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Reply With QuoteI thought they'd just use the eu flag?
9Likes This is a discussion on Confederation of European States within the Coffee Room forums, part of the The House of Commons category; Okay, Many years have passed and the European Union has changed it name again as more European states have joined, ...
Conservative Member
Okay,
Many years have passed and the European Union has changed it name again as more European states have joined, and as the constitutional structure of the Union has been altered.
The Confederation of European States is the starting point of what they call the great federalisation of Europe. The major issues of economic matters, foreign policy [etc] are handed to the top levels of the European government, with a strong local council based system for education and health [etc].
However, they can never agree over the damn flag or song. So, what flag is the Confederation of European States going to have?
Please post designs below:
The Fascist
I thought they'd just use the eu flag?
Conservative Member
lol you funny man.
I just created a situation... its made up. Hence why I used the name Confederation of European States, not European Union.
I created a futuristic situation. The idea is just to make a flag up.
Its just a bit of fun.
Christian Zionist
http://static.open.salon.com/files/n...1261063785.jpg
This might be appropriate considering what the European Community has done to democracy.
Jesus said in John 3:17, "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
I think everyone will be happy with my design:
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y10...ann/EUflag.png
Chancellor
Glad to see you included the hammer and sickle in that design Dougie, it ties in very nicely with the article I posted in my latest blog - http://www.politic.co.uk/blogs/midas...iet-union.html
"High taxes don't redistribute wealth; they redistribute taxpayers" -- Arthur Laffer
World goin one way, people another
How about this:
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8083/euflagu.jpg
Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
E. B. White
"To be honest, you think a/c jump the fence, I say the whole college jump the fence"
The wonder that is Angelcountry
"If we're going to have a police state, at least orgainise it properly!"
Guy Outside the Chilcott Enquiry as he was led away by police for causing a 'disturbance' (thanks to LA I now know his name is Michael Culver)
Senior MP
Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!
Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.
MP
Any of these any good?
http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5484/nazieuyb4.png
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4752/ccceung9.png
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...r_1518669c.jpg
By the way, so-called official EU flag isn't even a real flag. As the EU is not officially a recognised country itself the flag is not real either. It's just an advertisement. Promotional material. So bit of a cheek considering they put it on the number plates supplied with new cars, give it out at ferry terminals as a car sticker for the back of your car, put it onto leaflets and posters for other promotions.
Mine was somewhat a joke. Do you realise the irony of using a swastika and hammer/sickle to describe the same thing?Originally Posted by Emmett Jenner
Senior MP
I imagine the reply you receive to that will probably involve the phrase "but Hitler was a socialist"
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
Conservative Member
But Hitler was a socialist?
:P
Senior MP
National Socialism is a propaganda word, and in reality is Nationalism
Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!
Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.
Sorry! My mistake! I'll just go and hand power over to a dictator, join the army and go to war against Belgium for not being my country to follow my true socialist ideals.
MP
NAZI = National Socialist German Workers Party - Socialists hate to be reminded of this.
But in truth, death is the result of socialism. Socialists love the idea of a 'Far Right' category (in politics - i.e. as far removed from us as possible) into which they can put the NAZI's, BNP, and anyone else who disagrees with their ideals. Technically speaking, Far Right - means you have an extremely liberal attitude to the structure of the economy. Businesses and traders should be deregulated so they are totally free to make as much profit as the market will provide them with. Following this position on the economy you then have an alternate axis to establish your liberal/authoritarian credentials. The extreme liberal position is total anarchy. No law, you cannot go to work or leave your property, it might be gone when you get back… not ideal. At the other end of the spectrum you have extreme authoritarians. Hitler and Stalin were extreme authoritarians. Stalin was an extreme socialist, Hitler a socialist but not to the same extent as Stalin. Generally authoritarianism is a bad thing and so is socialism, Hitler had both, so did Stalin. They occupy a very similar place on the political spectrum.
Almost entirely what was predicted. *Sighs*, do ANY far-right people read books? Or anything about political theory? Ever? Good luck convincing a politics professor that Hitler was a true socialist.
Conservative Member
Very aggressive nationalism to be specific (jingoism)... Normal nationalism doesn't seek the destruction of an entire culture/race.
See Dougie, doesn't it feel wonderful to finally embrace socialism properly?Sorry! My mistake! I'll just go and hand power over to a dictator, join the army and go to war against Belgium for not being my country to follow my true socialist ideals.
MP
Almost entirely? Which bit was not? Of course, assuming you work in the education system as a professor? It will be your job to promote the socialist cause. Even though, judging by the things Hitler did and said it is technically accurate to class him as a left-wing authoritarian I'd imagine you would find it impossible to ever admit this. Socialism thrives on division. The ideas of dividing society up into those who are good and those who are bad. It provides a base to work from when implementing unpopular painful policies that are "hard but really for the good of society." The tough choices. Meddling in other peoples countries. Robbing from the rich to feed the poor. Robin Hood - the first socialist.
Let me put you straight on a matter of fact. Personally, I don't class myself as far right. I believe our society does need a safety net. A far-right position is that of the law of the jungle. "If you're strong you survive, if you're weak you won't eat and you will die." I can't see a practical way to implement a society that does not care for the less fortunate. As I don't support this far-right position I consider myself centre-right rather than far-right. I don't appreciate the moral case put in favour of taking the earnings of a man who works hard to pay a man that doesn't - so I am not left-wing either.
In response specifically to your single sentence reply by insult... please, educate us, explain where we have gone so wrong... if this is what you believe?
Senior MP
As has been previously said on this forum, if the UK wants to ever matter it needs to support the EU.
Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!
Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.
MP
Or to put it another way... if the UK wants to disappear it needs to continue with the project. The UK will become / already just a region of the EU rather than a country in its own right.
You see, contradictory nonsense. The EU is a bad thing and needs to be stopped. Vote UKIP.
Senior MP
He wasn't a true socialist, just an ordinary, run of the mill one.
Senior MP
If the UK rejects the EU, it's long trip to irrelevance will continue.
Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!
Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.
Chancellor
Do you seriously believe that? As time passes, the UK gets sucked further and further into the EU bureaucratic machinery and loses more and more of its national identity. As a trading nation we'd not suffer one iota if we left the EU but maintained trading links; they need out goods and services far more than we need their's, and that's in addition to the fact we'd leave behind literally mountains of ill-conceived and ill-implemented "one size is supposed to fit all" bureaucratic legislation which cost the taxpayer billions of pounds each and every year.
Just to give you one tiny example of the devastation the EU has wreaked on a part of the British economy, look at the effects of the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP). Since we joined the EU the number of fishermen in the British fishing industry has dropped by around 10,000, or almost 50%, but far more importantly, supporting industries have lost a total of 115,000 jobs simply because our own fishing fleet's share of fish caught in our own territorial waters dropped from 1,110,096 tonnes in 1973 to 615,780 tonnes in 2006, and it's down yet again. For the privilege of having this thrust on us by EU competition in our own waters, for every £1 that the UK receives back from the EU to 'support' our own fishing industry, Spanish fishing fleets, who are one of the major causes of the decimation of our fishing stocks, receive £6.72, enough to enable them to build over 1,400 new fishing vessels and to modernise a further 1,800 - by comparison we've lost over 20% of ours and many of the remaining boats are in a poor state of repair because of lack of funds. (Figures from The Taxpayer's Alliance)
You can repeat statistics like this over and over again across wide swathes of the British economy - and you still think it's in our best interests to remain a member?
"High taxes don't redistribute wealth; they redistribute taxpayers" -- Arthur Laffer
MP
A powerful country outside the EU? Where is the irrelevance in that? Tell you what, if you think leaving the EU is a toe in the water on the path to this countries destruction perhaps you should consider the amount of money we're paying them and how that is destroying us? With all this hot talk of a budget deficit in the media at the moment, wouldn't it be nice to be able to address that issue? Leaving the EU would go a long way to reducing this 1.4 trillion national debt we have. Cuts in government spending are generally considered bad and should be avoided if possible. So how do we make a cut without damaging the NHS or our Education system? Simple, cut the EU!
Senior MP
http://www.kosmopolito.org/wordpress...7_244315a1.jpg
The EU pwns you all
Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!
Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.
Chancellor
Hmmm, a lot of those almost 3 year out of date "reasons to love the EU" really have little to do with Britain's membership and far more to do with the fact that we belong to Europe as a continent and would want to have closer ties to other countries within the continent regardless of anything else, ties which could be accomplished better and cheaper by direct negotiation. I'm quite sure there are far more than 50 very valid reasons not to love the EU!
"High taxes don't redistribute wealth; they redistribute taxpayers" -- Arthur Laffer
MP
Don't need 50 reasons to leave the EU. One or two good ones are enough. Thinking of 50 reasons why we should abandon reason (as in Love) and sacrifice as much as we can for the love of the EU is just desperate. I didn’t bother reading 50 reasons. I know the case in favour and it isn’t a strong one.
Because you know that they might challenge your opinion with scary facts? Come on, at least Midas has considered both sides of the argument rather than just picking a side due to some kind of xenophobia or vague ideas of pride.
MP
Surely you're winding me up? Xenophobia is fear of the foreign or unusual. How does aligning 27 individual countries in political Union promote foreign or unusual activities? It turns countries, and consequentially the people of those countries into the same kind of single-minded repressed human operating according to the same guidelines and principals. The EU is not a celebration of culture and diversity. The EU is going to destroy all the things we love about Europe. Call them xenophobic if you want a word for it. My reasons for wishing to leave the EU have nothing to do with pride or Britishness or any of that Union Jack malarkey so you'd be wasting your time with that argument if you were to try it again.
MP
Ok, why not, I'll play along:
1. The end of war between European Nations. So our leaders aren't fighting at the moment. But being part of this political union does not in itself give any guarantee that war will not break out. In fact, given the fact it is so unpopular with the people it is my feeling that the ship will hit the fan eventually.
2. Democracy is now flourishing in 27 European Countries. Must be a joke? Who voted in favour of the Union? Who voted for the president or foreign minister recently appointed? We have EU elections to decide who our MEP's will be, (and lots of them are UKIP MEP's!) but what demonstrable consequences are there for voters choosing one elected representative in relation to another? Could we vote 'them' out = NO! Does the parliament with the elected representative control the European Union? NO. The EU is largely controlled by the EU commission. Can the parliament hold to account any EU commissioner with dismissal as a consequence? NO - so you see, very undemocratic. It is one of the biggest problems with the EU. How well did the referendum go in Ireland? Hmm. If democracy were a feature of the EU then the EU itself wouldn't even exist. It has been brought in by stealth against the will of the people.
3. Once-poor countries such as Ireland, Greece and Portugal, are prospering. HAHAHAHA... Ireland's economy is very bad with massive un-employment. Greece is completely bankrupt, they are now looking for a bail-out. If we do bail-out Greece it will cost the UK billions, other countries like Spain and Ireland may refuse to take part in this bail-out activity due to their own financial worries. The other option for Greece is to leave the EU. Or the EU could change its rules and allow Greece to be bankrupt whilst continuing it's membership. This is a very difficult problem for the EU and I hope it works out badly for them. To pretend this EU business is like a magic wand is so naive. Ireland, Greece, ect, ect, may have been poor but they were poor and doing alright. They were poor because they are small nations not doing a lot of trade and not much of a banking and finance industry. It takes a long time and lots of fine adjustment and tweaking to keep these small economies running smoothly. The investment from the EU has CLEARLY WRECKED THEM!
4. Creation of the of the World's largest internal trading market. I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean? Are they talking about regular internal trade or currencies or stocks trading or what? Don know really. But in any case, what's so great about whatever it is being so large? Hopefully they aren't referring to the EU protectionism that creates cheese mountains and lakes of wine or milk?
5. Unparalleled rights for European Consumers. We already had consumer rights in this country before the European Union. Not a reason to Love the EU.
6. Cooperation on continent-wide immigration policy. That's been great hasn't it. Could people not have just stayed in their home countries if the EU has made them so much more prosperous? Well they didn't. The people of Europe came to England. Actually my partner is from Eastern Europe so I'm not against immigration, but she came in through the traditional route before the flood-gates burst open. The immigration we have had recently has been bad for our countries and bad for the countries losing their populations. It's also been bad for the immigrants themselves. The promised land does not in fact have streets paved with gold like they were told. There are companies in Poland that arrange for Polish citizens to visit England for a day trip to sign on at a jobcentre and obtain a national insurance number. This doubles the allowances a Polish person would expect to receive under normal conditions in their native country. A pretty poor state of affairs if you ask me. I don't remember immigration being broken before hand.
7. Cooperation on crime through Europol. I think a reason to fear the EU rather than fall in Love with it. Under NAZI Germany the equivalent organisation was called the Gestapo. Need to know any more?
8. Laws that make it easier for British people to buy property in Europe. Again, very much not a reason to love the EU. Since the European Court of Human rights has interfered with the property rights in Northern Cyprus many of the British people that bought homes there stand to lose them. This is especially likely given the recent ruling by the court. Due to some politics from the 70's it has been decided that the homes sold in Northern Cyprus should not have been sold. The people who bought them will not be getting their money back.
9… actually, turns out I can’t be bothered after all. Soz.
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