This is a discussion on illegal migration within the Immigration & Asylum Forum forums, part of the Government in general discussion category; think most of you will agree that illegal migration is a big problem, and our present system is not adequate ...
Senior MP
think most of you will agree that illegal migration is a big problem, and our present system is not adequate to deal with the constant influx.
how would you suggest the system is changed to help stop the huge numbers coming and settling here/ or dissapearing whilst their so-called asylum claims are heard?
Senior MP
Constant checking not standing at a train stations early in the morning check would be illegal immigrant can solve the problem rather than targetting all the big fat cat cow boy company that love the so called black market labour with no pension for the illegal than for themself.Originally Posted by hinckleylad
Cloud Nine.
My plan would be to carry out deportations as soon as an illegal immigrant is found. Under the current system, many are released on “bail” and “go missing”. The other problem is with the deportation rule. If an illegal person is known, they cannot be removed until they present ID (passport etc) to the BPA.
Senior MP
Who is the bloody solicitors for the so called ghokas or whatever they call them, can not seek a judicial review against the british immigration office having fought beside british army, i mean come on mr woolas, they were rejected publicly with a ''letter'' stating the reasons why their application for leave to remain was rejected time and time again why cant their solicitor seek judicial review by creating a ''locus standi'' in the european court of human right rather than merry go rounding as if every citizen is stupid not to know their right of res judicata, infact how would they be begging the prime minister or the entire british parliament when the law allows them to stay under the immigration law, (please dont get me wrong on my statement about the prime minister nor the parliament) the immigrations law allow them to stay with the crteria setting out the rule, and it should be used in the european court of human right with european charter of fundamental right not all these publicity, because the people will go against it especially in the credit crunch time, so the best weapons against all the irrational decission of the promisory/estoppel is the ''law'' from the highest court in europe otherwise they will continue to wait for a decission on inter vivo''.
Cloud Nine.
Senior MP
My way would be to not deal with the influx at all.
So unproductive has conservatism been in producing a general conception of how a social order is maintained that its modern votaries, in trying to construct a theoretical foundation, invariably find themselves appealing almost exclusively to authors who regarded themselves as liberal. - F.A. Hayek
Economic Left/Right: 4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
Senior MP
What did you mean by that ?
Is fingerprinting or DNA test every immigrant entering the united kingdom ?
What's the figure of asylum seeker for this year ?
Or you want to teach us what to say and where to walk to in a free world same old story ?
Cloud Nine.
Chancellor
My reaction is fundamentally the same as yours, immediate deportation, however the necessity for presenting some form of official ID is there for a very good reason. Without it there could be many cases of British citizens from first, second, or even third generation immigrants getting caught up in the net, particularly if they were of fairly low intelligence. One has to balance up whether it's 'better' to immediately deport everyone who appears to be an illegal immigrant and have to face the consequences from those who aren't, or whether it's 'better' to carry out fairly comprehensive ID checks first.
I'd come down firmly on the second option, but I would say that anyone suspected of being here illegally should be kept interred in special immigrant camps until such time as the checks were completed to prevent them absconding.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
Senior MP
Illegal immigrations, is it a crime ?
Well if it's a crime i think thousand of irish illegal in the united state should have been deported or place in detention centre until they're clared, a person was stopped and declared themself to be british and he was subsiquently deported and they later found out that, he was a naturalised british citizen but just because he's black and all the white illegal immigrant was left to abscond the immigration border line while the blacks suffer all your hate.
Cloud Nine.
Chancellor
Of course it's a crime! It's just that some countries like the USA have tended to turn a blind eye to much of it in the past because those immigrants have performed useful menial jobs which many Americans wouldn't do. Their economy is, or at least was, in a far better shape than ours to stand the illegal immigration.Illegal immigrations, is it a crime ?
Well if it's a crime i think thousand of irish illegal in the united state should have been deported or place in detention centre until they're clared, a person was stopped and declared themself to be british and he was subsiquently deported and they later found out that, he was a naturalised british citizen but just because he's black and all the white illegal immigrant was left to abscond the immigration border line while the blacks suffer all your hate.
The bottom line is if you're in any country other than officially - citizen, resident, tourist, on a work visa, etc., etc - you should be deported back to where you came from unless there are real and genuine mitigating circumstances why that shouldn't happen. Anyone in a country legally should have absolutely no problem proving that fact.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
Senior MP
He means, open the gates, everyone and anyone is welcome.
Ridiculous statement.
From SussexWithLove
Junior Member
Once the horse is out of the barn so to speak, it is hard to reverse or change the situation when such a high percentage of people come from other places so frequently. If new laws are passed there is rioting. If no laws are passed there is rioting.
It depends. I do not think we should deport people back to places where it is evident that they will be tortured or killed then I'd have to say that I could never support a policy that does this (it also breeches numerous international laws/ treaties and our own human rights legislation)
As for illegal economic migration it should not be too hard to discourage this. We can surely make it very hard to get a job or claim benefits without proper documentation. Then what will they live on and why come here at all if they cannot get work?
problem solved???? or not...maybe?
Junior Member
Well MN, that surely does sound logical but unfortunately it won't work. The unemployment rate is pretty high right now and they still come. The UK looks awful wonderful to someone who lives in a terribly hostile society where life and death are daily concerns. And food/shelter. Basic freedoms. The UK offers that without hesitation. It is a big draw. It is a superpower. Everyone thinks of great opportunities. This is only one set of draws though. I'm sure everyone else could list a set of reasons too.
Well if they are truly seeking asylum I think we should provide it.
Also living on the streets (coz you'd need documentation to get any type of housing) in the UK surviving on soup kitchens ain't too nice (been there, done that) and if that is a better living than where they come from I don't begrudge them it tbh.
Junior Member
I understand completely. Now we need to turn and look at it from the gov's side and from the locals who were born here or are 'legal.' Let's do it this way - where does the money come from that supports those illegals incoming from elsewhere? It is your taxes. Your taxes will continually go higher and increase with the increase in immigration - illegal of course. To be legal, they have to go through the legal paperwork, motions, and so forth. Do you know what the current "illegal" population rate is right now? I do not. But all social services are funded by ---- you! And anyone else who pays tax. This is one big problem. Are you going to continually pay to have people from hundreds, thousands of miles away show up on your doorstep?
but surely if they are forced to live on the streets and exist on charity then this does not cost the taxpayer anything - except maybe via the NHS (which will private soon enough anyway). The issue, i think, is after a certain period of being resident here (illegal or not) you are automatically given rights of a legal immigrant, but am not sure this is true.
Junior Member
UK taxes are some of the highest in the EU. Some of that money is used by the government to fund social services (where else are they going to get it from?). Ultimately, the working population pays. Isn't that how most of the social services are funded - via the gov? I am not sure on the time-to-get-rights thing, but I thought it had to do with working for some period of time. ?
I think it may be the case. I also think that social services have enough on their plate ( and are hugely underfunded so cannot cost THAT much)and often ignore the homeless which is usually catered for by the voluntary sector
Junior Member
yes homeless are usually taken care by volunteers or churches.
I see this other thread in this forum about immigrant pop size so I may venture in there too.
Yeah do. However I'm always the crazy one that challenges the consensus that immigration is completely out of control and we have the highest rate in the EU (which we simply don't).
I find it all a bit boring how everyone agrees on this point tbh.
Junior Member
OOps. Can't post in the other illegal thread - guess it's too old so Dougie locked it. So we'll just keep it going here I guess. Here was my reply:
What about quotas for specific countries? I think several other countries do this and once they exceed their yearly quota, that's it until the next year or whatever. Or maybe it's by a several-year block. That way we don't have hundreds of thousands coming in from one area alone.
And as Marx.Nt. mentioned, there should be some effort to assimilate and not only hide in like-neighborhoods. That does not promote assimilation into the country. AND - once in the country, they must abide by UK laws, UK political laws, not shiria. If they want shiria, got to stay in a country which is mainly shiria (as it is a political system). Two political systems cannot co-exist when they contradict each other on just about everything.
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