Originally Posted by CAGAN

It's so simple, although the problem won't be sorted over night. I have met dozens of self employed people over the years and they all have something in common. Non of them have ever paid hardly any tax. I once met a plumber who's wages were double mine and he paid less tax in a year than I did in a month. This is all down to tax law and enormous loop holes in the system. Surely this can be tightened up in order tax revenue be increased.

Yea, the big flaw in most progressive tax systems, an across the board flat tax system would make tax law more simple. The more simple it is the harder it is for people to find loopholes.

Originally Posted by CAGAN

It's so simple, although the problem won't be sorted over night. I have met dozens of self employed people over the years and they all have something in common. Non of them have ever paid hardly any tax. I once met a plumber who's wages were double mine and he paid less tax in a year than I did in a month. This is all down to tax law and enormous loop holes in the system. Surely this can be tightened up in order tax revenue be increased.

I certainly do!

Taxes need to be decreased for the rest of us to the levels that are paid by the self employed,ie minimal. It is a scandle that approx one third of my wage is stolen every month by the takers,our political masters are nothing more than a bunch of crooks

Originally Posted by Streetwalker

Taxes need to be decreased for the rest of us to the levels that are paid by the self employed,ie minimal. It is a scandle that approx one third of my wage is stolen every month by the takers,our political masters are nothing more than a bunch of crooks

you only think that because those dirty capitalists have brainwashed you for their gain.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

you only think that because those dirty capitalists have brainwashed you for their gain.

At least with capitalism one has the chance to gain. Communism however, only the state gains (and the people in charge). The Soviet Union had 73 years of this system, only for it to end on the scrap heap, along with their slave states, to which I have seen at first hand, and compare it to western democracy - NO CONTEST!

Originally Posted by octopus

At least with capitalism one has the chance to gain. Communism however, only the state gains (and the people in charge). The Soviet Union had 73 years of this system, only for it to end on the scrap heap, along with their slave states, to which I have seen at first hand, and compare it to western democracy - NO CONTEST!

.......If the Soviet Union was communist. Which, of course, it wasn't.

Originally Posted by CAGAN

It's so simple, although the problem won't be sorted over night. I have met dozens of self employed people over the years and they all have something in common. Non of them have ever paid hardly any tax. I once met a plumber who's wages were double mine and he paid less tax in a year than I did in a month. This is all down to tax law and enormous loop holes in the system. Surely this can be tightened up in order tax revenue be increased.

What total ******** you speak. I was self employed for years..and I paid tax. Yes I paid a lot less than when an employee, but then I paid corporation tax (as a registered company) on top of this and when you take into account all the other costs it is not the money making scheme you think it is...

There is so much that can , and should be done, to sort out the national debt, that to attempt to provide a comprehensive answer on a forum such as this, would make Hi Greg's posts look like repartee!

First of all we need to recognise that the private sector produces the nation's wealth, whilst the public sector spends it.

So we need to encourage and support the private sector to create increased national wealth, by supporting expansion and growth through creative tax structures and investment incentives.

Secondly we need to reduce public sector expenditure to initially prevent further increases in the national debt, and subsequently to reduce it. We do this by bringing public sector salaries into line with private sector pay. Reductions in salary of up to 20% for non essential roles, strategic job reductions, a wage freeze for all job holders with salaries over £25,000 for a minimum of two years, and all other public sector wage rises limited to RPI less one percent until public/private sector incomes are comparable. A two year freeze on all pensions entitlements over £50,000 per annum. All pay increases to be dependent on performance.

An increase in the standard rate of VAT to 20%.

The simplification of the tax system, incorporating the amalgamation of income tax and NI, the resulting administrative savings to contribute to the finance removal of any income tax liability on anyone earning less than 50% of the national average wage.

A review of all quangos with a default view of reducing costs to real cost levels of 1998.

No increases in public capital project expenditure of over £20m, until the national debt is reduced by 50%, and then increase to be strictly controlled.

Joint management and worker initiatives to reduce public sector waste, with an incentive structure designed to return up to 15% of audited savings over a certain amount to those who reduce waste and maintain services.

Rigorous restriction on all immigration. All immigrants must be able to communicate effectively in English, be able to support themselves economically for a minimum of three years following arrival, whilst paying UK tax, and have skills and knowledge of economic benefit to the UK. Establish an annual immigration cap. All spoken and written communications to be in English only, with non-English speakers to be responsible for the provision of their own translators and translations.

An immediate implementation of a phased withdrawal of our military forces from Iraq, and a reappraisal of our strategy in Afghanistan.

And of course the removal of a government which has shown itself to be both incompetent and corrupt over the last thirteen years.

Originally Posted by octopus

At least with capitalism one has the chance to gain. Communism however, only the state gains (and the people in charge). The Soviet Union had 73 years of this system, only for it to end on the scrap heap, along with their slave states, to which I have seen at first hand, and compare it to western democracy - NO CONTEST!

Firstly to compare capitalism and communism is odd. Communism is a form of socialism, so shouldn't you compare socialism and capitalism.

Socialism is an economic model that aims to provide economic gains for all of society, Capitalism is designed to provide economic gains for a minority of society and beat the s*** out of the majority. China is one of the most capitalist nations around and they don't follow your idea of pseudo-capitalism.

Also as CS said communism has never existed.

Originally Posted by Jim Franklin

What total ******** you speak. I was self employed for years..and I paid tax. Yes I paid a lot less than when an employee, but then I paid corporation tax (as a registered company) on top of this and when you take into account all the other costs it is not the money making scheme you think it is...

No, your company paid tax. I am talking about income tax, and if you paid that you should have sacked your accountant. Like I said I have met dozens of self employed people of many years and non of them have paid much tax at all.

Originally Posted by Major Sinic

There is so much that can , and should be done, to sort out the national debt, that to attempt to provide a comprehensive answer on a forum such as this, would make Hi Greg's posts look like repartee!

First of all we need to recognise that the private sector produces the nation's wealth, whilst the public sector spends it.

So we need to encourage and support the private sector to create increased national wealth, by supporting expansion and growth through creative tax structures and investment incentives.

Secondly we need to reduce public sector expenditure to initially prevent further increases in the national debt, and subsequently to reduce it. We do this by bringing public sector salaries into line with private sector pay. Reductions in salary of up to 20% for non essential roles, strategic job reductions, a wage freeze for all job holders with salaries over £25,000 for a minimum of two years, and all other public sector wage rises limited to RPI less one percent until public/private sector incomes are comparable. A two year freeze on all pensions entitlements over £50,000 per annum. All pay increases to be dependent on performance.

An increase in the standard rate of VAT to 20%.

The simplification of the tax system, incorporating the amalgamation of income tax and NI, the resulting administrative savings to contribute to the finance removal of any income tax liability on anyone earning less than 50% of the national average wage.

A review of all quangos with a default view of reducing costs to real cost levels of 1998.

No increases in public capital project expenditure of over £20m, until the national debt is reduced by 50%, and then increase to be strictly controlled.

Joint management and worker initiatives to reduce public sector waste, with an incentive structure designed to return up to 15% of audited savings over a certain amount to those who reduce waste and maintain services.

Rigorous restriction on all immigration. All immigrants must be able to communicate effectively in English, be able to support themselves economically for a minimum of three years following arrival, whilst paying UK tax, and have skills and knowledge of economic benefit to the UK. Establish an annual immigration cap. All spoken and written communications to be in English only, with non-English speakers to be responsible for the provision of their own translators and translations.

An immediate implementation of a phased withdrawal of our military forces from Iraq, and a reappraisal of our strategy in Afghanistan.

And of course the removal of a government which has shown itself to be both incompetent and corrupt over the last thirteen years.

Not to mention a reduction in biscuits in the staff canteens !!

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Firstly to compare capitalism and communism is odd. Communism is a form of socialism, so shouldn't you compare socialism and capitalism.

Socialism is an economic model that aims to provide economic gains for all of society, Capitalism is designed to provide economic gains for a minority of society and beat the s*** out of the majority. China is one of the most capitalist nations around and they don't follow your idea of pseudo-capitalism.

Also as CS said communism has never existed.

Either way, it"s for losers! This shows why I say not every race is the same. China is a very different environment from europe where the whole Soviet Communist/Socialist system collapsed. They couldn"t get it to work - not even in seven decades! The reason it didn"t work is because there were no incentives to drive the workforce. Yet China is set to become the largest power by 2050. But would you want to live there? Personaly, give me capitalist west.