Originally Posted by scoobydoo

According to Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, there will be no cap on the salaries of Academy heads and since all state schools have been offered the right to Academy status, why wouldn't they want to? We know money drives everything and everyone now, right?

If you want excellence, and education is certainly an area which is absolutely vital to the future of this country, it's important to attract the best people into the profession. If those who've already proved themselves can command higher salaries by virtue of their better abilities whether it be teaching or administrating, and as long as they're good value for money and can justify their salary, I see no fundamental problem here.

Originally Posted by Midas

If you want excellence, and education is certainly an area which is absolutely vital to the future of this country, it's important to attract the best people into the profession. If those who've already proved themselves can command higher salaries by virtue of their better abilities whether it be teaching or administrating, and as long as they're good value for money and can justify their salary, I see no fundamental problem here.

People who want only to make money are not going to be good teachers. Generally such people are arrogant, domineering mini-Hitlers who think they can buy their way into/out of anything.

Originally Posted by DougieG

People who want only to make money are not going to be good teachers. Generally such people are arrogant, domineering mini-Hitlers who think they can buy their way into/out of anything.

Who said anything about people who only want to make money entering teaching, I certainly didn't? If someone is worth paying a high salary to because they can produce results other people can't, they're worth every penny of it, in education as in every walk of life.

If you can't trouble yourself to read what people say or choose to give irrelevant and sarcastic replies, just don't bother replying at all.

Originally Posted by Midas

Who said anything about people who only want to make money entering teaching, I certainly didn't? If someone is worth paying a high salary to because they can produce results other people can't, they're worth every penny of it, in education as in every walk of life.

If you can't trouble yourself to read what people say or choose to give irrelevant and sarcastic replies, just don't bother replying at all.

Good teachers should be paid well, but not enormous sums. If you admit that most teachers aren't in it for money, there's no reason to pay massive amounts because you will encourage people who are only in it for money and ultimately you will still get people. I know the best teachers tend to be those who don't give a rat's arse about the money. So no point encouraging those who do. Reward good teachers with good salaries, but this isn't your world of the notion that people will only stay in work if they get huge bonuses every week and all expenses paid trips to watch the VROOM VROOM.

Originally Posted by DougieG

Good teachers should be paid well, but not enormous sums.

You don't think that a teacher is worth an enormous sum? Surely teaching as a profession should be compensated more highly than most, I can think of few other jobs which are as important.

If you admit that most teachers aren't in it for money, there's no reason to pay massive amounts because you will encourage people who are only in it for money and ultimately you will still get people.

Well sure because there are so many other perks of what is an incredibly rewarding job, but that's no reason not to pay it extremely well is it?

I know the best teachers tend to be those who don't give a rat's arse about the money. So no point encouraging those who do

Absolutely, but still no reason not to reward them financially, as highly as a Doctor or CEO etc. Initially a high salary might attract people with no desire to actually teach, but they'd soon give up the job as it makes a bad teacher miserable by it's very nature. There are I imagine plenty of people out there who would have made fantastic teachers, but were attracted to jobs in finance etc. for economic reasons why not take away that barrier?
My problem with this is more that the government is making noises about cuts in the education budget, a 325 million cut, which will no doubt be targeted at support staff, without that support the teachers stress levels are going to rise exponentially and we're going to see people leave in droves regardless of pay increase, in the end it's the children who suffer.

Originally Posted by DougieG

People who want only to make money are not going to be good teachers. Generally such people are arrogant, domineering mini-Hitlers who think they can buy their way into/out of anything.

The opposite could apply though.

If you were assured of a good wage anyway then you go through the motions but if you are money motivated and that money depends on performance, then it could be a good thing.

Teachers in private schools earn more money, have more resources and the schools have better results...so why shouldn't the public sector have the same incentives to do well?

There is a tendency in senior public sector employment to create a monopolistic upward spiral in remuneration and associated perks. This is already particularly evident in the most senior positions in county councils and in universities. In each case packages can exceed a third of a million pounds per annum, against a questionable criteria to measure performance. I agree that rare skills and ability should be proportionately rewarded, but I suspect that many remuneration packages in the public sector, as in some areas of banking, have been structured to ensure maximum rewards, not to incentify outstanding performance.

Heads of large centres of teaching , be they universities, comprehensives or academies, are so far removed from the function of teaching that any vocation to teach is wholly irrelevant.

Originally Posted by uncon

The opposite could apply though.

If you were assured of a good wage anyway then you go through the motions but if you are money motivated and that money depends on performance, then it could be a good thing.

Teachers in private schools earn more money, have more resources and the schools have better results...so why shouldn't the public sector have the same incentives to do well?

Because most public schools only do marginally better than state school with a few hundred pupils...

Originally Posted by DougieG

Because most public schools only do marginally better than state school with a few hundred pupils...

A sweeping generalisation. There are, of course, beacons of excellence within the state education system, but in general the standards and therefore results are woefully below those of the private sector.

Of course finance has something to do with this, although the massive amounts of taxpayers money that has been thrown at education by the outgoing Labour government, has provided minimal overall improvement in standards or results.

Continual interference from government at both national, regional and local level has had much to do with the lack of improvement, as has the unacceptably low standard and commitment of an unacceptably high proportion of teachers in the state system. Poor financial management and leadership from head teachers also contributes to low standards. What a wasted resource that a gifted teacher should be promoted to a management position which invariably involves little teaching, and a job specification for which they are neither trained nor experienced.

Finally many parents fail to recognise the value of education and this is reflected in their parenting,and therefore an unacceptably high proportion of school pupils become undisciplined and a disruptive and negative influence on their fellow pupils, and teachers who are often already inadequate.

Few if any of these influences apply to independent schools, hence the generally much broader education provided, and again generally the much higher standards of both measurable and actual education achieved. It is hardly marginal as evidenced by the much higher proportion of university students from the private sector, despite the social engineering entered into with such enthusiasm by Labour.

With what they have to put up with they deserve a million pounds a week. My cousin , a former teacher, almost had a nervous breakdown. The goverment is doing nothing to combat the main problems in schools.

Originally Posted by octopus

With what they have to put up with they deserve a million pounds a week. My cousin , a former teacher, almost had a nervous breakdown. The goverment is doing nothing to combat the main problems in schools.

I totally agree. My ex-partner was the head of an inner city J&I school of about 800 pupils, and the number of times I asked her "Why don't you do this ......" to resolve what were obviously significant issues right across the different aspects of teaching and school administration, only to be told "We can't because of ......" some regulation or other, was beyond belief! The entire education system from top to bottom needs a major overhaul, both teaching-wise and administratively; then perhaps we'd stop the seemingly inexorable slide this country's had down the international league tables.