Alcohol for Petrol

[SussexWithLove]

In Brazil you can buy a car which has a “flex” engine, which means you can run it on Alcohol or Petrol. The alcohol costs half the price of petrol and performs just as well. Alcohol cars are far more environmentally friendly than petrol cars.
The only disadvantage is alcohol cars are a bit more expensive than petrol cars but I’m sure if they were globally mass produced they would no longer be expensive.
Why doesn’t the whole world use this fuel to power cars? Wouldn’t this solve a lot of international problems? Are the oil companies some way preventing this from happening?
If you buy a car in Brazil these days you have a choice of which fuel to use and most Brazilians are using Alcohol and its working just fine.

And if you’re wondering, the Alcohol is made from growing sugar cane. They use a similar process to make Cachaça.

[Midas]

In Brazil you can buy a car which has a “flex” engine, which means you can run it on Alcohol or Petrol. The alcohol costs half the price of petrol and performs just as well. Alcohol cars are far more environmentally friendly than petrol cars.
The only disadvantage is alcohol cars are a bit more expensive than petrol cars but I’m sure if they were globally mass produced they would no longer be expensive.
Why doesn’t the whole world use this fuel to power cars? Wouldn’t this solve a lot of international problems? Are the oil companies some way preventing this from happening?
If you buy a car in Brazil these days you have a choice of which fuel to use and most Brazilians are using Alcohol and its working just fine.

And if you’re wondering, the Alcohol is made from growing sugar cane. They use a similar process to make Cachaça.

Brazil, as well as many other countries including the USA, have been using ethanol in cars for many years. This is hardly breaking news!

One of the biggest problems is that the production of bio-ethanol is fairly energy-intensive so in some respects it's only passing the problem back down the line - in the same way that electric vehicles do. It's also taking hundreds of thousands of hectares of land away from food production, driving up the price of some crops because of shortages; hardly environmentally friendly. I can't be certain of this, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that some of the byproducts of burning ethanol in internal combustion engines are now thought to be more damaging to health than those emissions from petrol.

Scientists are looking at other plants which can easily be turned into alcohol but which will grow in conditions where arable farming isn't possible, such as semi-arid scrub land, but there's a long way to go yet.

[Opinionated]

Am I the only one who is disapointed that the future doesn't look like it did in Back to the future II? Why don't we have flying cars that run on banana skins and the dregs from a lager can? And what about hover boards? About time technology caught up I think.

[Midas]

Why don't we have flying cars that run on banana skins and the dregs from a lager can?

I think it's something to do with the ethylene gas that bananas give off. It has a slightly narcotic effect on people which can make flying the cars a bit problematic, especially when combined with alcohol fumes from the lager dregs Whether experiments to take some of the slipperiness out of the skins to ease landing problems have failed is true or not I really don't know!

But on a more serious note, I'm sure that part of 'the problem' is that science and technology journalists in particular were way over-optimistic two or three decades ago, and what were seen as relatively easy technologies when in their infancy have turned out to be anything but.

[Opinionated]

But on a more serious note, I'm sure that part of 'the problem' is that science and technology journalists in particular were way over-optimistic two or three decades ago, and what were seen as relatively easy technologies when in their infancy have turned out to be anything but.

Boo! Serious note! You sure it's not just that there wasn't as much money in it as hoped? Perhaps the auto industry wasn't so keen. Narcotic effect? Must that be a bad thing, perhaps it would be more like caffein thus making you a more alert driver? Two/three decades ago (surely some mistake) yesterday!

[Midas]

Boo! Serious note! You sure it's not just that there wasn't as much money in it as hoped? Perhaps the auto industry wasn't so keen. Narcotic effect? Must that be a bad thing, perhaps it would be more like caffein thus making you a more alert driver? Two/three decades ago (surely some mistake) yesterday!

Well, I'm sure that money did play a significant role - look at how much Moller have spent on developing their Skycar concept ($100 million so far) and how long it's taken them to even reach the one-off development prototype stage (over 30 years). It's going to have to be one hell of an expensive car to justify that sort of expenditure.

I think there's a time and a place for narcotic effects, and flying at 300kmph over crowded city streets isn't it As a matter of interest (or not of course), it's thought to have been ethylene gas which sent the Oracle of Delphi into her predictive trances. Examination of the cave underneath her temple on Mount Parnassus shows quite a concentration of the gas, naturally produced by volcanic action.

[SussexWithLove]

Brazil, as well as many other countries including the USA, have been using ethanol in cars for many years. This is hardly breaking news!.

I know its not breaking news. I didnt realise this forum was for breaking news only! USA use corn and Brazil uses Sugarcane.

One of the biggest problems is that the production of bio-ethanol is fairly energy-intensive so in some respects it's only passing the problem back down the line - in the same way that electric vehicles do. It's also taking hundreds of thousands of hectares of land away from food production, driving up the price of some crops because of shortages; hardly environmentally friendly. I can't be certain of this, but I'm sure I've read somewhere that some of the byproducts of burning ethanol in internal combustion engines are now thought to be more damaging to health than those emissions from petrol..

Brazil is a massive country and they have more than enough space to grow sugar cane. This hasn’t increased the price of food in their country.
Burning ethanol emits a far less amount of dangerous fumes than petrol or diesel and its half the price!
The benefits outweigh the negatives.

[Midas]

I know its not breaking news. I didnt realise this forum was for breaking news only! USA use corn and Brazil uses Sugarcane.

I merely pointed out that it wasn't breaking news; the wording of your post sounded like it was.

Brazil is a massive country and they have more than enough space to grow sugar cane. This hasn’t increased the price of food in their country.

Burning ethanol emits a far less amount of dangerous fumes than petrol or diesel and its half the price! The benefits outweigh the negatives.

You need to do some further research into this! Just type "problems with biofuels" into a search engine and see how many references there are to the several major problems which such fuels are causing.

Quote from The Green Car Website......

There are several concerns about biofuels - and particularly including.

• Biodiversity - A fear among environmentalists is that by adapting more land to produce crops for biofuels, more habitats will be lost for animals and wild plants. It is feared for example, that some Asian countries will sacrifice their rainforests to build more oil plantations.
• The food V fuel debate - Another concern is that if biofuels become lucrative for farmers, they may grow crops for biofuel production instead of food production. Less food production will increase prices and cause a rise in inflation. It is hoped that this can be countered by second generation biofuels which use waste biomass - though again, this will impact the habitat of many organisms. The impact is particularly high in developing countries and it is estimated that around 100million people are at risk due to the food price increases.
• Carbon emissions – Most LCA investigations show that the burning of biofuels substantially reduces greenhouse gas emissions when compared to petroleum and diesel. However, in 2007 a study was published by scientists from Britain, the USA, Germany and Austria which reported the burning of rapeseed or corn can contribute as much to nitrous oxide emissions than cooling through fossil fuel savings.
• Non-sustainable biofuel production – Many first generation biofuels are not sustainable. It is necessary to create sustainable biofuel production that does not effect food production, and that doesn’t cause environmental problems.

The production of non-sustainable biofuels has been criticised in reports by the UN, the IPCC and many other environmental and social groups. As a result many governments have switched their support towards sustainable biofuels, and alternatives such as hydrogen and compressed air. During 2008, the Roundtable of Sustainable Biofuels is developing principles for sustainable biofuel production.

You should also read articles such as this, this and this (specifically about the problems biofuels are causing in Brazil) to point out just three of many.

[SussexWithLove]

I merely pointed out that it wasn't breaking news; the wording of your post sounded like it was.

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You need to do some further research into this! Just type "problems with biofuels" into a search engine and see how many references there are to the several major problems which such fuels are causing.

Quote from The Green Car Website......




There are several concerns about biofuels - and particularly including.

• Biodiversity - A fear among environmentalists is that by adapting more land to produce crops for biofuels, more habitats will be lost for animals and wild plants. It is feared for example, that some Asian countries will sacrifice their rainforests to build more oil plantations.
• The food V fuel debate - Another concern is that if biofuels become lucrative for farmers, they may grow crops for biofuel production instead of food production. Less food production will increase prices and cause a rise in inflation. It is hoped that this can be countered by second generation biofuels which use waste biomass - though again, this will impact the habitat of many organisms. The impact is particularly high in developing countries and it is estimated that around 100million people are at risk due to the food price increases.
• Carbon emissions – Most LCA investigations show that the burning of biofuels substantially reduces greenhouse gas emissions when compared to petroleum and diesel. However, in 2007 a study was published by scientists from Britain, the USA, Germany and Austria which reported the burning of rapeseed or corn can contribute as much to nitrous oxide emissions than cooling through fossil fuel savings.
• Non-sustainable biofuel production – Many first generation biofuels are not sustainable. It is necessary to create sustainable biofuel production that does not effect food production, and that doesn’t cause environmental problems.

The production of non-sustainable biofuels has been criticised in reports by the UN, the IPCC and many other environmental and social groups. As a result many governments have switched their support towards sustainable biofuels, and alternatives such as hydrogen and compressed air. During 2008, the Roundtable of Sustainable Biofuels is developing principles for sustainable biofuel production.

You should also read articles such as this, this and this (specifically about the problems biofuels are causing in Brazil) to point out just three of many.

Thanks for the information. I was merely asking advice as I have many questions of my own, that is all!

[LA]

We cannot satisfy our energy consumption with bio-fuel.
It removes crop destined for food to energy. Scenes a third of the world is in poverty and cannot get access to the food they need, I doubt this being a viable option.

I like Ford's Age Old idea of the Ford Nucleon. lol a Nuclear Powered Car...

What a good anti speeding advert. If you speed and crash, you destroy the country. Can you live with that?

[SussexWithLove]

We cannot satisfy our energy consumption with bio-fuel.
It removes crop destined for food to energy. Scenes a third of the world is in poverty and cannot get access to the food they need, I doubt this being a viable option.

I like Ford's Age Old idea of the Ford Nucleon. lol a Nuclear Powered Car...

What a good anti speeding advert. If you speed and crash, you destroy the country. Can you live with that?

Yes a nuclear car is probably not a good idea nor is solar powered cars. You could probably only use a solar powered car on about 5 days of the year in the UK, if you’re lucky.

[LA]

Though the engine is much to be desired, I would not mind driving it.
I think it looks pretty awesome. Has that stylish old style to it

[SussexWithLove]

Though the engine is much to be desired, I would not mind driving it.
I think it looks pretty awesome. Has that stylish old style to it

Its a cross between the original Batmobile and something from Thunderbirds

[LA]

Its a cross between the original Batmobile and something from Thunderbirds

The Bat Mobile was based on a Ford Concept Car.
Where you got the Thunderbirds look a like from I do not know.

[SussexWithLove]

The Bat Mobile was based on a Ford Concept Car.
Where you got the Thunderbirds look a like from I do not know.

The 60's futruistic look. Maybe thunderbirds is a bad example. I didnt mean one of the actual 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever it was space station, vehicles and rocket ships.

YouTube - FAB 1 Thunderbirds Car **** Heritage Motor Centre!!

[Midas]

Yes a nuclear car is probably not a good idea nor is solar powered cars. You could probably only use a solar powered car on about 5 days of the year in the UK, if you’re lucky.

What you want is one of these...

[Trouble43]

You could probably only use a solar powered car on about 5 days of the year in the UK, if you’re lucky.

There is a line in one of my favourite movies that I think sums up this country's weather perfectly:

"when it isn't raining, it's snowing. When it isn't snowing, there's fog; and that's just the summer." (oh and, yes, they were talking about Britain - albeit ancient Briton; but it just goes to show our weather has remained constant.)

[Trouble43]

So...here's one of the weirder 'concept cars' around. Its the Helios - it only has room for the driver and no boot space (forget doing the shopping in it then); it also has a weird fan set up to catch the sun wherever possible (forget using it in the UK as well then). Ugly car, perfectly useless, people will point at you and laugh as you pass them, but hey at least you're saving the planet!

Helios: The Eco-Car that Unfolds its Wings to Capture the Sun | Trends Updates

Personally, just give me my Toyota Surf Diesel any day - it carries a week's worth of shopping, a small zoo of domestic pets and lots of sugar hyped children with ease (it also scrubs up well if anything spills, poops or vomits in it). Its also very big and has 4 wheel drive for the acres of mud/snow, etc I end up driving up through in the summer/winter.

I doubt this 'Helios' thing would get to the end of my road in the winter - even with the sun strapped to the blades. And, short of making said animals and children run along behind, there'd be no way to do the usual school/pet runs I do either.

[SussexWithLove]

There is a line in one of my favourite movies that I think sums up this country's weather perfectly:

"when it isn't raining, it's snowing. When it isn't snowing, there's fog; and that's just the summer." (oh and, yes, they were talking about Britain - albeit ancient Briton; but it just goes to show our weather has remained constant.)

we are world famous for having a crap climate.

[Trouble43]

we are world famous for having a crap climate.

And yet, surprisingly, we're not the ones called 'frogs'. I mean you'd think we would be, what with our need for inbuilt flippers.

[SussexWithLove]

What you want is one of these...

I already have one. I look like jaws splitting through the traffic down the M25.

[LA]

I love the British climate. Don't diss it.

What happened to loving Britain sussexwithlove?

[SussexWithLove]

I love the British climate. Don't diss it.

What happened to loving Britain sussexwithlove?

I think my sister has a crap haircut but I still love her.

I lived abroad in hot climates. There's nothing better than coming home and seeing those grey clouds, you actually miss them after a while.

[Trouble43]

I already have one. I look like jaws splitting through the traffic down the M25.

ROFL! Very good!