Originally Posted by Tootrue

I was utterly disgusted to read about two teenage yobs attacking the pilot of an air ambulance and delaying a baby getting treatment for scalds. The story is here. I want to know how the government is going to tackle this huge problem.

A very sad state of afairs. No doubt our resident "do-gooders" will argue that they had a deprived childhood: Never had a bike, an ice cream or love from their parents - a trip to center parks or Kenya would put everything right; making them reformed young people. 90% re-offend in fact.

A person who knowingly damages an air ambulance is scum! Untill we see the return of corporal punishment and proper remand homes for youth crime, it will continue. However, the crime I would charge these two with is attempted murder and put them behind bars where they belong.

The only democratic party to combat this kind of thing is UKIP. Untill people vote for change - this will continue. The present goverment will only offer more of Gordon Brown"s weak, EU approved, methods. We need to come out of our comfort zones and put in power a party that is not afraid to meet this problem head on.

So in answer to the question - nothing, I"m afraid. However, if the pilot had accidently killed one of them, he would have been very likely sentenced to life for murder. I think something needs to change.

Kent Police said a 19-year-old male was arrested on suspicion of criminal damage and public order offences, and a 17-year-old youth was arrested on suspicion of common assault and public order offences.

They have been arrested, and the case is pending further enquiries - what more do you want.
There is already law covering this type of behaviour.
I wonder what is the REAL point of this thread.

Originally Posted by Tootrue

I was utterly disgusted to read about two teenage yobs attacking the pilot of an air ambulance and delaying a baby getting treatment for scalds. The story is here. I want to know how the government is going to tackle this huge problem.

Which "huge problem" is that? Surely the attacking of air ambulances is not occurring that often. Is the "huge problem" 'yobs' in general?

Being an American, and not knowing 'exactly' what a yob is I looked it up on the Urban Dictionary site and found this highly interesting quotation from one Harry Flashman. "Sid Vicious was a yob...but, you know, people change...they get older, wiser...they mature...Sid's no longer a yob; he's dead."

Perhaps they should have found another pilot and then airdropped the pair from a few thousand feet. Wonder how high they'd bounce?

All silliness aside, I agree it was a terrible incident and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Beyond that, what do you want?

Originally Posted by octopus

A very sad state of afairs. No doubt our resident "do-gooders" will argue that they had a deprived childhood: Never had a bike, an ice cream or love from their parents - a trip to center parks or Kenya would put everything right; making them reformed young people. 90% re-offend in fact.

Don't forget the trip to Kenya and the go kart lessons you're so fond of bringing up like Lazarus rising from the grave.
(you know I couldn't let that go, when you dangled the "do-gooder" bait)

A person who knowingly damages an air ambulance is scum! Untill we see the return of corporal punishment and proper remand homes for youth crime, it will continue. However, the crime I would charge these two with is attempted murder and put them behind bars where they belong.

What will continue? The damaging of air ambulances? Has this happened often? Attempted murder is harder to prove. Maybe the little darlings were simply trying to defend themselves.

The only democratic party to combat this kind of thing is UKIP. Untill people vote for change - this will continue. The present goverment will only offer more of Gordon Brown"s weak, EU approved, methods. We need to come out of our comfort zones and put in power a party that is not afraid to meet this problem head on.

Quite possibly a few more years of UKIP fear mongering might bring about your wanted change, but I'll wager if that ever happens and they do take that hard line, it will be with everyone and you may not like the result all that much.

So in answer to the question - nothing, I"m afraid. However, if the pilot had accidently killed one of them, he would have been very likely sentenced to life for murder. I think something needs to change.

All of which is pure conjecture on your part.

Originally Posted by Don

Don't forget the trip to Kenya and the go kart lessons you're so fond of bringing up like Lazarus rising from the grave.
(you know I couldn't let that go, when you dangled the "do-gooder" bait)



What will continue? The damaging of air ambulances? Has this happened often? Attempted murder is harder to prove. Maybe the little darlings were simply trying to defend themselves.



Quite possibly a few more years of UKIP fear mongering might bring about your wanted change, but I'll wager if that ever happens and they do take that hard line, it will be with everyone and you may not like the result all that much.



All of which is pure conjecture on your part.

Good Morning Don! You never cease to amaze me! I thought I would hear from you on this. Afterall, you are one of those well meaning souls I was refering to. Sorry I couldn"t get back sooner - pressures of work, I"m afraid. What you say is true - politicians do hide things - Labour, 1997, is the example that sticks in my mind - they were very hard on the the UK popultion - especialy for the tax paying law abiding. However, life"s a gamble and a party that says it supports the rights of people like me and the vast majority - I am prepared to give them my vote, and take the risk.

You saying trying to defend themselves? Defend themselves from what? I am sure the pilot was only trying to get this badly scalded baby to hospital - that"s what ambulance staff normaly do, in the the UK, or the USA; they don"t normaly attack members of the public, unless for a very good reason, like damaging air ambulances. The reason I said they should be charged with attempted murder is an attack on an aircraft is not like an attack on a road vehicle, that can quite oftten pull over. If an aircraft crashes through vandalism - you can potentialy have a mini holocaust, given the right set of circumstaces. "Conjecturer" you say, had the ambulance crashed into a city, you could have had another 9/11 in terms of dead and injured. As you say, maybe be hard to prove - but if I was the CPS I would have damn good try.

I would say to you, again, you could be a victim of people such as this - it is going all the time. Would you be this impartial then? That is what the question you have to ask yourself. Again, everybody I spoken too about this, has reacted with outrage at such an incident. Normaly, by the rules of war, it would not happen even in a global conflict. I think you are one of these that likes to be different. Any normal person would react with outrage at this. So far the only person to show common sense on this is tootrue. No wonder the country going to the dogs.

Originally Posted by Barry

They have been arrested, and the case is pending further enquiries - what more do you want.
There is already law covering this type of behaviour.
I wonder what is the REAL point of this thread.

I think what tootrue is saying, how about the goverment bringing in appropriate measures to combat this kind of behavoir? It"s certainly what I an saying! The exsisting sanctions do not work. Plus as the the thread says, "when should we tackle yobs"?

Originally Posted by Don

Which "huge problem" is that? Surely the attacking of air ambulances is not occurring that often. Is the "huge problem" 'yobs' in general?

Being an American, and not knowing 'exactly' what a yob is I looked it up on the Urban Dictionary site and found this highly interesting quotation from one Harry Flashman. "Sid Vicious was a yob...but, you know, people change...they get older, wiser...they mature...Sid's no longer a yob; he's dead."

Perhaps they should have found another pilot and then airdropped the pair from a few thousand feet. Wonder how high they'd bounce?

All silliness aside, I agree it was a terrible incident and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Beyond that, what do you want?

"Which huge problem"? By saying that you confirm you don"t understand the problem in question. A problem that is causing misey to millions of people in Britain - as well as your country, and others. We have an ineffective Police force, inadequate punishments and complacent judges and politicians who do not live among problem.

But, on a brighter note, you say "they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law". Congratulations! that"s the first time you have shown any sign of compassion towards the victims; although mared by that rather sick joke, bearing in mind a young child was severly injured, and need of urgent treatment from a hospital, which our two deprived youths denied him, by their thoughtless actions.

I have been a victim of yobs in the past - not ln a life threating way. But enough to know that turning the other cheek doesn"t work. Unfortunately, you have to meet violence with violence - not the easiest solution for ordinary people - but the most succesful, because it works.

As for our friend from the 70s - you mess about with drugs, you die! A lot of people need to learn that lesson.

And what do we want? Simple! Justice! Unfortunately, we have people like yourself running the Police, Courts and prisons, so I won"t hold out to much hope on seeing an appropriate result on this.

It seems that at least the police have taken action and now it is for the law to grind slowly to achieve justice. I don't enjoy reading articles like this, but even our new good government takes time to make changes so we will have to hope that the courts will deal adequately with these individuals. Our track record is not good in this direction and the coalition are likely to be severely restricted financially in what they can do about this situation.

Originally Posted by octopus

Good Morning Don! You never cease to amaze me! I thought I would hear from you on this. Afterall, you are one of those well meaning souls I was refering to. Sorry I couldn"t get back sooner - pressures of work, I"m afraid. What you say is true - politicians do hide things - Labour, 1997, is the example that sticks in my mind - they were very hard on the the UK popultion - especialy for the tax paying law abiding. However, life"s a gamble and a party that says it supports the rights of people like me and the vast majority - I am prepared to give them my vote, and take the risk.

You saying trying to defend themselves? Defend themselves from what? I am sure the pilot was only trying to get this badly scalded baby to hospital - that"s what ambulance staff normaly do, in the the UK, or the USA; they don"t normaly attack members of the public, unless for a very good reason, like damaging air ambulances. The reason I said they should be charged with attempted murder is an attack on an aircraft is not like an attack on a road vehicle, that can quite oftten pull over. If an aircraft crashes through vandalism - you can potentialy have a mini holocaust, given the right set of circumstaces. "Conjecturer" you say, had the ambulance crashed into a city, you could have had another 9/11 in terms of dead and injured. As you say, maybe be hard to prove - but if I was the CPS I would have damn good try.

I would say to you, again, you could be a victim of people such as this - it is going all the time. Would you be this impartial then? That is what the question you have to ask yourself. Again, everybody I spoken too about this, has reacted with outrage at such an incident. Normaly, by the rules of war, it would not happen even in a global conflict. I think you are one of these that likes to be different. Any normal person would react with outrage at this. So far the only person to show common sense on this is tootrue. No wonder the country going to the dogs.

You are so devoid of a sense of humor it is truly pathetic. You also take yourself way to seriously.

Ive only two words that I regard as needed on this subject,
One is Cane the other is Borstal.

Originally Posted by Streetwalker

Ive only two words that I regard as needed on this subject,
One is Cane the other is Borstal.

So let me consider this...physical violence and an all male environment?

Wonderful! history shows us that it either results in accomplished criminals or prominent politicians, which could be viewed as the same thing.

Excuse me while I hold fire on ratifying that one. I know that the male influence on children is important, but Borstal aint providing the 'daddy' that is best.

Originally Posted by uncon

So let me consider this...physical violence and an all male environment?

Wonderful! history shows us that it either results in accomplished criminals or prominent politicians, which could be viewed as the same thing.

Excuse me while I hold fire on ratifying that one. I know that the male influence on children is important, but Borstal aint providing the 'daddy' that is best.

Assuming I accept your analysis, can you provide an alternative?

Originally Posted by uncon

So let me consider this...physical violence and an all male environment?

Wonderful! history shows us that it either results in accomplished criminals or prominent politicians, which could be viewed as the same thing.

That may well be true uncon but you wouldn't have the Yobos.

Originally Posted by Don

You are so devoid of a sense of humor it is truly pathetic. You also take yourself way to seriously.

I have, but things like a badly injured baby, I don"t find funny.

Originally Posted by soloman

Assuming I accept your analysis, can you provide an alternative?

The alternative is what we have now.

Originally Posted by uncon

So let me consider this...physical violence and an all male environment?

Wonderful! history shows us that it either results in accomplished criminals or prominent politicians, which could be viewed as the same thing.

Excuse me while I hold fire on ratifying that one. I know that the male influence on children is important, but Borstal aint providing the 'daddy' that is best.

Would a nice hoilday to center parks be more appropriate?

Originally Posted by octopus

Would a nice hoilday to center parks be more appropriate?

Cannot we get them fit by road breaking, and filling in potholes? Plenty of work for them there for a long time!

Originally Posted by soloman

Cannot we get them fit by road breaking, and filling in potholes? Plenty of work for them there for a long time!

Quite. I can't see any reason at all why many offenders couldn't be very usefully employed carrying out such work in the community, under the control of people experienced in whatever job they're assigned to do and under the watchful eye of a couple of guards. With today's electronic ankle bracelets, which are virtually indestructible and capable of monitoring a wearer's position to a few metres, brightly coloured clothing and the careful selection of who did what job, I don't believe there'd be many absconding; the incentives not to could be more than the risks of doing so. As with a workfare scheme for the longer term unemployed which I'd also like to see introduced, at least doing work like this would perhaps offer new skills and a bit of hope for the future for many, as well as giving some of their victims a better sense that some justice had been done.

Originally Posted by Midas

Quite. I can't see any reason at all why many offenders couldn't be very usefully employed carrying out such work in the community, under the control of people experienced in whatever job they're assigned to do and under the watchful eye of a couple of guards. With today's electronic ankle bracelets, which are virtually indestructible and capable of monitoring a wearer's position to a few metres, brightly coloured clothing and the careful selection of who did what job, I don't believe there'd be many absconding; the incentives not to could be more than the risks of doing so. As with a workfare scheme for the longer term unemployed which I'd also like to see introduced, at least doing work like this would perhaps offer new skills and a bit of hope for the future for many, as well as giving some of their victims a better sense that some justice had been done.

Well said Midas!

On holiday on the island of Madeira, some 18 months ago, we discovered that the unemployed there have to report weekly to the local town mayor who would give them community jobs to complete before receiving their unemployment benefits. That should stop them being yobs as well as providing a significant needed local community benefit. Sure the unions would call foul as they always do whenever such proposals are raised. Hopefully this government will ignore any such union objections this time!

Originally Posted by soloman

Well said Midas!

On holiday on the island of Madeira, some 18 months ago, we discovered that the unemployed there have to report weekly to the local town mayor who would give them community jobs to complete before receiving their unemployment benefits. That should stop them being yobs as well as providing a significant needed local community benefit. Sure the unions would call foul as they always do whenever such proposals are raised. Hopefully this government will ignore any such union objections this time!

I find it ironic that it's usually those on the political left who are the main opponents of this type of scheme being introduced, yet it's frequently the liberal law and order policies introduced by past Labour governments which have been the main cause of much of the petty and anti-social crime we have today.

Originally Posted by soloman

Cannot we get them fit by road breaking, and filling in potholes? Plenty of work for them there for a long time!

Good idea, a modern day chain gang - I like it; but I don"t think it will go down well with our "do-gooders". Plus, the work would be done a lot cheaper as well. "Hug a Hoodie" Cameron, might warm to that side of it.

The way I understand it, these 'liberal policies' are designed to rehabilitate offenders more than punish. At the same time we seem to have more lenient sentencing when time off for parole, good behaviour and licence are factored in. And to ensure that all this runs smoothly, many layers of bureaucracy have been added.

So what you have are three things that are competing and canceling out each other. While prisons might be better able to rehabilitate than they used to, prisoners, especially the yobs and petty thief, are not in prison long enough to benefit, and the guards are under-staffed and have their hand's tied.

Seems to me there are obvious problems that can be fixed with enough money and resources. However, we don't have the money and resources, and even if we did, this isn't going to fix the overall problem. It is a hugely complex problem.

Originally Posted by Rizla

The way I understand it, these 'liberal policies' are designed to rehabilitate offenders more than punish. At the same time we seem to have more lenient sentencing when time off for parole, good behaviour and licence are factored in. And to ensure that all this runs smoothly, many layers of bureaucracy have been added.

So what you have are three things that are competing and canceling out each other. While prisons might be better able to rehabilitate than they used to, prisoners, especially the yobs and petty thief, are not in prison long enough to benefit, and the guards are under-staffed and have their hand's tied.

Seems to me there are obvious problems that can be fixed with enough money and resources. However, we don't have the money and resources, and even if we did, this isn't going to fix the overall problem. It is a hugely complex problem.

I have to disagree on you saying it is a complex problem. On the contary, it is a very easy one to solve. All the goverment have to do is show them they can"t win - they do with us motorists. You certainly don"t need academics, with fancy letters after their names, suggesting complex methods of dealing with the problem. All that is needed is to talk to the people that have to endure this problem.

All that is needed is a different approach. Rehabilitate the victims, yes - they deserve it. No doubt our goverment will say there"s no money. No money? But only a couple of months ago we were helping pick up the bill for China and Russia (a bit like Bill gates claiming Social security, really)- as well as our other "good causes". Anyway, the offenders, or their parents should be liable for that - and they have got the money too: Houses, cars, computers, carpets, sofas, pictures even the beds they sleep in - failing that their dock their wages or dole money. In addition to compensation, they should be liable for any damage to property. 10 youths cause £100,000 of damage £10,000 each. This would make the younger ones really popular with their parents. A central goverment fund should be used to give victims immediate cash - but the final cost should not be borne by us tax payers - give that burden to the scum that cause the problems.

As for prisons. Why does it cost so much? The prisons I have in mind would cost very little. Certainly less than the war in Afghanistan, the third world "good causes" and the EU. No TVs, no sports, no libaries no nothing. Just bed and work. That"s billions saved straight away. But all that"s needed in most cases is a 50 pence wooden cane. I think you would see a large drop in youth crime for a minimal cost.

As for prisons. Why does it cost so much? The prisons I have in mind would cost very little. Certainly less than the war in Afghanistan, the third world "good causes" and the EU. No TVs, no sports, no libaries no nothing. Just bed and work. That"s billions saved straight away. But all that"s needed in most cases is a 50 pence wooden cane. I think you would see a large drop in youth crime for a minimal cost.

Simple isn't it?

Originally Posted by manrow

As for prisons. Why does it cost so much? The prisons I have in mind would cost very little. Certainly less than the war in Afghanistan, the third world "good causes" and the EU. No TVs, no sports, no libaries no nothing. Just bed and work. That"s billions saved straight away. But all that"s needed in most cases is a 50 pence wooden cane. I think you would see a large drop in youth crime for a minimal cost.

Simple isn't it?

Very simple! But unfortunatley the circles "Hug a Hoodie" Cameron and his party faithful move in know very little about yob crime (about as much as I would know about running Eton); if they did, they wouldn"t anounce such pathetic measures to deal with it - "increase the price of drinks". With nonesense like that, you just know, they haven"t got a clue what they are talking about.

They are like the "leftie do-gooders", if your kind to them, they will be kind back. I used to think that - then I turned 5 -years -old. I think if David Cameron could read posts like this - he"d be shocked. Like the "do-gooders", they are sincre people, with geniune convictions - but very naive, because they live in a different world to the urban jungles, a lot of people have to endure. People are frightend to get on buses at night - even day time, in some areas. Many of my customers, who I deliver to, won"t answer their doors at night - and it is only 5pm in the winter. People won"t walk the streets after dark - one man did in Portsmouth, badly beaten - now has brain damage. just wrong place, wrong time. I don"t know if they ever caught them. Even if you travel by car on a motorway, you can have these "people" throwing very large slabs of concrete down onto your car - several people have been killed this way. Plus many many more crimes of this nature, which is not taken seriously enough.

David Cameron needs to meet these people- not just the Eton- Oxford - THE GUARDS brigade, who just organise inquries to youth crime - then just open more youth centers to give them something to do. Too expensive, frankly too much trouble - and why the hell should we?. My way is MUCH cheaper AND A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE. If he adopted this train of thought he could become the new Thatcher - if not better; at the moment he has a long way to go.

Originally Posted by octopus

Very simple! But unfortunatley the circles "Hug a Hoodie" Cameron and his party faithful move in know very little about yob crime (about as much as I would know about running Eton); if they did, they wouldn"t anounce such pathetic measures to deal with it - "increase the price of drinks". With nonesense like that, you just know, they haven"t got a clue what they are talking about.

They are like the "leftie do-gooders", if your kind to them, they will be kind back. I used to think that - then I turned 5 -years -old. I think if David Cameron could read posts like this - he"d be shocked. Like the "do-gooders", they are sincre people, with geniune convictions - but very naive, because they live in a different world to the urban jungles, a lot of people have to endure. People are frightend to get on buses at night - even day time, in some areas. Many of my customers, who I deliver to, won"t answer their doors at night - and it is only 5pm in the winter. People won"t walk the streets after dark - one man did in Portsmouth, badly beaten - now has brain damage. just wrong place, wrong time. I don"t know if they ever caught them. Even if you travel by car on a motorway, you can have these "people" throwing very large slabs of concrete down onto your car - several people have been killed this way. Plus many many more crimes of this nature, which is not taken seriously enough.

David Cameron needs to meet these people- not just the Eton- Oxford - THE GUARDS brigade, who just organise inquries to youth crime - then just open more youth centers to give them something to do. Too expensive, frankly too much trouble - and why the hell should we?. My way is MUCH cheaper AND A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE. If he adopted this train of thought he could become the new Thatcher - if not better; at the moment he has a long way to go.

What a good post!

Since Theresa May has told police to ignore targets and fight crime shouldn't we be seeing or hearing of some action on this front by now?

Originally Posted by manrow

What a good post!

Since Theresa May has told police to ignore targets and fight crime shouldn't we be seeing or hearing of some action on this front by now?

Thanks, Manrow, although I say so myself, we don"t hear it often enough, do we? Not everybody agrees, through. As for the action, we will see some, I think, but not the things that I would advocate - so this will continue, in my belief.

As I have said the likes of Theresa May and her boss David "hug a hoodie" Cameron, would not show your response to this post, because they don"t understand the problem in question - thus just turn their attention to things like the economy, which is hugely important, thanks to Labours appaling management - which they are effective against because they understand how the world of finance works, more than I would, and that is where they will win through; law and order - FORGET IT!

At their party conference earlier in the year: The way to tackle drink related crime - PUT UP THE PRICE OF ALCOHOL. I always come back with the question - WHY SHOULD WE BE PENALISED FOR FEW DAMN YOBS, THAT CAN"T HOLD THEIR DRINK?! With that sort of mentality, they will get nowhere fast, ever. It may please the EU, and the other "do-gooders", but won"t solve your problem, anymore than the supposed character building trips abroad did.

No, to tackle these problems, you need the likes of UKIP, or even the further right BNP, to address this huge problem (Both would take us out of the constraints of the EU). Even Lady Thatcher, the great lady herself couldn"t really solve this problem. Why? Our friends in Brussels.

Originally Posted by octopus

Thanks, Manrow, although I say so myself, we don"t hear it often enough, do we? Not everybody agrees, through. As for the action, we will see some, I think, but not the things that I would advocate - so this will continue, in my belief.

As I have said the likes of Theresa May and her boss David "hug a hoodie" Cameron, would not show your response to this post, because they don"t understand the problem in question - thus just turn their attention to things like the economy, which is hugely important, thanks to Labours appaling management - which they are effective against because they understand how the world of finance works, more than I would, and that is where they will win through; law and order - FORGET IT!

At their party conference earlier in the year: The way to tackle drink related crime - PUT UP THE PRICE OF ALCOHOL. I always come back with the question - WHY SHOULD WE BE PENALISED FOR FEW DAMN YOBS, THAT CAN"T HOLD THEIR DRINK?! With that sort of mentality, they will get nowhere fast, ever. It may please the EU, and the other "do-gooders", but won"t solve your problem, anymore than the supposed character building trips abroad did.

No, to tackle these problems, you need the likes of UKIP, or even the further right BNP, to address this huge problem (Both would take us out of the constraints of the EU). Even Lady Thatcher, the great lady herself couldn"t really solve this problem. Why? Our friends in Brussels.

Isn't part of the problem with the apparent rise in numbers of Yobs, is that beer strengths are rising all the time? It might make more sense to rapidly increase the duty on high gravity beers and lagers, to encourage consumption of the lower strength varieties?

Originally Posted by soloman

Isn't part of the problem with the apparent rise in numbers of Yobs, is that beer strengths are rising all the time? It might make more sense to rapidly increase the duty on high gravity beers and lagers, to encourage consumption of the lower strength varieties?

I have disagree. I myself don"t particulaly like low strength beer; I find it gassy, and unsatisfying - as for alcohol free, these yobs should be made to drink it - it"s disgusting! Besides, that to me, is besides the point. A lot of people, like myself, like strong beer on a night out, at a low price - which is good for the brewers, good for the pubs, and the end user. The brewy business, like any other business, is about providing a product, at a competive price, ie strong beer, in this case. If little 18 -year-old Johnnie Briggs, and his little mates, decide to cause trouble outside the pub, why should an honest business and its customers be made to pick up the bill? That is matter for the Police and the courts - not a matter for the pubs. Pubs and clubs, are in business to give good value for money to their customers, most of which, do know how to behave -including myself. That is just the easy option "cop out" - hit the law-abiding, yet again!

Six strokes of the birch across their backsides, and the bill for any damage done, would be far more effective, I can assure you! My response to that, is why should we?

I think the answer is simple so simple we do tend to miss it, It all starts at home let the parent do the job let,s give them back the right to punish the child as Nessa lets them teach them some manners and respect for other people,s property Let,s bring back real coppers you know the ones 6 ft 6" built like a brick s___t house the rugby player type,Lets give them a real education with real teachers and and let the teachers continue to teach them respect. Then let us provide them with work that can justify the education, instead of all these non job,s or what,s even worse, no job at all.
I do wonder at times what will it be like when the next generation leave school only to realize the the s---t education they received compares well to the jobs that are available to them The government should be ashamed of themselves and so should we be, to allow this to happen in the first place is a disgrace.

If young families of today wish to educate their children it would be better of by taking them out of the de-education system and teach them themselves at home after all if thay can't teach them to read and write or do their math's what,s the real difference.

Before I start, what exactly is a "yobs?"

I'm guessing it's a degrading term used wherever it came from...


This is despicable and because of the stupidity I say those two teenagers
are given a REAL long term that suits them that way they can have much
time to think of what they've done.

A poor baby is suffering at that precise moment and they themselves
are preventing it's possible rescuer from pursuing his job to save another.
If the baby had died I would have said 'life in prison'!


Another thing I must point out, they themselves were putting their life
on the line. Do you know how dangerous it is to be messing around under
the wings of the chopper when it's spinning?! Those things have the
strength to decapitize you before you know it. They could have won the
Darwin Award if they hadn't been stopped.

From what I read he took the pilot by the throat and made threats.
Big mistake you idiots, because I hope to God that these morons
are forever condemed to remember this act of idiocy with regret.

How in the hell were they able to do what they did? Wasn't there any
guards or nearby watchmen. What about the guy who is supposed to
clear around the aircraft? Or I maybe I missed that..


Still I want to know what "yobs" mean???

Still I want to know what "yobs" mean???

A 'yob' is, according to the Urban Dictionary:

The antithesis of what a good boy should be - rude, obnoxious, violent and stupid. Formed by spelling 'boy' bacwards, it was coined in England in the 18th century as it was very popular amongst upperclasses to speak backwards at the time.

Still I want to know what "yobs" mean???

Yobs=rude noisy and agresive but i think we can find far better words for them can't we??

Originally Posted by Don

A 'yob' is, according to the Urban Dictionary:

The antithesis of what a good boy should be - rude, obnoxious, violent and stupid. Formed by spelling 'boy' bacwards, it was coined in England in the 18th century as it was very popular amongst upperclasses to speak backwards at the time.

Oh, now it make's sense.

Originally Posted by fubar

Still I want to know what "yobs" mean???

Yobs=rude noisy and agresive but i think we can find far better words for them can't we??

I certainly can - SCUM! All you need to do is pick up a paper, talk to your neighbours, listen to your car radio, watch the TV news, or BBC 1"s crimewatch, talk to people at work, they are in the news and local gossip all the time; everything from damaging ambulances to setting light to peoples dogs and cats. All those things - plus a lot more.

I have a small example of how i've been affected by the youth in my neighbourhood. They decided to hold a party in on of the fields past our house. During that night they stole two of the next door neighbours bikes and stole the next door neighbours nome and used it to scratch my car from one end of the other and left the nome sitting on my roof.

The neighbour being angry collected their tents the next day and put them in his shed. In retaliation they came back and did further and more extensive damage to my car.

In my opinion they are like terrorists in training. You live in fear of reporting them because you don't know what they will do to you in retaliation. It's impossible to catch them and if you did you may end up being beat up for your efforts to save your property from being damaged.

I for one would like to see the issue addressed affectively. It is true that some of these children grow up to be contributing members of society, however not all of them do, they re-offend and end up committing worse crimes. Why not catch them while they are young and address the issue? Perhaps there would be less need for jails and the revolving door system we have for justice.

Why not have work gangs for these kids who seem to have endless amounts of energy to go out at night and raise a ruckus. They would learn valuable skills, we would have tasks done that we normally pay skilled people to do, freeing them up to do more meaningful tasks.

The other issue with this is it starts much younger then teenage years as my partner mentioned. Many of these kids live in very small homes and are often kicked out of the house as a necessity for sanity. They have no where to go or anything to do that is of any value to themselves or the community. When they are to old to play with dinky cars in the sandbox what is left for them? There are no community centers for them to get connected with the community they live in.

There are many things that could be done to address the issues but no one thing would fix the problem. An overhaul is needed.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I have a small example of how I've been affected by the youth in my neighborhood. They decided to hold a party in on of the fields past our house. During that night they stole two of the next door neighbors bikes and stole the next door neighbors nome and used it to scratch my car from one end of the other and left the nome sitting on my roof.

The neighbor being angry collected their tents the next day and put them in his shed. In retaliation they came back and did further and more extensive damage to my car.

In my opinion they are like terrorists in training. You live in fear of reporting them because you don't know what they will do to you in retaliation. It's impossible to catch them and if you did you may end up being beat up for your efforts to save your property from being damaged.

We have much of the same here And the police seem powerless to do anything we seem to have a gang war going on at the minute.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I for one would like to see the issue addressed affectively. It is true that some of these children grow up to be contributing members of society, however not all of them do, they re-offend and end up committing worse crimes. Why not catch them while they are young and address the issue? Perhaps there would be less need for jails and the revolving door system we have for justice.

Catching the young seem a good idea what would you recommend catching the future criminal in the womb is that early enough

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Why not have work gangs for these kids who seem to have endless amounts of energy to go out at night and raise a ruckus. They would learn valuable skills, we would have tasks done that we normally pay skilled people to do, freeing them up to do more meaningful tasks.

Whilst it seems a good idea to have them work in chain gangs it far to easy to abuse as their are people who would take advantage of the cheap labor as we see happening in China commonly call slavery.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

There are no community centers for them to get connected with the community they live in.

No one to run them either People have no free time to run these places anymore there to busy trying to pay bills these days as most community centerers rely on volunteers. People are either to scared to busy or it cost to much to insure, to much red tape, to much interference Health and safety.To much of everything really. All the above are examples of how hard it is to set up a community centerer
The fact is the only people who can afford to do such a thing is the Government or big business's. But apparently were all skint.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

There are many things that could be done to address the issues but no one thing would fix the problem. An overhaul is needed.

We should fix the problem as this is down to us.

Originally Posted by Tootrue

I was utterly disgusted to read about two teenage yobs attacking the pilot of an air ambulance and delaying a baby getting treatment for scalds. The story is here. I want to know how the government is going to tackle this huge problem.

Criminal Damage and public order were the two charges filed?

Isnt it odd that it is a crime to obstruct a police officer and to assault a police officer yet when the obstruction and assault is directed at a person in the process of saving a life it is not considered suitable for criminal action to be taken.
Add to that the further risk to the life of the baby, wouldnt that also be a suitable additional charge, attempted Murder perhaps?

I think that the police and the CPS need to rethink their ways when it comes to dealing with these types of criminals, yes they are relatavly minor crimes but they could cause serious situations.

I understand your arguments fubar, I worked with youth for a time. But they do respond to proper therapeutic intervention. Everyone knows how costly it is, and why wouldn't it be up to our government to provide such centers? There are plenty of people who are trained beyond the standards the government sets for youth care, however you won't find them working with youth because the ones who know what they are doing know that they cannot do their job with the government tying their hands behind their back and told to do their job. When i worked in the helping industry in canada i worked in a very experimental residential home for youth that could not and would not fit into any of the government programs offered. We had highly trained psychologist, and a team from differing educational backgrounds, I was the life skills coach and addictions counsellor for the team and others were trained in Youth care, behavioural management, etc. We were free to make up our own care plans for each youth without the restraints that many other residential care units had. We had many successes in the three years of operation however it was closed down due to the cost of the program. A victim of the canadian budget cuts that we will soon be feeling on this side of the pond.

I applied for other jobs after it closed and while i was offered many jobs i was unable to work for any of the organizations as i would not of been able to do what it takes to change the lives of the Youth. It takes money, highly trained and specialized groups of individuals who not only know what to do but care enough to do it.

Criminals are not made in the womb, they are made in the world that does not see the value of something good just because they didn't need it or have it when they were growing up. Society is made of of more then the middle and upper class in fact it is the poor and the working poor that make up the bulk of society, yet their needs seem to be unimportant to the few who pull the strings of the pubic purse.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I understand your arguments fubar, I worked with youth for a time. But they do respond to proper therapeutic intervention. Everyone knows how costly it is, and why wouldn't it be up to our government to provide such centers? There are plenty of people who are trained beyond the standards the government sets for youth care, however you won't find them working with youth because the ones who know what they are doing know that they cannot do their job with the government tying their hands behind their back and told to do their job. When i worked in the helping industry in canada i worked in a very experimental residential home for youth that could not and would not fit into any of the government programs offered. We had highly trained psychologist, and a team from differing educational backgrounds, I was the life skills coach and addictions counsellor for the team and others were trained in Youth care, behavioural management, etc. We were free to make up our own care plans for each youth without the restraints that many other residential care units had. We had many successes in the three years of operation however it was closed down due to the cost of the program. A victim of the canadian budget cuts that we will soon be feeling on this side of the pond.

I applied for other jobs after it closed and while i was offered many jobs i was unable to work for any of the organizations as i would not of been able to do what it takes to change the lives of the Youth. It takes money, highly trained and specialized groups of individuals who not only know what to do but care enough to do it.

Criminals are not made in the womb, they are made in the world that does not see the value of something good just because they didn't need it or have it when they were growing up. Society is made of of more then the middle and upper class in fact it is the poor and the working poor that make up the bulk of society, yet their needs seem to be unimportant to the few who pull the strings of the pubic purse.

Can I ask a simple question? Are there any signs the coalition is listening

Originally Posted by soloman

Can I ask a simple question? Are there any signs the coalition is listening

I'am here, it seems to me your looking for criminals in all the wrong places try 10 Dirt St SW1 and the surrounding environs.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I understand your arguments fubar, I worked with youth for a time. But they do respond to proper therapeutic intervention. Everyone knows how costly it is, and why wouldn't it be up to our government to provide such centers? There are plenty of people who are trained beyond the standards the government sets for youth care, however you won't find them working with youth because the ones who know what they are doing know that they cannot do their job with the government tying their hands behind their back and told to do their job. When i worked in the helping industry in canada i worked in a very experimental residential home for youth that could not and would not fit into any of the government programs offered. We had highly trained psychologist, and a team from differing educational backgrounds, I was the life skills coach and addictions counsellor for the team and others were trained in Youth care, behavioural management, etc. We were free to make up our own care plans for each youth without the restraints that many other residential care units had. We had many successes in the three years of operation however it was closed down due to the cost of the program. A victim of the canadian budget cuts that we will soon be feeling on this side of the pond.

yes the budget cuts will bight into the areas that nead it most it's something we all sould be a little ashamed of to be honest,

Originally Posted by crazylilting

I applied for other jobs after it closed and while i was offered many jobs i was unable to work for any of the organizations as i would not of been able to do what it takes to change the lives of the Youth. It takes money, highly trained and specialized groups of individuals who not only know what to do but care enough to do it.

sorry to hear it, you do have to worry what will become of the people left behind without the specialized treatment

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Criminals are not made in the womb, they are made in the world that does not see the value of something good just because they didn't need it or have it when they were growing up. .

Catching the young seem a good idea what, would you recommend catching the future criminal in the womb is that early enough

I'm sorry crazylilting it was my atemp at irony I't appears I'm not very good at it lol.

Originally Posted by crazylilting

Society is made of of more then the middle and upper class in fact it is the poor and the working poor that make up the bulk of society, yet their needs seem to be unimportant to the few who pull the strings of the pubic purse

Unfortunately all we seem to see are cuts that effect the most venerable within society today but i do find it a bit odd to say the least Odd to the point that the more you think about it, the more it looks as if it was intended??? we should at least ask why, As we have many different way to lance this boil(the boil being the debt that is)Don't you think, a little off thread there sorry, Now to get back on topic i still think its down to us the us being the parents and the adoptive parents(the government that is)the bucks stops with us in the end we are the ones who pay the price of these yobs not the Governments as don't forget as almost everyone does It's our money.
The results of all this is ultimately we pay so why is it then we can't do anything about it, As their's more than one way to make us poor Don't you think??????? as in haveing a poor sense of morality,we all should look to ourselves to sort this out we as parents we are responsibly for our children and that responsibility should extend beyond the immediate family.

Originally Posted by octopus

Very simple! But unfortunatley the circles "Hug a Hoodie" Cameron and his party faithful move in know very little about yob crime (about as much as I would know about running Eton); if they did, they wouldn"t anounce such pathetic measures to deal with it - "increase the price of drinks". With nonesense like that, you just know, they haven"t got a clue what they are talking about.

[ ... ]

David Cameron needs to meet these people- not just the Eton- Oxford - THE GUARDS brigade, who just organise inquries to youth crime - then just open more youth centers to give them something to do. Too expensive, frankly too much trouble - and why the hell should we?. My way is MUCH cheaper AND A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE. If he adopted this train of thought he could become the new Thatcher - if not better; at the moment he has a long way to go.

I don't agree that the failure of the justice system to tackle youth crime (well, all crime) is a reflection of the lack of exposure to it of people at the top in government. Recommendations and advice on what policies need adopting and what laws need to be changed and how are made and implemented come from much further down the chain of command and from people who do have many years expertise in their given field, and whilst the buck does stop at the top, I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone in that position to have the same knowledge and understanding of those with specialist jobs who are supposed to advise them. The failure has come from multiple causes within the government and civil service and it will take years of a complete change of attitude right the way from the bottom up to have a serious long term impact.

I'm probably tempting fate, but just because I've never been hassled in the street, never been mugged, never had anything vandalised, never had my house broken into and never had a car stolen, nor to the best of my knowledge ever been involved in any way with people who commit such crimes, doesn't mean that I'm not as aware as everyone else of the wider impact of crime on society, nor does it mean I'd be any the less capable of organising those who are, to do something about it. Why should it be any different in government; it's people with very wide abilities we need as leaders, not those with narrower specialities.

We certainly need strong leadership, but the changes themselves need to be within the entire justice system, and to blame those at the top for lack of understanding is in my view more of an excuse for venting anger than anything.

Originally Posted by fubar

yes the budget cuts will bight into the areas that nead it most it's something we all sould be a little ashamed of to be honest,
sorry to hear it, you do have to worry what will become of the people left behind without the specialized treatment

I'm sorry crazylilting it was my atemp at irony I't appears I'm not very good at it lol.
Unfortunately all we seem to see are cuts that effect the most venerable within society today but i do find it a bit odd to say the least Odd to the point that the more you think about it, the more it looks as if it was intended??? we should at least ask why, As we have many different way to lance this boil(the boil being the debt that is)Don't you think, a little off thread there sorry, Now to get back on topic i still think its down to us the us being the parents and the adoptive parents(the government that is)the bucks stops with us in the end we are the ones who pay the price of these yobs not the Governments as don't forget as almost everyone does It's our money.
The results of all this is ultimately we pay so why is it then we can't do anything about it, As their's more than one way to make us poor Don't you think??????? as in haveing a poor sense of morality,we all should look to ourselves to sort this out we as parents we are responsibly for our children and that responsibility should extend beyond the immediate family.

You bring up some good points. And i'm sorry your irony was lost on me... I'm not good at spotting such things. I'm a firm believer that it takes more then a family unit to bring up a child, it takes a community to bring up our children. It may seem strange but the reality of isolation or lack of community spirit can contribute to a lack of connectivity that supports the feeling of not belonging to something bigger then yourself. Do you want the future of your community to rest on what parents teach their children? Parents are only parents till they are of age, thank goodness in some cases. What they teach their children can depend on their experience of the world around them, which is reinforced by what the children experience.

I think we are finally coming to a point where the cost of poverty is affecting the life style of the lower middle class as well as the middle class. You could interpet it as not my problem and we are paying vast amounts of debt because of the problems the poor cause but what caused the poor to be poor? Why is the minimum wage way below to poverty line, and how do we justify that?

Society causes the problems and then blames the victims of that system for placing a burden on the taxpayers lap. We say we educate everyone, but do we? My partner is a teacher at a local college who is dumbfounded at the level of basic literacy and numeracy she encounters on a daily basis. So we are failing to educate our society, which as we've learned is one of the main causes of poverty.

Our money as you put it is being used to perpetuate the problems that we have, creating more need for more government and more money. I propose that centralization, or handing over our money to a government to solve our problems is not the solution to many of the problems we face today. Do you know how easy it would be to catch theft rings? It would be as simple as a few GPS tags in random shops that get targeted. You could trace the whole ring in detail and close it down in in organized effort. To preserve a way of life we need to share that way of life with all of our citizens, not in some communist way but is a way of fairness. I worked for a company in canada that shared wealth instead of hired and exploited it's employees and seen my income rise from 10 dollars an hour to in some cases 150 dollars an hour depending on the job and the company still made money because they were able to expand because their employees had a huge vested interest in it's success.

We talk about morality but how moral is it to have a class system? Look at the system we live in and tell me it it is moral? It is exploitive at best, and then ask why we have so much crime? It is easy to say that parents should be more responsible but we as a society do not show we are responsible for the problems that exist, we try to shift that responsibility on those who are unable to bare the consequences.

Originally Posted by Midas

I don't agree that the failure of the justice system to tackle youth crime (well, all crime) is a reflection of the lack of exposure to it of people at the top in government. Recommendations and advice on what policies need adopting and what laws need to be changed and how are made and implemented come from much further down the chain of command and from people who do have many years expertise in their given field, and whilst the buck does stop at the top, I think it's unrealistic to expect anyone in that position to have the same knowledge and understanding of those with specialist jobs who are supposed to advise them. The failure has come from multiple causes within the government and civil service and it will take years of a complete change of attitude right the way from the bottom up to have a serious long term impact.

I'm probably tempting fate, but just because I've never been hassled in the street, never been mugged, never had anything vandalised, never had my house broken into and never had a car stolen, nor to the best of my knowledge ever been involved in any way with people who commit such crimes, doesn't mean that I'm not as aware as everyone else of the wider impact of crime on society, nor does it mean I'd be any the less capable of organising those who are, to do something about it. Why should it be any different in government; it's people with very wide abilities we need as leaders, not those with narrower specialities.

We certainly need strong leadership, but the changes themselves need to be within the entire justice system, and to blame those at the top for lack of understanding is in my view more of an excuse for venting anger than anything.

What I am saying Midas is, we need to work as a team. You can"t expect a man such as the PM to understand inner city problems. Mr Cameron, and a lot of his fellow members of goverment come from the elite - they too, probably, have never encounted the problems you mention above (firstly, these yobs would have to mug their SAS minders), you"re all very lucky - I have, fallen victim on more than one occasion - and I personaly know more people that have and they say to Mr Cameron and his "sidekicks", what I say - get among the problem.

likewise, I wouldn"t know how to entertain the Queen at dinner; so wouldn"t it make sense for me to talk to the people that do. Also, a point to remember, Henry Ford knew very little about cars, when he started out - but he found about them from people that did. All I am saying is, talk to the people that know the answers - in this case the millions who live among these problems, including myself. As the the late Henry Ford would testify, association on purpose, can really pay.

We are not asking to run the show - just point the likes of Mr Cameron in the right direction - it could really pay him to do so, he knows very little about yobs - you only have to hear the words "hug a hoodie", to know that, among other things.

P.S. I hope it hasn"t tempted fate - but everybody reading this post could be a potential victim; some are prepared to even kill - then later laugh about it in court.

Lets examine the role models.

Politicians who lie, cheat and steal from the taxpayer. Business people and services suppliers insurance and financials who along with solictors and accountants predate upon the state finances and the people of this country. We employ police at an wildly overated expense, who murder and prey upon the people like vampires and, a justice system which lacks any sembalance of justice for the foregoing. They are free to plunder at will.
The poor the deprived and the disassociated are the main victims of our so called judicial system and it would be more mercifull to hang them than to subject them to todays evil version of 'justice'. At least they do less harm then the so called society they have to live in.

Originally Posted by octopus

What I am saying Midas is, we need to work as a team. You can"t expect a man such as the PM to understand inner city problems. Mr Cameron, and a lot of his fellow members of goverment come from the elite - they too, probably, have never encounted the problems you mention above (firstly, these yobs would have to mug their SAS minders), you"re all very lucky - I have, fallen victim on more than one occasion - and I personaly know more people that have and they say to Mr Cameron and his "sidekicks", what I say - get among the problem.

likewise, I wouldn"t know how to entertain the Queen at dinner; so wouldn"t it make sense for me to talk to the people that do. Also, a point to remember, Henry Ford knew very little about cars, when he started out - but he found about them from people that did. All I am saying is, talk to the people that know the answers - in this case the millions who live among these problems, including myself. As the the late Henry Ford would testify, association on purpose, can really pay.

We are not asking to run the show - just point the likes of Mr Cameron in the right direction - it could really pay him to do so, he knows very little about yobs - you only have to hear the words "hug a hoodie", to know that, among other things.

P.S. I hope it hasn"t tempted fate - but everybody reading this post could be a potential victim; some are prepared to even kill - then later laugh about it in court.

You make some very good points, David Cameron really does need to hear about the problems from people who have suffered and attempted to deal with them.

All of us could assist in that by contacting your local MP, especially if they are part of the coalition.

Originally Posted by soloman

You make some very good points, David Cameron really does need to hear about the problems from people who have suffered and attempted to deal with them.

All of us could assist in that by contacting your local MP, especially if they are part of the coalition.

I can't disagree with that, but it's useless to speculate without knowing just what advice and from whom David Cameron has received on this particular topic. For all we know there could well be an advisory panel or two comprised of people who have lifetimes' experience of inner city crime working within the Ministry of Justice. There are certainly plenty of precedents for it.

Basically what I'm saying is just because he's not experienced the problems first hand and has uttered just a few words about it, which have perhaps been taken out of context, doesn't mean it's not either being taken seriously or there aren't steps being taken to tackle the problem and its causes.