Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Broken Britain
Britain has a broken society. This is a dark portrait but it is very true. Children are left to rot and they grew into animals. Binge drinking, drug addiction, a culture of disrespect and antisocial behavior, teenage pregnancies and abortions, knife and gun culture are part and parcel of every day life in all big city centers. The teenage pregnancies and the sheer madness of sex education teach nothing about morality. British society is suffering from unprecedented social decay and societal breakdown, according to the Children’s Society shocking evidence. Britain has more broken families than other countries. British children are rougher with each other, and live more riskily in terms of alcohol, drugs and teenage pregnancies. Britain's rate of teenage pregnancy is the highest in Western Europe. According to official figures, nearly half of all babies are now born out of wedlock. They are more likely to suffer social, mental and emotional problems. Research has revealed that migrants in Britain are more likely to have children within marriage. The teaching of sex education could not curb teenage pregnancies. Infact, it has simply increased. This is a clear indication of broken society. It is an eye opening for the Muslim community who sends their children to state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

In broken Britain, the break downs of family are ripping apart communities. According to a report, Scottish schools like English schools have become home for rapes, gun and knife culture, drug dealing, gang culture and racism. It is a horrendous portrayal of the collapse of civilized life and of human despair. Carrying weapons is becoming the norms, violence is “routine” and families are terrorized by gangs. Every parent is worried about his child being indoctrinated into the idea that gay and sexual promiscuity is “normal” modes of behavior. Homosexuality was regarded as mental illness but now blue eyed western educated elites are its defenders and promoters. The spectre of hidden epidemic of sex crimes inside Britain’s classrooms has emerged after Scotland Yard revealed there have been nearly 900 rapes or sex attacks in schools. The vast majority of victims were school children under the age of 16. As many as one in three were under 11. According to official figures, hundreds of children under the age of 12 were treated for addiction to drink and drugs.

Children are being taught that sexually transmitted diseases could be easily treated and there is no acknowledgement of the emotional harm of premature sexual activity. The truth is that more sex education and contraception are provided to children and teenagers, the more they fall pregnant. Studies have shown that access to contraception and sex education, sexual activity and conception and pregnancy rates go up. The sexual health of young Londoners is a “major public health issue” and still among the worst in the country, despite innovative projects and improvements in services.

The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a
safe environment with an Islamic ethos. Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith. The significance and value of Muslim schools is that the Islamic religion imposed obligations of good citizenship, keeping the peace and paying taxes. While ambition of state school is to get children humping each other before they are out of primary school and giving them parenting classes when they are fourteen to help the girls cope with the babies they will have conceived at thirteen.
Iftikhar Ahmad



.

When meaning is lost - we become psychotic

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Children are left to rot and they grew into animals.

To be fair we are all animals anyway.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Binge drinking,

Binge drinking has always been big in the UK. The UK and it's colonies are some of the biggest drinkers in the world. Plus what is wrong with heavy drinking, you can drink heavy and have no problems if you are smart.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

drug addiction,

Considering the UK went to war to promote addictive class A drugs, I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

teenage pregnancies and abortions,

Teenage pregnancies are not new, and if people want abortions, you don't have a right to stop them.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

sheer madness of sex education teach nothing about morality.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Britain's rate of teenage pregnancy is the highest in Western Europe. According to official figures, nearly half of all babies are now born out of wedlock. They are more likely to suffer social, mental and emotional problems. Research has revealed that migrants in Britain are more likely to have children within marriage. The teaching of sex education could not curb teenage pregnancies. Infact, it has simply increased. This is a clear indication of broken society.

Let me guess you are of the belief that we should be frigid, until the soul destroying thing that is marriage?

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Homosexuality was regarded as mental illness but now blue eyed western educated elites are its defenders and promoters.

So I presume you are one of the people that believe that Homosexuality is a mental illness?

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Children are being taught that sexually transmitted diseases could be easily treated and there is no acknowledgement of the emotional harm of premature sexual activity. The truth is that more sex education and contraception are provided to children and teenagers, the more they fall pregnant. Studies have shown that access to contraception and sex education, sexual activity and conception and pregnancy rates go up. The sexual health of young Londoners is a “major public health issue” and still among the worst in the country, despite innovative projects and improvements in services.

Most can be treated easily, so why lie? How do you define premature sex? Sex be before puberty, because I don't know anyone that does that? As I am 19, I can say with certainty that most people are plowing each other by the mid teens, and whats wrong with that. Most people I know would never consider unsafe sex, I know a guy who always uses 2 condoms when he has sex. Teaching abstinence is stupid, that is because the only teens who don't have sex are the ones that can't get any. No teen chooses to be abstinent, I guarantee you. Smoking is a "major public health issue", fast food is a "major public health issue". Also Abstinence won't always stop STDs, as far as I know Genital Warts can be transferred by skin to skin contact.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a
safe environment with an Islamic ethos.

Ban religious schools.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

To be fair we are all animals anyway.



Binge drinking has always been big in the UK. The UK and it's colonies are some of the biggest drinkers in the world. Plus what is wrong with heavy drinking, you can drink heavy and have no problems if you are smart.



Considering the UK went to war to promote addictive class A drugs, I am not surprised.


Teenage pregnancies are not new, and if people want abortions, you don't have a right to stop them.





Let me guess you are of the belief that we should be frigid, until the soul destroying thing that is marriage?



So I presume you are one of the people that believe that Homosexuality is a mental illness?




Most can be treated easily, so why lie? How do you define premature sex? Sex be before puberty, because I don't know anyone that does that? As I am 19, I can say with certainty that most people are plowing each other by the mid teens, and whats wrong with that. Most people I know would never consider unsafe sex, I know a guy who always uses 2 condoms when he has sex. Teaching abstinence is stupid, that is because the only teens who don't have sex are the ones that can't get any. No teen chooses to be abstinent, I guarantee you. Smoking is a "major public health issue", fast food is a "major public health issue". Also Abstinence won't always stop STDs, as far as I know Genital Warts can be transferred by skin to skin contact.




Ban religious schools.

No, I want to open a Christian School in Persia, and I want funding from the government. Do you think they will be as supinely accomadating as the stupid British politians are with our money.

Originally Posted by coalition

No, I want to open a Christian School in Persia, and I want funding from the government. Do you think they will be as supinely accomadating as the stupid British politians are with our money.

Isn't bad enough that Muslims have their own schools in the middle east, imagine how awful it'd be if they gave those dam Christian's their own schools.

It is a strange person who , when he is not at ease in the country he has elected to live in, wants to make it like the country he ran away from.

Originally Posted by coalition

It is a strange person who , when he is not at ease in the country he has elected to live in, wants to make it like the country he ran away from.

Every ethnic group does that, do I need to point out again that the British were the nation that practised that the most prolifically.

They have 'Schools' these must be the ones we started, the populations I remember were in abject slavery until we showed them differently.

Well, it was bloody cold in grass huts.

Originally Posted by coalition

Well, it was bloody cold in grass huts.

Lol, that's your comeback?

Phail!!!!

To be fair standards of living would have been alot higher before colonisation.

History is not supportive on that point but does record that the ladies were anybodies to share.

Originally Posted by coalition

History is not supportive on that point but does record that the ladies were anybodies to share.

Based on what group?

I'am not quite clear if they were the the 'Group' which preferred dining on juicy fat buttocks or the large haunch of leg group with an eye for dessert. I could do further research if it is important.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Broken Britain
Britain has a broken society. This is a dark portrait but it is very true. Children are left to rot and they grew into animals. Binge drinking, drug addiction, a culture of disrespect and antisocial behavior, teenage pregnancies and abortions, knife and gun culture are part and parcel of every day life in all big city centers.

[ ... ]

The significance and value of Muslim schools is that the Islamic religion imposed obligations of good citizenship, keeping the peace and paying taxes. While ambition of state school is to get children humping each other before they are out of primary school and giving them parenting classes when they are fourteen to help the girls cope with the babies they will have conceived at thirteen.

Yes, in many ways Britain is a broken society, and I'll agree that in part this has been caused by a lack of moral direction, or at least a lack of moral responsibility. But the only way that this is going to be corrected - and it'll be a very long term job - is based around a combination of far better crime prevention with stiffer and more appropriate sentences rather than the liberal "oh dear, poor boy, he's had a hard life" excuses we've increasingly seen over the last couple of decades, and better all round education which emphasises the social aspects of life as much as anything else.

But that education should not be religiously based, whether by Muslims or Christians or Jews or any other religious group. That on its own simply introduces a totally unfounded bias into the lives of the young and impressionable people, leaving them with a false and one-sided view of the world and a sense of 'them and us' which inevitably causes more divisions, in particular when imposed by a primitive and domineering religion such as Islam. Religion, if we're to have it at all, should be kept solely in the churches and people's private homes; there's no place for it in either government or schools other than in a strictly neutral and objective comparative sense.

Originally Posted by Midas

Yes, in many ways Britain is a broken society, and I'll agree that in part this has been caused by a lack of moral direction, or at least a lack of moral responsibility.

A lack of moral direction, seriously Midas. Everyone is moral, morality is up to the individual. If someone has different moral beliefs to you, it does not mean that they lack moral direction, it means that they have different morals to you. There are no set Morals that you either follow or you are immoral.

Originally Posted by Midas

But the only way that this is going to be corrected - and it'll be a very long term job - is based around a combination of far better crime prevention with stiffer and more appropriate sentences rather than the liberal "oh dear, poor boy, he's had a hard life" excuses we've increasingly seen over the last couple of decades, and better all round education which emphasises the social aspects of life as much as anything else.

Stiffer sentences won't do a thing Midas, do criminals go "oh maybe I won't commit this crime because I may go to prison". No they don't, all stiffer sentences will do is cost alot of money. Possibly the UK should focus on diversification, in regards to the economy.

Serious crime is more prolific in poorer areas, so I'd have thought getting the economy growing is one of the best ways of getting crime etc down. Or possibly look at your fellow EU'ers with low crime rates, look at how they have achieved this. Or put alot more money into metropolitan police forces, there are so many unemployed finding more new recruits can't be hard. Get more cops, get them patrolling the streets. Get them into the communities. Community Policing | Home Office

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Broken Britain
Britain has a broken society. This is a dark portrait but it is very true. Children are left to rot and they grew into animals. Binge drinking, drug addiction, a culture of disrespect and antisocial behavior, teenage pregnancies and abortions, knife and gun culture are part and parcel of every day life in all big city centers. The teenage pregnancies and the sheer madness of sex education teach nothing about morality. British society is suffering from unprecedented social decay and societal breakdown, according to the Children’s Society shocking evidence. Britain has more broken families than other countries. British children are rougher with each other, and live more riskily in terms of alcohol, drugs and teenage pregnancies. Britain's rate of teenage pregnancy is the highest in Western Europe. According to official figures, nearly half of all babies are now born out of wedlock. They are more likely to suffer social, mental and emotional problems. Research has revealed that migrants in Britain are more likely to have children within marriage. The teaching of sex education could not curb teenage pregnancies. Infact, it has simply increased. This is a clear indication of broken society. It is an eye opening for the Muslim community who sends their children to state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers.

In broken Britain, the break downs of family are ripping apart communities. According to a report, Scottish schools like English schools have become home for rapes, gun and knife culture, drug dealing, gang culture and racism. It is a horrendous portrayal of the collapse of civilized life and of human despair. Carrying weapons is becoming the norms, violence is “routine” and families are terrorized by gangs. Every parent is worried about his child being indoctrinated into the idea that gay and sexual promiscuity is “normal” modes of behavior. Homosexuality was regarded as mental illness but now blue eyed western educated elites are its defenders and promoters. The spectre of hidden epidemic of sex crimes inside Britain’s classrooms has emerged after Scotland Yard revealed there have been nearly 900 rapes or sex attacks in schools. The vast majority of victims were school children under the age of 16. As many as one in three were under 11. According to official figures, hundreds of children under the age of 12 were treated for addiction to drink and drugs.

Children are being taught that sexually transmitted diseases could be easily treated and there is no acknowledgement of the emotional harm of premature sexual activity. The truth is that more sex education and contraception are provided to children and teenagers, the more they fall pregnant. Studies have shown that access to contraception and sex education, sexual activity and conception and pregnancy rates go up. The sexual health of young Londoners is a “major public health issue” and still among the worst in the country, despite innovative projects and improvements in services.

The demand for Muslim schools comes from parents who want their children a
safe environment with an Islamic ethos. Parents see Muslim schools where children can develop their Islamic Identity where they won't feel stigmatised for being Muslims and they can feel confident about their faith. The significance and value of Muslim schools is that the Islamic religion imposed obligations of good citizenship, keeping the peace and paying taxes. While ambition of state school is to get children humping each other before they are out of primary school and giving them parenting classes when they are fourteen to help the girls cope with the babies they will have conceived at thirteen.
Iftikhar Ahmad



.

I think Suicide bombings and spousal abuse are the way forward in resolving our social Issues, If you Iffi, would go and strap on one of theos highly fashionable Bomb Belts and head to the cradle of British immorality (Kinder scout, the very top of) at Midnight.Stand there for a while say a prayer or two then hit the detonator, that balst on that lonely moor will help immensly remove some of the immorality from the UK.

Iftikhar I fail to see why Islam should teach anybody anything, Muslims in the UK are statistically more likely to commit crimes, skip school and not go to university than their white equivalents. Most Islamic nations have some form of violent insurgency or quite active terrorist elements (in some cases extremely severe) and in general are among the least developed nations on Earth. So Islam clearly has nothing to do with solving societies problems.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Iftikhar I fail to see why Islam should teach anybody anything, Muslims in the UK are statistically more likely to commit crimes, skip school and not go to university than their white equivalents. Most Islamic nations have some form of violent insurgency or quite active terrorist elements (in some cases extremely severe) and in general are among the least developed nations on Earth. So Islam clearly has nothing to do with solving societies problems.

Quite, Islam is in approximately the same position with respect to society as a whole as Christianity was in Medieval times; in other words into a religious justification of killing, of control, of a mixture of domination and subjugation depending on your sex or current religion, and is completely at odds with any modern democratic society. A fine way to solve today's societal problems, as significant as some of them might be!

Originally Posted by coalition

They have 'Schools' these must be the ones we started, the populations I remember were in abject slavery until we showed them differently.

And Britain, as colonizers, gave them what, plundering of resources and enlightened slavery?

Originally Posted by Midas

But that education should not be religiously based, whether by Muslims or Christians or Jews or any other religious group. That on its own simply introduces a totally unfounded bias into the lives of the young and impressionable people, leaving them with a false and one-sided view of the world and a sense of 'them and us' which inevitably causes more divisions, in particular when imposed by a primitive and domineering religion such as Islam. Religion, if we're to have it at all, should be kept solely in the churches and people's private homes; there's no place for it in either government or schools other than in a strictly neutral and objective comparative sense.

Am I understanding that you mean there should be no religious schools, either public or private? I completely agree with you as to publicly funded schools, but not on the private (non publicly funded) religious schools. To me, it goes to a basic right of association that we try to respect in the U.S. Is it not so in the UK? A scheme like that might be gotten away with in the UK, and we are talking about the UK, I realize, but in the U.S. it would never fly. The mythical divide between church and state, in the U.S., would turn bloody very quickly.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

Iftikhar I fail to see why Islam should teach anybody anything, Muslims in the UK are statistically more likely to commit crimes, skip school and not go to university than their white equivalents. Most Islamic nations have some form of violent insurgency or quite active terrorist elements (in some cases extremely severe) and in general are among the least developed nations on Earth. So Islam clearly has nothing to do with solving societies problems.

I think the statistics show that people of Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Kosovan and Somali extraction are more likely to commit crimes, underachieve at / skip school. When you compare the stats for white working class and boys and boys from the above mentioned groups, you'll find the educational (non)attainment levels are more or less the same.

Religion is not the cause, culture is.

Originally Posted by Don

And Britain, as colonizers, gave them what, plundering of resources and enlightened slavery?

Cricket as well!

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley

Cricket as well!

Oh Snap! I totally forgot cricket. Forgive me.

Originally Posted by Midas

Yes, in many ways Britain is a broken society, and I'll agree that in part this has been caused by a lack of moral direction, or at least a lack of moral responsibility. But the only way that this is going to be corrected - and it'll be a very long term job - is based around a combination of far better crime prevention with stiffer and more appropriate sentences rather than the liberal "oh dear, poor boy, he's had a hard life" excuses we've increasingly seen over the last couple of decades, and better all round education which emphasises the social aspects of life as much as anything else.

But that education should not be religiously based, whether by Muslims or Christians or Jews or any other religious group. That on its own simply introduces a totally unfounded bias into the lives of the young and impressionable people, leaving them with a false and one-sided view of the world and a sense of 'them and us' which inevitably causes more divisions, in particular when imposed by a primitive and domineering religion such as Islam. Religion, if we're to have it at all, should be kept solely in the churches and people's private homes; there's no place for it in either government or schools other than in a strictly neutral and objective comparative sense.

What you refer to as Broken ie Society, your heroine, Thatcher, denied there was any such thing as society.
One fundamental question is. why do Muslims almost tear the doors off to get in here and, having scarppered like rabbits from the hellholes they ran away from: why are they so industrious about trying to make England exactly like the place they abandoned. And please don't give the usual guff about us going to their countries, we were begged by their masters, as mercenaries, to save them from the French.and latterly the Ottoman Empire.

From my own experience, after serving in the places they left, locusts bring less disasters.
Now I wait for the screams of 'Racist', sorry, I've really never cared that much. All I ask if your not happy here .... leave! But please stop whingeing its not British.

Originally Posted by coalition

One fundamental question is. why do Muslims almost tear the doors off to get in here and, having scarppered like rabbits from the hellholes they ran away from: why are they so industrious about trying to make England exactly like the place they abandoned.

What the?

Originally Posted by coalition

And please don't give the usual guff about us going to their countries, we were begged by their masters, as mercenaries, to save them from the French.and latterly the Ottoman Empire.

Fro a Brit, you seem to know nothing to know British History. The British asked Muslims in the middle east to help them to defeat the Ottoman empire.

McMahon Hussein Correspondence, 1915-1916


This series of letters between the Sharif of Mecca, Hussein bin Ali, and British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, discussed the future of the Middle East's Arab countries. In one letter McMahon stated that Palestine was to be included in the Arab state

The Hussein-McMahon Correspondence

Which resulted in the Arab revolt.
Arab Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now the British govt, had promised independence for the people of the middle east if they helped Britain to defeat the the ottomans. Now the British being British decided that agreement wasn't to their liking and signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement behind the backs of the Arabs. The Sykes-Picot Agreement was a secret agreement were Britain decided to divide the middle east up between itself and France.

You were begging them for help to defeat the Turks.

Originally Posted by coalition

From my own experience, after serving in the places they left, locusts bring less disasters.
Now I wait for the screams of 'Racist', sorry, I've really never cared that much. All I ask if your not happy here .... leave! But please stop whingeing its not British.

Firstly whingeing is British
http://teepay.com/pictures/7710/larg...-poms.crop.jpg



You seem to be the one whinging, your so upset your white Christian hell hole, now has non-white and non-Christan people in it. You have nothing to back up your statement, apart from how some Muslims don't completely give up their culture and identity. You say that if people aren't happy with your racist beliefs then they should leave. Since you are the one making an issue about people from other cultures in your country, shouldn't you take your own advice and leave the UK?

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

What the?



Fro a Brit, you seem to know nothing to know British History. The British asked Muslims in the middle east to help them to defeat the Ottoman empire.

McMahon Hussein Correspondence, 1915-1916


This series of letters between the Sharif of Mecca, Hussein bin Ali, and British High Commissioner in Egypt, Sir Henry McMahon, discussed the future of the Middle East's Arab countries. In one letter McMahon stated that Palestine was to be included in the Arab state

The Hussein-McMahon Correspondence

Which resulted in the Arab revolt.
Arab Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now the British govt, had promised independence for the people of the middle east if they helped Britain to defeat the the ottomans. Now the British being British decided that agreement wasn't to their liking and signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement behind the backs of the Arabs. The Sykes-Picot Agreement was a secret agreement were Britain decided to divide the middle east up between itself and France.

You were begging them for help to defeat the Turks.




Firstly whingeing is British
http://teepay.com/pictures/7710/larg...-poms.crop.jpg



You seem to be the one whinging, your so upset your white Christian hell hole, now has non-white and non-Christan people in it. You have nothing to back up your statement, apart from how some Muslims don't completely give up their culture and identity. You say that if people aren't happy with your racist beliefs then they should leave. Since you are the one making an issue about people from other cultures in your country, shouldn't you take your own advice and leave the UK?

This is fun, you should audition for staff college lecturing, none of our English lecturers knew anything about that. Just one little Q. Were our, as you say, Arab saviours, supplying their own modern weapons, planes, tanks.etc. Personally I would consider they made a stupendous deal, most of the middle east, which they had none of before, for a bit of guerilla distraction, even if they mistakenly shot at us instead of the Turks. And, despite this massive effort we freed them from the Turks. Oh well, bloody Lawrence would have loved you - if I don't appear to.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

What the?

You seem to be the one whinging, your so upset your white Christian hell hole, now has non-white and non-Christan people in it. You have nothing to back up your statement, apart from how some Muslims don't completely give up their culture and identity. You say that if people aren't happy with your racist beliefs then they should leave. Since you are the one making an issue about people from other cultures in your country, shouldn't you take your own advice and leave the UK?

Many of us do not wish for immigrants to give up their culture and their identity, we merely wish for a few individuals to refrain from a few practices that are generally incompatible with the society and culture they have willingly and voluntarily moved to, i.e. demanding the introduction of sharia law, forced marriage, women being relegated to second-class citizens. For any society to function effectively and tolerate, respect and encourage difference, there must be some core common beliefs and values - sometimes this means excluding some cultural practices, it does not mean complete integration.

Also, coalition does raise a very good point, precisely why do immigrants (or at least some of them) wish to cling on to so many of the cultural practices belonging to the very country their fled? Kiwi, you seem to be inconsistent in that you defend the rights of some (immigrants) to practice the culture of the country they left whilst criticising those (people like coalition) for wishing to continue to reside in a society that maintains its own cultural practices.

Originally Posted by Don

Am I understanding that you mean there should be no religious schools, either public or private? I completely agree with you as to publicly funded schools, but not on the private (non publicly funded) religious schools. To me, it goes to a basic right of association that we try to respect in the U.S. Is it not so in the UK? A scheme like that might be gotten away with in the UK, and we are talking about the UK, I realize, but in the U.S. it would never fly. The mythical divide between church and state, in the U.S., would turn bloody very quickly.

Personally I don't think there should be any church-funded schools, public or private, but that's simply my own view.

Perhaps it's a bit of an oxymoron, but if are church-funded schools allowed (as indeed they are under the current law), I think that the only form of religion taught should be comparative, whereby each religion is looked at in turn and its pros and cons discussed; religion itself should not influence any part of our children's education. All that achieves is to fill the heads of our children with simplistic, incorrect and completely unproven ideas as if they were fact.

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley

Many of us do not wish for immigrants to give up their culture and their identity, we merely wish for a few individuals to refrain from a few practices that are generally incompatible with the society and culture they have willingly and voluntarily moved to, i.e. demanding the introduction of sharia law, forced marriage, women being relegated to second-class citizens. For any society to function effectively and tolerate, respect and encourage difference, there must be some core common beliefs and values - sometimes this means excluding some cultural practices, it does not mean complete integration.

Also, coalition does raise a very good point, precisely why do immigrants (or at least some of them) wish to cling on to so many of the cultural practices belonging to the very country their fled? Kiwi, you seem to be inconsistent in that you defend the rights of some (immigrants) to practice the culture of the country they left whilst criticising those (people like coalition) for wishing to continue to reside in a society that maintains its own cultural practices.

People travel the world regularly now-a-days. Few younger people will live in one country for their whole life, Should they completely change everything about themselves every-time you move to another country. For example most young people over-here have an OE (Overseas Experience) for a few years (or longer) after they graduate from Uni. Some go to Europe, others Asia, some adventurous ones trek through Africa. I presume there is something similar for you Brits?

What is the British Culture? My interpretation of the British culture is a mix of cultures (mainly European). I would argue that there is very little of the English culture that separates it from the very distinct cultures of the European cultures. If you can list things that specifically differentiate the UK's culture from elsewhere, I'd listen.

Isn't Britain a free society? Should all people in the UK have the right to live as they want? Or do you want the UK to be a totalitarian state. Most immigrants seem to embrace the local culture (in my experience with immigrants), so what if some don't. My understanding is SOME people want Sharia law, how does that make it fair to abuse all Muslims for the actions of a few. Even if they did introduce Sharia Law, as we all know Christianity and Islam are similar as they have the same roots. Isn't Britain supposedly a Christian nation with it's laws supposedly based on Christian values or whatever their spiel is? If so theoretically shouldn't there be little difference, if the christian spiel is correct?

Are you really in the position to talk about women's rights? The UK only gave women the vote in 1918, and they couldn't vote on the same terms as men until 1928. Also, I have heard that in western states more and more families are reverting back to traditional roles, were women are expected to stay at home to cook, clean and look after children. So if it is fine for increasing numbers of people from the west, why the differentiation from immigrating Muslims?

Originally Posted by Midas

Personally I don't think there should be any church-funded schools, public or private, but that's simply my own view.

Perhaps it's a bit of an oxymoron, but if are church-funded schools allowed (as indeed they are under the current law), I think that the only form of religion taught should be comparative, whereby each religion is looked at in turn and its pros and cons discussed; religion itself should not influence any part of our children's education. All that achieves is to fill the heads of our children with simplistic, incorrect and completely unproven ideas as if they were fact.

Also if you look at the issues that they are having with religious schools in Israel, (mainly with orthodox Jews). In alot of Orthodox schools academic subjects are being dropped completely so there is more time with religious studies. Many fair it could effect the Israeli economy really badly in the future.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

People travel the world regularly now-a-days. Few younger people will live in one country for their whole life, Should they completely change everything about themselves every-time you move to another country. For example most young people over-here have an OE (Overseas Experience) for a few years (or longer) after they graduate from Uni. Some go to Europe, others Asia, some adventurous ones trek through Africa. I presume there is something similar for you Brits?

What is the British Culture? My interpretation of the British culture is a mix of cultures (mainly European). I would argue that there is very little of the English culture that separates it from the very distinct cultures of the European cultures. If you can list things that specifically differentiate the UK's culture from elsewhere, I'd listen.

Isn't Britain a free society? Should all people in the UK have the right to live as they want? Or do you want the UK to be a totalitarian state. Most immigrants seem to embrace the local culture (in my experience with immigrants), so what if some don't. My understanding is SOME people want Sharia law, how does that make it fair to abuse all Muslims for the actions of a few. Even if they did introduce Sharia Law, as we all know Christianity and Islam are similar as they have the same roots. Isn't Britain supposedly a Christian nation with it's laws supposedly based on Christian values or whatever their spiel is? If so theoretically shouldn't there be little difference, if the christian spiel is correct?

Are you really in the position to talk about women's rights? The UK only gave women the vote in 1918, and they couldn't vote on the same terms as men until 1928. Also, I have heard that in western states more and more families are reverting back to traditional roles, were women are expected to stay at home to cook, clean and look after children. So if it is fine for increasing numbers of people from the west, why the differentiation from immigrating Muslims?

I expect that when a person moves to a new country that they abide by the rules and traditions of that country without trying to force their own traditions on the new country, this is not giving up ones Identity it is simple good manners.When I moved to the USA I didnt demand free health and dental care because "thats how we do it where I come from".I got a Job and purchased health insurance, its called being a responsible Adult, you get used to standing on your own two feet very quickly and soon realize that you dont need the government in every aspect of your life in order to be safe or secure.

As for Culture, the British Culture is far different from that of france or Germany but does closely resemble the Irish though there are differences.

Chronologically Islam is a newer religion than Christianity - but I would suggest that the two faiths, taken literally, are equally barbarous. The path of development in western societies isn't as a result of some evolution or re-invention of Christianity, but rather by our gradual abandonment of it and transition to broadly secular ideals.

These secular ideals, many of which are directly descended from the good parts of the abrahamic faiths, have also started to be abandoned in the last 30 years and replaced by the cult of the ego-centric individual. Whether you believe in god or not is far less likely to determine whether you become a teenage parent or get hooked on heroin than the circumstances in which you find yourself, the human interaction you experience and the opportunities for self-improvement that may be available to you.

All my articles are based on British news papers, DCSF and internet reports.
Leader of the Tory party used the term "Broken Britain".I did not add any
thing from myself.

London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make
British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the
Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.

The demand for state funded Muslim schools is in accordance with the law of
the land. Muslim community is not asking for any favour. Muslim community
pays all sorts of taxes and is contributing for the economic, social and
spiritual prosperity of the British society.

Bilingual Muslim Children need state funded muslim schools with bilingual
Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is
no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. It is
better to put your children in a toilet instead of in a state school. At
least if you put them in a toilet you can wash them after. If you put your
children into state schools, you are sending them to be indoctrinated with
the common views and beliefs of a society.Children are young and
impressionable. There is a danger that liberal, feminist, radicalist and
homosexual and lesbian teachers are implanting their values into children.
It is a well known fact that children tend to listen to their teachers
before their parents. There are hundreds of state and church schools where
Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be
designated as Muslim Community schools.

A Muslim is a citizen of this timy global village. He/she does not want to
become notoriously monolingual Brit. A Muslim needs to learn and be well
versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for
higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, he/she
needs to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community
languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

If you put your
children into state schools, you are sending them to be indoctrinated with
the common views and beliefs of a society.Children are young and
impressionable. There is a danger that liberal, feminist, radicalist and
homosexual and lesbian teachers are implanting their values into children.

Iftikhar, I have read your posts in the past and have not really thought of an adequate way to respond. On some threads, people have dissected certain points you make and disputed them, however, with this one, and most of all with the above quoted paragraph, I have only this to counter with:


XXXX XXX


PS: I'll take the infraction, it was worth it.

edited: think it's obvious what (it ended in "off") - Ops.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

Bilingual Muslim Children need state funded muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school.

The sentence I've emphasised really says it all about the way that most Muslims see the need for integration into the British society doesn't it?

It is better to put your children in a toilet instead of in a state school. At least if you put them in a toilet you can wash them after. If you put your children into state schools, you are sending them to be indoctrinated with the common views and beliefs of a society. Children are young and impressionable. There is a danger that liberal, feminist, radicalist and homosexual and lesbian teachers are implanting their values into children. It is a well known fact that children tend to listen to their teachers before their parents. There are hundreds of state and church schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim Community schools.

I quite agree that many state schools are way below par in many respects, and if course I quite agree that children are impressionable. That's why it's generally a good idea to have them exposed to a wide range of views from right across the spectrum of society as long as they're balanced views. Given the small number of liberal, feminist, radical and homosexual and lesbian teachers that there are, and the way that the education system doesn't tolerate bringing these into the classroom other than on a factual and comparative basis, I can only assume you'd rather have children brought up in ignorance of what's going to meet them in the world once they leave school, as well as having children being taught the biased, restrictive and anti-democratic views of Islam?

A Muslim is a citizen of this timy global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. A Muslim needs to learn and be well versed in Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. At the same time, he/she needs to learn and be well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Yes, many British people are monolingual, but as already been pointed out, English is the second most spoken language on the planet, not that far behind Chinese when second language speakers are taken into account. I agree that we should speak more foreign languages, and that for a small number of people, Arabic can be an advantage, but I hardly think that, or the learning of Urdu poetry, take any priority in British education!

You're fighting a losing battle here, and every time any Muslim tries to preach such separatist ideas or demands that they should receive priority over the indigenous British, all they do is turn yet more people against you. How can you not understand that?

Originally Posted by Midas

The sentence I've emphasised really says it all about the way that most Muslims see the need for integration into the British society doesn't it?

No, that is the attitude of one. The attitude of one is a terrible way to judge a group, imagine what we'd think of people in the US if we only judged them on Pauli, and completely ignored the other 300 million people.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

No, that is the attitude of one. The attitude of one is a terrible way to judge a group, imagine what we'd think of people in the US if we only judged them on Pauli, and completely ignored the other 300 million people.

With respect Kiwi, you don't live in Britain, you don't see what's happening here and you don't face the situation on a daily basis. Your parallel with Pauli is a totally different thing; that's one man's views, not the way, with very few exceptions, a whole culture doesn't wish to integrate.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

No, that is the attitude of one. The attitude of one is a terrible way to judge a group, imagine what we'd think of people in the US if we only judged them on Pauli, and completely ignored the other 300 million people.

Firstly, im not American, Im British, and why you bring me into this conversation is beyond me.Could you explain why you mentioned me and what exactly are you saying when you talk about Judging people on me?
You judge people because they work and pay Tax, follow the rules. always do the right thing, this is a problem with you?

Originally Posted by pauli007001

You judge people because they work and pay Tax, follow the rules. always do the right thing, this is a problem with you?

He's a socialist Pauli

Originally Posted by Midas

He's a socialist Pauli

Oh, don't bait him Midas.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

No, that is the attitude of one. The attitude of one is a terrible way to judge a group, imagine what we'd think of people in the US if we only judged them on Pauli, and completely ignored the other 300 million people.

I want to point out that pauli is not a US citizen, he's one of 'theirs', Kiwi.

Oops, I see that pauli has already pointed out he's not one of us, but is one of theirs. I should read the entire thread before posting.

Now move along people, nothing to see here except for two dead dogs and a hubcap.

Originally Posted by Iftikhar

If you put your children into state schools, you are sending them to be indoctrinated with the common views and beliefs of a society. Children are young and impressionable. There is a danger that liberal, feminist, radicalist and homosexual and lesbian teachers are implanting their values into children.

We live in a world in which there is no absolute truth. Attempting to shield kids from opposing/conflicting views is in itself far more damaging to them in the long run, as when they do encounter them (which they will), they will have no mechanism for responding rationally.