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As far as this particular topic is concerned, if it is proven that Israel is behind the murder and the associated stolen identities, I sincerely hope that all those countries concerned will take whatever action they can against the Israeli government for this complete lack of respect and regard for international law.

Where is the EVIDENCE that Israel were responsible for this?

Originally Posted by Barry

Where is the EVIDENCE that Israel were responsible for this?

As far as I know, no-one has yet said specifically that Israel is responsible, just that all the available evidence points to their involvement.

How are we going to sort out the identity theft crisis everywhere now ?

With all the phantoms available not even a res-gestae scenarions so what is the story ?

Originally Posted by JessieHogg

OMG....Police in Dubai now say 12 cloned British passports were used in the killing of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, as the total number of suspects rose to 26.

Source : Six more Britons had identities stolen by 'Mossad assassins' - Telegraph

I believe they did they also used 3 cloned Aussie passports.

Australia Angry Over Cloned IDs In Dubai Hit


Israel's ambassador to Australia has been summoned to a meeting with the country's foreign minister after three Australians became the latest victims of identity theft in the apparent assassination of a senior Palestinian.
Dubai police have named 15 new suspects in the murder of Hamas commander Mahmoud al Mabhouh, who was found dead in his hotel room last month.
Authorities in the Emirate have accused the Israeli intelligence service Mossad of being behind the killing.
Prime Minister Kevin Rudd reacted with anger to the news that three innocent citizens had their passport information used by the suspects, and has ordered a full investigation by the Australian Federal Police.
"Was there a state involved in the use or forgery of these passports in the conduct of an assassination?" he said.
"It doesn't matter which state it is, any state that chooses to do this in relation to Australian passports, frankly, is treating the Australian people, the Australian government, and the Australian nation with contempt. We will not let the matter lie."

Australian Passports Copied For Assassination Of Senior Palestinian - Israel Ambassador Summoned | World News | Sky News

Hi,

I do not understand the fuss about Passports - that is what Intelligence Forces do - where is the outcry about the fascist behaviour and genocide being purpetrated by the Zionist terrorist forces against the indigenous Palestinians?

Further Obama's Government has committed $80Million to supporting the genocide - are they not content with the obscene massacres in Iraq and other acts of criminal lunacy in Afghanistan's ongoing civil war currently being fought between India & Pakistan?

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by angelcountry

How are we going to sort out the identity theft crisis everywhere now ?

With all the phantoms available not even a res-gestae scenarions so what is the story ?

Hi,

we can be certain it will not be sorted out by holding a National Data Base as that can be tampered with as effectively as inputted to!

ID Cards will be more readily available than firearms within days of their launch.

Howmany 10s of 1,000s of blank documents have the Government alone lost not to mention that extension to the executive dole queue known as QUANGOs!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Barry

Where is the EVIDENCE that Israel were responsible for this?

The evidence?

1. The qualitiy of the passports was seemingly very good indeed - very few agencies could pull that off, Mossad being one of them;

2. At least some of the passports used were clones of those issues to British citiziens resident within Israel - therefore the Israelis had all necessary details of the paspports used. The only other Country to have that data is Britain;

3. The passports cloned were seemingly well cloned indeed, right down to the correct passport number and issue data;

4. The MO of this particular murder is consistent with other murders conducted by Mossad;

5. The Israelis have form for cloning or otherwise obtaining other nations passports when attempting to disguise their illegal activities;

6. The MO of the murder operation was too complicated to have been the work of Palestinians, the Syrians or Iranians, besides, who else would want the man dead: he planned the deaths of IDF personnel.

Its blatantly obvious that this was the work of Israel, a country whose hands have been dripping with the blood of Palestinian men, women and children for decades.
7.

Originally Posted by Barry

Where is the EVIDENCE that Israel were responsible for this?

Hi,

not only has the media reported the criminality as being that of Mossad may I remind you that the Zionist Modus Operandi having seeized control of most of Palestine has utilised the state sponsored terrorist IDF to confine the indiginous peoples behind miles of wall and are effectively practicing genocide, using tanks, bulldozers, helicopter gun ships and pure military might against largely unarmed women and children brutalising the people.

The creation of an almost exact replica of The Warsaw Ghetto designed to imprison the indigenous peoples is an obscenity creating ever more desperate extremism for these peoples resulting through democracy in ever more hard line leaders. Now we see the Zionist terrorists using so called State provided fake, forged or stolen passports to enter other countries and murder the supporters of the beleaguered indigenous peoples they are systematically destroying by design.

This is making a mockery of any pretence that Israel should be treated as other than a terrorist regime since it practices terrorism at every level even in breech of not just more UN Resolutions than any other organisation but also in total breech of numerous international laws on Nuclear proliferation and clearly utilisers of institutionalised torture.

The vile behaviour inflicted on the peoples of Palestine show that the faux state of Israel which was founded through terrorism by Zionists will hopefully fall as a result of the failure of their ability to mature from that self same terrorism despite the damage they have done in the long term with unrepairable notable falls in the acquffers to levels that will not repair even if untapped within a matter of centuries making agriculture increasingly dependent on Turkish water - in view of the continued abuses of the Palestines we can but hope Turkey will control the taps to bring the Zionist terrorists to heel.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

1. The qualitiy of the passports was seemingly very good indeed - very few agencies could pull that off, Mossad being one of them;
Conjecture
2. At least some of the passports used were clones of those issues to British citiziens resident within Israel - therefore the Israelis had all necessary details of the paspports used. The only other Country to have that data is Britain;
some? - more conjecture - flawed conjecture this time
3. The passports cloned were seemingly well cloned indeed, right down to the correct passport number and issue data;
So they were good quality forgeries?
4. The MO of this particular murder is consistent with other murders conducted by Mossad;
Which M.O.?
The death is variously reported to have been by electrocution, poisoning, asphyxia, - so which is actually correct?
5. The Israelis have form for cloning or otherwise obtaining other nations passports when attempting to disguise their illegal activities;
So do various other countries in the world, including the USA and Britain.
6. The MO of the murder operation was too complicated to have been the work of Palestinians, the Syrians or Iranians, besides, who else would want the man dead: he planned the deaths of IDF personnel.
Only Arabs have so far been detained for this crime.
Its blatantly obvious that this was the work of Israel, a country whose hands have been dripping with the blood of Palestinian men, women and children for decades.
I agree Israel would have a motive, as Mabhouh was responsible for the abduction, probable torture and deaths of two Israeli soldiers.

As I said - NO EVIDENCE
But plenty of conjecture and accusation from Greg and millions of people around the world who want to blame most of the world's ills and evils upon Israel.

Originally Posted by Barry

As I said - NO EVIDENCE

Or they have evidence, but have not released it Barry.

Though don't forget that Mass Murder is essentially the national sport of Israel.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

not only has the media reported the criminality as being that of Mossad may I remind you that the Zionist Modus Operandi having seeized control of most of Palestine has utilised the state sponsored terrorist IDF to confine the indiginous peoples behind miles of wall and are effectively practicing genocide, using tanks, bulldozers, helicopter gun ships and pure military might against largely unarmed women and children brutalising the people.

The media report it? That is not usually good enough for you Greg.
The IDF is not a terrorist organisation, as they do not deliberately target civilians. Miles of wall are to defend thenselves from attack from suicide bombings and the like. The USA also has miles of wall with Mexico, - don't hear much about that do we?

The creation of an almost exact replica of The Warsaw Ghetto designed to imprison the indigenous peoples is an obscenity creating ever more desperate extremism for these peoples resulting through democracy in ever more hard line leaders. Now we see the Zionist terrorists using so called State provided fake, forged or stolen passports to enter other countries and murder the supporters of the beleaguered indigenous peoples they are systematically destroying by design.

It is in no way shape or form an exact replica of the Warsaw Ghetto.
This idea is simply trying to turn the Jews into Nazis, by accusing them of something which is false. There is no evidence, as yet, that Mossad are responsible, but you are all too willing to believe so, probably due to your hatred of the Jews defending themselves from their enemies.

This is making a mockery of any pretence that Israel should be treated as other than a terrorist regime since it practices terrorism at every level even in breech of not just more UN Resolutions than any other organisation but also in total breech of numerous international laws on Nuclear proliferation and clearly utilisers of institutionalised torture.

Israel is a legitimate democratic country. it does not practice terrorism, it does defend itself against Islamist terrorism, in much the same way as the rest of the world is trying to do. Israel are particularly successful with this huge threat on their doorstep, some observers are only happy when Jews are being killed.
Palestine does not properly exist, it is not a legitimate country.

The vile behaviour inflicted on the peoples of Palestine show that the faux state of Israel which was founded through terrorism by Zionists will hopefully fall as a result of the failure of their ability to mature from that self same terrorism despite the damage they have done in the long term with unrepairable notable falls in the acquffers to levels that will not repair even if untapped within a matter of centuries making agriculture increasingly dependent on Turkish water - in view of the continued abuses of the Palestines we can but hope Turkey will control the taps to bring the Zionist terrorists to heel.

Israel is a legitimate state founded by legitimate UN Charter, not by terrorism.
They have enormous energy reserves of gas, and these will power electricity stations which will power desalination plants. They should not go thirsty. They have some of the best desalination technology in the world, after, funnily enough, Spain.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Hmmm

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Though don't forget that Mass Murder is essentially the national sport of Israel.

That is a downright lie.

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley

6. The MO of the murder operation was too complicated to have been the work of Palestinians, the Syrians or Iranians, besides, who else would want the man dead: he planned the deaths of IDF personnel.

Its blatantly obvious that this was the work of Israel, a country whose hands have been dripping with the blood of Palestinian men, women and children for decades.
7.

Interestingly enough, that isn't true. While it is obvious that Israel has the most reason for killing this man, and frankly who actually cares?, the operation itself wasn't very effective or Mossad esque. Parts of the operation, such as the arrival a few days beforehand and then leaving another couple of days after the murder, are traits of Mossad, but what it actually looks like is an attempt to make it look like a Mossad hit. Firstly, a common saying within Mossad has been 'Don't send two men when one is enough, don't send three when two is enough', yet there have been 26 confirmed operatives and possibly as many as 30, too many for a Mossad hit. Secondly they were rather blatant about the hit, the agents were caught on camera on numerous occasions, and they were very sloppy about the whole operation, again, not a Mossad trait. Unless there have been internal shakeups in the last 20 years within Mossad that have led to a severe decline in operation standard, which is unlikely, then this probably wasn't Mossad, but rather designed to look like it was.

Originally Posted by Barry

But plenty of conjecture and accusation from Greg and millions of people around the world who want to blame most of the world's ills and evils upon Israel.

Hi,

I don't blame Israel for anything I don't even recognise the terrorist scum.

I object to countries being founded on superstition, imagination and terrorist blackmail as was Israel by Zionists who have brought shame and humiliation on decent honest Jewish folk world wide.

The sooner the self important land and money grabbing fascist Zionists are sent back whence they came the happier and safer we will all be.

Liberated from the evils of Zionism Jews, Christians, Muslims and sun worshipping Arabs can all live in peace in Palestine as they had done for years until the Zionist land grab!

Be assured I have NEVER blamed the world's evil on Israel - it is the evil of the world in its own right.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Barry

That is a downright lie.

Hi,

how can you be so dishonest when the IDF terrorist forces have built a wall around the indigenous people of Palestine in a fraction of THEIR land and now use tanks, bull dozers, heavy armament, helicopter gun ships and utter control against a largely unarmed empoverished people in a replica of the Warsaw Ghetto and practice emotional and cultural genocide on them!

Schattila & Schebronizza spring to mind as Zionist Mass Murders and Zionist acts of mercy such as the bombing of The King David and the sinking of an American Naval Coms ship feature fairly high on the list of acts of terrorism plus numerous murders and the torture of your own people.

Zionism and Israel bring shame on world Jewry.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

I object to countries being founded on superstition, imagination and terrorist blackmail as was Israel by Zionists who have brought shame and humiliation on decent honest Jewish folk world wide.

The UN declaration bringing Israel into being was not based on superstition, but practicality. Over 30% of the population wanted a separate state, It was going to happen, and as I've pointed out before, the UN was only doing what was sensible.

The sooner the self important land and money grabbing fascist Zionists are sent back whence they came the happier and safer we will all be.

Liberated from the evils of Zionism Jews, Christians, Muslims and sun worshipping Arabs can all live in peace in Palestine as they had done for years until the Zionist land grab!

Sent back where exactly? You're talking about the mass movement of millions of people. You suggestion is entirely moronic and clearly demonstrates how little you understand the situation.

What's more Palestine, as I have pointed out, was never under Arabic control, nor was there a significant population prior to 1850 and the begginning of Jewish immigration. In most cases the Palestinians have only been there as long as the Jews have, attracted by the capital brought by the Jews. Also you seem to think it was the Jews who started the conflict, they didn't, it was the Arab riots (and subsequent massacres) that began the conflict in the 1920s.

Originally Posted by Barry

The media report it? That is not usually good enough for you Greg.

On what substantive quote do you base this?

Originally Posted by Barry

The IDF is not a terrorist organisation, as they do not deliberately target civilians.

The IDF IS a terrorist organisation which wages war against civilians repeatedly - it has attacked other countries and murdered their people on numerous occasions. It has turned its massive weaponry on armed Palestinians and driven them out of their own land to form a ghetto.

Originally Posted by Barry

Miles of wall are to defend thenselves from attack from suicide bombings and the like.

Rubbish - Zionists have proved so revolting they are destroying Judaism world wide and causing the unfortunate Jews to be unfairly blamed for their vile repressive and murderous behaviour.

Originally Posted by Barry

The USA also has miles of wall with Mexico, - don't hear much about that do we?

I didn't see any wall when I crossed from the Sovereign State of America into the Sovereign State of Mexico any more than the border between Countries world wide and nowhere else on the planet is there a walled prison for the dispossessed once their home is stolen, only in Palestine.

Originally Posted by Barry

It is in no way shape or form an exact replica of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Correct - it isn't made of bricks but is walled off in concrete.

Originally Posted by Barry

This idea is simply trying to turn the Jews into Nazis, by accusing them of something which is false.

Do not lie and misrepresent - this is Zionist Nazis trying to hide behind the Jews, whilst they carry out their cowardly terrorism.

Originally Posted by Barry

There is no evidence, as yet, that Mossad are responsible, but you are all too willing to believe so, probably due to your hatred of the Jews defending themselves from their enemies.

It is absolutely nothing to do with world Judaism and everything to do with Mossad who are the enforcers for Zionism - The scum of the earth brought together on the make and the take.

Originally Posted by Barry

Israel is a legitimate democratic country.

What with the indiginous people encacerated behind a wall, denied the right to work having had their land stolen and their children starved - don't talk cr@p.

Originally Posted by Barry

it does not practice terrorism,

So far EVERY point you have made has been dishonest - now you are just being stupid!

I am disgusted by Zionism and its contempt for truth.

You reinforce my contempt with your undeniable dishonesty - so very Zionist.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

The UN declaration bringing Israel into being was not based on superstition, but practicality. Over 30% of the population wanted a separate state, It was going to happen, and as I've pointed out before, the UN was only doing what was sensible.

I disagree.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Sent back where exactly? You're talking about the mass movement of millions of people. You suggestion is entirely moronic and clearly demonstrates how little you understand the situation.

They got there! Since they refuse to honour their agreement to live in peace and now even force the indiginous people into Ghettos - let them leave again - they have proved dishonourable, dishonest and brutally cruel.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

What's more Palestine, as I have pointed out, was never under Arabic control, nor was there a significant population prior to 1850 and the begginning of Jewish immigration.

so what? The world population has more than trippled in the last 60 years - do be minded that without depleting and destroying the aquiffers the land is agriculturally unviable.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

In most cases the Palestinians have only been there as long as the Jews have, attracted by the capital brought by the Jews.

May the Jews be welcome as they were let the wealth accrued by the Zionists leave with them. The population of Palestine has and would have grown since 1850.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Also you seem to think it was the Jews who started the conflict, they didn't, it was the Arab riots (and subsequent massacres) that began the conflict in the 1920s.

Consider why they were rioting and do remember the acts of terrorism that brought the Zionist control.

Do not conflate the evils of Zionism with the revulsion world wide which Jews have for the behaviour of Zionists.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

I disagree.

I struggle to see why. What you have is 30% of the population who controlled upwards of 60% of the capital of the region, highly organised with a fledgingly military, highly motivated nationalistically and well within their means to found their own country and defend it if necesarry, which it turns out it was. Israel was happening, it could either happen with the Jews founding Israel unilaterally, and probably provoking a violent response from the Arabs, or a peaceful solution could be reached. The peaceful solution was reached and then sabotaged by Arab greed.

They got there! Since they refuse to honour their agreement to live in peace and now even force the indiginous people into Ghettos - let them leave again - they have proved dishonourable, dishonest and brutally cruel.

Over the course of almost a century. And that's just up to 1948, there has been almost 200 years of Zionist Jewish settlement in Palestine with a constantly growing population. You clearly don't have your head screwed on the right way if you think you can just up and move these people.

so what? The world population has more than trippled in the last 60 years - do be minded that without depleting and destroying the aquiffers the land is agriculturally unviable.



May the Jews be welcome as they were let the wealth accrued by the Zionists leave with them. The population of Palestine has and would have grown since 1850.

The population nor wealth of Palestine would have not grown anywhere near its current level without Jewish immigration. My point was that Arab Palestinians have very little claim to traditional ownership (a concept I despise) in the area. You make an interesting point brining up the aquifers and irrigation in Israel, built with Jewish capital by Jews, the expansive system of water management is what makes many parts of Israel arable. Without such projects it's unlikely it could support the population it does.

Consider why they were rioting and do remember the acts of terrorism that brought the Zionist control.

They were rioting thanks to enflammatory statements made by Arab leaders, who were ignorant of the fact they had the jews and their money to thank for Palestine's growing wealth, compunded with failures by the British to control the situation and mismanage and misinterpret diplomatic discussions with both parties. What's more the 'acts of terrorism' made by Israel have largely been in response to Arab aggression or as a reasonable way of defending Israel and her population from the real terrorists.

[QUOTE=Barry;100160]1. The qualitiy of the passports was seemingly very good indeed - very few agencies could pull that off, Mossad being one of them;
Conjecture

Really? ask the Canadians, New Zealanders and indeed our own Government - Mossad agents have been caught by or caught using false passports issued by those Countries. Indeed Israel had to own up to the activities of their Mossad agents in New Zealand who were caught using false passports.
QUOTE]

2. At least some of the passports used were clones of those issues to British citiziens resident within Israel - therefore the Israelis had all necessary details of the paspports used. The only other Country to have that data is Britain;
some? - more conjecture - flawed conjecture this time

What other countries then Barry - the murderers (for that is what they were by any civlilised messure) would have the passport details: I actually saw one of the guys who's passport had been cloned confirm duting a TV interview that the passport issue data was as per his own passport, a passport he was in possession of and had never lost nor mislaid, or so he said. I've travelled around the world and never seen any country copy my passport nor take it out of sight. So how did these well organised murders obtain the data necessary to successfully clone the passport?

Pretty massive coincidence isn't it Barry, that a team of organised murders would clone a passport of someone resident within one of the most secure countries on earth, a country who just happened to have past form for ripping off other nation's passports when going about their unlawful activities, and that's without considering that the guy they murdered happened to be a known target of the Israelis.....is that the coffee I smell Barry?

3. The passports cloned were seemingly well cloned indeed, right down to the correct passport number and issue data;
So they were good quality forgeries?

See my above answer. Coincidence eh?

4. The MO of this particular murder is consistent with other murders conducted by Mossad;
Which M.O.?
The death is variously reported to have been by electrocution, poisoning, asphyxia, - so which is actually correct?

The MO I refer to is using an organised team with false passports to commit a murder in a third country. Israel has a long, and well documented history of such actions - please do some research before attempting to deny it.

5. The Israelis have form for cloning or otherwise obtaining other nations passports when attempting to disguise their illegal activities;
So do various other countries in the world, including the USA and Britain.
6. The MO of the murder operation was too complicated to have been the work of Palestinians, the Syrians or Iranians, besides, who else would want the man dead: he planned the deaths of IDF personnel.
Only Arabs have so far been detained for this crime.

I can't find any trace of the US or UK having used false passports to murder someone in a friendly country - if you do, I would be grateful if you could post it. As for the arrests, yes, only Palestinians - who have been known to work with Mossad to dispose of their mutual enemies.

Its blatantly obvious that this was the work of Israel, a country whose hands have been dripping with the blood of Palestinian men, women and children for decades.
I agree Israel would have a motive, as Mabhouh was responsible for the abduction, probable torture and deaths of two Israeli soldiers.

As I said - NO EVIDENCE
But plenty of conjecture and accusation from Greg and millions of people around the world who want to blame most of the world's ills and evils upon Israel.

Again, it is blatantly obvious that this was the work of Mossad,.

Awww, poor old Israel, perhaps if Israel did not occupy, oppress and murder, steal land, act in such a racist manner against non-Jews, then people might not criticise her. You accuse myself and others of conjecture and blaming Israel for the world's ills (which clearly is not true), yet you blindly support her despite her numerous war crimes and policies of aggression and murder, policies that cause instablity and hatred.

[QUOTE=The Untalented Mr Ripley;100194]

Originally Posted by Barry

1. The qualitiy of the passports was seemingly very good indeed - very few agencies could pull that off, Mossad being one of them;
Conjecture

Really? ask the Canadians, New Zealanders and indeed our own Government - Mossad agents have been caught by or caught using false passports issued by those Countries. Indeed Israel had to own up to the activities of their Mossad agents in New Zealand who were caught using false passports.
QUOTE]



What other countries then Barry - the murderers (for that is what they were by any civlilised messure) would have the passport details: I actually saw one of the guys who's passport had been cloned confirm duting a TV interview that the passport issue data was as per his own passport, a passport he was in possession of and had never lost nor mislaid, or so he said. I've travelled around the world and never seen any country copy my passport nor take it out of sight. So how did these well organised murders obtain the data necessary to successfully clone the passport?

Pretty massive coincidence isn't it Barry, that a team of organised murders would clone a passport of someone resident within one of the most secure countries on earth, a country who just happened to have past form for ripping off other nation's passports when going about their unlawful activities, and that's without considering that the guy they murdered happened to be a known target of the Israelis.....is that the coffee I smell Barry?



See my above answer. Coincidence eh?



The MO I refer to is using an organised team with false passports to commit a murder in a third country. Israel has a long, and well documented history of such actions - please do some research before attempting to deny it.



I can't find any trace of the US or UK having used false passports to murder someone in a friendly country - if you do, I would be grateful if you could post it. As for the arrests, yes, only Palestinians - who have been known to work with Mossad to dispose of their mutual enemies.



Again, it is blatantly obvious that this was the work of Mossad,.

Awww, poor old Israel, perhaps if Israel did not occupy, oppress and murder, steal land, act in such a racist manner against non-Jews, then people might not criticise her. You accuse myself and others of conjecture and blaming Israel for the world's ills (which clearly is not true), yet you blindly support her despite her numerous war crimes and policies of aggression and murder, policies that cause instablity and hatred.

Lots of bluff and bluster in your post, but still not a shred of evidence that Mossad are involved.
I like your pointer that because Arabs have been arrested it points towards Mossad. You are a laugh!
I don't blindly support Israel, but I certainly don't support a proscribed Islamist terrorist organisation such as Hamas.
Nor do I make false accusations against Israel.
Perhaps you might support terrorist Hamas.
Today, Dubai are reporting that they have DNA evidence of one of the 26 assassins.
Dubai police: We have '100 percent' DNA proof of one assassin - Haaretz - Israel News
26 assassins? - Must have been very busy in that hotel room.

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎ ~Benjamin Netanyahu~

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

I struggle to see why.

That at least is true!

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

What you have is 30% of the population who controlled upwards of 60% of the capital of the region, highly organised with a fledgingly military, highly motivated nationalistically and well within their means to found their own country and defend it if necesarry, which it turns out it was.

Without the huge donations from particularly America the Zionists would leave - their existence in Palestine is totally funded by America - the economy is a busted flush.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Israel was happening, it could either happen with the Jews founding Israel unilaterally, and probably provoking a violent response from the Arabs, or a peaceful solution could be reached.

And when do you envisage the Zionists might honour their peace agreements

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

The peaceful solution was reached and then sabotaged by Arab greed.

I look forward to the day when the peoples of these United Kingdoms awake in the realisation they have been dispossessed by duplicitous political chicannery and our greed for self determination and control of our own destiny emmulates that of the non Zionist Arabs.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Over the course of almost a century. And that's just up to 1948, there has been almost 200 years of Zionist Jewish settlement in Palestine with a constantly growing population.

Yes unfortunate wasn't it - a catastrophy for the various indigenous arabs whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian or without superstition.

Yes sadly the influx of Zionists have made the land untennable for all and now man's determination to invent gods to worship and blame has reached a flash point for the evil concept.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

You clearly don't have your head screwed on the right way if you think you can just up and move these people.

Is it that you are a slow learner that leads you to insult when bereft of logical argument.

May I point out that the Zionists have practiced a perfect role model for others to emmulate - just build a huge wall, secure it with mine fields, enclose some 15% of the land and drive the Zionists into then provide the indigenous people with the funding that was stolen by the insurgents and use heavy weapons, tanks and bulldozers with helicopter gun ships to harrass and kill the women and children and near unarmed Zionists.

It is simple Zionists have used the methods of the Warsaw Ghetto and shown yet again how efficacious such methods of deniable genocide are.

Especially when funded to the hilt by America acting as a malign power broker in the region.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

The population nor wealth of Palestine would have not grown anywhere near its current level without Jewish immigration.

It is Zionism which has been the problem and not Judaism - Jews have lived side by side with other varied superstitions throughout the Middle East from the Babylonians, Zoroastrians and onwards largely in significant peace and insignificant tribalism - are you so deluded as to believe that what has occurred is anything other than evil?

Has Palestine benefitted from either the hand outs of America or the influx of Zionists in any way - has Judaism?

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

My point was that Arab Palestinians have very little claim to traditional ownership (a concept I despise) in the area.

And the Zionists had none. You may despise ownership but it would seem to be the only system which has given rise to self respect, care of that which is owned and the desire to improve that this planet has ever found.
Communism has been a catastrophic failure in whatever model you may proffer leading to misery, famine and collaps as with the latest experiment of The EU the collapse of which is inevitable, just as its currency is little more than a farce as it finds itself incapable of feeding its peoples and those with the EU forced upon them.
A vast mismanaged commune that shows no signs of potential for anything but misery, with virtually no ability to export at a price anyone will buy.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

You make an interesting point brining up the aquifers and irrigation in Israel, built with Jewish capital by Jews, the expansive system of water management is what makes many parts of Israel arable.

I fear you delude yourself acquiffers are not built they have merely been dangerously dpleted by over exploitation in denial of the natural state of the land - the irregation with surface water is at the gift of Turkey and the Zionists used American money to do this long term damage that will ultimately fail - as they dispossessed and over ran the natural growth of the region - a growth gain that has been by virtue not of Zionists but of their parasitic manner of free hand outs from America in 100s of $Millions

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Without such projects it's unlikely it could support the population it does.

I does not without American subsidy and the Zionist subsidy junkies are even so destroying Palestine.

Regards,
Greg L-W.



They were rioting thanks to enflammatory statements made by Arab leaders, who were ignorant of the fact they had the jews and their money to thank for Palestine's growing wealth, compunded with failures by the British to control the situation and mismanage and misinterpret diplomatic discussions with both parties. What's more the 'acts of terrorism' made by Israel have largely been in response to Arab aggression or as a reasonable way of defending Israel and her population from the real terrorists.[/QUOTE]

Without the huge donations from particularly America the Zionists would leave - their existence in Palestine is totally funded by America - the economy is a busted flush.

Err, no they wouldn't. And in any case the Israeli economy is fine, while it's true they do have access to American loans, in recent years they haven't needed to use them.

And when do you envisage the Zionists might honour their peace agreements

When the Arabs honour their's.

I look forward to the day when the peoples of these United Kingdoms awake in the realisation they have been dispossessed by duplicitous political chicannery and our greed for self determination and control of our own destiny emmulates that of the non Zionist Arabs.

I don't even know what you're saying here, you've just completely dodged my point.

Yes unfortunate wasn't it - a catastrophy for the various indigenous arabs whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian or without superstition.

I don't understand your point about superstition, and that's simply history.

Is it that you are a slow learner that leads you to insult when bereft of logical argument.

May I point out that the Zionists have practiced a perfect role model for others to emmulate - just build a huge wall, secure it with mine fields, enclose some 15% of the land and drive the Zionists into then provide the indigenous people with the funding that was stolen by the insurgents and use heavy weapons, tanks and bulldozers with helicopter gun ships to harrass and kill the women and children and near unarmed Zionists.

It is simple Zionists have used the methods of the Warsaw Ghetto and shown yet again how efficacious such methods of deniable genocide are.

Especially when funded to the hilt by America acting as a malign power broker in the region.

Again, you neatly sidestep my point and answer with drivel. You have not answered how or where you intend to move over 7 and a half million people, many of which were born and raised in Israel and do not want to leave.

Israel, like every other nation on this Earth, has a right to defend itself. However unlike other nations, Israel has had to deal with the threat of complete and utter destruction, not just occupation, but actual genocide, for the last 70 years. It builds a wall to stop Palestinians crossing the border to blow up cafes and schools, it occupies parts of Palestine so it can fight terrorism, something the Palestinian Government either cannot, or has chosen not to do. For all intents and purposes Palestine along with other Arab nations have been in an active state of war with Israel for the last 70 years, they have no issue in murdering women and children, indeed Hamas prefers to kill women and children, so Israel, if anything, has been extremely lenient in restricting its responses.

It is Zionism which has been the problem and not Judaism - Jews have lived side by side with other varied superstitions throughout the Middle East from the Babylonians, Zoroastrians and onwards largely in significant peace and insignificant tribalism - are you so deluded as to believe that what has occurred is anything other than evil?

Has Palestine benefitted from either the hand outs of America or the influx of Zionists in any way - has Judaism?

Most Zionists are Jews, indeed Zionism as a concept is a Jewish one. And no, what has happened is not evil, it's history. The Jews were treated like crap in Europe so they decided to move to their ancestral home, which at the time was largely unpopulated and apart from some religious sites contained no significant infrastructure or anything of value. They were further encouraged by a British White paper and by the Ottoman King who welcomed the Jews. As the population grew they decided that they wanted a state to call their own, and not live in an Arabic state due to tensions between the two groups (sparked by the Arab riots). They worked toward and accepted a UN partition plan which was fair to both sides. The Arabs responded violently and invaded a day after Israel declared independance with the specific intent to drive the Israelis into the sea. Point out the evil bit.

And the Zionists had none. You may despise ownership but it would seem to be the only system which has given rise to self respect, care of that which is owned and the desire to improve that this planet has ever found.
Communism has been a catastrophic failure in whatever model you may proffer leading to misery, famine and collaps as with the latest experiment of The EU the collapse of which is inevitable, just as its currency is little more than a farce as it finds itself incapable of feeding its peoples and those with the EU forced upon them.
A vast mismanaged commune that shows no signs of potential for anything but misery, with virtually no ability to export at a price anyone will buy.

I don't despise ownership, as I'm not a moron, I despise the concept of traditional ownership. The Idea that someone has claim over land because their great grandfather lived there is absurd, however it is frequently a concept that the Palestinians cling to. Now on the issue of Israeli claim to traditional ownership, that has more merit than a Palestinian one. Ethnically most Jews are Semites, a group of people that lived in Palestine and included the Judeans. Palestine is the homeland of the Semite people, and most Jews can trace back to Semite lineage. Palestinians however, are Arab, and come from a wide variety of places, such as the Saudi peninsular and North Africa, and as such, have little to no claim to ethnic connections to the land of Palestine. But like I said, I don't support traditional ownership.

I fear you delude yourself acquiffers are not built they have merely been dangerously dpleted by over exploitation in denial of the natural state of the land - the irregation with surface water is at the gift of Turkey and the Zionists used American money to do this long term damage that will ultimately fail - as they dispossessed and over ran the natural growth of the region - a growth gain that has been by virtue not of Zionists but of their parasitic manner of free hand outs from America in 100s of $Millions

Again, I fail to see your point about American support, America supports many countries around the world, and Israel has actually refused support in recent years. What's more its extensive irrigation and water management systems are the best in the world, and were entirely devoloped by the Israeli Government, in fact Israel's major water carrier was in the planning stages prior to independence (and American money). Without this tight management of water, Israel would not have the wealth it does today. Agriculture is a major source of the country's wealth as it lacks any significant mineral deposits.

[QUOTE=Barry;100195]

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley

Lots of bluff and bluster in your post, but still not a shred of evidence that Mossad are involved.
I like your pointer that because Arabs have been arrested it points towards Mossad. You are a laugh!
I don't blindly support Israel, but I certainly don't support a proscribed Islamist terrorist organisation such as Hamas.
Nor do I make false accusations against Israel.
Perhaps you might support terrorist Hamas.
Today, Dubai are reporting that they have DNA evidence of one of the 26 assassins.
Dubai police: We have '100 percent' DNA proof of one assassin - Haaretz - Israel News
26 assassins? - Must have been very busy in that hotel room.

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎ ~Benjamin Netanyahu~

I thought my post was dripping with rather obvious circumstantial evidence; MO, past history, and motive all present Barry; no trace of bluster on my part. I do not seek to defend murders and terrorists, I leave that to the supporters of the illegal state of Israel, in my view Hamas and the IDF are as bad as each other, albeit the IDF have slaughtered and murdered far more civilians than Hamas or indeed all Palestinian terrorist and freedom fighting groups put together have managed.

As for your point regarding Palestinian involvement with Mossad, perhaps you need to do some research to see just how frequently there is collusion between Israel. Strange you don't answer any my other points that demonstrate Mossad are responsible for this particular murder.

As for my supporting Hamas, why might I support Hamas Barry - because I believe that Israel is fundamentally a racist state guilty of war crimes and repeated human rights violations; is this the current pro-Israel view; anyone who criticises us must support Hamas.

As for Netanyahu's quote, yup he has a point: after years of slaughter, racism, exclusion, land theft, oppression and murder, the victims and their relatives want revenge and freedom in equal measure. When I think of Israel and its protestations that it only commits mass murder and numerous human rights violations to defend itself I think of the child accused of murdering his parents and begging for mercy because he is an orphan.

Your comment about the "illegal state of Israel" says it all.
It invalidates everything you post, as you are obviously prepared to post lies.

When all else fails, bring out the "Straw man" arguments.
I have made my points and don't need to have the last say.

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎ ~Benjamin Netanyahu~

Originally Posted by Barry

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel'‎ ~Benjamin Netanyahu~

If the Arabs put their weapons down, how would they fight the genocide being committed by the zionists?

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

If the Arabs put their weapons down, how would they fight the genocide being committed by the zionists?

Because the zionists don't want to genocide the Arabs.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

If the Arabs put their weapons down, how would they fight the genocide being committed by the zionists?

I see a lot of Puffery from a couple of folks on this thread.

The Israelis are under attack daily, we had a member from Israel on here some time ago, 16 year old girl who wrote about having 15 seconds to get into cover during Palestinian terror attacks on her parents home.The hate filled venom she was subjected to was horrifying.

The solution is for palestine to change, not Israel, Israel is a legal and recognised democratic nation, palestine is a nation of violence and murder.

Israel has every right to defend it self.

It is true that if palestinians disarmed there would be peace, if Israel disarmed the Palestininas would(as they have stated on several occasions) throw / Drive Israel into the sea etc..

Genocide is not a part of the Israeli doctrine, survival of their own people is.Genocide is a part of palestinian Doctrine, survival of their own people is not.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Because the zionists don't want to genocide the Arabs.

Hi,

then why are they? It brings shame to international Jewry and hatred of Jews on a world wide scale - not unsurprisingly the Jews are blamed for the obscene fascist style behaviour of the Zionists.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

then why are they? It brings shame to international Jewry and hatred of Jews on a world wide scale - not unsurprisingly the Jews are blamed for the obscene fascist style behaviour of the Zionists.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Israel is a democracy, ergo not fascist.

And no, they're not genociding the Arabs. That's why there are no gas chambers, death camps or shooting squads. That's why the IDF drops thousands of leaflets on houses warning of impending bombing attacks. There is no genocide except the one Hamas and other Arab terrorists want to commit against Israel.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

I see a lot of Puffery from a couple of folks on this thread.

The Israelis are under attack daily, we had a member from Israel on here some time ago, 16 year old girl who wrote about having 15 seconds to get into cover during Palestinian terror attacks on her parents home.The hate filled venom she was subjected to was horrifying.

That is a two way street I am afraid. Not all Israeli are saints, many are sinners too. Hamas and others need to rethink their game plan and stop killing innocents, no argument there, but so do the IDF, and please don't say they don't, because they do.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

The solution is for palestine to change, not Israel, Israel is a legal and recognised democratic nation, palestine is a nation of violence and murder.

Israel needs to change too. Palestine was a nation that had existed for a few thousand years and the British broke is apart along tribal lines to make it easier to control. Lets not forget that the Jews in Palestine also committed acts of terror to get what they wanted. They are the ones who blew up two school buses in 1946 full of children between 4 and 10 years old so they could kill the 4 British Soldiers that guarded the children. All sides have blood on their hands.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Israel has every right to defend it self.

So the Palestinians.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

It is true that if palestinians disarmed there would be peace, if Israel disarmed the Palestininas would(as they have stated on several occasions) throw / Drive Israel into the sea etc..

If Israel agreed to help to create a Palestinian homeland then the killing would stop, Hamas have said this numerous times. Israel is illegally occupying lands it should not, and that is a major sticking point. Whilst Israel cannot do this alone they are in a position to make a marled improvement in the situation with a humane and sensible policy of total withdrawal from the occupied territories and then working out a way to unite the Palestinian people. However this also need to co-operation of the Arab states that surround Israel for it to be an effective plan.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Genocide is not a part of the Israeli doctrine, survival of their own people is.Genocide is a part of palestinian Doctrine, survival of their own people is not.

That is factually incorrect. I don't think either side truly wants to commit Genocide.

I used to know Beno Elstien, a minister in several early Israeli Governments. He and his wife, Elsa, survived the death camps (They were Lithuanian Jews) because he was a Nuclear Physicist and she was a Neuro surgeon. Beno and Elsa moved from Israel in 1959 after resigning from the Government. Until his death he lived in Switzerland and would not set foot in Israel. To use his own words, and he should know due to his position as a Minister for Nuclear Affairs and Research.

Originally Posted by Beno Elstien

the Jews of Israel have forgotten their recent history, they kill the Palestinians with impunity and want to remove them from the land just as Hitler want to remove them from Europe. Israel is a bastard state founded by terrorism and maintained by confused Nazi's, they make me ashamed to have been part of their Government and a Jew. We should all live in peace. The Palestinians and the Jews are kindred spirits who used to live together in peace.

I knew Beno for many years, he was a man of integrity, compassion and understanding. He had no tolerance for violence or terrorism by anyone. It was only when speaking on this subject I ever heard him use profanities of any type and it was obvious the way Israel was behaving broke his heart.

There is fault on all sides, and all sides need to step back and take a deep breath then return to the table to resolve this.

Originally Posted by Jim Franklin

That is a two way street I am afraid. Not all Israeli are saints, many are sinners too. Hamas and others need to rethink their game plan and stop killing innocents, no argument there, but so do the IDF, and please don't say they don't, because they do.

Unfortunately peace is not something the Arabs want to accept, and they have proved this on numerous occasions.

Israel needs to change too. Palestine was a nation that had existed for a few thousand years and the British broke is apart along tribal lines to make it easier to control. Lets not forget that the Jews in Palestine also committed acts of terror to get what they wanted. They are the ones who blew up two school buses in 1946 full of children between 4 and 10 years old so they could kill the 4 British Soldiers that guarded the children. All sides have blood on their hands.

Palestine had a small population and limited to no autonomy prior to 1850, if anything the Jews actually did more for Arabic statehood than the Arabs did. What's more the Jewish terrorism, while horrific, began after the Arabs attacked. It doesn't excuse it, but may give cause to it.

So the Palestinians.

Except they continue to attack Israel, earning Israel's response. Give me one instance of unprovoked Israeli aggression.

If Israel agreed to help to create a Palestinian homeland then the killing would stop, Hamas have said this numerous times. Israel is illegally occupying lands it should not, and that is a major sticking point. Whilst Israel cannot do this alone they are in a position to make a marled improvement in the situation with a humane and sensible policy of total withdrawal from the occupied territories and then working out a way to unite the Palestinian people. However this also need to co-operation of the Arab states that surround Israel for it to be an effective plan.

Up until recently most of Israel supported a two state solution. Indeed they unilaterally pulled out of Gaza to see it happen, but of course then Hamas came to power there and attacked Israel. So there is clearly a real fear that by pulling out, Israel will fuel terrorists and allow them to make strikes against Israel. They need serious reassurances from the Palestinian Authority that they will stop terror, and be reassured that they have the ability to do so. Considering the terrorists were actually elected, however, this is clearly not the case. Returning to the 1967 Borders is preferable, but frankly not practical or fair.

That is factually incorrect. I don't think either side truly wants to commit Genocide.

Hamas have frequently used slogans such as 'drive them into the sea', and considering their treatment of civilians, there would probably be genocide regardless of whether Hamas leadership wanted it or not.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Israel is a democracy, ergo not fascist.

And no, they're not genociding the Arabs. That's why there are no gas chambers, death camps or shooting squads. That's why the IDF drops thousands of leaflets on houses warning of impending bombing attacks. There is no genocide except the one Hamas and other Arab terrorists want to commit against Israel.

Hi,

& what a strange model of democracy they hold, do not forget Stalin & Hitler were both elected & so was Blair - it is when they come to power that they change the laws to ensure they remain in power.

The Zionists have created a democracy to suit their fascist style ergo VILE!

Indeed in true fascist style they create a new Waesaw Ghetto and put the indigenous people behind a massive wall to them terrorise them by attacking them with helicopter gun ships and bombing what little infrastructure they have maintained - ergo VILE!

I welcome the day when the Zionists are driven into the sea and honest decent Jews aroun the world bring pressure to bear on these VILE people who have made an industry out of Self Pity and scrounging on guilt as Children of The Holocaust bringing shame on International Jewry and unreasoned hatred on innocent Jews who find Zionism VILE!

I note from an earlier posting:
Quote Originally Posted by Beno Elstien

the Jews of Israel have forgotten their recent history, they kill the Palestinians with impunity and want to remove them from the land just as Hitler want to remove them from Europe. Israel is a bastard state founded by terrorism and maintained by confused Nazi's, they make me ashamed to have been part of their Government and a Jew. We should all live in peace. The Palestinians and the Jews are kindred spirits who used to live together in peace.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Unfortunately peace is not something the Arabs want to accept, and they have proved this on numerous occasions.

So when you are dispossessed of your land, your home, your way of life, herded into a Ghetto behind a huge wall fired on by helicopter gunships, intimidated by heavily armed terrorists, beaten, shot, killed and bulldozed and then leafletted to leave your home so that it can be bombed and destroyed carrying your elderly, infirm and children ot is YOUR fault is it that you get increasingly angry!

Zionist logic is inhuman, fascist, self serving and VILE!

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Except they continue to attack Israel, earning Israel's response. Give me one instance of unprovoked Israeli aggression.

Schattila, Schebroniza when Zionists orchestrated the wholesale massacre of women and children under Ariel Sharron may he rot!

This was an obscene breech of any trust by the Zionist terrorists having negotiated the Palestinians leave the Lebanon to Tripoli.

The bombing of civilians by Zionist terrorists at The King David Hotel. The torure and slaughter of peace keepers captured by the VILE Zionist Terrorists.

The gratuitous sinking of an American comms. vessel by the Zionist terrorists.

& many more instances - look at the VILE damage done to the civilian population of Lebanon by the Zionist terrorists and their American funded Airforce.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Up until recently most of Israel supported a two state solution. Indeed they unilaterally pulled out of Gaza to see it happen, but of course then Hamas came to power there and attacked Israel.

The Zionist land grab was based on a two state policy - the main area of land for the insurgents and a bit behind a wall for the indigenous people to be used as target practice!

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

So there is clearly a real fear that by pulling out, Israel will fuel terrorists and allow them to make strikes against Israel.

Then leave and take your VILE inhuman genocidal Zionism with you. Let Palestine return to muddling along without Zionist killings with Jews, Christians, Muslims and any other idiotic superstition living in peace as they have for cenuries in the Middle East until the VILE Zionists made their land grab and built Ghettos and sponsored massacres and terrorism.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

They need serious reassurances from the Palestinian Authority that they will stop terror, and be reassured that they have the ability to do so.

No they need to leave they have proved beyond any doubt they are unfit VILE CRUEL and genocidal.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Considering the terrorists were actually elected, however, this is clearly not the case. Returning to the 1967 Borders is preferable, but frankly not practical or fair.

If I lived under an EVIL regime of Zionist proportions with daily harrassment from their terrorist forces in a virtual prison I too would VOTE ever more extremely until I had put in place a man of iron who would liberate me and pursue those who tortured me and my people to the ends of the earth bringing JUST retribution for their VILE Zionist behaviour - I would then open my Country to people of all religion and none to live in harmony and follow their superstitions how ere they wished without proselytizing or imposition in tolerance.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Hamas have frequently used slogans such as 'drive them into the sea', and considering their treatment of civilians, there would probably be genocide regardless of whether Hamas leadership wanted it or not.

I hope that you Zionist bretheren will bring boats to carry you and your evil away and SOON before you do more VILE damage and I'd welcome any Jew who wishes to remain in harmony.

I fervently hope that the Palestinians win back their liberty and self determination, their freedom and their dignity and the VILE Zionists leave - then and only then may the Jewish peoples around the world not unfairly bear the brunt of blame for the VILE Zionists and their greed and genocide.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

should one life,cost one hundred,some think so.Should some be allowed to to roam the world and murder,some think so.I think not.Hero's do good.God has laws which apply to all.Even you.beware the wrath of what you fight for.It's there.there is no hidden place,it's seen!Ask forgiveness .it maybe forgiven.If to a god not a state.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

So when you are dispossessed of your land, your home, your way of life, herded into a Ghetto behind a huge wall fired on by helicopter gunships, intimidated by heavily armed terrorists, beaten, shot, killed and bulldozed and then leafletted to leave your home so that it can be bombed and destroyed carrying your elderly, infirm and children ot is YOUR fault is it that you get increasingly angry!

Zionist logic is inhuman, fascist, self serving and VILE!

The Arabs were dispossessed of their land only after they provoked a war with Israel. I find it strange you think that any state can attempt genocide, lose, and then demand their land back after trying to take land that was never theirs!

Schattila, Schebroniza when Zionists orchestrated the wholesale massacre of women and children under Ariel Sharron may he rot!

This was an obscene breech of any trust by the Zionist terrorists having negotiated the Palestinians leave the Lebanon to Tripoli.

Shatila was a massacre carried out by Christian Lebanese Forces, not under the orders, knowledge or allowance of either the IDF or Israel. Granted, the IDF were found partially responsible as they allowed the CLF through the blockade, but I fail to see how Israel is to blame for the actions of terrorists, who aren't even Zionists. And again, not actually an act of aggression. I don't know about Schebroniza, I believe you may need to spellcheck that one.

The bombing of civilians by Zionist terrorists at The King David Hotel. The torure and slaughter of peace keepers captured by the VILE Zionist Terrorists.

I said by Israel, unless the Israelis have invented time travel, I find it difficult to believe they were able to go back in time to before Israel existed to bomb the King David. The group responsible, incidently, was banned as a terrorist organisation by Israel in 1949, so again, not evidence of Israeli aggression.

The gratuitous sinking of an American comms. vessel by the Zionist terrorists.

Firstly, it didn't sink, secondly this was found to be an accident by Israeli forces, and considering that the Israelis did not follow up the attack that makes it a mistake and not aggression, and thirdly (and a little beside the point) the American ship and its Shadow were there in an aggressive capacity to prevent the Israelis using long range missiles.

& many more instances - look at the VILE damage done to the civilian population of Lebanon by the Zionist terrorists and their American funded Airforce.

After consecutive attacks against the Israelis populace by Lebananese and Palestinian terrorists within Lebanon, and in the face of the Lebanese Government's failure to protect Israel from these attacks. An invasion was hardly unexpected, and thanks to the use of Human shields by the PLO and Hezbollah as well as other groups, the high civilian casualty rate can be blamed on them.

The Zionist land grab was based on a two state policy - the main area of land for the insurgents and a bit behind a wall for the indigenous people to be used as target practice!

What land grab? If the Zionists wanted land, wouldn't it make sense to try and take all the land at an early stage, rather than accepting the land allotted to them by the UN?

Then leave and take your VILE inhuman genocidal Zionism with you. Let Palestine return to muddling along without Zionist killings with Jews, Christians, Muslims and any other idiotic superstition living in peace as they have for cenuries in the Middle East until the VILE Zionists made their land grab and built Ghettos and sponsored massacres and terrorism.

And go where Greg? You have consistently failed to address this point.

If I lived under an EVIL regime of Zionist proportions with daily harrassment from their terrorist forces in a virtual prison I too would VOTE ever more extremely until I had put in place a man of iron who would liberate me and pursue those who tortured me and my people to the ends of the earth bringing JUST retribution for their VILE Zionist behaviour - I would then open my Country to people of all religion and none to live in harmony and follow their superstitions how ere they wished without proselytizing or imposition in tolerance.

Umm, first of all, as I've pointed out, the reason the Palestinians are in this mess is because of aggression against Israel, unprovoked I might add, by groups such as Hamas. Also, it seems strange that a people who are supposed to be tired of war and want peace would vote for a party whose only policy was continued war, in spite of Israeli peace offerings. On another note, if you wanted to vote for a country where all religions and peoples could live, why would you vote for an Islamist, Anti-Semitic party?

I fervently hope that the Palestinians win back their liberty and self determination, their freedom and their dignity and the VILE Zionists leave - then and only then may the Jewish peoples around the world not unfairly bear the brunt of blame for the VILE Zionists and their greed and genocide.

They never had any of that to begin with. The only reason Palestine was ever going to exist was because of the same UN resolution which created Israel. If they reject Israel, they reject Palestine.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

& what a strange model of democracy they hold, do not forget Stalin & Hitler were both elected & so was Blair - it is when they come to power that they change the laws to ensure they remain in power.

The Zionists have created a democracy to suit their fascist style ergo VILE!

Yes they were elected, in a democracy which they since changed into a fascist country, fascism as a political system did not bring them to power.

Indeed in true fascist style they create a new Waesaw Ghetto and put the indigenous people behind a massive wall to them terrorise them by attacking them with helicopter gun ships and bombing what little infrastructure they have maintained - ergo VILE!

You do realise Greg that there are terrorists who live behind that wall (which is why they built the wall to keep the suicide bombers out) and they use the helicopters to bomb militant bases and rocket launch sites.

I welcome the day when the Zionists are driven into the sea and honest decent Jews aroun the world bring pressure to bear on these VILE people who have made an industry out of Self Pity and scrounging on guilt as Children of The Holocaust bringing shame on International Jewry and unreasoned hatred on innocent Jews who find Zionism VILE!

Well here you are sanctioning and endorsing genocide of 7 and a half million people. Maybe you're the one who's "VILE!"?

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

The Arabs were dispossessed of their land only after they provoked a war with Israel. I find it strange you think that any state can attempt genocide, lose, and then demand their land back after trying to take land that was never theirs!

The Arabic states who fought Israel did so because a foriegn people flooded into their lands and were intent on creating a state in their midst and in doing so depriving those who had resided on that land for over a millenia the right to their own self-determination.

As for genocide, what utter tosh and wholly untrue; Muslims, Jews and Christians had co-existed pretty peacefully for 100s of years in the middle east. The Arab states neighbouring Israel did not attemp genocide, far from it, they merely sought to prevent the creation of a neighbouring state they had legitimate concerns about.

As for their land, there have been numerous cases of Palestinians being thrown of their land, land they could prove they owned. Of course Israel maintains this policy by refusing the right of return to Palestinians whilst encouraging any Jew to settle in Israel even though they have no connection to the place.

Shatila was a massacre carried out by Christian Lebanese Forces, not under the orders, knowledge or allowance of either the IDF or Israel. Granted, the IDF were found partially responsible as they allowed the CLF through the blockade, but I fail to see how Israel is to blame for the actions of terrorists, who aren't even Zionists. And again, not actually an act of aggression. I don't know about Schebroniza, I believe you may need to spellcheck that one.

Under international law, Israel was under a legal duty to protect the civilian population of the nation it had invade, it failed. Whilst the IDF may not have acutally murdered the 100s involved, they have both a moral and legal responsibility for the deaths.

I said by Israel, unless the Israelis have invented time travel, I find it difficult to believe they were able to go back in time to before Israel existed to bomb the King David. The group responsible, incidently, was banned as a terrorist organisation by Israel in 1949, so again, not evidence of Israeli aggression.

Symantics. What happened to many of the zionist terrorists.....they went on to hold high office in the state of Israel. How ironic that the state that complains of Palestinian "terrorism" was in part founded on it.

After consecutive attacks against the Israelis populace by Lebananese and Palestinian terrorists within Lebanon, and in the face of the Lebanese Government's failure to protect Israel from these attacks. An invasion was hardly unexpected, and thanks to the use of Human shields by the PLO and Hezbollah as well as other groups, the high civilian casualty rate can be blamed on them.

Phew, what a relief. During the Boer war the British Authorities create concentration camps because some of the Boer population supported and gave aid to the Boer fighters - it is so pleasing to know that the deaths of 1,000s was not the fault of the British, it was the fault of the Boer fighters. Now what was that Czech village where the population was slaughtered as a result of the assassination of Henrich.....clearly not the German's fault, they were forced to do that by the Czechs.....that's your logic isn't it.

The Lebanese Govt is known to be weak, kept that way by Israel and Syria, and known to be unable militarily to tackle Hezbollah: Israel's response....mass murder and destruction of civilian infrastructure. The IDF are soley to blame for the civilian deaths and it really is about time that both they and their supporters were man enough to accept that.

Umm, first of all, as I've pointed out, the reason the Palestinians are in this mess is because of aggression against Israel, unprovoked I might add, by groups such as Hamas. Also, it seems strange that a people who are supposed to be tired of war and want peace would vote for a party whose only policy was continued war, in spite of Israeli peace offerings. On another note, if you wanted to vote for a country where all religions and peoples could live, why would you vote for an Islamist, Anti-Semitic party?

Presumably 10,000s of German women deserved to be raped by Soviet forces during WWII because some Germans had voted for the Nazis? With your logic so many historical wrongs are corrected...... The reason the Palestinians are in the mess they find themselves is down to the British, the French, the UN, mass Jewish immigration, neighbouring Arab states and the support of the US. Israel has demonstrated time and time again that it only wants peace on 100% of its own terms; to do such would reward Israel aggression, theft and murder.

If I were a Palestinian, living under pretty brutal occupation and had a choice between the corrupt and ineffective PLO or the party who were not corrupt, were efficient, provided free health clinics but happened to be islamist, I wonder who I would vote for.....probably not the PLO.

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley

The Arabic states who fought Israel did so because a foriegn people flooded into their lands and were intent on creating a state in their midst and in doing so depriving those who had resided on that land for over a millenia the right to their own self-determination.

No they weren't, Palestine, and Palestinian self determination, was secured with the UN treaty, the one they chose to flout in favor of war.

As for genocide, what utter tosh and wholly untrue; Muslims, Jews and Christians had co-existed pretty peacefully for 100s of years in the middle east. The Arab states neighbouring Israel did not attemp genocide, far from it, they merely sought to prevent the creation of a neighbouring state they had legitimate concerns about.

They had only coexisted peacefully because the population had been so low. And yes, genocide was certainly on the table. The chairman of the Arab Higher Committee, the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, was a Nazi sympathiser, who actually asked the Axis powers in help "to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy." He was asking their help in genociding the Jews, and not just the Zionists, the Jews that had been there for hundreds of years as well. What's more rhetoric from a wide variety of places called for the genocide, giving real fears to the Israelis.

As for their land, there have been numerous cases of Palestinians being thrown of their land, land they could prove they owned. Of course Israel maintains this policy by refusing the right of return to Palestinians whilst encouraging any Jew to settle in Israel even though they have no connection to the place.

Over the course of war. What's more this land is now part of Israel, or under occupation. Returning the thousands of Palestinians to those homes in this occupied territory would be A: Difficult at a logistical level in terms of transportation, B: Impossible in terms of working out actual ownership, C: Unwise due to the tentative hold which the Palestinian Authroity has over the current population, and D: Outright dangerous for the average Israeli citizen. Returning the Palestinians to the remaining Palestinian land is simply impossible while the conflict continues. The fact is you have large hostile communities, who right now are safely out of harms way, and while the may be very angry, aren't much of a real threat to any peace process. Moving them into the West Bank (considering Gaza is now out of the question) would be both difficult to achieve and present a real threat to the Israelis, to the Palestinians currently living there, to the peace process and indeed to the refugees themselves.

Under international law, Israel was under a legal duty to protect the civilian population of the nation it had invade, it failed. Whilst the IDF may not have acutally murdered the 100s involved, they have both a moral and legal responsibility for the deaths.

We do have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight from the safety of our computer screens. Were they somewhat responsibile for the safety of the Palestinians and Lebanese inside those towns? Yes, but things on the ground can be very different. On another note, Ariel Sharon resigned over the issue, and an investigation was carried out. If the revrse had happened, and Hamas had massacred Jews while the PLO surrounded towns, there would be no investigation, rather a 'Mission Accomplished' speech, and probably promotions rather than resignations. The fact remians that Israel conducts itself far better than any Palestinian group during conflict.

Symantics. What happened to many of the zionist terrorists.....they went on to hold high office in the state of Israel. How ironic that the state that complains of Palestinian "terrorism" was in part founded on it.

Again, the group was banned in Israel. And both sides have cases to answer for in pre-1948 conflicts, yet it is the Palestinians who have continued to use terrorism.

Phew, what a relief. During the Boer war the British Authorities create concentration camps because some of the Boer population supported and gave aid to the Boer fighters - it is so pleasing to know that the deaths of 1,000s was not the fault of the British, it was the fault of the Boer fighters. Now what was that Czech village where the population was slaughtered as a result of the assassination of Henrich.....clearly not the German's fault, they were forced to do that by the Czechs.....that's your logic isn't it.

The Lebanese Govt is known to be weak, kept that way by Israel and Syria, and known to be unable militarily to tackle Hezbollah: Israel's response....mass murder and destruction of civilian infrastructure. The IDF are soley to blame for the civilian deaths and it really is about time that both they and their supporters were man enough to accept that.

Umm, no, if there are militants firing at soldiers out of your house, you leave the house. You can't expect any army in the world to go through every building checking for civilians before an airstrike or blowing it up, especially if there are snipers firing from its windows. Militants fire out of civilian apartment blocks, they put their bases under hospitals and launch rockets from schoolyards and football fields, they deliberately bring the conflict to civilians to cause casualties to use as evidence against Israel, which is not what the Boers did. That's what Human shield means.

Presumably 10,000s of German women deserved to be raped by Soviet forces during WWII because some Germans had voted for the Nazis? With your logic so many historical wrongs are corrected...... The reason the Palestinians are in the mess they find themselves is down to the British, the French, the UN, mass Jewish immigration, neighbouring Arab states and the support of the US. Israel has demonstrated time and time again that it only wants peace on 100% of its own terms; to do such would reward Israel aggression, theft and murder.

If I were a Palestinian, living under pretty brutal occupation and had a choice between the corrupt and ineffective PLO or the party who were not corrupt, were efficient, provided free health clinics but happened to be islamist, I wonder who I would vote for.....probably not the PLO.

No, and you're just being dramatic. The fact is the Palestinian elections were a referendum on war. Israel had made a peace offering, in fact peace looked in sight, and the Palestinians voted for war. This means that it isn't just the terrorists within the Palestinian territories stirring up trouble with Israel. At a grass roots level, the people want war. I don't quite understand why they then call Israel's invasion of Gaza unjust when the Government they voted for is at war with Israel. Do they think that they can fire rockets at Israeli kindergardens and then not be invaded?

Hi,

it is little wonder that Zionists are universally hated and despised - the tragedy is that world Jewry tends to pick up the tab and the Palestinians pay for the VILE Zionist behaviour with their lives.

Yes I condone the removal of 7 - 70 - 700 - 7,000 or if need be 7,000,000 Zionists from Palestine to be dumped around the world in the same abject povert and the same fear as thery have inflicted on the Palestinians.

I do so hope it happens soon before the Zionist filth cause more suffering for Jews world wide where the behaviour of the terrorist IDF and their Zionist masters has already led to a great escallation in unfair and unreasoned persecution of Jews.

I look forward to the demise of Zionism so that the Jews can live in harmony with those of other superstitions whatever they may be.

You have shown you have no justification for your VILE support of Zionism not even valid excuses however you may spin - shame upon you for the evil you support.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

it is little wonder that Zionists are universally hated and despised - the tragedy is that world Jewry tends to pick up the tab and the Palestinians pay for the VILE Zionist behaviour with their lives.

Yes I condone the removal of 7 - 70 - 700 - 7,000 or if need be 7,000,000 Zionists from Palestine to be dumped around the world in the same abject povert and the same fear as thery have inflicted on the Palestinians.

I do so hope it happens soon before the Zionist filth cause more suffering for Jews world wide where the behaviour of the terrorist IDF and their Zionist masters has already led to a great escallation in unfair and unreasoned persecution of Jews.

I look forward to the demise of Zionism so that the Jews can live in harmony with those of other superstitions whatever they may be.

You have shown you have no justification for your VILE support of Zionism not even valid excuses however you may spin - shame upon you for the evil you support.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Actually I have, I have explained, in detail, why the Palestinians are the aggressors, why they have little claim of traditional ownership, and how they have continued to oppose the peace process. You on the other hand have yet to show me one valid example of Israeli aggression that was not provoked by Palestinian violence. You have also failed to explain why you think the Israelis are against the peace process, considering they have been the ones to make several large peace gestures that were rejected or outright attacked by the Palestinians. What's more, considering your 'solution' to the problem is the forcible destruction of a state and a nation and have considered supporting genocide, then your knowledge and understanding of this situation, as well as your moral character, is highly questionable.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Actually I have, I have explained, in detail, why the Palestinians are the aggressors, why they have little claim of traditional ownership, and how they have continued to oppose the peace process. You on the other hand have yet to show me one valid example of Israeli aggression that was not provoked by Palestinian violence. You have also failed to explain why you think the Israelis are against the peace process, considering they have been the ones to make several large peace gestures that were rejected or outright attacked by the Palestinians. What's more, considering your 'solution' to the problem is the forcible destruction of a state and a nation and have considered supporting genocide, then your knowledge and understanding of this situation, as well as your moral character, is highly questionable.

If you read though the many other threads in this forum where the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been discussed, you'll find a large number of very valid examples of why Israel is the direct aggressor, or is the root cause of Palestinian aggression, in most of the disputes.

Originally Posted by Midas

If you read though the many other threads in this forum where the Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been discussed, you'll find many very valid examples of why Israel is the aggressor in most of the disputes.

The one reply I can remember is that Israel guilty of 'background political manipulation', which was rather vague...

Israel's anti terrorist fence, of 720km in length has only about 3% of it as a wall. Most, (97%) of it, is a chain link fence.
The wall part is used by many as an emotive political tool.
It has proven to be a very good anti-terrorism tool.

Gaza has no walls at all, just fences. These would not have been necessary, had the Gazans chosen to live in peace after Sharon's withdrawal plan.
Land for peace? What a deception that is!

Comparing the Israelis to Nazi Germany and the Warsaw ghettos is an anti-Semitic act as described by the U.N.
Pretending that there is some difference between Israelis, Jews, and Zionists is an attempt to provide oneself with another excuse to show hatred against Jews, in some shape or form. It doesn't really wash.

Originally Posted by Barry

Israel's anti terrorist fence, of 720km in length has only about 3% of it as a wall. Most, (97%) of it, is a chain link fence.
The wall part is used by many as an emotive political tool.
It has proven to be a very good anti-terrorism tool.

Gaza has no walls at all, just fences. These would not have been necessary, had the Gazans chosen to live in peace after Sharon's withdrawal plan.
Land for peace? What a deception that is!

Comparing the Israelis to Nazi Germany and the Warsaw ghettos is an anti-Semitic act as described by the U.N.
Pretending that there is some difference between Israelis, Jews, and Zionists is an attempt to provide oneself with another excuse to show hatred against Jews, in some shape or form. It doesn't really wash.

What dishonest and disingenuous bull sh*t.

Just as a point of interest when did the Zionists ever give a monkey's about the UN they are in flagrant disregard of more Security Council resolutions than the rest of the world put together.

You even try to shelter these evils scum with the contention that Israelis, Jews and Zionists are the same thing - A LIE.

In no way am I nor have I ever been anti Semetic that is a lie and a libel.

With weasel words you try to defend the indefensible - Do NOT lie about what I have said to try to then justify the obscene criminality of Zionism.

NEVER have I likened the Jews to the Nazis - I have unequivocally stated that the Zionist's behaviour in imprisoning the indigenous peoples of Palestine behind wals is exactly what was done to the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto. One has to wonder who has done the greatest long term damage to International Jewry - the Zionists or the Waffen SS.

I do agree with you however that the wall has been used by the Zionists as an emotive political tool - a tool to intimidate and incacerate the Palestinians, a wall that you will note that YOUR much quoted UN has totally repudiated.

I do not welcome genocide and I believe I may have a rather more intimate understanding of such behaviour than you and I hope you nor I ever experience it again - I would however welcome the forced removal of the Zionists from Palestine and just as they did not care what misery and damage the have inflicted on the peoples they have driven out killed, intimidated and massacred I care very little what happens to such scum - best would be that they cease to breed and their genes die out spread like seeds in the wind, never to regroup.

Then and only then is it likely that Jews world wide will be able to, with time, recouperate their reputation and live in harmony with their neighbours released from the evil reputation falsely accrrued by the misunderstanding that the Zionist scum in some obscene way represent Judaism - they do not.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

The one reply I can remember is that Israel guilty of 'background political manipulation', which was rather vague...

Hi,

yes but we are ALL well aware of your opinion of others:

"The public is an ass!"

"People are stupid, which is why we have leaders, unfortunately, now the people can be leaders,"

Your signature speaks volumes of you!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Originally Posted by Barry

Israel's anti terrorist fence, of 720km in length has only about 3% of it as a wall. Most, (97%) of it, is a chain link fence.
The wall part is used by many as an emotive political tool.
It has proven to be a very good anti-terrorism tool.

So because they put "anti-terror infront of the name it's acceptable to you?

Originally Posted by Barry

Gaza has no walls at all, just fences. These would not have been necessary, had the Gazans chosen to live in peace after Sharon's withdrawal plan.
Land for peace? What a deception that is!

Their land, their homes are being taken every day. They are deprived of food, water, communications etc, plus they are being killed. Can you seriously blame them for standing up to Israel?

Originally Posted by Barry

Comparing the Israelis to Nazi Germany and the Warsaw ghettos is an anti-Semitic act as described by the U.N.
Pretending that there is some difference between Israelis, Jews, and Zionists is an attempt to provide oneself with another excuse to show hatred against Jews, in some shape or form. It doesn't really wash.

Are you a moron? When on this thread do we denigrate Jews? Zionism is a force for evil, as is Israel. If you any intellect whatsoever (though you have proven you don't). You would realise to be anti-semitic you have to insult Jews, not the evilness of the Terrorist state of Israel.