It might help if you made a specific point in relation to what you've posted Eastern Spirit, rather than simply listing a series of facts, otherwise there's nothing to discuss. A look through the forum archives will show that posts such as this rarely attract any replies.

I'll just throw out a contentious point here then and say **** China to hell.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

I'll just throw out a contentious point here then and say **** China to hell.

China is a great country, but it is a brutal dictatorship.

Human rights are unheard of, and the only reason that China is so powerful is through the use of what is nearly slave labour.

At one time China could have easily have conquered the world (at a time when we in Britain were living in caves and still grappling with such philosophical issues as Fire=Hot) they chose not to. I wonder what the world look like now if they had had a more colonial outlook?

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

China is a great country, but it is a brutal dictatorship.

Human rights are unheard of, and the only reason that China is so powerful is through the use of what is nearly slave labour.

That's pretty much par for the course any time you allow communists to run anything.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Human rights are unheard of

China?s Double Standard: Hosting the 2008 Paralympics but Aborting Disabled Babies - Opinionated News

YouTube - Shameful Treatment Of China's Disabled Exposed

"We are working to improve the quality of the population"

Originally Posted by Tantal

That's pretty much par for the course any time you allow communists to run anything.

Even though China is NOT communist, they are most definitely capitalist.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Even though China is NOT communist, they are most definitely capitalist.

Nope. They have just injected some capitalist principles into their communism. Their brutal dictators have learned from the Soviet Union that communism will ultimately fail unless you have some capitalism to keep the cash flowing.

Originally Posted by Tantal

Nope. They have just injected some capitalist principles into their communism. Their brutal dictators have learned from the Soviet Union that communism will ultimately fail unless you have some capitalism to keep the cash flowing.

Neither China or the former USSR have ever been communist.

They both began the journey to communism, but neither ever reached Communism.

OK guys lets settle this question

China is Capitalist.
However
They justify being capitalist through an appeal to Marx

Therefore they are not communist (by any definition of the term - even theirs) however they would argue they are 'on the road to communism'.

Marx argued that Feudal societies must first become capitalist societies in order to make the transition to socialism.

The Chinese position is that they are a feudal nation that has to develop capitalism as fast as possible as a necessary step toward communism. Therefore this line of thinking betrays the notion that China is socialist or communism as even in their own rhetoric they are a capitalist nation that is striving for communism.

Hope that clears things up

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

OK guys lets settle this question

China is Capitalist.
However
They justify being capitalist through an appeal to Marx

Therefore they are not communist (by any definition of the term - even theirs) however they would argue they are 'on the road to communism'.

Marx argued that Feudal societies must first become capitalist societies in order to make the transition to socialism.

The Chinese position is that they are a feudal nation that has to develop capitalism as fast as possible as a necessary step toward communism. Therefore this line of thinking betrays the notion that China is socialist or communism as even in their own rhetoric they are a capitalist nation that is striving for communism.

Hope that clears things up

Exactly, but clearly China will not drop capitalism to create a communist govt.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Neither China or the former USSR have ever been communist.

They both began the journey to communism, but neither ever reached Communism.

Typical Commie line. Anytime communism fails, it's always because it wasn't 'true' communism.......as 'true communism' would have been paradise that nobody could ever reject.

Originally Posted by Tantal

Typical Commie line. Anytime communism fails, it's always because it wasn't 'true' communism.......as 'true communism' would have been paradise that nobody could ever reject.

Typical ignorant right winger.


The USSR was never a communist state, that us a historical fact.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Typical ignorant right winger.


The USSR was never a communist state, that us a historical fact.

Oh, I see. So the new line is that communism has never failed because it's never actually been tried? Good luck getting anyone on-board with that line of crap.....well, except Nutter. He's convinced that if only everyone will try HIS brand of communism, that gumdrops and lollipops will be delivered to every house by unicorns.

Both the USSR and China attempted Communism early on, the Soviets had War Communism, the Chinese the GLF. Both failed miserably. I would agree that while the societies afterward were never truly Communist, the people who ran them would be described as Communist.

I'm not sure what this thread is aimed at saying but anyway...

I make a prediction that the Chinese will develop an alphabet largely because the character writing is complex and doesn't suit a keyboard.

Also, a book I love dealing with the Chinese cultural revolution is Red Azalea.

Beautiful prose and a great story.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

I'll just throw out a contentious point here then and say **** China to hell.

Same thing with billions of Chinese saying **** US and UK to hell.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

China is a great country, but it is a brutal dictatorship.

Human rights are unheard of, and the only reason that China is so powerful is through the use of what is nearly slave labour.

Human rights in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea? Why is US not doing what it thought is right for China.

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

Same thing with billions of Chinese saying **** US and UK to hell.

Billions?

Isn't there only 1.3 Billion people in china, that's hardly Billions.

And China is still a brutal dictatorship with hundreds of millions below the poverty line and a country that bullies others into submission while either passively of actively supporting other brutal dictatorships.

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

At one time China could have easily have conquered the world (at a time when we in Britain were living in caves and still grappling with such philosophical issues as Fire=Hot) they chose not to. I wonder what the world look like now if they had had a more colonial outlook?

Communist governments were not meant for the colonization of other small and weak countries, they are for the protection of their historical and sovereign rights (e.g. Tibet, Mongolia, etc..).

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

Human rights in Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea? Why is US not doing what it thought is right for China.

Yes, I do agree that you can compare China to those countries on human rights.

Human rights in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.amnestyusa.org/china/page.do?id=1011134

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Yes, I do agree that you can compare China to those countries on human rights.

Human rights in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China Human Rights

But if he's posting from China he won't be able to see those pages because of internet censorship...then again, he probably wouldn't be able to see this website.

Originally Posted by Tantal

Oh, I see. So the new line is that communism has never failed because it's never actually been tried? Good luck getting anyone on-board with that line of crap.....well, except Nutter. He's convinced that if only everyone will try HIS brand of communism, that gumdrops and lollipops will be delivered to every house by unicorns.

The basic task of the nation, the People’s Republic of China (PROC) in the years to come is to concentrate its effort on socialist modernization. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism- Leninism and Mao ZedongThought, the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and follow the socialist road, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize industry, agriculture, national defence and science and technology step by step to turn China into a socialist country with a high level of culture and democracy.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

But if he's posting from China he won't be able to see those pages because of internet censorship...then again, he probably wouldn't be able to see this website.

I don't think so...

Internet in the People's Republic of China

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

The basic task of the nation, the People’s Republic of China (PROC) in the years to come is to concentrate its effort on socialist modernization. Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism- Leninism and Mao ZedongThought, the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and follow the socialist road, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize industry, agriculture, national defence and science and technology step by step to turn China into a socialist country with a high level of culture and democracy.

Yeah but your 'socialist modernisation' is really just moving into a more and more capitalist society. And face it, China is far from a democracy and Marx was a rose-tinted glasses dreamer, Lenin was a power hungry bastard and Mao was a full on psychopath.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Billions?

Isn't there only 1.3 Billion people in china, that's hardly Billions.

That's only in China. How about the number of Chinese in Asia, Latin American countries and other continents?

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

I don't think so...

Internet in the People's Republic of China

Yeah, it mentions the censorship. How China arrests those who post anti-government views on blogs, and China denies many of its people the right to view websites critical of China, such as amnesty international.

Here's a better link;

Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

That's only in China. How about the number of Chinese in Asia, Latin American countries and other continents?

Most of the estimates I've seen of Chinese people in the world are a max of 1.5 Billion.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Yeah but your 'socialist modernisation' is really just moving into a more and more capitalist society. And face it, China is far from a democracy and Marx was a rose-tinted glasses dreamer, Lenin was a power hungry bastard and Mao was a full on psychopath.

The Revolution of 1911 led by Dr Sun Yat-sen (Taiwan) abolished the feudal monarchy and gave birth to the Republic of China.

Chinese people overthrew in 1949 the rule of imperialism, feudalism and bureaucrat capitalism ( Dr Sun Yat-sen) and won the great victory of the new-democratic revolution and founded the People's Republic of China. Thereupon the Chinese people took state power into their own hands and became masters of the country.

The colonialist Christopher Columbus, Ferdinand Magellan, the adventurer and James Cook, military expansionist, and Adam Smith the free market philosopher were the early promoters of early imperialism.

Imperialism creates and maintained an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states. It promotes monopolies, which are efficient in the total exploitation of individual interests.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Yeah, it mentions the censorship. How China arrests those who post anti-government views on blogs, and China denies many of its people the right to view websites critical of China, such as amnesty international.

Here's a better link;

Internet censorship in the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why then Former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger praising China and congratulated the Chinese people on their "unbelievable accomplishments" over the past 60 years, saying that China's modern transformation is an "extraordinary historic event."


Kissinger: China's "unbelievable accomplishments" and "extraordinary transformation is a historic event."

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Most of the estimates I've seen of Chinese people in the world are a max of 1.5 Billion.

Alright. It's less than 2 billions of Chinese people.

Originally Posted by Eastern Spirit

The Revolution of 1911 led by Dr Sun Yat-sen (Taiwan) abolished the feudal monarchy and gave birth to the Republic of China.

Chinese people overthrew in 1949 the rule of imperialism, feudalism and bureaucrat capitalism ( Dr Sun Yat-sen) and won the great victory of the new-democratic revolution and founded the People's Republic of China. Thereupon the Chinese people took state power into their own hands and became masters of the country.

No, it looks like you've been fed the propaganda on the revolution. The 1911 revolution had almost nothing to do with Sun Yat Sen, he was in America at the time, and there were no members of his revolutionary group in Wuhan (where it began) at the time. The revolution was mostly thanks to the army, who after being exposed as part of revolution attempt thanks to the unplanned explosion in Wuhan, officers were forced to fight back.

Now moving on from 1911, overthrowing the monarchy did not create a modern China, in fact it devolved as warlords and local power men took over. It wasn't until 1927 when the Nationalists took power in Nanking that any real national China emerged. The CCP themselves had nothing to do with the revolution of 1911, and almost nothing to do with the unification in 1927, they only in a very small number at the time and under nationalist command until 1925. You'll note that Sun Yat Sen did not live to see the unification under the nationalists.

Now if we want to talk about imperialism how about we talk about China's oppression of Taiwan and Tibet? How about how it uses economic and military power to coerce countries in the region to support it internationally? And what about its funding of terrorists in Africa and backing of Burma and North Korea?