One in nine people living in Britain are foreign

[Albion 69]

"The number of foreigners in the UK grew by 290,000 in the year to June 2008, according to statistics published today.

The figures mean that one in nine people now resident in Britain was born abroad. Official figures show 6.5 million people born overseas were resident in the UK in the year to June 2008, an increase of 290,000 on the year to June 2007.
The Annual Population Survey showed 4.1 million foreign nationals resident in the UK in the year to June 2008, compared with 3.8 million in the year to June 2007.
There were fall in the number of short-term migrants coming to study for less than 12 months, down 13 per cent to 374,000 for the year to June 2007.
Other figures showed in that in the 12 months to September 2008, 720,000 national insurance numbers were allocated to adult foreign nationals, seven per cent down on the previous year.
Other figures released by the Home Office showed an increase in applications from asylum seekers from 23,430 to 25,670 in 2008."

One in nine people living in Britain is foreign, figures show - Telegraph

Fed up writing the same old thing ....

+ = = =

[Marxist Nutter]

"The number of foreigners in the UK grew by 290,000 in the year to June 2008, according to statistics published today.

The figures mean that one in nine people now resident in Britain was born abroad. Official figures show 6.5 million people born overseas were resident in the UK in the year to June 2008, an increase of 290,000 on the year to June 2007.
The Annual Population Survey showed 4.1 million foreign nationals resident in the UK in the year to June 2008, compared with 3.8 million in the year to June 2007.
There were fall in the number of short-term migrants coming to study for less than 12 months, down 13 per cent to 374,000 for the year to June 2007.
Other figures showed in that in the 12 months to September 2008, 720,000 national insurance numbers were allocated to adult foreign nationals, seven per cent down on the previous year.
Other figures released by the Home Office showed an increase in applications from asylum seekers from 23,430 to 25,670 in 2008."

One in nine people living in Britain is foreign, figures show - Telegraph

Fed up writing the same old thing ....

+ = = =

I hope if decide to live in another country (a real possibility) the nation I choose to live in will not be so unkind to me and will not see me as the source of all their problems.

[Midas]

I hope if decide to live in another country (a real possibility) the nation I choose to live in will not be so unkind to me and will not see me as the source of all their problems.

Somewhat tongue in cheek, but with more than an element of truth, that cuts out all the former British Commonwealth and Islamic countries for a start! If we now exclude the rest of the EU, those countries which have opposed the UK in the past and all those remaining countries where it's either too hot, too cold or plain too uncivilised to live in out of choice, what's left?

Answers on a postcard please, to...

[Albion 69]

I hope if decide to live in another country (a real possibility) the nation I choose to live in will not be so unkind to me and will not see me as the source of all their problems.

Despite your many charms i would think most countries would have serious issues when foreigners make up such a significant percentage of the population , especially when times are hard and jobs are scarce.

[Marxist Nutter]

Despite your many charms i would think most countries would have serious issues when foreigners make up such a significant percentage of the population , especially when times are hard and jobs are scarce.

Which is a very good reason for people to look for jobs overseas.

I really don't see the problem. people come here to work as there are fewer jobs in their countries what is stopping us from doing the same? Are we too lazy or just to stuck in our ways to move?

In fact I am looking for jobs all over the world and not just the UK, just makes sense really!

[Albion 69]

Which is a very good reason for people to look for jobs overseas.

I really don't see the problem. people come here to work as there are fewer jobs in their countries what is stopping us from doing the same? Are we too lazy or just to stuck in our ways to move?

In fact I am looking for jobs all over the world and not just the UK, just makes sense really!

Norman Tebbit would be proud of you ... taking get on your bike to the next level

In reality what are the chances of the average person finding a job in a foreign country where unemployment is also increasing ? I would say slim to non existent.

[Marxist Nutter]

Norman Tebbit would be proud of you ... taking get on your bike to the next level

In reality what are the chances of the average person finding a job in a foreign country where unemployment is also increasing ? I would say slim to non existent.

Can't hurt to look tho. Also even if wages for manual jobs are lower (which they may not be in the EU with current exchange rate) the living cost may be lower too. If foreigners are capable of 'stealing British jobs' then surely we are capable of stealing their jobs or are they just more motivated than we are?

Yes it is a global problem which is why solutions such as British jobs for British workers are unlikely to make any difference.

[Albion 69]

Can't hurt to look tho. Also even if wages for manual jobs are lower (which they may not be in the EU with current exchange rate) the living cost may be lower too. If foreigners are capable of 'stealing British jobs' then surely we are capable of stealing their jobs or are they just more motivated than we are?

Yes it is a global problem which is why solutions such as British jobs for British workers are unlikely to make any difference.

You are well travelled and have contacts abroad , i doubt the same could be said for most people. It would be daunting for the average person to up sticks (what about their family ?) and move to work in a foreign country assuming they find a job. It would be simpler to restrict foreign workers coming here (where possible) freeing up more jobs for the Brits.

I don't think Foreigners are stealing jobs just exploiting or being exploited by the current system.

[Marxist Nutter]

You are well travelled and have contacts abroad , i doubt the same could be said for most people. It would be daunting for the average person to up sticks (what about their family ?) and move to work in a foreign country assuming they find a job. It would be simpler to restrict foreign workers coming here (where possible) freeing up more jobs for the Brits.

I don't think Foreigners are stealing jobs just exploiting or being exploited by the current system.

I agree with your last point

However is not just as daunting for people coming to this country? They too have to up sticks and maybe leave their roots and family. I don't see that it is any harder for us than it is for them. However I never said it was easy. Obviously it depends on many many factors, a key one is of course your skill base. Some skills are very sought after abroad (plumbers in Australia , for example) where as some are not (I don't think anyone who has worked in a British bank will find much use for their 'skills' anywhere else right now )

[Albion 69]

I agree with your last point

However is not just as daunting for people coming to this country? They too have to up sticks and maybe leave their roots and family. I don't see that it is any harder for us than it is for them. However I never said it was easy. Obviously it depends on many many factors, a key one is of course your skill base. Some skills are very sought after abroad (plumbers in Australia , for example) where as some are not (I don't think anyone who has worked in a British bank will find much use for their 'skills' anywhere else right now )

The incentives for most foreigners ( mainly Eastern European ) mean the benefits outweigh the hardship of moving here. They earn far more money than they would at home , the average Brit with mortgage bills would be unlikely to earn any more abroad than they would here. Obviously selling their house to move abroad is also not an option , the housing market has collapsed

Your point about skills is well made , how many speak a foreign language? ... is there a big demand for retail / banking /service industry staff in other countries ?

[Marxist Nutter]

Your point about skills is well made , how many speak a foreign language? ... is there a big demand for retail / banking /service industry staff in other countries ?

There are incentives to move abroad but it depends on your skill base. We are crap at languages (me included) but this is a time when all of us need to think about expanding our skills and learning a language is not a bad start. Also having English as a first language can be a huge advantage.

I feel so sorry for people in this country right now - Brits and foreigners alike. There are very little options available. Job Centre staff are hopeless (in my experience) New Deal is a farce, so a bit of thinking outside the box may be needed if people are to survive, in these times. I personally think the government should help unemployed people (re)train and this may include learning another language. I would think free college courses for anyone unemployed for more than 2 months would be the very least Gordon could do.

[Albion 69]

There are incentives to move abroad but it depends on your skill base. We are crap at languages (me included) but this is a time when all of us need to think about expanding our skills and learning a language is not a bad start. Also having English as a first language can be a huge advantage.

I feel so sorry for people in this country right now - Brits and foreigners alike. There are very little options available. Job Centre staff are hopeless (in my experience) New Deal is a farce, so a bit of thinking outside the box may be needed if people are to survive, in these times. I personally think the government should help unemployed people (re)train and this may include learning another language. I would think free college courses for anyone unemployed for more than 2 months would be the very least Gordon could do.

Agree re training and increasing our skills base will be important steps in getting people back to work . Easier said than done though , as governments of all colours seem to launch endless schemes that fail to deliver. Free College course might help and being offered work in compulsory community projects helping to keep people active preventing them slipping into despondency/depression could prove useful as this will be a long and painful recession.

[kynaston]

'One in nine people living in Britain are foreign'

No - what the article says is that about a tenth of people currently living in the UK were born abroad, which is quite a different matter, even if the figures are correct. The deliberate use of standard drivel about asylum seekers and so on is meant to hide the obvious point that lots and lots of British people (service families, failed emigrants etcetera) are born abroad, that there are still quite a large number of US occupation troops here, that there are masses of students heavily encouraged to come by the government and the universities, who want their money, that many of the 'Irish' people here - and there are a great many - have lived here most of their lives, that a lot of people who came to work here will find the pay better elsewhere and soon depart. It is the usual old bogey-man stuff, to take our attention from the way the bankers have sabotaged the Daily Telegraph's beloved System and shown just what Thatcherism was worth.

[Midas]

I didn't see all of it but I caught the tail end of a news report on TV yesterday that said that more immigrants were now leaving, or thinking of leaving, the UK than were arriving here. In particular this seems to be people from Eastern Europe, mainly Poles and Romanians, but whether it was an accurate report or simply a wishful thinking piece tacked on to something else I don't know.

[Albion 69]

I didn't see all of it but I caught the tail end of a news report on TV yesterday that said that more immigrants were now leaving, or thinking of leaving, the UK than were arriving here. In particular this seems to be people from Eastern Europe, mainly Poles and Romanians, but whether it was an accurate report or simply a wishful thinking piece tacked on to something else I don't know.

I am guessing it was a BBC report , not the first time they would have reported immigration statistics to favour a particular agenda. The numbers of eastern Europeans may be dropping for obvious reasons but they are still coming here (29,000) and the over all stats make grim reading...

290,000 up on the previous year

1.2 million since 2004

India (619,000 people), Poland (461,000), Ireland (416,000) and Pakistan (415,000).

One in nine British residents was born overseas - Telegraph

[Marxist Nutter]

I am guessing it was a BBC report , not the first time they would have reported immigration statistics to favour a particular agenda. The numbers of eastern Europeans may be dropping for obvious reasons but they are still coming here (29,000) and the over all stats make grim reading...

290,000 up on the previous year

1.2 million since 2004

India (619,000 people), Poland (461,000), Ireland (416,000) and Pakistan (415,000).

One in nine British residents was born overseas - Telegraph

Really so grim???

I mean if we are still attracting people from all over the world and we are in the middle of an economic crisis we must be doing something right, surely?

[Albion 69]

Really so grim???

I mean if we are still attracting people from all over the world and we are in the middle of an economic crisis we must be doing something right, surely?

Can you please explain how increasing immigration during a recession when unemployment is rising, welfare reliance is rising can be described as doing something right

[Marxist Nutter]

Can you please explain how increasing immigration during a recession when unemployment is rising, welfare reliance is rising can be described as doing something right

If our country is still an attractive place for people from outside to want to live in, then I think we must be doing something right, otherwise nobody would want to live here. Lets face it the weather is awful, our public transportation is expensive and unreliable, we have high taxes, one must ask, why would anyone want to live here? The answer must be that they come from worse countries, in which case we are still doing better than most, no?

[Albion 69]

If our country is still an attractive place for people from outside to want to live in, then I think we must be doing something right, otherwise nobody would want to live here. Lets face it the weather is awful, our public transportation is expensive and unreliable, we have high taxes, one must ask, why would anyone want to live here? The answer must be that they come from worse countries, in which case we are still doing better than most, no?

See previous reply , they get paid more so put up with crap living and working conditions. Our record on deporting Illegal immigrants is poor so they know they can in many cases stay even if their work permit expires. Stay here long enough they qualify for benefits .... we are not doing something right , we are doing most things wrong which is why they and some unscrupulous employers take full advantage of our stupidity.

[Marxist Nutter]

See previous reply , they get paid more so put up with crap living and working conditions. Our record on deporting Illegal immigrants is poor so they know they can in many cases stay even if their work permit expires. Stay here long enough they qualify for benefits .... we are not doing something right , we are doing most things wrong which is why they and some unscrupulous employers take full advantage of our stupidity.

Well living on benefits is not very nice so again I would say if living here on £40 odd a week is better than living in other countries then we still must have something to be proud of. Would you like us to be more like other nations that don't have benefits and people think 'yuk the UK what a horrible place to live'

[Albion 69]

Well living on benefits is not very nice so again I would say if living here on £40 odd a week is better than living in other countries then we still must have something to be proud of. Would you like us to be more like other nations that don't have benefits and people think 'yuk the UK what a horrible place to live'

I would like us to train the people that are already living here to do the jobs and pay them a decent wage , not import cheap Labour or drain poor countries of there best and brightest citizens.

[Marxist Nutter]

I would like us to train the people that are already living here to do the jobs and pay them a decent wage , not import cheap Labour or drain poor countries of there best and brightest citizens.

But this is a problem of global capitalism NOT a national policy problem. The system relies on cheap foreign labour and is unlikely to survive without it it lies at the foundation of liberal global economics . The problem both NuLab and you lot have is you cannot reject the notion of importing cheap labour without rejecting the notion of liberal economics on a global scale, neither party has yet dared to face this relaity.

[Albion 69]

But this is a problem of global capitalism NOT a national policy problem. The system relies on cheap foreign labour and is unlikely to survive without it it lies at the foundation of liberal global economics . The problem both NuLab and you lot have is you cannot reject the notion of importing cheap labour without rejecting the notion of liberal economics on a global scale, neither party has yet dared to face this relaity.

Germany , France , Spain , Italy most other EU countries legally placed restrictions on workers/immigration from the eastern European accession countries , our Government (and the Irish ) in it's infinite wisdom decided not to it was a National Policy decision .

[Marxist Nutter]

Germany , France , Spain , Italy most other EU countries legally placed restrictions on workers/immigration from the eastern European accession countries , our Government (and the Irish ) in it's infinite wisdom decided not to it was a National Policy decision .

OK so you want a Berlusconi type government that puts the army on the streets to arrest immigrants - why don't you like the BNP again??

Well to prevent the free mobility of Labour does conflict with capitalism so maybe your want national socialism of some sort? You lost your faith in capitalism and we are only a few months into the crisis, I thought it would take much longer,

[Albion 69]

OK so you want a Berlusconi type government that puts the army on the streets to arrest immigrants - why don't you like the BNP again??

Well to prevent the free mobility of Labour does conflict with capitalism so maybe your want national socialism of some sort? You lost your faith in capitalism and we are only a few months into the crisis, I thought it would take much longer,

Silly response, your arguments are often fact free but mis representing my argument is a new low

Capitalism was alive and kicking before the EU open borders were created so i cannot see the relevance of your point.

[LA]

Phil Woolas, the Border and Immigration minister, said: "The number of Eastern Europeans coming here to work is dramatically falling and research suggests that many of those that came have now gone home.

No.
According to some guy whose name I cannot remember and will find out again for you soon who runs a charity for eastern europeans in this country and helps them find work, most Europeans have returned to there home country and then have realised how shit there home country is and returned back.

[KeiranMac]

I'm surprised anyone wants to be here anymore to be honest. The NEF did an interesting report recently, which showed that the only other advanced EU nation we're comparably pissed off to is France. The other nations we're as pissed off as are post-totalitarian Soviet satellites.

Follow this odd sounding link....

Search Results

Says a heap of things if you ask me.

[LA]

I'm surprised anyone wants to be here anymore to be honest. The NEF did an interesting report recently, which showed that the only other advanced EU nation we're comparably pissed off to is France. The other nations we're as pissed off as are post-totalitarian Soviet satellites.

Follow this odd sounding link....

Search Results

Says a heap of things if you ask me.

What exactly do you mean when you say comparably pissed off to?

[KeiranMac]

What exactly do you mean when you say comparably pissed off to?

I guess I could have said 'as comparably pissed off as'... if that helps.

[LA]

I guess I could have said 'as comparably pissed off as'... if that helps.

It does not help. I think the term pissed off throws me off the sentence.
Could you rephrase it without using pissed off

[KeiranMac]

It does not help. I think the term pissed off throws me off the sentence.
Could you rephrase it without using pissed off

If it suits you, I could have said;

I'm surprised anyone wants to be here anymore to be honest. The NEF did an interesting report recently, which showed that the only other advanced EU nation that is as miserable as ours is France. The other states with comparable levels of misery are post-totalitarian Soviet satellites.

Does that help?

[LA]

If it suits you, I could have said;

I'm surprised anyone wants to be here anymore to be honest. The NEF did an interesting report recently, which showed that the only other advanced EU nation that is as miserable as ours is France. The other states with comparable levels of misery are post-totalitarian Soviet satellites.

Does that help?

Thank you, the rephrasing has helped

[Albion 69]

I'm surprised anyone wants to be here anymore to be honest. The NEF did an interesting report recently, which showed that the only other advanced EU nation that is as miserable as ours is France. The other states with comparable levels of misery are post-totalitarian Soviet satellites.

Which is probably why so many Brits have emigrated .... 196,000 out, 574,000 in: Record numbers leaving Britain for new life abroad - as immigration to UK soars | Mail Online .

[Midas]

Which is probably why so many Brits have emigrated .... 196,000 out, 574,000 in: Record numbers leaving Britain for new life abroad - as immigration to UK soars | Mail Online .

Maybe going off tack slightly, but where would people here choose to go and live if they did emigrate from the UK - assuming no or limited change in their financial circumstances, which for most would mean having to find a suitable job?

[Opinionated]

Maybe going off tack slightly, but where would people here choose to go and live if they did emigrate from the UK - assuming no or limited change in their financial circumstances, which for most would mean having to find a suitable job?

Perhaps Sweden, or be clichéd and say Australia for the sun, or Canada. I can't imagine emigrating actually I like living here, plus when you've got responsibilities (elderly parents etc.) it's not an option, but in dream world... why not the moon?

[Marxist Nutter]

Silly response, your arguments are often fact free but mis representing my argument is a new low

Capitalism was alive and kicking before the EU open borders were created so i cannot see the relevance of your point.

It's not capitalism, its GLOBAL capitalism that relies on fairly free mobility of labour and capital. Without being to import cheap labour we (the UK business sector) will easily become uncompetitive in a world market. Jeez I never thought I'd have to spell this one out to you! The options are either become dangerously uncomeptitive and have a failing economy being out performed by everyone else and slowly dirft into becoming a poorer and poorer nation, try and shut borders to some extent and have a carfeully controlled national economy (this is what i meant by national socialism - not Nazism although that is always a danger when you start down this road) and this seems to be where you wanna go. The only other option is to try to work out alternatives to global capitialism. I don;t think any other options are really available. I do not think in the globalised world you can have national free markets but deny entry to cheap labour - this would klead to economic disaster.

Sorry if you think I was being silly; I thought you would know this argument by now and woul;d not need it spelling out.

[Midas]

Perhaps Sweden, or be clichéd and say Australia for the sun, or Canada. I can't imagine emigrating actually I like living here, plus when you've got responsibilities (elderly parents etc.) it's not an option, but in dream world... why not the moon?

Sweden? An interesting choice; any particular reason for that? Australia does have to be high on my list, mainly because I've already got citizenship there so no immigration hassle, but in some ways the government have made it as much a 'nanny culture' as it is here, which diminishes the appeal. The moon - hmm, a bit airless for me, I quite like to breathe, and I don't believe there's a great deal to do once you're there

I have already lived in Australia, Spain and the Isle of Man (and in the Caribbean for several months at a stretch), and whilst I've now got no particular ties with Britain - no parents, no siblings, no wife/current partner and kids all well and truly away from home - I'll probably stop on for a few years yet. Unless labour get back in again, then that'll certainly be me off!

[Marxist Nutter]

Sweden? An interesting choice; any particular reason for that? Australia does have to be high on my list, mainly because I've already got citizenship there so no immigration hassle, but in some ways the government have made it as much a 'nanny culture' as it is here, which diminishes the appeal. The moon - hmm, a bit airless for me, I quite like to breathe, and I don't believe there's a great deal to do once you're there

I have already lived in Australia, Spain and the Isle of Man (and in the Caribbean for several months at a stretch), and whilst I've now got no particular ties with Britain - no parents, no siblings, no wife/current partner and kids all well and truly away from home - I'll probably stop on for a few years yet. Unless labour get back in again, then that'll certainly be me off!

If you got money then SE Asia is a good option. Lovely climate, and very very very cheap (but getting more expensive especially more well know place such as Thailand). I have friends who live in the Philippines which is gorgeous and cheap, however the regime does leave much to be desired ( a carbon copy of the USA imposed on a country where the poor can often not speak English) but as a rich westerner living out in the sticks you are unlikely to have too many political problems. However mudslides and Tropical storms (these are very scary if you are right on the coast, closest I've ever come to actually soiling myself!!) also not much in the way of mod cons but personally i find that bit rather refreshing! I found myself wondering why on earth I ever felt I needed a washing machine!

[Midas]

If you got money then SE Asia is a good option. Lovely climate, and very very very cheap (but getting more expensive especially more well know place such as Thailand). I have friends who live in the Philippines which is gorgeous and cheap, however the regime does leave much to be desired ( a carbon copy of the USA imposed on a country where the poor can often not speak English) but as a rich westerner living out in the sticks you are unlikely to have too many political problems. However mudslides and Tropical storms (these are very scary if you are right on the coast, closest I've ever come to actually soiling myself!!) also not much in the way of mod cons but personally i find that bit rather refreshing! I found myself wondering why on earth I ever felt I needed a washing machine!

I have a couple of friends who live in the Philippines, and both of them love it there. But I'm afraid I've got far to used to my washing machine, and a lot of other life's little luxuries, to go and stick myself out in the wilderness, however beautiful it might be!

And talking of life's little luxuries, this is probably my last post for a few days - off to the fleshpots of Monaco this afternoon for a long weekend of debauchery and whatever else comes to mind

[KeiranMac]

If you got money then SE Asia is a good option. Lovely climate, and very very very cheap (but getting more expensive especially more well know place such as Thailand). I have friends who live in the Philippines which is gorgeous and cheap, however the regime does leave much to be desired ( a carbon copy of the USA imposed on a country where the poor can often not speak English) but as a rich westerner living out in the sticks you are unlikely to have too many political problems. However mudslides and Tropical storms (these are very scary if you are right on the coast, closest I've ever come to actually soiling myself!!) also not much in the way of mod cons but personally i find that bit rather refreshing! I found myself wondering why on earth I ever felt I needed a washing machine!

Instead of thinking about climates, money, and suchlike... why don't people think of where people are actually proven to have a better quality of life? - i.e. stronger community ties, low (and not rising) crime, lower rates of mental illness, happier people? because after all, isn't being happier what we want? and shouldn't we, in the utilitarian sense, look to take actions to maximise that happiness? - there's scientific proof about where these happier places are, if only we chose to listen.

There's plenty of studies done which show which are the happiest cultures on earth, and the Northern Europeans in and around Scandinavia seem to come high up every time.

Their cultures are relatively healthy compared to the sick and increasingly depraved ones like ours and those in the most coarsely greedy capitalist ones like Australia (Overview of Mental Illness in Australia) and America (Mental Illness in America: Scientific American).

The idea that places like Australia and sunnier climbes are idylic oases of tranquility and wonder is bizarre in the extreme. There's probably some sunny places that are better, or even much better, to live in than Britain and some of the other much nicer areas of Europe, but the ones that effectively 'sell' us the idea they're great to live in are often nothing of the sort.

Of course, if you were of a relatively religious disposition, you might want to go somewhere that still has a strongly religious culture, as religious following is shown to improve mental wellbeing (not that I ascribe to it, I think there's other ways of keeping sane if you choose to take them).

[Albion 69]

It's not capitalism, its GLOBAL capitalism that relies on fairly free mobility of labour and capital. Without being to import cheap labour we (the UK business sector) will easily become uncompetitive in a world market. Jeez I never thought I'd have to spell this one out to you! The options are either become dangerously uncomeptitive and have a failing economy being out performed by everyone else and slowly dirft into becoming a poorer and poorer nation, try and shut borders to some extent and have a carfeully controlled national economy (this is what i meant by national socialism - not Nazism although that is always a danger when you start down this road) and this seems to be where you wanna go. The only other option is to try to work out alternatives to global capitialism. I don;t think any other options are really available. I do not think in the globalised world you can have national free markets but deny entry to cheap labour - this would klead to economic disaster.

Sorry if you think I was being silly; I thought you would know this argument by now and woul;d not need it spelling out.

Agree about capital but Global Capitalism does not rely on the free movement of Labour .It relies on access (free markets) with as few tariffs as possible. UK companies source their products in India/China to lower costs , we do not need to import cheap Labour here. I will repeat (yet again) i favour a balanced immigration policy http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/balancedmigration.pdf which allows for small scale immigration but with no net increase this i am sure you would agree cannot be characterised as putting the army on the streets/BNP policy .

[Marxist Nutter]

Agree about capital but Global Capitalism does not rely on the free movement of Labour .It relies on access (free markets) with as few tariffs as possible. UK companies source their products in India/China to lower costs , we do not need to import cheap Labour here. I will repeat (yet again) i favour a balanced immigration policy http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/balancedmigration.pdf which allows for small scale immigration but with no net increase this i am sure you would agree cannot be characterised as putting the army on the streets/BNP policy .

You mentioned Italy ( approvingly) and that's what they do (army on the streets). Yeah a Berlusconi gvt is just what we need . Again if we have more expensive labour we cannot compete (will not repeat this again). Free mobility of labour IS a condition of us being able to survive in a world of global capitalsim (if not of global capitialism itself) unless we change the system. Again a very simpl and uncontroversial point, I would have thought you would be able to grasp!

[Albion 69]

You mentioned Italy ( approvingly) and that's what they do (army on the streets). Yeah a Berlusconi gvt is just what we need . Again if we have more expensive labour we cannot compete (will not repeat this again). Free mobility of labour IS a condition of us being able to survive in a world of global capitalsim (if not of global capitialism itself) unless we change the system. Again a very simpl and uncontroversial point, I would have thought you would be able to grasp!

I mentioned Germany , France , Italy and Spain not allowing immigration /workers from the Eastern European accession countries (very sensible). Feel free to quote the bit where i praised the Italian government for their immigration policy in other areas
I would appreciate being patronised by someone who was half as knowledgeable as you appear to think you are , but your devotion to extremist ideologies blinds you to your shortcomings (stick to philosophy) .... sheesh i don't know who is worse the far left or the far right (actually i do the left )

Have the countries that barred the hundreds of thousands of eastern European immigrants/workers that came here failed to compete (no), failed to survive (no) ? A decision was made by the government to sidestep the thorny issue of welfare dependency in this country , they thought importing labour was a better/easy option . Leave a million plus unemployed and millions more on Incapacity benefit and ship in foreigners to do the work . We have the people to fill the jobs but lack the backbone to enforce legislation to make them work. You parrot the argument of the worst employers , we need slave labour to compete ... how ironic.

[Marxist Nutter]

I mentioned Germany , France , Italy and Spain not allowing immigration /workers from the Eastern European accession countries (very sensible). Feel free to quote the bit where i praised the Italian government for their immigration policy in other areas
I would appreciate being patronised by someone who was half as knowledgeable as you appear to think you are , but your devotion to extremist ideologies blinds you to your shortcomings (stick to philosophy) .... sheesh i don't know who is worse the far left or the far right (actually i do the left )

Nice meaningless diatribe. When losing the argument start attacking hey? IO am sorry to patronize but you are so ill informed on this and so many other topics YOU GET ALL YOUR FACTS WRONG. Not to mention France never shit it boarders to E. Europeans so where do you get this crap from anyway?? Sarkozy has always been pro E.European immigration or do you live in a parallel universe?
France to open early to eastern EU workers - International Herald Tribune

(I have leanred to check Albion's facts now coz he just makes them up half the time)

Maybe you mean the fact the are clamping down on illegal immigartion, not the same thing is it Albion, naughty naughty misrepresneting facts and getiing all bothered coz you have lost an argument. Not sure about spain, I have to admit. As you know I have no problem admitting when I am wrong so feel free to show me all about 1. How France and Spain have closed their boaders to E. Europeans and 2. How France Spain and Italy are economically comeptitive. If your evidence convinces I will admit I'm wrong as I have not done much research on this, although am fairly sure that France and Italy (dont know about spain) have long had problems around economic competition for a variety of reasons (in the case if Italy these are largely hsitorical). I also think that Italy is one of the least stable countries in W.Europe both economically and politcaly so not the best example for your case, but again I will be happy to be proven wrong here.

Have the countries that barred the hundreds of thousands of eastern European immigrants/workers that came here failed to compete (no),

COZ THEY ARE IN YOUR MIND for a start. When did france bar eastern Europeans unless I am very behind the times here last I heard they relaxed restrictions on them coming in about 2005/6 I think it was but will look it up at some point, uless you want to.

And to be honest the french Spanish and Italins are failing to compete and require EU subsidy as u yourself often point out. Again you argue whatever case suits don't you. This is patehetic I am losing all repsetc for you now Albion.

A decision was made by the government to sidestep the thorny issue of welfare dependency in this country , they thought importing labour was a better/easy option . Leave a million plus unemployed and millions more on Incapacity benefit and ship in foreigners to do the work . We have the people to fill the jobs but lack the backbone to enforce legislation to make them work. You parrot the argument of the worst employers , we need slave labour to compete ... how ironic.

This is a story that you tell yourself then fine, who am I to argue your vivid imagination. Slave labour??? This is just capiatlsim and I never said I like it. I also suggest you read an economics text book beofre making yourslef look even more stupid. If that is even possible at this satge

[LA]

I would like to point out France opened their boarders early.
Britain opened them straight away.

Economically and Politically, Italy is quite unstable. However, in terms of ability to accept the most immigrants, Britain is the top of the league table. Britain is also top on anothe table - The country receiving the most immigrants in Europe; even though we are the least able to cope with it.

[Marxist Nutter]

I would like to point out France opened their boarders early.
Britain opened them straight away.

Economically and Politically, Italy is quite unstable. However, in terms of ability to accept the most immigrants, Britain is the top of the league table. Britain is also top on anothe table - The country receiving the most immigrants in Europe; even though we are the least able to cope with it.

Not sure you are right here. i believe that Spain and Italy (maybe France and Germany too)have more immigrants (gross) than we do. Will check tho.

[LA]

Not sure you are right here. i believe that Spain and Italy (maybe France and Germany too)have more immigrants (gross) than we do. Will check tho.

England is the most densly populated country in Europe and receive more migrants than any other country.

[Marxist Nutter]

England is the most densly populated country in Europe and receive more migrants than any other country.

Spain had the highest level of net immigration: 702,000; Italy was second, with 494,000; Britain third, with 175,000. The Netherlands experienced net emigration, with 1,600 more people leaving than arriving.

Philippe Legrain: Spain attracts most immigrants in EU in 2007

we also have fewer immigrants as a % of the population than France and Germany and the Ukraine
List of countries by immigrant population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually I think The Vatican is the most densely populated nation in Europe so sorry to say you seem to wrong on all counts

[LA]

Philippe Legrain: Spain attracts most immigrants in EU in 2007

we also have fewer immigrants as a % of the population than France and Germany and the Ukraine
List of countries by immigrant population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are government figures... Clearly the government knows something more than wikipedia... Then again our current government are quite crap.

Also, bare in mind, I said densly populated. The density doesn't refer to % of immigrants. It refers to the % of immigrants per square mile/kilometre/other measurement of distance.

Also bare in mind the nature of the Vatican city. Due to its nature, the Vatican city is never included.

[Marxist Nutter]

They are government figures... Clearly the government knows something more than wikipedia... Then again our current government are quite crap.

Also, bare in mind, I said densly populated. The density doesn't refer to % of immigrants. It refers to the % of immigrants per square mile/kilometre/other measurement of distance.

have you got the link to the government source (also net immigration figures are not from wikki) but It would be very funny if the government got it so wrong as according to the figures I obtained Spain has nearly 4 times our net immigration so that would be a huge gaff!

Also I did not we had over taken Malta for population density! That is interesting, if true.