Originally Posted by uncon

Faking addresses, showing up at Sunday service regardless of your religious views, joining the right Christian clubs etc and making a donation to the church

This is what parents are doing to give their kids 'the best start' in Religion based schools.

Which serves a fine lesson in lying, cheating and hypocrisy to one's children. I understand the want to give their kids 'the best start' but is it worth it at that price? I wonder how many of those parents actually are 'involved' in their kids education beyond that effort. IMHO one of the greatest problems in education today is parents, i.e. a lack of interest beyond the superficial and not taking an active role.

i had a start in a CofE school and i got drunk at my own christening thirty two years ago

Darling, you were always a barrel of fun weren't you.

I am old fashioned and in fairness we are not in an inner city comprehensive (only banks get that sort of funding). My Children will go through the education system with friends within skateboarding distance. They will learn about how to read well,apply themselves, and get on well with others.

Most of my "growing up" was like that in a neighborhood filled with kids. I wouldn't trade those times for anything. Those socialization skills learned thusly are an important part of a child's education. I have met several kids who are "home schooled", most are well behaved and appear bright but most are severly lacking in social skills. It's a pity. My kids also grew up in a similar environment to mine, they are not only very bright ( a little bragging here), they are also in posession of social skills needed for a sucessful life. The aims, for your kids, that you outline are what matters and usually result in a well rounded person.

What we do deserve is less tests for both teacher and pupil....if you can't trust that relationship and their judgement than no amount of churchgoing or tests will make it better

Not sure what you mean by less tests for teachers. I have observed, on several occassions, teachers that definitely needed subject matter testing which I doubt that they could pass, though certified. In the US, at least, in addition to parental non-involvment, another great problem is teacher's unions. They hold too much power. Rarely will one find a teacher's union that thinks teacher testing is a good idea. I can't help but wonder why. Could it be that their only interest is in protecting teachers, whether or not they deserve that protection? Both my Daughter-in-Law and Sister-in-Law are teachers in our public school systems. Both are against teacher's unions and for teacher testing. They see teacher shortcomings from inside the system and are intellectually honest.

Whatever we do is all just for kids after marriage... parents forget their worries and all they can remember and all they do is just children....

Originally Posted by Mary

Whatever we do is all just for kids after marriage... parents forget their worries and all they can remember and all they do is just children....

Very true Mary, they dont realise, or appreciate it though till its their turn

Originally Posted by uncon

Faking addresses, showing up at Sunday service regardless of your religious views, joining the right Christian clubs etc and making a donation to the church


This is what parents are doing to give their kids 'the best start' in Religion based schools. i had a start in a CofE school and i got drunk at my own christening thirty two years ago

I am old fashioned and in fairness we are not in an inner city comprehensive (only banks get that sort of funding). My Children will go through the education system with friends within skateboarding distance. They will learn about how to read well,apply themselves, and get on well with others.

I am actually friends with the local vicar who knows that I am an agnostic...if I asked then I might get the brats into a church school.....It is more power than they deserve as servants or desire.

It is all getting ridiculous

What we do deserve is less tests for both teacher and pupil....if you can't trust that relationship and their judgement than no amount of churchgoing or tests will make it better

What we really do deserve is a state education system that we can all be proud of, for every school in the country, not just a few.

We've had 12 years of "education, education, education" and it hasn't done much, has it?

Originally Posted by Barry

What we really do deserve is a state education system that we can all be proud of, for every school in the country, not just a few.

We've had 12 years of "education, education, education" and it hasn't done much, has it?

Having lived with a Head Teacher for a number of years, thus seeing and hearing many of the inside stories about education, and having been in a position where I've seen the deterioration in the quality of many job applicants, even university graduates, over the years, I have to agree with you entirely. If anything, education, or the final results of it, has gone backwards, not forwards.

Originally Posted by Midas

Having lived with a Head Teacher for a number of years, thus seeing and hearing many of the inside stories about education, and having been in a position where I've seen the deterioration in the quality of many job applicants, even university graduates, over the years, I have to agree with you entirely. If anything, education, or the final results of it, has gone backwards, not forwards.

I've said this for years... Yet I get opposed?

Originally Posted by Midas

Having lived with a Head Teacher for a number of years, thus seeing and hearing many of the inside stories about education, and having been in a position where I've seen the deterioration in the quality of many job applicants, even university graduates, over the years, I have to agree with you entirely. If anything, education, or the final results of it, has gone backwards, not forwards.

When I did my stint at the local shop, one of the workers is training for a degree in teaching because she was inspired by her primary school teacher (a teacher that has taught both my brats too and I thought was wonderful, kind and disciplinarian). That teacher is leaving now to do something else out of sheer frustration - she has qualified as a garden designer and earned a place at Kew. Four other teachers have left in the last year and none of them are teaching now.

Originally Posted by uncon

When I did my stint at the local shop, one of the workers is training for a degree in teaching because she was inspired by her primary school teacher (a teacher that has taught both my brats too and I thought was wonderful, kind and disciplinarian). That teacher is leaving now to do something else out of sheer frustration - she has qualified as a garden designer and earned a place at Kew. Four other teachers have left in the last year and none of them are teaching now.

I'm not surprised in the slightest. Overwork, the seemingly inexorable spread of bureaucracy, politically inspired 'inclusion', moving targets, lack of funding and the frustration of not being able to discipline children properly all add up to teachers leaving the profession in their droves, apparently at a considerably higher rate than the official government figures show

Education of our children should be the absolute top priority - which is one of the reasons I'm a great believer in there being private schools - yet over the last decade or so, this government in particular has done nothing other than talk weasel words on the subject. Shame on them!

Originally Posted by Barry

We've had 12 years of "education, education, education" and it hasn't done much, has it?

Actually one of the very few things I would say NuLab got just about right was their radical emphasis on very early education through play and support of the family environment, with the introduction of sure start and children's centres. My son's nursery teacher said that the difference within half a few class years of children from the same family was sometimes amazing just from the same parent (normally singular) being encouraged to set routines and read with the child etc.

State education is a post code lottery. There are truly outstanding primary and secondary schools in some areas, and in other areas schools which frankly should be closed down and the 'management' of the school dismissed. Unfortunately I live in the latter type of area. You can either 'duck and dive' or if you prefer 'lie and cheat' to get your child a decent education, or opt out altogether if you are fortunate enough to be able to afford to, or are willing to compromise other areas of your life style, or you accept the mediocrity on offer.

I make absolutely no apology for doing the very best that I could for my son, and sent him to a highly regarded prep school, where they had male teachers as role models and played rugby and other competitive, contact sports, rather than only female teachers and no sport, and precious little exercise at all which was the position in the local primary school. He is now studying for his A levels at an outstanding public school and benefiting from being taught by some truly gifted teachers, whilst gaining excellent experience from the many non-academic aspects of the school curriculum.

I truly wish that state education could, as a norm rather than as an exception, strive to meet some of the standards offered by the private sector. However before doing so, teachers will have to be far more accountable for their performance in the classroom and educational management more competent in running their schools. I do of course accept that there are considerable cost implications, but if private schools operated as inefficiently as many state schools they would not be able to survive.