Reasons to hate theTories

[Marxist Nutter]

1. Sleaze
2. They are stupid
3. They are (a bunch of convicted )criminals who don't know when to quit
4. They attack the young, weak and poor
5. They destroyed the Economy

Does anybody remember tis bunch of snotty nosed public school morons the last time round? DO we really want this lot back? I mean nothing Labour has done is any worse then this lot, they wrote the book on dishonest, corrupt and incompetent government.

[Citizen Smith]

i'm in no position to remember the last time.... but I remember my uncle telling me how she had milk vans up and down the country stopped. They used to race them and stuff. Maybe not that important, but it just stuck in my mind.

[DTE]

And LA to the defense of the tories in 3...2...1...


Anyone who remembers the Tory years will not be swayed by new Cameron. I'm old enough to remember school milk being scrapped, CS. Thing is, I can't really see any way for them NOT to win the next election, even if Dave was caught doing a Max Mosley tommorow he'd still look a better prospect than Gordon. I agree with your asessment of them Marxist, but they'll be forming our next government regardless.

[JAMC]

I think I've said at every election since 2001 that it's Labour's to lose - and this time they surely will.

Frankly, a plague on both their houses.

[Expounder]

I think I've said at every election since 2001 that it's Labour's to lose - and this time they surely will.

Frankly, a plague on both their houses.

Last Thursday Labour retained it's seat in Salfords Irwell riverside ward council by election which is in Hazel Blears constituency.

Is this an indication voters with their feet on the ground ?

[JAMC]

Last Thursday Labour retained it's seat in Salfords Irwell riverside ward council by election which is in Hazel Blears constituency.

Is this an indication voters with their on the ground ?

BATES Chris Conservative 189 MIDDLETON Steven Ian Liberal Democrats 293 MITCHELL Rob Green 125 MOLD Matt Labour 606 O’DWYER Duran Benjamin UK Independent 123 TUMULTY Gary British National Party 276 Electorate: 9,201 Majority 313 Void votes: 7 Turnout 17.5%

No. It's an indication that the vote was an irrelevance and that you're clutching at straws.

http://www.salford.gov.uk/council/elections/results.htm

[JAMC]

And LA to the defense of the tories in 3...2...1...

He's not posted here yet... What's going on?!?!?

[TellMeMore]

And LA to the defense of the tories in 3...2...1...


Anyone who remembers the Tory years will not be swayed by new Cameron. I'm old enough to remember school milk being scrapped, CS. Thing is, I can't really see any way for them NOT to win the next election, even if Dave was caught doing a Max Mosley tommorow he'd still look a better prospect than Gordon. I agree with your asessment of them Marxist, but they'll be forming our next government regardless.

It's great how people always bring this one up.
Yes, Margaret Thatcher did stop free school milk. Thatcher the snatcher.
Somebody remind me, when was it that the Labour government of the last 12 years reinstated it? Can't remember the date exactly............

[JAMC]

It's great how people always bring this one up.
Yes, Margaret Thatcher did stop free school milk. Thatcher the snatcher.
Somebody remind me, when was it that the Labour government of the last 12 years reinstated it? Can't remember the date exactly............

I consider it to be quite a minor political indiscretion in comparison to some of the other things she did whilst PM (the milk incident happened during Ted Heath's govt). Far more notorious as far as I'm concerned are things like the poll tax, the miner's strike and 3 million unemployed.

Any statue they put up of her better come equiped with a urinal - it'll be more hygenic than allowing people to follow their natural instincts and defecate on the statue's head.

[LA]

1. Sleaze
2. They are stupid
3. They are (a bunch of convicted )criminals who don't know when to quit
4. They attack the young, weak and poor
5. They destroyed the Economy

Does anybody remember tis bunch of snotty nosed public school morons the last time round? DO we really want this lot back? I mean nothing Labour has done is any worse then this lot, they wrote the book on dishonest, corrupt and incompetent government.

1. Oh yes, because Labour hasn't been burnt by Sleaze recently...
2. Gordon Brown thinks he abolished boom and bust...
3. All parties have convicted criminals. I recently sent Jacques a nice List of some Labour criminals
4. They attack the poor? The 10p tax band scrapage attacked the poor.
5. They destroyed the Economy? Have you been around recently? This is totally Labour

And LA to the defense of the tories in 3...2...1...

Sorry it took so long

He's not posted here yet... What's going on?!?!?

Sorry, I have been busy





People often complain about Margaret Thatcher and her abolishment of school milk. She did not control the budget. She was an education minister. She either scrapped school milk or schools. She choose to scrap milk to build more schools

I for one agree with this and think anyone who dislikes Thatcher for this reason needs a cold bath.

[Marxist Nutter]

1. Oh yes, because Labour hasn't been burnt by Sleaze recently...
2. Gordon Brown thinks he abolished boom and bust...
3. All parties have convicted criminals. I recently sent Jacques a nice List of some Labour criminals
4. They attack the poor? The 10p tax band scrapage attacked the poor.
5. They destroyed the Economy? Have you been around recently? This is totally Labour

The short memory of the New Conservative

[LA]

The short memory of the New Conservative

What I wrote was entirely correct.
Rather than posting a pointless statement, why not repair a rebuttal?

[Marxist Nutter]

What I wrote was entirely correct.
Rather than posting a pointless statement, why not repair a rebuttal?

not my job to defend Labour so i won;t. I will point out that your defense consists entirely of 'well Labour did it as well' - not great, LA, is it?

You do not deny any charges against the Tories, so essentially I read you as agreeing with my point that the Conservatives are at least just as bad (if not worse) than Labour, so saw no need for a rebuttal.

[LA]

not my job to defend Labour so i won;t. I will point out that your defense consists entirely of 'well Labour did it as well' - not great, LA, is it?

You do not deny any charges against the Tories, so essentially I read you as agreeing with my point that the Conservatives are at least just as bad (if not worse) than Labour, so saw no need for a rebuttal.

Let's look at your list.

Sleaze
Both the Labour Party and the Conservative party have been through their fair share of sleaze. Locally at least, it is not tradition for the Conservatives to engage in sleaze campaigns. Our local Conservative association refuses to publish accusations or sleaze campaigns. We publish the truth; shamefully the Liberal Democrats don't follow the same example.

They are stupid:
I completely 100% disagree

They are Convicted Criminals:
There are criminals in all parties.

They attack the young, weak and poor
I disagree. In terms of political parties, they do a damn site better for student politics. In terms of the poor, it wasn't them who removed the 10% tax band. It was Thatcher who sold council houses cheaply to the poor.

They destroyed the economy
Thatcher resolved the recession back in her day, and after it our economy came out much stronger. It is tradition that Labour Government's end in devaluation and a budgetary crises whether it is 74 or 51. The fact is, the Labour Party just cannot run an economy.

[Marxist Nutter]

Let's look at your list.

Sleaze
Both the Labour Party and the Conservative party have been through their fair share of sleaze. Locally at least, it is not tradition for the Conservatives to engage in sleaze campaigns. Our local Conservative association refuses to publish accusations or sleaze campaigns. We publish the truth; shamefully the Liberal Democrats don't follow the same example.

So just as bad as Labour, then?

They are stupid:
I completely 100% disagree

So what? Did you see the article I linked to on this point btw?

They are Convicted Criminals:
There are criminals in all parties.

I have personally never heard of any Labour politician in my lifetime going to Prison, let alone senior ones, but do correct me if I'm wrong.

They attack the young, weak and poor
I disagree. In terms of political parties, they do a damn site better for student politics. In terms of the poor, it wasn't them who removed the 10% tax band. It was Thatcher who sold council houses cheaply to the poor.

Two words - Poll Tax

They destroyed the economy
Thatcher resolved the recession back in her day, and after it our economy came out much stronger.

see 1992 recession she caused

It is tradition that Labour Government's end in devaluation and a budgetary crises whether it is 74 or 51. The fact is, the Labour Party just cannot run an economy.

Humm and the Tories did better when exactly?

[Expounder]

[QUOTE=JAMC;71057]No. It's an indication that the vote was an irrelevance and that you're clutching at straws.



I'm not saying Labour is off the hook but this is an encouraging sign for Labour. Where were all of these outraged voters?.

[JAMC]

[QUOTE=Expounder;71170]

No. It's an indication that the vote was an irrelevance and that you're clutching at straws.



I'm not saying Labour is off the hook but this is an encouraging sign for Labour. Where were all of these outraged voters?.

With a 17.5% turnout, you could say that they were anywhere but at the polling stations. Can you blame them when the choice consists of....

• Thatcherism
• Thatcherism Lite
• Eco-Warriors
• Racists

Claiming that the frustrated voter having no outlet is a good thing for either the Labour Party or the country as a whole is incredibly myopic.

[JAMC]

It was Thatcher who sold council houses cheaply to the poor.

This was a short termist policy to swell the middle class (and therefore tory votes) during the 80's.

The long term consiquences of this policy for our generation (I think we're close enough in age to be part of the same generation...?? ) are proving to be what MN said - damaging to the young, by driving them into rental poverty or sink-estates.

[Opinionated]

Are you suggesting?

[JacquesMagique]

With a 17.5% turnout, you could say that they were anywhere but at the polling stations. Can you blame them when the choice consists of....

• Thatcherism Tories?
• Thatcherism Lite Lab?
• Eco-Warriors Greens?
• Racists BNP?

Claiming that the frustrated voter having no outlet is a good thing for either the Labour Party or the country as a whole is incredibly myopic.

What about the libs?

[LA]

What about the libs?

fence balancers?

[JacquesMagique]

fence balancers?

I wish people would stop saying this. Its really not true.

Edit: plus you just said on that other thread that you believe that besides their position on the EU, in temrs of radicalism and refomr you feel you would be best placed in the lib dems.

[Citizen Smith]

I wish people would stop saying this. Its really not true.

Edit: plus you just said on that other thread that you believe that besides their position on the EU, in temrs of radicalism and refomr you feel you would be best placed in the lib dems.

the lib dems are pobs the most left wing party with any chance.

[LA]

I wish people would stop saying this. Its really not true.

Edit: plus you just said on that other thread that you believe that besides their position on the EU, in temrs of radicalism and refomr you feel you would be best placed in the lib dems.

I will explain what I mean.

The current Liberal Democratic party are useless and there European Policy is dangerous. However, they are radical and believe in reform. Which means that I would have a better chance getting [some] my policy ideas through a Liberal Party than the Conservative Party.

[Expounder]

[QUOTE=JAMC;71176]

With a 17.5% turnout, you could say that they were anywhere but at the polling stations. Can you blame them when the choice consists of....

• Thatcherism
• Thatcherism Lite
• Eco-Warriors
• Racists

Claiming that the frustrated voter having no outlet is a good thing for either the Labour Party or the country as a whole is incredibly myopic.

I'm a pragmatic Labour supporter, I'm not looking for the Holy Grail and I know that Labour at the moment is a diminished Democratic Socialist party. But within that party there are genuine Democratic Socialists. While they are there, there is hope for the future.

The Tory party is the party of the rich, backed financially by the rich, a party that pays lip service to ordinary working people but will make them, and services they have to use, the first target for cuts which are bound to come.

There will be no compassion when these cuts are made they will be arbitary and cruel. They will blame Labour for them and not the thieving
bankers and the crooks who are all part of the financial system that the Tories supported and still support and in time who will accept the re-instatment of the system which brought the world to it's knees.

My main hope is that Cameron never gets his hands on power because if you think things are bad now, they will become a sight worse for the man in the steet through the deliberate introduction of policies designed to finish the job that Thatcher started.

The link below expresses my opinion on the current situation better than I could it's worth a read.


A climate of loathing towards all MPs is bad for democracy | Andrew Rawnsley | Comment is free | The Observer

[Marxist Nutter]

I'm a pragmatic Labour supporter, I'm not looking for the Holy Grail and I know that Labour at the moment is a diminished Democratic Socialist party. But within that party there are genuine Democratic Socialists. While they are there, there is hope for the future.

r

Sorry Expounder but I am sick of hearing this. I know there is some truth in it; however when I was a candidate for the Lib Dems I found a very large number of Labour socialists voting for me. One showed me the letter Prescott sent round to try and stop the old guard leaving on mass, then tore it up and said 'I am Labour no more'. Thus i am not convinced there are that many socialists left in the party (you probably have less socialists in the whole labour party than the Libs do in their student movement alone) Also the socialists of the Labor party have had ten years to reverse Blairism and have failed.

Time to go Green, me thinks

[Expounder]

I think I've said at every election since 2001 that it's Labour's to lose - and this time they surely will.

Frankly, a plague on both their houses.

With respect JAMC, it's people that make irresponsible negative comments of this nature that are a real threat to democracy, apathy is no answer to a problem.

If something is recognised as broke you roll your sleeves up and fix it. To improve the running of the house of commons is not a big deal, the old system was left to fester too long. Best put it all behind us and get on with creating an enhanced Commons.

[Marxist Nutter]

With respect JAMC, it's people that make irresponsible negative comments of this nature that are a real threat to democracy, apathy is no answer to a problem.

If something is recognised as broke you roll your sleeves up and fix it. To improve the running of the house of commons is not a big deal, the old system was left to fester too long. Best put it all behind us and get on with creating an enhanced Commons.

Shame Blair went back on his agreement with the LibDems to introduce Google Page Ranking, isn't it?

[Expounder]

Sorry Expounder but I am sick of hearing this. I know there is some truth in it; however when I was a candidate for the Lib Dems I found a very large number of Labour socialists voting for me. One showed me the letter Prescott sent round to try and stop the old guard leaving on mass, then tore it up and said 'I am Labour no more'. Thus i am not convinced there are that many socialists left in the party (you probably have less socialists in the whole labour party than the Libs do in their student movement alone) Also the socialists of the Labor party have had ten years to reverse Blairism and have failed.

Time to go Green, me thinks

Hi MN, me thinks you are stretching your pragmatism to the limit, by all means vote Green but they are hardly likely to be making vital environmental decisions in two decades. The problem with them is that what they say is right but they come over as one policy party, and could only be regarded at best as an environmental pressure group in parliament.

There are people within the Labour party that can turn things around, they may not be your definition of Socialists but they have an understanding and an empathy for the people who work for a living.

The alternative is Cameron and the Tories who not only have no empathy for ordinary people but will pursue policies designed to dismantle what is left of our NHS and education system and go even further down the road of reducing the value of pensions and pension schemes, and revitalise the discredited banking system.

There are still only two tribes in society and I have to go with the party which is my interests warts and all, till death do us part.

[Marxist Nutter]

Hi MN, me thinks you are stretching your pragmatism to the limit, by all means vote Green but they are hardly likely to be making vital environmental decisions in two decades. The problem with them is that what they say is right but they come over as one policy party, and could only be regarded at best as an environmental pressure group in parliament.

There are people within the Labour party that can turn things around, they may not be your definition of Socialists but they have an understanding and an empathy for the people who work for a living.

The alternative is Cameron and the Tories who not only have no empathy for ordinary people but will pursue policies designed to dismantle what is left of our NHS and education system and go even further down the road of reducing the value of pensions and pension schemes, and revitalise the discredited banking system.

There are still only two tribes in society and I have to go with the party which is my interests warts and all, till death do us part.

I'll remind you that the Greens are a very real force in the EU parliament and that's what we are voting for on June 4th

[Expounder]

Shame Blair went back on his agreement with the LibDems to introduce Google Page Ranking, isn't it?

This could be the answer to the present problem but it's not the complete panacea to politics as the Italians found out.

Lets wait for the Kelly report see what his committee comes up with.

[Marxist Nutter]

How about this?

[Expounder]

I'll remind you that the Greens are a very real force in the EU parliament and that's what we are voting for on June 4th

Apologies MN I was refering to the House of Commons. Good luck with the Greens on June 4th.

[JAMC]

What about the libs?

If Labour and the Tories and Coke and Pepsi, the Lib Dems are R Whites Lemonade - no-one really dislikes it, but it never sells in huge numbers because it's so middle-of-the-road.

I imagine voting for the lib dems is a bit like walking into a car showroom and driving out in a Vauxhall Vectra 1.6 with no optional extras. The process itself may be quite exciting, but the end result is as dreary as an episode of Last of the summer wine. I guess I'll know whether that's correct or not soon enough - as things stand I'll be voting lib dem at the general (and possibly local) elections, simply because the silver lining of Google Page Ranking is about the only half-decent thing any of the main three espouse.

[LA]

Expounder, I am sorry but your anti-Conservative crap is exactly that. Crap.

The Conservatives would not dismantle the NHS rather they would reform it (in other words, unlike Gordon Brown, they won't throw money at it, they will make sure the money is being spent efficiently)

What makes the Green Party annoying is they cling to Environmental myths about climate change.

[JAMC]

I will explain what I mean.

The current Liberal Democratic party are useless and there European Policy is dangerous. However, they are radical and believe in reform. Which means that I would have a better chance getting [some] my policy ideas through a Liberal Party than the Conservative Party.

Why would you even want to attempt to put radical ideas to a party that is fundamentally based around the concepts of tradition and continuity?

[Marxist Nutter]

Expounder, I am sorry but your anti-Conservative crap is exactly that. Crap.

The Conservatives would not dismantle the NHS rather they would reform it (in other words, unlike Gordon Brown, they won't throw money at it, they will make sure the money is being spent efficiently)

What makes the Green Party annoying is they cling to Environmental myths about climate change.

Everybody else clings to the myth that capitalism increases wealth, and there is more evidence disproving that than theories disproving climate change. I fact NOBODY Disputes climate change . The question is do humans play a role in it? The answer humans play no role at all is absurd, so the whole argument is how great an impact humans have, not really the stuff of myth

[LA]

Everybody else clings to the myth that capitalism increases wealth, and there is more evidence disproving that than theories disproving climate change. I fact NOBODY Disputes climate change . The question is do humans play a role in it? The answer humans play no role at all is absurd, so the whole argument is how great an impact humans have, not really the stuff of myth

I didn't think I needed to explain this any further, apparently I do.

We see across the media that humans are causing all this climate change, polar bears are dying, ice caps are melting... Its all the fault of humans.

It's not true. The current increase in temperature is completely normal. Polar Bears are not dying due to the warmth, ice caps are melting but will replenish in due time (it follows a cycle).

All of this climate change is caused by humans is rubbish.

Why would you even want to attempt to put radical ideas to a party that is fundamentally based around the concepts of tradition and continuity?

There are a lot of Conservatives who are radical and believe in radical reform. Thatcher was one of the more prominent ones.

There are loads of different types of Tories. The ones who cling onto Tradition, the ones who cling onto radicalism and the ones who like a bit of both.

I personally like both.

[Marxist Nutter]

I didn't think I needed to explain this any further, apparently I do.

We see across the media that humans are causing all this climate change, polar bears are dying, ice caps are melting... Its all the fault of humans.

It's not true. The current increase in temperature is completely normal. Polar Bears are not dying due to the warmth, ice caps are melting but will replenish in due time (it follows a cycle).

All of this climate change is caused by humans is rubbish.

#

So the destruction of S.A rain Forrest the size of Wales every day has no effect at all, I suppose

[Opinionated]

I didn't think I needed to explain this any further, apparently I do.

We see across the media that humans are causing all this climate change, polar bears are dying, ice caps are melting... Its all the fault of humans.

It's not true. The current increase in temperature is completely normal. Polar Bears are not dying due to the warmth, ice caps are melting but will replenish in due time (it follows a cycle).

All of this climate change is caused by humans is rubbish.

Maybe I'm missing something but I thought the scientific concensus wasn't that climate change was man made so much as man accelerated?

[JAMC]

I know that Labour at the moment is a diminished Democratic Socialist party.

I cannot consider any party that is satisfied with the first-past-the-post system, and an unelected house of lords, to be "democratic".

I also cannot consider any party that does not commit to collective ownership of the means of production (clause 4 if I'm not mistaken) to be in any way "socialist".

But within that party there are genuine Democratic Socialists. While they are there, there is hope for the future.

There haven't been any socialists in positions of influence in the Labour party since the early 90's - and very few, if not none would have joined since.

The Tory party is the party of the rich

It is also the party of the naturally capitalistic, darwinistic and aspirational - we should not forget that if everyone voted according to the size of their wallets we would get very different electoral results.

The link below expresses my opinion on the current situation better than I could it's worth a read.

A climate of loathing towards all MPs is bad for democracy | Andrew Rawnsley | Comment is free | The Observer

I heard something similar on the radio the other day - my only answer is that it's time to call a general election and flush the system.

[Marxist Nutter]

Maybe I'm missing something but I thought the scientific concensus wasn't that climate change was man made so much as man accelerated?

Not only that but the (carbon) cycle to which LA refers is hardly an exact thing so the parameters of what is 'normal' are very hard for anyone other than LA to determine.

[LA]

#

So the destruction of S.A rain Forrest the size of Wales every day has no effect at all, I suppose

Don't be stupid... Forest is spelt with one r.

Okay lets see its affect. The rain forest has been destroyed. Carbon Dioxide has increased drastically since the late 1990s onwards. However, the temperatures since 1998 haven't changed at all. They have remained the same for 10 years.

The initial temperature increase is entirely normal. We are in a warm period. Nothing more.

[Marxist Nutter]

Don't be stupid... Forest is spelt with one r.

Okay lets see its affect. The rain forest has been destroyed. Carbon Dioxide has increased drastically since the late 1990s onwards. However, the temperatures since 1998 haven't changed at all. They have remained the same for 10 years.

The initial temperature increase is entirely normal. We are in a warm period. Nothing more.

So you seriously think that deforestation has no affect on the climate?

[DTE]

If Labour and the Tories and Coke and Pepsi, the Lib Dems are R Whites Lemonade - no-one really dislikes it, but it never sells in huge numbers because it's so middle-of-the-road.

Wasn't R-Whites' advertising slogan "I'm a secret lemonade drinker"? Quite fitting for lib dems too, as its not something you'd admit to in public. With our politics going the way of the Americans (ie. presidential), Nick Clegg I think has a chance of taking the Lib Dems forward. If he shared a debate stage with Gordon and Dave, he'd wipe the floor with them. In the General I'll be going Lib Dem, for Google Page Ranking, and that they've come out of this expenses scandal pretty clean.

[JAMC]

With respect JAMC, it's people that make irresponsible negative comments of this nature that are a real threat to democracy, apathy is no answer to a problem.

There is a big difference between being fully aware of the options available but deeming all of them to be unsuitable, and simply being too disinterested to participate at all. Why would someone with ~ 1900 posts on a politics forum be considered apathetic?

If something is recognised as broke you roll your sleeves up and fix it.

Everyone on this forum will tell you that change is needed - myself included. But we will never agree on what that change should be.

To improve the running of the house of commons is not a big deal, the old system was left to fester too long. Best put it all behind us and get on with creating an enhanced Commons.

It is not the day-to-day running of the commons that agitates me. It is the mechanism we use to deliver the participants into that system, a mechanism which artificially limits the choice of candidates and warps the result to amplify government majorities, that is the root cause of the problems now being dragged through the Independent.

If the posibility of a Tory-UKIP-BNP governing coalition is the price to be paid to ensure that my vote is cast on a level playing field, then I am more than willing to accept it.

[JAMC]

There are still only two tribes in society and I have to go with the party which is my interests warts and all, till death do us part.

This ultimately is the problem. What do you do when both choices are rotten?

I am sick of being told that I should effectively vote for the least-worst option.

You may not be able to see what the Labour party has become, but the penny will drop eventually. My 80 year old nan, a life-long Labour voter, responded with "Never again" when I asked her about voting at the local elections. She voted for a party that contained politicians even I can respect - Bevan, Attlee, Benn, even Michael Foot (we need more party leaders that look like crackpot amoral scientists). The current bunch of centerist, cheshire-grinning clones no-longer inspire a sense of belief because politics has now become a science of vote winning.

The core question of the "New" labour reformation was "What is the purpose of a political party?", unfortunately the answer that came back was "to get elected". The correct answer would have been "To change society for the better". Until that principle is once again adopted by a mainstream party, none of them can count on my vote.

[JAMC]

The Conservatives would not dismantle the NHS rather they would reform it (in other words, unlike Gordon Brown, they won't throw money at it, they will make sure the money is being spent efficiently)

Privatisation by any other name or guise is still privatisation.

I may have asked you this before, but do you seriously think that if the NHS (for which read "public sector health provision") didn't exist today, that the tories would create it?

[JAMC]

There are loads of different types of Tories. The ones who cling onto Tradition, the ones who cling onto radicalism and the ones who like a bit of both.

Unless you mean traditionalism applied radically, the two terms are (conceptually at least) mutually exclusive, because nothing truly radical can be traditional.

[LA]

Privatisation by any other name or guise is still privatisation.

I may have asked you this before, but do you seriously think that if the NHS (for which read "public sector health provision") didn't exist today, that the tories would create it?

The Conservatives would never create it, I accept that. However, they wouldn't remove it.

Unless you mean traditionalism applied radically, the two terms are (conceptually at least) mutually exclusive, because nothing truly radical can be traditional.

Sorry, I didn't explain this well.

I meant a balance between radicalism and traditionalism.
In other words, traditional: I would never change the law lords, house of lords, parliament sovereignty, parliamentary government, constitutional monarchy etc

I would radically reform the NHS, Education, Law and Order, Foreign Affairs etc

I haven't explained this brilliantly, but hopefully you get my meaning.
Keep tradition where possible, radically reform what needs reforming.