Originally Posted by CAGAN

Listening on the radio a few days ago that each building in South Africa that has the assistants of a certain tribe requires it's blessing by the slaughter of a cow. OK, although a vegi myself I can come to terms with the fact that the majority of the world want to eat meat, however this ritual defies all humanity. The cow in question has to be tortured to a point it can no longer take any more pain and then, and only then, will the leader of the savages authorise it's slaughter.

The white South African presenter on talksport justified this action on grounds of tradition. So for example, the practice of female circumcision is OK based on tribal tradition (I think not). The World has meant to have moved on and I would like to think that civilised countries would like to make a stand against this most horrific and disgusting crimes against animals !!

It's their culture and tradition. Let them do as they please. Just like Britain is our culture and so on. Just like everyone leaves us alone (cough)!

Originally Posted by CAGAN

Listening on the radio a few days ago that each building in South Africa that has the assistants of a certain tribe requires it's blessing by the slaughter of a cow. OK, although a vegi myself I can come to terms with the fact that the majority of the world want to eat meat, however this ritual defies all humanity. The cow in question has to be tortured to a point it can no longer take any more pain and then, and only then, will the leader of the savages authorise it's slaughter.

The white South African presenter on talksport justified this action on grounds of tradition. So for example, the practice of female circumcision is OK based on tribal tradition (I think not). The World has meant to have moved on and I would like to think that civilised countries would like to make a stand against this most horrific and disgusting crimes against animals !!

Hi,

the cermony of Gingindelovu is both scarey and spectacular and I can not remember if it is every 5 years, 7 years or 11 years! I do remember with several 1,000 Zulus drawn up in Impis in full war costume I felt vaguely awed!! I had the privilege of being one of about 10 caucasians present as the Sangomas whirled and chanted, the warriors ToiToi in a rythm of several 1,000 stamping on the ground as the women ululated - wonderful privillege.

A prize bull selected has been hand fed and pampered for several years and is led to the Paramount Chief for his inspection and then slaughtered and a huge feast commences.

It is foolish to speak of barbarism in this one incident as Spaniards chuck goats and donkeys out of Church towers to suit some bizare christian rituals and the bulls run through the streets of Pamplona skidding and snorting, falling and belowing in fear - I ran the bulls over 40 years ago - another privilege.

I've cut enough tail hair for a bracelet from a bull elephant all just customs and rituals in the great right of passage!

I know of no ceremony that tortures any animal for pleasure - it would seem mankind practices that against each other.

If you want to halt cruelty put Blair on trial for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity and cease the senseless failure in Afghanistan!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

the cermony of Gingindelovu is both scarey and spectacular and I can not remember if it is every 5 years, 7 years or 11 years! I do remember with several 1,000 Zulus drawn up in Impis in full war costume I felt vaguely awed!! I had the privilege of being one of about 10 caucasians present as the Sangomas whirled and chanted, the warriors ToiToi in a rythm of several 1,000 stamping on the ground as the women ululated - wonderful privillege.

A prize bull selected has been hand fed and pampered for several years and is led to the Paramount Chief for his inspection and then slaughtered and a huge feast commences.

It is foolish to speak of barbarism in this one incident as Spaniards chuck goats and donkeys out of Church towers to suit some bizare christian rituals and the bulls run through the streets of Pamplona skidding and snorting, falling and belowing in fear - I ran the bulls over 40 years ago - another privilege.

I've cut enough tail hair for a bracelet from a bull elephant all just customs and rituals in the great right of passage!

I know of no ceremony that tortures any animal for pleasure - it would seem mankind practices that against each other.

If you want to halt cruelty put Blair on trial for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity and cease the senseless failure in Afghanistan!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

I can assure you of what I heard, and the creature in question is tortured. Your Afghanistan example is a poor one. Soldiers choose to join the army and our Country has chosen to go to war, as far as the Afghans are concerned, they are pretty much mindless savages and deserve what they get. Oh, and I don't agree with the war either. These poor creatures have done NOTHING to deserve torture and if they have to be bred and slaughtered for meat, as a specie that invented the word "humane" let's practice it. Using traditions and customs as an excuse for cruelty doesn't stick with me or anyone with a heart. As far as the Spanish are concerned, I wouldn't pi55 on one if he was on fire !!

Originally Posted by CAGAN

I can assure you of what I heard, and the creature in question is tortured. Your Afghanistan example is a poor one. Soldiers choose to join the army and our Country has chosen to go to war, as far as the Afghans are concerned, they are pretty much mindless savages and deserve what they get. Oh, and I don't agree with the war either. These poor creatures have done NOTHING to deserve torture and if they have to be bred and slaughtered for meat, as a specie that invented the word "humane" let's practice it. Using traditions and customs as an excuse for cruelty doesn't stick with me or anyone with a heart. As far as the Spanish are concerned, I wouldn't pi55 on one if he was on fire !!

I was in total agreement until I got to your urinating on Spaniards. You talk about humain?
Good thing I don't believe you really would turn a blind eye to anothers tourment.

Originally Posted by CAGAN

Listening on the radio a few days ago that each building in South Africa that has the assistants of a certain tribe requires it's blessing by the slaughter of a cow. OK, although a vegi myself I can come to terms with the fact that the majority of the world want to eat meat, however this ritual defies all humanity. The cow in question has to be tortured to a point it can no longer take any more pain and then, and only then, will the leader of the savages authorise it's slaughter.

The white South African presenter on talksport justified this action on grounds of tradition. So for example, the practice of female circumcision is OK based on tribal tradition (I think not). The World has meant to have moved on and I would like to think that civilised countries would like to make a stand against this most horrific and disgusting crimes against animals !!

Like you say, such people are savages - but it"s their country, so I think we should leave them alone, it"s none of our business. If however, they try those sicking rituals in the UK - KICK THEM BACK TO THE JUNGLE WHERE THEY BELONG! Despite what Liberal thinking people tell us, everybody is not equal, unfortuately, as this kind of ritual tells us.

Originally Posted by octopus

everybody is not equal, unfortuately, as this kind of ritual tells us.

Not entirely sure what you meant by that. If you mean on the pecking order or social order, then I agree. Sad, hard, but also true.
But irregardless of culture or country, I believe everyone has a right to life as much as the next person. Provided they are of no harm to others (don't think I change my mind on capital punishment).
You are quite right, we have no right to impose our morals and beliefs of other countries practicing what they do. I personally hate such acts of senseless torment. But they see it differently to us.
I only wish that our ways would have been held with some respect by our governments.

Originally Posted by British

Not entirely sure what you meant by that. If you mean on the pecking order or social order, then I agree. Sad, hard, but also true.
But irregardless of culture or country, I believe everyone has a right to life as much as the next person. Provided they are of no harm to others (don't think I change my mind on capital punishment).
You are quite right, we have no right to impose our morals and beliefs of other countries practicing what they do. I personally hate such acts of senseless torment. But they see it differently to us.
I only wish that our ways would have been held with some respect by our governments.

What I mean is that I think you cannot expect a tribal community in rural South Africa, to have the same values towards people, and indeed, animals as we in western europe, do in the main. True, we have hunting; and I am against that, and that does not compare to this kind of barbaric ritual. As for female circumcision, that says it all. I don"t believe it is matter of the colour of their skin, more their way of life, and envrionment. These people, whether they are black, white, yellow or red Indians, if they accept this way of life as acceptable, have no place in a civilised country - so as long as they stay in their own envrionment, fine.

No word of a lie... I never even gave colour a thought. Some bloody racist I make!

You are indeed right, Octopus (what a weird name to type).
It is barbaric. But only in our western way of thinking. It's obviously significant to them. Past down through tradition. And as such, it's a practice that ought to be left to them to make a choice to leave it or not.
Having said that, I couldn't turn a blind eye to a girl being abused in such a horrific way. I would most likely lose my temper and intervene

Originally Posted by British

No word of a lie... I never even gave colour a thought. Some bloody racist I make!

You are indeed right, Octopus (what a weird name to type).
It is barbaric. But only in our western way of thinking. It's obviously significant to them. Past down through tradition. And as such, it's a practice that ought to be left to them to make a choice to leave it or not.
Having said that, I couldn't turn a blind eye to a girl being abused in such a horrific way. I would most likely lose my temper and intervene

I won"t tell you why I got the name octopus - my partner gave it to me many years ago.

Originally Posted by octopus

I won"t tell you why I got the name octopus - my partner gave it to me many years ago.

I said it on this forum only this morning. Some things are best left unspoken!

I cant believe people are actually talking about this, as these are uneducated African tribes people who are a lot more primative in their culture, society and life as a whole to us.

There are more developed countries that carry out much more barbaric acts that I feel deserve more attention.

Originally Posted by Patriot1

I cant believe people are actually talking about this, as these are uneducated African tribes people who are a lot more primative in their culture, society and life as a whole to us.

I quite agree on that one.

Originally Posted by Patriot1

there are more developed countries are carry out much more barbaric acts that I feel deserve more attention.

Who are those countrys you claim to carry out more barbaric acts,
Good thread to start if it bothers you that much?

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

the cermony of Gingindelovu is both scarey and spectacular and I can not remember if it is every 5 years, 7 years or 11 years! I do remember with several 1,000 Zulus drawn up in Impis in full war costume I felt vaguely awed!! I had the privilege of being one of about 10 caucasians present as the Sangomas whirled and chanted, the warriors ToiToi in a rythm of several 1,000 stamping on the ground as the women ululated - wonderful privillege.

A prize bull selected has been hand fed and pampered for several years and is led to the Paramount Chief for his inspection and then slaughtered and a huge feast commences.

It is foolish to speak of barbarism in this one incident as Spaniards chuck goats and donkeys out of Church towers to suit some bizare christian rituals and the bulls run through the streets of Pamplona skidding and snorting, falling and belowing in fear - I ran the bulls over 40 years ago - another privilege.

I've cut enough tail hair for a bracelet from a bull elephant all just customs and rituals in the great right of passage!

I know of no ceremony that tortures any animal for pleasure - it would seem mankind practices that against each other.

If you want to halt cruelty put Blair on trial for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity and cease the senseless failure in Afghanistan!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

The whole Labour goverment should be put on trial.

Originally Posted by fubar

I quite agree on that one.

Who are those countrys you claim to carry out more barbaric acts,
Good thread to start if it bothers you that much?

China seems to be leading the way in inhumane acts.

Bear bile farming.

The Unbearable Trade in Bear Parts and Bile | The Humane Society of the United States

Aborting disabled human children.

YouTube - Shameful Treatment Of China's Disabled Exposed

Those are just two that came to mind, Im sure there are a lot more too.

Do you think they are worth starting a thread?

Originally Posted by Patriot1

China seems to be leading the way in inhumane acts.

Bear bile farming.

The Unbearable Trade in Bear Parts and Bile | The Humane Society of the United States

yes all very sad.

Originally Posted by Patriot1

Aborting disabled human children.

YouTube - Shameful Treatment Of China's Disabled Exposed

Very sad indeed it's very difficult to judge another culture as we do after all we do things that are equally weird in their eyes.Theirs little we can do as individuals.the only thing we can do is apply pressure through diplomatic means but i don't think we can hope for much improvement any time soon their more likely to tell us where to get of than listen to us any more.

Equally you have to understand that children with disabilities are a big burden to the Chinese, as i think you will find there more likely to be born to the very poor because of their diet, they have trouble enough living themselves yet alone bringing up a disabled child.

Just don't judge them to harshly all we can do is try to give them options but it will take them a long time. In the meantime would it not be better to concentrate on problems nearer to home and set an example to them by looking after our own "we have enough problems of our own don't you think"?

Originally Posted by Patriot

Do you think they are worth starting a thread

give it a go and see what response you get, thats all you can do and good luck.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

the cermony of Gingindelovu is both scarey and spectacular and I can not remember if it is every 5 years, 7 years or 11 years! I do remember with several 1,000 Zulus drawn up in Impis in full war costume I felt vaguely awed!! I had the privilege of being one of about 10 caucasians present as the Sangomas whirled and chanted, the warriors ToiToi in a rythm of several 1,000 stamping on the ground as the women ululated - wonderful privillege.

A prize bull selected has been hand fed and pampered for several years and is led to the Paramount Chief for his inspection and then slaughtered and a huge feast commences.

It is foolish to speak of barbarism in this one incident as Spaniards chuck goats and donkeys out of Church towers to suit some bizare christian rituals and the bulls run through the streets of Pamplona skidding and snorting, falling and belowing in fear - I ran the bulls over 40 years ago - another privilege.

I've cut enough tail hair for a bracelet from a bull elephant all just customs and rituals in the great right of passage!

I know of no ceremony that tortures any animal for pleasure - it would seem mankind practices that against each other.

If you want to halt cruelty put Blair on trial for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity and cease the senseless failure in Afghanistan!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

WOOWWW!

Youve done EVERYTHING havent you?

You are my HERO!

Can I have a picture to put on my wall?

Originally Posted by Tacitus

WOOWWW!

Youve done EVERYTHING havent you?

You are my HERO!

Can I have a picture to put on my wall?

Hi,

life is all too short - cram as much as you can into it.

The more you do the more you can share.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

life is all too short - cram as much as you can into it.

The more you do the more you can share.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

The more you catch the more you can share!
eg;h1n1, syphillis, herpes and bull****!!!

OK, OK, can we please get this back on topic! In case everyone has forgotten, that was about the slaughtering of animals in tribal rituals.

Originally Posted by fubar

Who are those countrys you claim to carry out more barbaric acts,
Good thread to start if it bothers you that much?

What about the acceptance of the Jewish Barbarism in relation to genital mutilation of new born males?

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

What about the acceptance of the Jewish Barbarism in relation to genital mutilation of new born males?

"Time to start a new thread i think" as i know so little about the mutilation of small children you could start a new tread considering you know so much.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

What about the acceptance of the Jewish Barbarism in relation to genital mutilation of new born males?

This occurs in Islam and probably a lot more cultures too.

But I think thats new thread material.

As for this thread, I disagree with the way they treat the animal but theres not a lot we can do.

Sticking with Africa, what about their disgraceful beliefs in witches and the treatment in children as young as 1 who they believe to be witches?

I guess Africa is just a lot further behind the rest in the world, culturally and socially.

Patriot1, I have thanked you BASICALLY.

BUT MY family, my entire Mothers side (Females) were Shamans. Now THAT can also be called "Witches", but even THERE there is a difference between North and South.

My Great Grandmother, for exaple, when a person came to her with a lump in the breast, would give the woman a slap around the head and tell her to "Go to the bloody hospital"

Do not confuse "witch", or more correctly shaman, with "bad".

EVERY proffession, and EVERY religion has its charlettans.

Originally Posted by Tacitus

Patriot1, I have thanked you BASICALLY.

BUT MY family, my entire Mothers side (Females) were Shamans. Now THAT can also be called "Witches", but even THERE there is a difference between North and South.

My Great Grandmother, for exaple, when a person came to her with a lump in the brest, would give the woman a slap around the head and tell her to "Go to the bloody hospital"

Do not confuse "witch", or more correctly shaman, with "bad".

EVERY proffession, and EVERY religion has its charlettans.

I completely understand that in many african cultures, spiritual or religous leaders are important. This isnt the issue though.

Its actually in Christian areas of Nigeria where adults are brainwashed into thinking children are to blame for natural disasters, deaths and famine etc.

They are branded as "witches", not witchdoctors, and their treatment is very bad. Often beatings and not being fed, usually ending up with the child being expelled from the family.

Channel 4 has made several documentaries on the matter.

Dispatches - Saving Africa's Witch Children - Channel 4
Channel 4 returns to Africa's witch children - Developing World Stories - Tom Parry - Mirror.co.uk

Originally Posted by Patriot1

Its actually in Christian areas of Nigeria where adults are brainwashed into thinking children are to blame for natural disasters, deaths and famine etc.

They are branded as "witches", not witchdoctors, and their treatment is very bad. Often beatings and not being fed, usually ending up with the child being expelled from the family.

Aha. Yes. These are the charletans I was talking of. But what is an Evangelical deep South Mamas apple pie Southern boy preacher, with a credit card payment number on the ticker tape, on U.S T.V if not a charletan?

EVERY religion/Political idea/bloody BOWLING club has them.

BUT, in Africa, they are playing eith lives. And THAT is a HEL of a difference. I agree with you.

The second. Shamans and witch doctors are not neccessarily the same thing.

One deals with spirit. One deals with health. BOTH deal with herbs.

Hmm. A witch doctor is PURELY earth based. As you woulöd perhaps say "down to earth". A SHAMAN, however, is the drums and smoke, and dancing, and use of Thornapple, and fly agaric, etc.

BOTH are equaly adept at herbal cures. But they do not go the same way about it.

DAMN, there are whole LIBRARYS written on this. To try and put it simply is impossible. Hopefully I have done a bit to clear the whole thing up...

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

the cermony of Gingindelovu is both scarey and spectacular and I can not remember if it is every 5 years, 7 years or 11 years! I do remember with several 1,000 Zulus drawn up in Impis in full war costume I felt vaguely awed!! I had the privilege of being one of about 10 caucasians present as the Sangomas whirled and chanted, the warriors ToiToi in a rythm of several 1,000 stamping on the ground as the women ululated - wonderful privillege.

A prize bull selected has been hand fed and pampered for several years and is led to the Paramount Chief for his inspection and then slaughtered and a huge feast commences.

It is foolish to speak of barbarism in this one incident as Spaniards chuck goats and donkeys out of Church towers to suit some bizare christian rituals and the bulls run through the streets of Pamplona skidding and snorting, falling and belowing in fear - I ran the bulls over 40 years ago - another privilege.

I've cut enough tail hair for a bracelet from a bull elephant all just customs and rituals in the great right of passage!

I know of no ceremony that tortures any animal for pleasure - it would seem mankind practices that against each other.

If you want to halt cruelty put Blair on trial for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity and cease the senseless failure in Afghanistan!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

It is not where you come from that makes you "barbaric", but your actions. If the Spanish do simliar things as well, then they need to clean up their act.

Originally Posted by octopus

Like you say, such people are savages - but it"s their country, so I think we should leave them alone, it"s none of our business. If however, they try those sicking rituals in the UK - KICK THEM BACK TO THE JUNGLE WHERE THEY BELONG! Despite what Liberal thinking people tell us, everybody is not equal, unfortuately, as this kind of ritual tells us.

If they were doing similar things to babies would you say the same thing ?