Crime statistics have to be reported so that politicans can approve funding based upon need.
I'm not completely familiar with in inner workings of British police agencies, but here in the U.S. many departments are top-heavy. Even my agency has too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. We have administrators with high salaries doing menial work that could be performed by non-commissioned personnel at half the cost. Meanwhile, the Patrol Division and Criminal Investigation Division are working short-handed. Hopefully, they can steamline operations and get more cops on the beat instead wasting money on pencil pushers and bean counters back at the station.

All very well, but very academic. If Mark Oaten has his way, car thieves will be sentenced to 6 weeks of Go-Karting. I would be shaking in my boots, if I was a car thief.

Originally Posted by octopus

All very well, but very academic. If Mark Oaten has his way, car thieves will be sentenced to 6 weeks of Go-Karting. I would be shaking in my boots, if I was a car thief.

and my neighbour says that shoplifters should be shot on sight. As my neighbour and Mark Oaten have exactly the same political clout since Oaten did not seek to be elected this term then your point is...well...pointless

Originally Posted by uncon

and my neighbour says that shoplifters should be shot on sight. As my neighbour and Mark Oaten have exactly the same political clout since Oaten did not seek to be elected this term then your point is...well...pointless

On the contary, there is every point, the party he represents, subscribes to this kind of madness, as do you and Don, I suspect. The really worrying thing is that they are now in part goverment.

He is not representative of the Lib dems, because he quit.

so your point is still moot

Originally Posted by octopus

On the contary, there is every point, the party he represents, subscribes to this kind of madness, as do you and Don, I suspect. The really worrying thing is that they are now in part goverment.

I'm mystified by this talk of Mark Oaten having some influence, much less an extraordinary influence as I can't quite ken how you think he represents any party now. Ya haven't had a minor stroke have you? Or stepped into a time warp?

Originally Posted by Don

I'm mystified by this talk of Mark Oaten having some influence, much less an extraordinary influence as I can't quite ken how you think he represents any party now. Ya haven't had a minor stroke have you? Or stepped into a time warp?

Don, I could reply to this post with equal sarcasm. However, that"s not my way. Mark Oaten was a possible leader of the Lib-Dems - so that is why I still refer to him. What I am asking now, does Nick Glegg (now deputy PM) subscribe to this idealistic rubbish? Whether we like it or not, as I have said, the Lib-Dems are now part of the UK goverment (scary thought). Like you they are just dreamers. I don"t mean in a sarcastic way, I mean you and the Lib-Dems, and myself are caring people. The only difference between me, you and the Lib-Dems is that the people I care about are decent, hard working people - not scum that go around stealing other peoples property and wrecking their lives. So, no time warp and as far as I know I am in good health. Are you?

Originally Posted by octopus

Don, I could reply to this post with equal sarcasm. However, that"s not my way. Mark Oaten was a possible leader of the Lib-Dems - so that is why I still refer to him. What I am asking now, does Nick Glegg (now deputy PM) subscribe to this idealistic rubbish? Whether we like it or not, as I have said, the Lib-Dems are now part of the UK goverment (scary thought). Like you they are just dreamers. I don"t mean in a sarcastic way, I mean you and the Lib-Dems, and myself are caring people. The only difference between me, you and the Lib-Dems is that the people I care about are decent, hard working people - not scum that go around stealing other peoples property and wrecking their lives. So, no time warp and as far as I know I am in good health. Are you?

Thanks for asking. In fact I do have this pain running down my left leg and into my foot. Any clue to what it may be? No? Then to my point. Your original comment fairly reeked with sarcasm, but it's wrong for me to reply with sarcasm?

Ok, here is a comment without sarcasm - It makes no sense to drag up a LibDem ghost. Get to the point and make it with valid references to Nick Glegg's position or the party's position or, if I have my cabinet positions correct, Theresa May's position, instead of dragging in someone without noticeable influence.

Originally Posted by Don

Thanks for asking. In fact I do have this pain running down my left leg and into my foot. Any clue to what it may be? No? Then to my point. Your original comment fairly reeked with sarcasm, but it's wrong for me to reply with sarcasm?

Ok, here is a comment without sarcasm - It makes no sense to drag up a LibDem ghost. Get to the point and make it with valid references to Nick Glegg's position or the party's position or, if I have my cabinet positions correct, Theresa May's position, instead of dragging in someone without noticeable influence.

If you remember Don, it was you who said "Did I have a stroke, or living in a time warp" Is that not sarcasm? With respect, if you can"t take it, don"t dish it out.

It is no surprise to me that Mr Cameron and Nick Glegg are partners. I have said all along they are like peas in a pod. It is only the likes of UKIP that offer any normal sense of values in 2010 - Where"s Maggie when you need her. THAT WAS A TORY PARTY! As I have already stated the Lib-Dems, like the Tory Party are commited to a liberal stance on immigration and Law and order. This can only equal a Mark Oaten style approach. As Nick Glegg and Theresa May are senior members of this adminstation, we can expect anything from Go-Karting lessons to all expenses paid trips from Butlins - Kenya. I hope I am proved wrong on this. But do you think they will adopt the UKIP approach, such as a 5 year immigration freeze or a referendum on hanging? OF COURSE NOT! Nick Glegg, " hug a hoodie" David Cameron are just like our former Lib-Dem dreamer; wait and see.

By your comments I take it you endorse this kind of liberal approach. If you had your car stolen, wrecked and set on fire - would you be happy for the culprits to be given these prizes, sorry sanctions? Bear in mind some people have older cars, and rely on them for work - so adequate insurance might not be forthcoming to them. Again, with respect, find yourself a better cause!

Originally Posted by octopus

If you remember Don, it was you who said "Did I have a stroke, or living in a time warp" Is that not sarcasm? With respect, if you can"t take it, don"t dish it out.

Still having that reading comprehension problem? I didn't say I can't take it. I didn't say I wasn't using sarcasm. I SAID YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT REEKED OF SARCASM, as in the first comment you made. Does 'speaking' louder help? You well know, or at least you should have that my remarks were directed at your dragging in Oaten when he is without any visible influence. Have Cameron, or Clegg, or May endorsed any of Oaten's nonsense?

Perhaps I should be more direct with you, direct us to someone who shares his 'beliefs' and is actually in a position to implement them. As tantal said, most departments are top heavy, and the bureaucracy needs paring badly.

By your comments I take it you endorse this kind of liberal approach. If you had your car stolen, wrecked and set on fire - would you be happy for the culprits to be given these prizes, sorry sanctions? Bear in mind some people have older cars, and rely on them for work - so adequate insurance might not be forthcoming to them. Again, with respect, find yourself a better cause!

I don't recall indicating one way or the other, my beliefs on the subject, so don't put words in my mouth. I asked you to provide the names of people who actually had influence, and their beliefs on the subject, not a disgraced former MP.

Originally Posted by octopus

Don, I could reply to this post with equal sarcasm. However, that"s not my way. Mark Oaten was a possible leader of the Lib-Dems - so that is why I still refer to him.

Ancient history and his bid for leadership went exactly nowhere. Did anyone in a cabinet or leadership position NOW endorse his more outlandish ideas? BTW, educating prisoner's is not nonsense, unless of course you're training them to be locksmiths.

So let me get this clear...Octopus has spent so much time believing his chosen party's hype that he sincerely confuses 'I could have been a contender' with 'I was a contender'?

Originally Posted by uncon

So let me get this clear...Octopus has spent so much time believing his chosen party's hype that he sincerely confuses 'I could have been a contender' with 'I was a contender'?

BINGO!

Step up and choose a prize.

Originally Posted by Don

Still having that reading comprehension problem? I didn't say I can't take it. I didn't say I wasn't using sarcasm. I SAID YOUR ORIGINAL COMMENT REEKED OF SARCASM, as in the first comment you made. Does 'speaking' louder help? You well know, or at least you should have that my remarks were directed at your dragging in Oaten when he is without any visible influence. Have Cameron, or Clegg, or May endorsed any of Oaten's nonsense?

Perhaps I should be more direct with you, direct us to someone who shares his 'beliefs' and is actually in a position to implement them. As tantal said, most departments are top heavy, and the bureaucracy needs paring badly.

I don't recall indicating one way or the other, my beliefs on the subject, so don't put words in my mouth. I asked you to provide the names of people who actually had influence, and their beliefs on the subject, not a disgraced former MP.

All I am saying, Don, is that the Lib-Dem movement is well known for this kind of misguided thinking - AND YOU DO ENDORSE IT! Maybe not knowingly, but you do have sympathy for this kind nonesense put forward by Glegg, Cameron, May and OUR DISCREDITED FRIEND - WHO WAS A MAJOR PERSONALITY IN THE LIB-DEMS!. Free treats have taken place in the past under a under Conservative adminstation, and no doubt will continue under this adminstration. Almost everybody I have disscused this with face to face have reacted like me with outrage -YOU FRANKLY ASTOUND ME WITH YOUR INDIFFERENCE!! I can"t understand how anyone could endorse this rubbish! I remember another thread : Do we have the right to protect our Homes? On that occassion you came down firmly on the side of the crimminal. And you say you are not a "do-gooder"?

As for reading comprehension problems. I think you have them! Why? I believe the entire Lib-Dem, and Tory party subscribes to these dangerous naive measures in fighting crime - SO I HAVE GIVEN NAMES IN THE PRESENT ADMINSTRATION! In my view, they are all as niave as Mark Oaten. Answer: THE whole asminstration. if they take away the treats, they will only replace them with Butlins mark 2.

As for getting upset when people don"t agree with you. Again, you do! You did on that thread I mentioned above.

Any right thinking person could NOT possibly go along with this view of treats for crimes. Any right thinking person would be disgusted that crime is rewarded, householders are made into crimminals (Have we the Right to protect our Homes?) and common sense and decency are sneered at! You know the only democratic party to turn this around? UKIP; it is in their manifesto. I think your heart is in the right place, but, like our present adminstration, naive.

Originally Posted by uncon

So let me get this clear...Octopus has spent so much time believing his chosen party's hype that he sincerely confuses 'I could have been a contender' with 'I was a contender'?

All I am saying is that UKIP are putting forward policies that reflect mainstream believe. To me that is the best option we have. Nothing to do with hype.

Originally Posted by Don

Ancient history and his bid for leadership went exactly nowhere. Did anyone in a cabinet or leadership position NOW endorse his more outlandish ideas? BTW, educating prisoner's is not nonsense, unless of course you're training them to be locksmiths.

Ancient history you say. The Lib-Dem movement is well known for a very soft approach to Law and Order, and other issues - this has been the case for many years. What I am saying is that Mark Oaten did a lot to promote this misguided image. So, you can"t really mention the Lib-Dems without mentioning Mark Oaten. It would be like mentioning UKIP, and not mentioning their stance on the EU. Liberal is the defintion of SOFT AND NAIVE! That is why I am tarring the present adminstration with the same brush.

Getting back to the thread in question (we do seem to have gone off topic, somewhat). Anything that cuts down on bureaucracy in the Police is a good idea - get them fighting crime, instead of behind a computer, sorting out "red tape". But my point is, without proper sanctions they may as well be behind a desk. This is where the coalition fails, in my opnion. You need front line, hands on policing, at all levels. In short, our criminals will take no notice of them unless they have something to fear if arrested and charged. A step in the right direction. But lets make sentencing and life for the yob, thief and thug much more unpleasant. The Police is job should be to fight crime and bring criminals before the courts - and send them to a nightmare world - not Butlins, Kenya or them any other treats. I am not suggesting Buchenwald M2, but a place that they don"t want to go back too. By the way, Mr Oaten"s approach, 90% re-offend. Can"t think why? This adminstration needs to keep all its plates spinning.

Also, we need the right kind of officers: Idealy MEN on the beat, with security, or military background. If you don"t you create a handicap system. Deep down, we all know it makes sense.

Plus, luxury holidays and the treats I have outlined are one hell of a way to educate prisoners; personaly, I would go for a PHD, if it involved a trip to Kenya. As for Go-Karting lessons, maybe we could see the next Louis Hamilton - or improve their job prospects as a get-away driver!

Originally Posted by octopus

All I am saying, Don, is that the Lib-Dem movement is well known for this kind of misguided thinking - AND YOU DO ENDORSE IT! Maybe not knowingly, but you do have sympathy for this kind nonesense put forward by Glegg, Cameron, May and OUR DISCREDITED FRIEND - WHO WAS A MAJOR PERSONALITY IN THE LIB-DEMS!. Free treats have taken place in the past under a under Conservative adminstation, and no doubt will continue under this adminstration. Almost everybody I have disscused this with face to face have reacted like me with outrage -YOU FRANKLY ASTOUND ME WITH YOUR INDIFFERENCE!! I can"t understand how anyone could endorse this rubbish! I remember another thread : Do we have the right to protect our Homes? On that occassion you came down firmly on the side of the crimminal. And you say you are not a "do-gooder"?

I don't endorse rubbish and I never said I did. What I said, before you lost control, was to bring into the argument people in power and statements that they have made to prove your point. So far all you've done is say what libdem have said in the past and have no actual evidence that the powers that be have any plans to put in place "karting and trips to Kenya". The only thing I've said is that I endorse training and education, the rest of the crap you claim I endorse is made up in your head. I still suggest a C.A.T. scan just in case (friendly sarcasm )

So you have to resort to an outright lie? In that other thread I, and Dougie for another, argued for the rule of law. In most advanced societies, and indeed in the UK as in the U.S., when an attack is broken off and the attacker flees, what the guy and his brother did is against the law. You however, from emotion, argued the rule of man and vigilantism, in short you argued for breaking the law. Without the rule of law we eventually have anarchy.

As for reading comprehension problems. I think you have them! Why? I believe the entire Lib-Dem, and Tory party subscribes to these dangerous naive measures in fighting crime - SO I HAVE GIVEN NAMES IN THE PRESENT ADMINSTRATION! In my view, they are all as niave as Mark Oaten. Answer: THE whole asminstration. if they take away the treats, they will only replace them with Butlins mark 2.

So, you "believe" and in your "view". No proof at all.

As for getting upset when people don"t agree with you. Again, you do! You did on that thread I mentioned above.

No, my eight legged friend, you lost control and argued from emotion. Your entire argument was emotion based.

Any right thinking person could NOT possibly go along with this view of treats for crimes. Any right thinking person would be disgusted that crime is rewarded, householders are made into crimminals (Have we the Right to protect our Homes?) and common sense and decency are sneered at! You know the only democratic party to turn this around? UKIP; it is in their manifesto. I think your heart is in the right place, but, like our present adminstration, naive.

Again, there is a difference between protecting 'our homes' and chasing the miscreant down the street and beating him senseless. It's the law, learn it and obey it or work to change it. Don't expect to violate it without consequence.

You have absolutely no idea where my heart is unless I tell you. I do the 'job' 2 to 3 nights a week and I do it within the law.