Originally Posted by The Silver Eagle

Lately I've been seeing documentaries either on the computer
or popping up on the TV. Even Animal Planet has it's "Lost Tape's."

I have a friend who's father is obsessed with the fact that the government
knows of the Roswell crash and they have contact with aliens. His idea of
it gets crazy. He thinks they're going to implant chips in us soon and control
us completely to the use of being a modern slave.

He also thinks aliens came and were responsible for 9/11 not the terrorists.

With all due respect to your friend's father, all I can think to say is that there's one born every minute!!

All I think of other possible life out in the universe is that we are somehow
not alone and way beyond even farther there is something out there somewhere.


What do you think? Do you think there's such thing as aliens or creatures
that others believe exist on this planet or came to this planet even thousands
of years ago?

I've seen one documentary how way back then they believe the ancients
built the Pyramids and structures because of anothers influence and in some
artifacts it depicts other beings or strange visitations from above.

I have absolutely no doubt that there is alien life of one form or another out in the universe, on perhaps tens or hundreds of millions of planets scattered across every galaxy there is, some of it might well be millions of years more advanced than we are. However to suggest that such alien life has a/ been able to master the concept of the faster than light speeds which would be necessary to visit earth, or b/ even if they could, that they'd be the slightest bit interested in picking our particular sun, one of in excess of 100 billion in our galaxy alone, to see if there's a planet with life on it, is little more than sheer unfounded speculation - or perhaps I should say wishful thinking from people who like to believe that the earth and us humans are in any way special and worthy of visiting.

As for ancient monuments and other structures being the work of aliens, well,

Why do only some people see them? Why do only a few get probed? The way these shows make it seem you'd think the universe was teeming with them. Have you ever looked up into the night sky and seen a ship? Do they only turn their lights on for some people like firemen turn on their siren's or honk their horns for some special children?

I think the idea of intelligent life on other planets is very cool. But i also think if it were the case we would have a lot to be afraid of. They may not be the friendly government contract types we hear about from conspirists. I think it foolish not to believe that with all the possible life sustaining planets out there that there wouldn't be some form of life out there, but we tend to have this anthropomorphism problem. We seem to think everything is like us.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Why do only some people see them?

You mean only the attention seekers or the publicity seekers or those with some form of mental instability or those who want to earn money from writing about them?

Originally Posted by Midas

You mean only the attention seekers or the publicity seekers or those with some form of mental instability or those who want to earn money from writing about them?

I didn't really want to say that but yes. I had an experience many years ago that left me afraid to go to sleep. I didn't tell anyone at all for six years, couldn't sleep etc... I found an article on abductions that explained that people who have been abducted in real life often have dreams of alien abductions.

I was never so relieved in my life.

It got me thinking though as I would of never told anyone of my experience mostly because i think of people who report such experience seem to be nut bars. But the article shed light on it and i see them a bit differently now. You can have experiences that seem so real that defy logic until you find the missing pieces that help explain it.

In short: No.

The odds of there being alien life in the universe, either in the past or future are incredibly high. The odds that such life would co-exist in the relative eye-blink of time that we as a species exist, or that they would have a.)the ability or b.)the desire to contact us are incredibly small.

Its mostly mentals and those who sport headwear made from tin foil who believe otherwise.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Why do only some people see them? Why do only a few get probed?

Sorry, were you passed over?

There is less evidence of aliens than there evidence of God.
But Midas believes aliens exist.
No surprises there, then.

Just a quick off the cuff comment, not wanting to go off topic.
I don't believe in aliens.

Originally Posted by Barry

Sorry, were you passed over?

There is less evidence of aliens than there evidence of God.
But Midas believes aliens exist.
No surprises there, then.

Just a quick off the cuff comment, not wanting to go off topic.
I don't believe in aliens.

Passed over? I don't believe that there are little green men in flying saucers any more then i believe there is a god.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Passed over? I don't believe that there are little green men in flying saucers any more then i believe there is a god.

Maybe you don't believe in a sense of humour, either.

Originally Posted by The Silver Eagle

Lately I've been seeing documentaries either on the computer
or popping up on the TV. Even Animal Planet has it's "Lost Tape's."

I have a friend who's father is obsessed with the fact that the government
knows of the Roswell crash and they have contact with aliens. His idea of
it gets crazy. He thinks they're going to implant chips in us soon and control
us completely to the use of being a modern slave.

He also thinks aliens came and were responsible for 9/11 not the terrorists.


All I think of other possible life out in the universe is that we are somehow
not alone and way beyond even farther there is something out there somewhere.


What do you think? Do you think there's such thing as aliens or creatures
that others believe exist on this planet or came to this planet even thousands
of years ago?

I've seen one documentary how way back then they believe the ancients
built the Pyramids and structures because of anothers influence and in some
artifacts it depicts other beings or strange visitations from above.

I believe, Im married to one

Originally Posted by Barry

There is less evidence of aliens than there evidence of God.

Hi,

How can you have less than zero?

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Originally Posted by Streetwalker

I believe, Im married to one

She said that too!

Seriously, is it just arrogant of us to assume we are the only life when look at the scale of the universe? I love the way that our science fiction produces aliens as 'less than human' when frankly 'human' itself is not much to aspire to when we look to history

Originally Posted by Barry

Sorry, were you passed over?

There is less evidence of aliens than there evidence of God.
But Midas believes aliens exist.
No surprises there, then.

Just a quick off the cuff comment, not wanting to go off topic.
I don't believe in aliens.

Perhaps you'd care to explain why you don't think that amongst the undoubted billions of planets around hundreds of billions of stars, there's not one single solitary other than earth which has any form of life? Don't you think to believe we're the only one is arrogance in the extreme?

By the way, my definition of 'alien' in this context is any form of life, from single celled bacteria upward, not originating on the earth.

Originally Posted by Barry

Maybe you don't believe in a sense of humour, either.

Sorry tone is often lost in the written word. I will watch more closely for the subtleties.

Originally Posted by Midas

I have absolutely no doubt that there is alien life of one form or another out in the universe,

"Absolutely no doubt"??

How do you know that to be so precise that you have absolutely no doubt? That is a pretty strong conviction, isn’t it?

Do you know something that the rest of us don’t know? What have you seen? Where have you been? Absolutely no doubt has to have more substance to it than faith or a hunch, doesn’t it?

I have absolutely no doubt that God exist and that is unacceptable to you, or at least you have said as much. Is my absolute no doubt somehow inferior to your absolute no doubt?

I honestly don’t know how rare life is in the universe. It could be very rare or it could be very common. Maybe one of the days we will know or maybe we won’t. I suspect it is more of a chance of maybe we won’t.

The average distance between stars in our galaxy is like the distance between two grains of sand 80 miles apart so the idea that we will go “star trekking across the universe” is pretty remote. If all the stars in our galaxy were the size of a grain of sand then a 30 ton dump truck would hold all the stars. The galaxy would be about the size of the US and half the grains of sand would be in Kansas with the other half of the dump truck load spread out in bands covering the rest of the US. The distances are enormous.

Right now the only means we have of space craft propulsion is chemical energy, which is very low energy and bulky to store. It takes a rocket ship with chemical energy the enormous size of Saturn 5B just to get three humans to the moon, no less to the nearest star.

I am mentioning this because it doesn’t look like humans will ever be able to do interstellar travel unless there is some “warp drive” yet to be discovered, which is the premise of all Science Fiction books and movies but has no foundation in reality. However, the human race doesn’t have to worry because you have absolute no doubt conviction that life exists elsewhere. As soon as you share with us your proof for this conviction then all of Humanity will know.

Originally Posted by flash

"Absolutely no doubt"??

How do you know that to be so precise that you have absolutely no doubt? That is a pretty strong conviction, isn’t it?

Do you know something that the rest of us don’t know? What have you seen? Where have you been? Absolutely no doubt has to have more substance to it than faith or a hunch, doesn’t it?

Absolutely no doubt, none at all. There are three reasons for it; firstly I think it extremely arrogant to think that we're on the only planet in the universe which has life; secondly, we already know that the basic amino acid building blocks for life exist in space; thirdly, even if there's a hundred billion to one chance against life happening, that still leaves the opportunity for there to be billions of places where life could have started over billions of years of time.

I have absolutely no doubt that God exist and that is unacceptable to you, or at least you have said as much. Is my absolute no doubt somehow inferior to your absolute no doubt?

They're totally different, it's like comparing chalk and cheese. There's absolutely zero physical evidence for a god and there's no necessity for a god other than as an ontological construct in man's mind; the whole concept is complete conjecture based on nothing other than faith. Whereas we know life exists here on earth and we know there are the correct basic building block chemicals for life existing in space. You can't compare the two things.

I honestly don’t know how rare life is in the universe. It could be very rare or it could be very common. Maybe one of the days we will know or maybe we won’t. I suspect it is more of a chance of maybe we won’t.

The average distance between stars in our galaxy is like the distance between two grains of sand 80 miles apart so the idea that we will go “star trekking across the universe” is pretty remote. If all the stars in our galaxy were the size of a grain of sand then a 30 ton dump truck would hold all the stars. The galaxy would be about the size of the US and half the grains of sand would be in Kansas with the other half of the dump truck load spread out in bands covering the rest of the US. The distances are enormous.

Right now the only means we have of space craft propulsion is chemical energy, which is very low energy and bulky to store. It takes a rocket ship with chemical energy the enormous size of Saturn 5B just to get three humans to the moon, no less to the nearest star.

I am mentioning this because it doesn’t look like humans will ever be able to do interstellar travel unless there is some “warp drive” yet to be discovered, which is the premise of all Science Fiction books and movies but has no foundation in reality. However, the human race doesn’t have to worry because you have absolute no doubt conviction that life exists elsewhere. As soon as you share with us your proof for this conviction then all of Humanity will know.

I'll agree that having evidence for and seeing face to face are of course two very different things. As I've already mentioned we know from chemical analysis of meteorites and of the dust from the tail of a comet that the correct amino acids for life already exist in space, and we know from experiment that these can synthesise naturally from the most basic and common of chemicals. We also know from spectral analysis that those same chemicals are present in the dust clouds surrounding other stars. Regardless of the distance between stars though, which as you rightly say will of course preclude travel, maybe for ever but who knows the future, there are thought to be at least 2.e+22 (20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) of them in the universe. Given that even with our relatively unsophisticated instruments we've already detected 450 planets circling just the nearest 2,000 stars to our own, the odds of there being other planets on which the correct conditions for life to start from those amino acids is enormous. Do your own maths.

But no, unless life, even the remains of long dead bacterial life, is found within our solar system, or perhaps an organisation like SETI picks up unambiguous intelligent and decodable signals from space, we'll never know with the certainty of having seen with our own eyes that other life does exist. However we've still not actually seen protons or electrons or photons or a dozen other sub-atomic particles, but we have absolutely no doubt they exist based on empirical evidence - where's the difference between that and empirical evidence of life; other than a mental acceptance of one but a denial of the other?

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

How can you have less than zero?

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Minus 1!

Originally Posted by Midas

Absolutely no doubt, none at all. There are three reasons for it; firstly I think it extremely arrogant to think that we're on the only planet in the universe which has life; secondly, we already know that the basic amino acid building blocks for life exist in space; thirdly, even if there's a hundred billion to one chance against life happening, that still leaves the opportunity for there to be billions of places where life could have started over billions of years of time.

Maybe it is arrogant to try to reinforce an unsustainable view, rather than admit a mistake, and qualify your doubt. It would be easier to edit your post rather than continue to try to support your false certainty, but this is what arrogance is like.

Originally Posted by Barry

Maybe it is arrogant to try to reinforce an unsustainable view, rather than admit a mistake, and qualify your doubt. It would be easier to edit your post rather than continue to try to support your false certainty, but this is what arrogance is like.

I don't think it is arrogant to believe in life beyond our planet. The basic building blocks for life have been found in space, even within our own solar system. I think the probability of life is extremely high. What i find interesting is that a person who believes in god without any proof other then a man in a dress with a book telling them there is one can't accept such a highly probable assumption based on quite a bit of proof. I do understand that faith can create blind spots to other ideas but this one takes the cake i think. You must like cake.

Statistically speaking the existence of other intelligent life in the universe is almost certain (and by 'almost' I mean that the chances we're the only ones is so insignificant that they're irrelevant). Have they visited us? Probably not.

Originally Posted by Barry

Maybe it is arrogant to try to reinforce an unsustainable view, rather than admit a mistake, and qualify your doubt.

Ahh, you mean like with people who're constantly saying there's a god.....

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I don't think it is arrogant to believe in life beyond our planet. The basic building blocks for life have been found in space, even within our own solar system. I think the probability of life is extremely high. What i find interesting is that a person who believes in god without any proof other then a man in a dress with a book telling them there is one can't accept such a highly probable assumption based on quite a bit of proof. I do understand that faith can create blind spots to other ideas but this one takes the cake i think. You must like cake.

I don't think it is arrogant to believe in life beyond our planet C.L.T. but "without any doubt" - that's a different story.
I DO like cake crazylilting!
However... I don't listen to men in dresses. (I assume that you are talking of some of the organised church's clergy). I rarely see them, in any case.

Originally Posted by Barry

Minus 1!

Hi,

WRONG - in terms of evidence of gods you can not have less than zero - it then becomes a positive proof against the superstitions.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

WRONG - in terms of evidence of gods you can not have less than zero - it then becomes a positive proof against the superstitions.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Darn those weird mathematics, Greg!

I have never seen an alien or a space craft, but I believe they exist. I believe they've been here also. To think that the only way they can get here is to travel millions of miles through hundreds of years, is misguided at best. Who's to say that they don't have an underground colony on the moon?

Originally Posted by Stimpy

I have never seen an alien or a space craft, but I believe they exist. I believe they've been here also. To think that the only way they can get here is to travel millions of miles through hundreds of years, is misguided at best. Who's to say that they don't have an underground colony on the moon?

An underground colony of aliens on the moon? Dream on - how would they have got there in the first place? OK, I'd agree that the odds are very much in favour of aliens - or rather some other life form - existing on some other planets around some other stars, but as for ever having visited here, bearing in mind the laws of physics, the distances involved, and the probability of a planet around our particular sun being chosen as a visiting place among the estimated 10^22 to 10^24 stars in the universe, the realistic answer has to be as close to zero as it's possible to get.

Originally Posted by Midas

bearing in mind the laws of physics,

You mean bearing in mind OUR laws of physics? Don't assume that we are the all knowing, all seeing race in the universe. Has it ever occurred to that you that maybe they know something we don't? I'm not saying they do, all I'm saying is that you may want to keep your mind open to that possibility.

Originally Posted by Stimpy

You mean bearing in mind OUR laws of physics? Don't assume that we are the all knowing, all seeing race in the universe. Has it ever occurred to that you that maybe they know something we don't? I'm not saying they do, all I'm saying is that you may want to keep your mind open to that possibility.

OK, point well taken, the laws of physics as we know them. However I'm still left wondering why, of all the stars in the universe, even in our own galaxy; even stars which of a type that might have habitable planets around them - and we're still talking hundreds of billions - would aliens be likely to visit this particular one, just an average mid-life star with no noticeable differences to billions of others and located some 2/3rds of the way out from the centre of a pretty average galaxy.......

Originally Posted by Midas

I'll agree that having evidence for and seeing face to face are of course two very different things. As I've already mentioned we know from chemical analysis of meteorites and of the dust from the tail of a comet that the correct amino acids for life already exist in space, and we know from experiment that these can synthesise naturally from the most basic and common of chemicals. We also know from spectral analysis that those same chemicals are present in the dust clouds surrounding other stars. Regardless of the distance between stars though, which as you rightly say will of course preclude travel, maybe for ever but who knows the future, there are thought to be at least 2.e+22 (20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) of them in the universe. Given that even with our relatively unsophisticated instruments we've already detected 450 planets circling just the nearest 2,000 stars to our own, the odds of there being other planets on which the correct conditions for life to start from those amino acids is enormous. Do your own maths.

But no, unless life, even the remains of long dead bacterial life, is found within our solar system, or perhaps an organisation like SETI picks up unambiguous intelligent and decodable signals from space, we'll never know with the certainty of having seen with our own eyes that other life does exist. However we've still not actually seen protons or electrons or photons or a dozen other sub-atomic particles, but we have absolutely no doubt they exist based on empirical evidence - where's the difference between that and empirical evidence of life; other than a mental acceptance of one but a denial of the other?

Having some of the chemicals necessary for life is not the same as having life. Not by a long shot.

As far as I know, and I am well read on this kind of stuff, I know of absolutely no proof of life outside earth. The bacteria remains you refer to is not conclusive proof. They think there is a chance there might be remains of bacteria in meteorites, which is not the same as knowing. The scientists have seen what they think may be bacteria “fossils” but they can’t be sure.

As far as stats goes that doesn’t mean anything. Until we observe life outside the earth then it is nothing more than speculation.

Now if I was a betting man I would bet that life exist outside of earth but I don’t know for sure and neither do you not withstanding your “absolute certainty”.

If life does exist and it is abundant then it is probably at a low level. Advance life requires a good bit of luck.

For advance life to evolve a planet needs millions of years of stability and even then there may be mass extinctions like the earth had on several occasions. The mass extinctions can come from geological upsets or come from meteorites. The planet Jupiter helps to sweep the solar system of comets and meteorites that could disrupt life on earth. No telling if other solar systems have the same protection.

There are other factors too. For a planet to be stable it needs enough gravity to hold in an atmosphere. Earth has a tremendous iron core because it is postulated that another large body collided with the earth during formation emerging the two iron cores to make one strong enough to hold the atmosphere. The iron core is also very important because it sets up a protective magnetic field from radiation. Mars and Venus are two examples of what happens when a planet is not dense enough to do it right.

For advance life a planet needs to also have stable climate or else an organism develops and then goes extinct due to rapid climate changes. The earth has a relatively stable climate because the moon keeps the planet from wobbling resulting in the ability of organism to have the time necessary to evolve to higher life forms.

Everything else could be right on a planet but if there is no moon to hold the planet steady higher life will probably never form.

As we are finding out evolving to a technological society does not guarantee that you can go “star trekking across the universe”. You still have to deal with the enormous distances between the stars and the simple fact that you can’t travel faster than light.

Originally Posted by flash

Having some of the chemicals necessary for life is not the same as having life. Not by a long shot.

I wasn't actually meaning to imply otherwise, however the very fact that we know from experimentation that these amino acids can be synthesised from the very simplest of chemicals - going back to Stanley Miller's classic experiments of the early 1950s - and that it's now possible to synthesise self-reproducing cells in the laboratory from those very same amino acids - the work of Craig Venter in 2009/10 - the odds of there being a natural connection between the two are very short, especially when the bilions of years of time involved and the vast size of space there is for random chance reactions to occur, are factored in.

As far as I know, and I am well read on this kind of stuff, I know of absolutely no proof of life outside earth. The bacteria remains you refer to is not conclusive proof. They think there is a chance there might be remains of bacteria in meteorites, which is not the same as knowing. The scientists have seen what they think may be bacteria “fossils” but they can’t be sure.

As far as stats goes that doesn’t mean anything. Until we observe life outside the earth then it is nothing more than speculation.

Now if I was a betting man I would bet that life exist outside of earth but I don’t know for sure and neither do you not withstanding your “absolute certainty”.

If life does exist and it is abundant then it is probably at a low level. Advance life requires a good bit of luck.

For advance life to evolve a planet needs millions of years of stability and even then there may be mass extinctions like the earth had on several occasions. The mass extinctions can come from geological upsets or come from meteorites. The planet Jupiter helps to sweep the solar system of comets and meteorites that could disrupt life on earth. No telling if other solar systems have the same protection.

There are other factors too. For a planet to be stable it needs enough gravity to hold in an atmosphere. Earth has a tremendous iron core because it is postulated that another large body collided with the earth during formation emerging the two iron cores to make one strong enough to hold the atmosphere. The iron core is also very important because it sets up a protective magnetic field from radiation. Mars and Venus are two examples of what happens when a planet is not dense enough to do it right.

For advance life a planet needs to also have stable climate or else an organism develops and then goes extinct due to rapid climate changes. The earth has a relatively stable climate because the moon keeps the planet from wobbling resulting in the ability of organism to have the time necessary to evolve to higher life forms.

Everything else could be right on a planet but if there is no moon to hold the planet steady higher life will probably never form.

As we are finding out evolving to a technological society does not guarantee that you can go “star trekking across the universe”. You still have to deal with the enormous distances between the stars and the simple fact that you can’t travel faster than light.

For once I agree with you, however statistically I still say that "absolute certainty" is the phrase to use in connection with life elsewhere in our galaxy and in the universe as a whole!

Originally Posted by Midas

I wasn't actually meaning to imply otherwise, however the very fact that we know from experimentation that these amino acids can be synthesised from the very simplest of chemicals - going back to Stanley Miller's classic experiments of the early 1950s - and that it's now possible to synthesise self-reproducing cells in the laboratory from those very same amino acids - the work of Craig Venter in 2009/10 - the odds of there being a natural connection between the two are very short, especially when the bilions of years of time involved and the vast size of space there is for random chance reactions to occur, are factored in.

Life has not been created yet by humans.

For once I agree with you, however statistically I still say that "absolute certainty" is the phrase to use in connection with life elsewhere in our galaxy and in the universe as a whole

I am sorry but there is no "absolute certainty" unless something is observed. We have just barely got to the point where we have somewhat credible evidence of a few other planets, no less life outside of Earth.

Your "absolute certainty" is nothing more than your personal wishful thinking.

All we know right now is that life exist on earth. We speculate that the chemistry of life exist throughout the universe so therefore it proabably exist elsewhere but we don't know for sure because we have not observed it.

For all we know the universe is sterile of life except here on earth. I don't think that is the case but I really don't know.

You and I will probably die of old age before humans get any proof.

My faith tells me that when I die all these things will be answered. When you die you just die if you are lucky or go to hell if you are unlucky. Maybe all things will be revealed to you in hell but don't count on it. The Devil is not exactly known to accommodate his patrons. Something to look forward to, right?

Originally Posted by flash

Life has not been created yet by humans.





I am sorry but there is no "absolute certainty" unless something is observed. We have just barely got to the point where we have somewhat credible evidence of a few other planets, no less life outside of Earth.

Your "absolute certainty" is nothing more than your personal wishful thinking.

All we know right now is that life exist on earth. We speculate that the chemistry of life exist throughout the universe so therefore it proabably exist elsewhere but we don't know for sure because we have not observed it.

For all we know the universe is sterile of life except here on earth. I don't think that is the case but I really don't know.

You and I will probably die of old age before humans get any proof.

My faith tells me that when I die all these things will be answered. When you die you just die if you are lucky or go to hell if you are unlucky. Maybe all things will be revealed to you in hell but don't count on it. The Devil is not exactly known to accommodate his patrons. Something to look forward to, right?

Amazing how you refuse to accept the possibility of life anywhere else in the universe without absolute observable proof, then babble on about faith, afterlife, hell and the devil with absolute certainty, even though there is absolutely no evidence, no probability, no odds, nothing that you can point to that would be any reason to believe such nonsense.
The probable odds that life exists eslewhere are overwhelming given the number of stars, possible rocky watery planets etc.
There's more probability that pink teapots orbit the earth than there is that hell or the devil exists. At least we know that pink teapots exist, and the earth exists, and that solid man made objects do orbit the earth.

Originally Posted by Stimpy

I have never seen an alien or a space craft, but I believe they exist. I believe they've been here also. To think that the only way they can get here is to travel millions of miles through hundreds of years, is misguided at best. Who's to say that they don't have an underground colony on the moon?

Hi,

for heaven's sake that was a sci-fi book written in about 1970 wasn't it Capricorn Rising or was that the film that used the trailer of them making the landing on Mars in a warehouse and for publicity claimed they used the same set as the American Government had for the moon landing!!

That was when all the drivel about man never going to the moon started by the con men and Snake Oil vendors.

David Icke on his web site for idiots, the gullible and life's failed has got so confused that he has amalgamated the two theories and a bit of John Wyndham's (was it The Secret People? living and farming mushrooms under the surface?)

It is such drivel I haven't looked it up but gone on memory from about 50 years ago!

It is astonishing that an abuser, liar and con artist like David Icke has managed to dupe so many people with his sick making hypocracy and self serving lies and defamation.

Lizards, a hollow moon that is a spaceship stuck in orbit and the gullible listen to the creepy chappie.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

It's all true I telt ye.... I've just come back from Mars Base Alpha-Bravo Omega Twa.... to ressuply the staff ice cream Soda Machines..... Shhhh!! Capt Piccard tell me to keep this under me hat, so don't go repeating this..... The Vulcan Ambassador, Sub-Commander T'Pols dad is coming to visit Mars Base in a few months time.

So we all have to get stuck in the dusters, polishers and Harpic to get all those bends cleaned out....

..again.... I jest really....

Originally Posted by Midas

OK, point well taken, the laws of physics as we know them. However I'm still left wondering why, of all the stars in the universe, even in our own galaxy; even stars which of a type that might have habitable planets around them - and we're still talking hundreds of billions - would aliens be likely to visit this particular one, just an average mid-life star with no noticeable differences to billions of others and located some 2/3rds of the way out from the centre of a pretty average galaxy.......

Point well taken also Midas. I guess our main difference is that you ask "why", while I ask "why not" I guess I want it more than you huh? :]

Originally Posted by Greg Lance-Watkins

Hi,

for heaven's sake that was a sci-fi book written in about 1970 wasn't it Capricorn Rising or was that the film that used the trailer of them making the landing on Mars in a warehouse and for publicity claimed they used the same set as the American Government had for the moon landing!!

That was when all the drivel about man never going to the moon started by the con men and Snake Oil vendors.

David Icke on his web site for idiots, the gullible and life's failed has got so confused that he has amalgamated the two theories and a bit of John Wyndham's (was it The Secret People? living and farming mushrooms under the surface?)

It is such drivel I haven't looked it up but gone on memory from about 50 years ago!

It is astonishing that an abuser, liar and con artist like David Icke has managed to dupe so many people with his sick making hypocracy and self serving lies and defamation.

Lizards, a hollow moon that is a spaceship stuck in orbit and the gullible listen to the creepy chappie.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Firstly: In 1970 I was 6 years old.

Second: While I have heard of David Icke, I have never heard or read him

Third: I can put my point across without resorting to name calling.

Have a nice day.