The funny thing is, this fine. Most Israelis actually want a Palestinian state, and I would say the majority are willing to give up some land to get it. What's causing problems is the other demands placed on Israel. I can't see this state getting any real independence however, Israel still needs to be able to defend itself, and it's unlikely to include Gaza.
My opinion is that Israel should deal exclusively with Fatah and the West Bank to find a peaceful solution for the West Bank, if Hamas tries to come to the table, they walk away. Hamas cannot be dealt with in its current form.

I herby unilaterly recognise the state the palestinians have destroyed for themselves, it is in a terrible state and they have only themselves to blame, i cant help but laugh at em!!!

I would like the international community to return the borders to how they were in 1948.

The problem is that the Palestinians would want an army to defend themselves from the Israelis, but the Israelis would not accept that and possibly re-invade Palestine again.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...s/israel04.jpg

"Palestinians want UN to unilaterally recognise State" - I hope they get it too, and as Kiwi says, with the position of the borders at the point when Israel has its legal territory first defined.

I think we should accept that 1948 borders aren't happening, the Palestinians blew their chance at that when they attacked Israel. 1967 ish is more realistic, but I doubt it will look exactly like then (again, these borders were also blown by the Arabs in their aggression). I'm against Palestine having an army for some time, because whichever way you looks at it, the result will be simply a new PLO.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

I would like the international community to return the borders to how they were in 1948.

The problem is that the Palestinians would want an army to defend themselves from the Israelis, but the Israelis would not accept that and possibly re-invade Palestine again.

This post defies belief.
OK, suppose Israel go back to the 1948 borders?
How will this be acceptable to the Arabs? It wasn't acceptable to them in 1948 - why should it be acceptable to them in 2009? It was the Arabs that immediately attacked Israel when she was created by UN charter, and the UN did not make any effort to defend her. 1 in 100 of Israelis died in that initial war of independence. Were there deaths in vain, so that the defeated can just walk back in again?
Israel have, historically, only taken military action when they are under attack, or under threat of attack. (Iraq nuclear reactor).

but the Israelis would not accept that and possibly re-invade Palestine again.

The Israelis have never invaded Palestine.
The Israelis want peace, but not at any cost, why should they give up land they legitimately won in a defensive war?
If the Gazans stop launching rockets and border attacks, there will be no problem for them from the Israelis.

Please remember that the Gazans also have a border with Egypt. Israel allow thousands of tons of stuff into Gaza, but Egypt do not help their Muslim brothers at all. They keep their border locked down.

Originally Posted by Barry

This post defies belief.
OK, suppose Israel go back to the 1948 borders?
How will this be acceptable to the Arabs? It wasn't acceptable to them in 1948 - why should it be acceptable to them in 2009? It was the Arabs that immediately attacked Israel when she was created by UN charter, and the UN did not make any effort to defend her. 1 in 100 of Israelis died in that initial war of independence. Were there deaths in vain, so that the defeated can just walk back in again?

I think everyone realises that the 1948 borders are unrealistic in a practical sense, yet they were the borders which the new state of Israel were given and which under normal circumstances should have stayed within. Of course it wasn't acceptable to the Palestinians at the time, no more than if a new country was declared to exist in the middle of say the USA would be acceptable to the Americans! I know it's pointless going over historical ifs and buts, however having been granted their own country, Israel should have been damned grateful for it rather than immediately trying to grab more!

Israel have, historically, only taken military action when they are under attack, or under threat of attack. (Iraq nuclear reactor).
The Israelis have never invaded Palestine.
The Israelis want peace, but not at any cost, why should they give up land they legitimately won in a defensive war?
If the Gazans stop launching rockets and border attacks, there will be no problem for them from the Israelis.

There have been many instances when Israel has taken land belonging to other sovereign nations without there being a real military threat; recent history is littered with examples of their land grabs in which to build further Jewish settlements. As for Gaza, rocket attacks etc, this has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere in the forum, but the bottom line is that the Palestinians were forced into taking extreme action to try to prevent the loss of their land and lives because of Israel's repeated military actions.

Please remember that the Gazans also have a border with Egypt. Israel allow thousands of tons of stuff into Gaza, but Egypt do not help their Muslim brothers at all. They keep their border locked down.

Largely because they themselves fear further attacks by Israel should they side too overtly with the Palestinians in Gaza by breaking blockades.