sense for cowardice.

For example , the Iraqi freedom fighters of today are called cowards by many Americans for fighting a far superior occupying military force with guerilla tactics.
That's not cowardice in my book , that's just common sense. And yet their is scant attention given to the military tactics of the superior occupying force with regards to whether or not those tactics are cowardly.
The use of phosphorous in Fallujah for example , the standard use of cluster munitions or shells containing depleted uranium, Cruise missiles , etc etc
In fact we are encouraged/taught to look in awe at the deployment of these , imo , cowardly weapons.
The visions of the Basra road out of Kuwait in the aftermath of the first gulf war will live we me till the day I die. Not because of their clearly intended mission of showing us all the tremendous power of US military technology , no , because of the utter cowardice of those who hid behind that technology in safety while they extinguished the lives of conscripts en masse.
You might argue that that too is common sense in a war situation and if I am consistant I will agree and I do.............. but maybe we just have differing definitions of the word coward or the context in which it is being used

3. Much stereotyping of the French....." soap ",,,,,,,,,"deodorant "........ so they smell and they are all cowards , eh ? Maybe they spend their extra money on socialized medicine................. so which nation is the real " sicko " here, the US or France ?

BTW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, did the " Freedom Fries " concept ever really take root or does the odd traitor still refer to them as French fries ?

Originally Posted by Tantal

#1-Yes, they're cowards
#2-Actually, the French are too cowardly to do even that. It has always been left up to other nations to protect France. The U.S. and Britain to be precise.
#3-More money for what. Wine? Cheese? Soap and deodorant maybe?
#4-Strong military? When's the last time France had a strong military? The only portion of the French military that deserves any respect is the Foreign Legion.......mainly because they don't allow Frenchmen in it.

This boarders on racism and is really not on Tantal.

The French gave the brits hell for 100 years. They had a very strong army and have been conquers in their time (not that I support this).

Also at least they had the bollox to get rid of their monarchy! Unlike the Brits who still worship a bunch of inbred numpties

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

This boarders on racism and is really not on Tantal.

The French gave the brits hell for 100 years. They had a very strong army and have been conquers in their time (not that I support this).

Also at least they had the bollox to get rid of their monarchy! Unlike the Brits who still worship a bunch of inbred numpties

It is racism MN................. no doubt about it. That's not an attempt to suppress Tantals views in anyway, it is an attempt to identify where they come from

And i agree with you on the monarchy too.................... also the French know how to strike.............. something else they could teach us Brits

I could be wrong but the appearance of the might mean Tantal's tongue was firmly in his cheek , but good to see joking about another nation is now classified as racism .... good grief

Is having the same world view as Homer Simpson really that bad !

Originally Posted by Albion 69

I could be wrong but the appearance of the might mean Tantal's tongue was firmly in his cheek , but good to see joking about another nation is now classified as racism .... good grief

Is having the same world view as Homer Simpson really that bad !

I said 'boarders on racism'. It is fine to mock them. I have no probs with this (although i would feel better if there were some french people here to defend themselves). However to call ALL french cowards is to generalise on the basis of race or nationality which does boarder on racism

Originally Posted by Albion 69

I could be wrong but the appearance of the might mean Tantal's tongue was firmly in his cheek , but good to see joking about another nation is now classified as racism .... good grief

He may well be joking , I think/hope he is , but his comments are racist.
According to the Oxford English Dictionary racism is defined as follows........
" racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another racial group or racial groups"

We can argue about the variance of other definitions but the essential element in the bulk of them will be what I have highlighted.......... and that is what the comments posted by Tantal amount to.

Now before this goes down the predictable road of PC gone mad Left/Right debate ,hear me out a little.

If you would have read my post properly you would have known that I specifically said that my reply was not meant to suppress the expression of racist sentiments ,whether they be made in jest or not , it doesn't matter.

The English , Irish , Scotsman jokes are racist............ but there's no need to have a seizure over the fact or seek to ban their usage.

Let's not mess around with definitions of words just because we have become so s**t scared to use them correctly.

Is having the same world view as Homer Simpson really that bad !

Apparently not for the masses

Originally Posted by Spartacus

If you would have read my post properly you would have known that I specifically said that my reply was not meant to suppress the expression of racist sentiments ,whether they be made in jest or not , it doesn't matter.

The English , Irish , Scotsman jokes are racist............ but there's no need to have a seizure over the fact or seek to ban their usage.

Let's not mess around with definitions of words just because we have become so s**t scared to use them correctly.

Apparently not for the masses

I did read your post carefully, it was very well constructed (as usual ) , it is often a tactic in a debate to put the boot in while claiming in the same sentence you are doing no such thing. Of course i exclude you from that criticism .... ( ) . Using the 'R' word is the Nuclear option best used as a last resort or it's real world meaning /use is de valued..... there are plenty of more appropriate targets on this forum .

And you want to give the masses more of a say !

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

This boarders on racism and is really not on Tantal.

My apologies. I wasn't aware that French was a race. Personally, I can't tell a Frenchman from an Englishman by outward appearances. I guess you just have to wait for the first gunshot and see who drops his rifle first and waves a white flag to discern between them.

Originally Posted by Albion 69

I did read your post carefully, it was very well constructed (as usual ) , it is often a tactic in a debate to put the boot in while claiming in the same sentence you are doing no such thing. Of course i exclude you from that criticism .... ( ) . Using the 'R' word is the Nuclear option best used as a last resort or it's real world meaning /use is de valued..... there are plenty of more appropriate targets on this forum .

I think you just struggle to trust socialists Albion

Maybe you are right about its usage.................... but he have other terms we can use for them ( appropriate targets ) also , racial hatred , racial supremacy etc. Anyway

My point was not to tag Tantal as a racist ( I never mentioned it originally , though I was aware of it ) my point was that the idea that the French all smell and are all cowards is patently false and has its roots in racism . My response was to MNs post, sorry if it came across wrong.

And you want to give the masses more of a say !

I would like to see the masses given many things Albion ,as you no doubt have picked up on. There is no reason to suppose that in the right environment, say a proper democracy , the majority of people wouldn't be able to form a reasonably solid consensus as to what is best for the running of society.

Amnisty International here is a check list from the USA
1/condemn the USA but say nothing about terrorists,whatever!!!
2/keep your reactionary communist noses out of what dosnt concern you!!!!!!
3/grow the heck up,and try to lay off the drugs for at least a day or two,then see reality for a change!!!!!



What a bunch of dimwits(Amnisty,Greenpeace and PETA,all of whom are supporters of terrorism and violence against innocents,usually babies and children)!!!!!!

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Amnisty International here is a check list from the USA
1/condemn the USA but say nothing about terrorists,whatever!!!
2/keep your reactionary communist noses out of what dosnt concern you!!!!!!
3/grow the heck up,and try to lay off the drugs for at least a day or two,then see reality for a change!!!!!



What a bunch of dimwits(Amnisty,Greenpeace and PETA,all of whom are supporters of terrorism and violence against innocents,usually babies and children)!!!!!!

Don't you think all things need balance Pauli - What is good without evil.. Rich without poor etc.

My view on these organisations are they play an important role in balancing opposing views. Your post seems like you don't feel anyone (countries, people or NGOs) have the right to hold the US to account for ANY of their actions in domestic or foreign policy?

I know you won't like it but...... do you have any evidence of Amnesty, Greenpeace or PETA supporting terrorism or violence?

Originally Posted by Tete123

Don't you think all things need balance Pauli - What is good without evil.. Rich without poor etc.

My view on these organisations are they play an important role in balancing opposing views. Your post seems like you don't feel anyone (countries, people or NGOs) have the right to hold the US to account for ANY of their actions in domestic or foreign policy?

I know you won't like it but...... do you have any evidence of Amnesty, Greenpeace or PETA supporting terrorism or violence?

MMMM yes,Amnist International spent years funding propeganda pressuring governments world wide to try to get the murderer and terrorist who 1/murdered kids
and 2/ordered the murder of kids
released from prison from his life sentance for murder and TERRORISMmthe same man who never once showed remorse for the deaths he caused or ordered or were comitted by those under his command(Nelson Mandella if the truth hadnt been so obvious,he is one of the biggest mass murderers of the 20th centuary after all !!!!!!Greenpeace UK have on several occasions attacked fast food outlets in the UK(Mc Donalds)Once a Bomb without a warning was detonated in a Mc Donalds in the Midlands in aroung 1989 0r 1990,plus an attach on several other branches involving hydrochloric acid being smeared (without warning)in a hydroreactive gel on windows of Mc Donalds outlets in several towns including Huddersfield again in or around 1989 causing severe injury to those evil corporate millionaires who clean Mc donalds premises worldwide(one was a student hoping to train as a surgeon,however the "humane Greenpeace didnt care about mere humans enought to refuse to paint this skin ,muscle and bone disolving agent onto the windows of MC Ds.Dozens injured,one potential Surgeon not able to become a surgeon as a result of damage caused by Greenpeace UK,how many lives destroyed by that one then?PETA activists have been well publicised for attacks against people who wear fur ETC.But my favorate one was (again in the mid to late 1980s a 9 month old daughter of a vet who wrote a report about conditions in a vivisection lab being blown up by Peta or its allies,turned up that the kid survived and that its dad advocated an end to vivisection,but to wait for the report wasnt good enough for there terrorists,blow up his baby,who cares about mere humans when animals are around)!!!!!

Originally Posted by pauli007001

MMMM yes,Amnist International spent years funding propeganda pressuring governments world wide to try to get the murderer and terrorist who 1/murdered kids
and 2/ordered the murder of kids
released from prison from his life sentance for murder and TERRORISMmthe same man who never once showed remorse for the deaths he caused or ordered or were comitted by those under his command(Nelson Mandella if the truth hadnt been so obvious,he is one of the biggest mass murderers of the 20th centuary after all !!!!!!Greenpeace UK have on several occasions attacked fast food outlets in the UK(Mc Donalds)Once a Bomb without a warning was detonated in a Mc Donalds in the Midlands in aroung 1989 0r 1990,plus an attach on several other branches involving hydrochloric acid being smeared (without warning)in a hydroreactive gel on windows of Mc Donalds outlets in several towns including Huddersfield again in or around 1989 causing severe injury to those evil corporate millionaires who clean Mc donalds premises worldwide(one was a student hoping to train as a surgeon,however the "humane Greenpeace didnt care about mere humans enought to refuse to paint this skin ,muscle and bone disolving agent onto the windows of MC Ds.Dozens injured,one potential Surgeon not able to become a surgeon as a result of damage caused by Greenpeace UK,how many lives destroyed by that one then?PETA activists have been well publicised for attacks against people who wear fur ETC.But my favorate one was (again in the mid to late 1980s a 9 month old daughter of a vet who wrote a report about conditions in a vivisection lab being blown up by Peta or its allies,turned up that the kid survived and that its dad advocated an end to vivisection,but to wait for the report wasnt good enough for there terrorists,blow up his baby,who cares about mere humans when animals are around)!!!!!

My apologies you meant violent activism.

Originally Posted by Tete123

My apologies you meant violent activism.

Oh so bombing campains for political gain are now just violent activism!!I will tell that to the families injured by PETA bombs and Greenpeace bombings and Chemical warfare attacing some of the poorest people in the UK(Mc Donalds workers,and customers for that matter).It is still terrorism,they terrorise people!!!!

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Oh so bombing campains for political gain are now just violent activism!!I will tell that to the families injured by PETA bombs and Greenpeace bombings and Chemical warfare attacing some of the poorest people in the UK(Mc Donalds workers,and customers for that matter).It is still terrorism,they terrorise people!!!!

Every organisation has militant activists of various levels. Some turn to violence. I don't support Terrorism by I do accept that sometimes the ends justify the means. Maybe not in the cases of PETA and Greenpeace in the examples you cite (no links as evidence - tut tut) - but possibly in the case of Mandela and the ANC's fight against Aparthied in South Africa.