Rise in immigrants coming to UK, ONS data shows

[Midas]

Immigration to the UK continued to rise last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

About 590,000 people came to live in Britain in 2008, compared with 574,000 the year before, figures showed.

However, a growing number of people have been leaving the UK permanently. About 427,000 people emigrated last year, up from 341,000 in 2007.

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said most of this rise was because of non-UK citizens returning home.

Overall, net migration - the difference between those coming in and going out of the country - fell in 2008 by 70,000 to 163,000.

Levels of immigration to the UK in 2008 are just marginally below the 2006 record of 596,000 immigrants.

Most of the immigrants were single and were Britons returning home, Polish, Indian or Chinese. About half were aged between 25 and 44.

For those leaving the country, Australia, Poland, Germany, Spain and France had been the most popular countries to head to in 2008, the ONS said.

That year saw the highest number of people emigrate since 1991, the first year with comparable records.

The ONS said there had been a large increase in the number of people emigrating for work-related reasons, particularly those with a fixed job to go to.

In 2008, some 136,000 people emigrated from the UK to start a definite job, compared to 100,000 a year earlier.

Border and Immigration Minister Phil Woolas said the falling net migration showed migrants came to the UK for short periods of time to work, contribute to the economy and then return home.

He said the government's points-based system launched a year ago was allowing for greater control over those coming to work or study from outside Europe.

The story from : BBC News - Rise in immigrants coming to UK, ONS data shows

[DC]

Hmm, the issue is the data only takes into account legal immigrations, not illegal immigrations, which is the primary source for trouble.

[Barry]

Whichever way you look at it, that is 1,616 people arriving to live in the UK, each day of the week, 365 days of the years.

That is remarkable!

[Barry]

It also showed that the number of people LEAVING THE UK was at a record high in 2008, thus we can surely afford to let more people in??

1 word - unemployment

[Patriot1]

It also showed that the number of people LEAVING THE UK was at a record high in 2008, thus we can surely afford to let more people in??

Maybe we shouldn't untill unemployment decreases and we arent so overcrowded, fighting for university places and such.

[JacquesMagique]

good...

[Tete123]

Oh non no no

Seriously we need as many non EU students as possible. Those guys pay a FORTUNE to come to English unis - sometimes £10k per year. Universities need them. I'd rather not have to charge UK students that much. I hear now fees are £3,000/ year. I could never have gone to uni if that was the case when I left school, charge the foreigners so our students dont have to pay thru the nose - that's the idea altough i seems our students are paying thru the nose all the same !!

Also worth noting that foreign student have a significant contribution to the economy a 2007 Higher Education Policy Institute paper found that foreign students made a net estimate of £3.74 billion in the academic year 2004-05.

[Kiwi 1691]

Oh non no no

Seriously we need as many non EU students as possible. Those guys pay a FORTUNE to come to English unis - sometimes £10k per year. Universities need them. I'd rather not have to charge UK students that much. I hear now fees are £3,000/ year. I could never have gone to uni if that was the case when I left school, charge the foreigners so our students dont have to pay thru the nose - that's the idea altough i seems our students are paying thru the nose all the same !!

£3000!!!

Seriously, for me to study here it costs little over £1600 per year.

[Midas]

It also showed that the number of people LEAVING THE UK was at a record high in 2008, thus we can surely afford to let more people in??

NO! This country is way too overcrowded as it is, we're far from being able to support all our own indigenous citizens let alone hordes of immigrants, most of whom have little to no money to be able to support themselves without either taking jobs which should by rights go to British people, living off the state in once way or another or resorting to the black economy. That's in addition to the increasing rate of decline in British culture and the massive social problems building up around the country due to ever more immigrants arriving.

[DC]

RED HERRING (need a red herring emoticon) This planet is over crowded but I don't see people lining up to vow never to have kids etc. It's only as over crowded as is convienet to make an excuse to keep people with dark skin out of the country, coz you have already said over and over that you think African people are more stupid than white people - Racism I see you lurking!

Britain is overcrowded and is set to become more so with the high birth rate of immigrant famillies. Not to mention large scale immigration causes problems and undermines British culture. Britain does not need more immigrants, especially those from developing countries.

[angelcountry]

And ?

[Midas]

RED HERRING (need a red herring emoticon) This planet is over crowded but I don't see people lining up to vow never to have kids etc. It's only as over crowded as is convienet to make an excuse to keep people with dark skin out of the country, coz you have already said over and over that you think African people are more stupid than white people - Racism I see you lurking!

A straw man argument as you well know! We're not talking about the rest of the world being overcrowded, we're talking about the rise in immigration into the UK, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with race or religion, immigrants come in all shapes, sizes, colours and religions you know. This is yet another of your red herrings introduced to try to move discussions off topic to try to prove your point of view on some side issue. And what the hell has the lower innate intelligence of black Africans got to do with UK immigration?

Come on MN, try to stick to the point of the discussion, that there are far too many immigrants coming in to the UK.

[Patriot1]

Oh non no no

Seriously we need as many non EU students as possible. Those guys pay a FORTUNE to come to English unis - sometimes £10k per year. Universities need them. I'd rather not have to charge UK students that much. I hear now fees are £3,000/ year. I could never have gone to uni if that was the case when I left school, charge the foreigners so our students dont have to pay thru the nose - that's the idea altough i seems our students are paying thru the nose all the same !!

Well thats what it comes down to isnt it, money.

People would rather see our British kids without a degree, or a degree they cant do anything with because too many of our jobs are sent overseas or workers are flown in. Its a sad affair.

[angelcountry]

A straw man argument as you well know! We're not talking about the rest of the world being overcrowded, we're talking about the rise in immigration into the UK, and it's got absolutely nothing to do with race or religion, immigrants come in all shapes, sizes, colours and religions you know. This is yet another of your red herrings introduced to try to move discussions off topic to try to prove your point of view on some side issue. And what the hell has the lower innate intelligence of black Africans got to do with UK immigration?

Come on MN, try to stick to the point of the discussion, that there are far too many immigrants coming in to the UK.

The focus of the questions now is that, the u.k government should check the illegal from legal ones, or otherwise grant general amnesty to regulate the illegal immigrant with no right or obligation in your country which will bring the figure in line of accountability, i mean come on.

[Citizen Smith]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Supporters of Capitalism can have no complaints about immigration.

[angelcountry]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Supporters of Capitalism can have no complaints about immigration.

Please be a bit more elaborate on your point so that, if any of them illegals has problem we can help them in their judicial review administratively otherwise we'll create a standi in court for them.

[Barry]

The focus of the questions now is that, the u.k government should check the illegal from legal ones, or otherwise grant general amnesty to regulate the illegal immigrant with no right or obligation in your country which will bring the figure in line of accountability, i mean come on.

No amnesty, it just encourages others to arrive and lay low until the next amnesty.
I cite Spain as an example of this.

[JacquesMagique]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Supporters of Capitalism can have no complaints about immigration.

Absoluitely! It really bugs me how much of the centre right, so obsessed with the power of the market and who sneer at socialist intervention, go running to the hills on issues of national identity and immigration. At least the far right are honest in their criticism of free-market economics..

[pauli007001]

It also showed that the number of people LEAVING THE UK was at a record high in 2008, thus we can surely afford to let more people in??

Are the Numbers leaving equal to or higher than the numbers arriving?

Is the UK the second most overcrowded piece of real estate on the planet?

Wasnt it the UK that claimed 2 or 3 years ago that it had a housing shortage of at least 5 million homes?

Could this explain why the totalitarians at NULAB wish to exterminate all the workers and the country dwellers in order to concrete over the entire green area of the UK to build homes for those who they wish to bribe a vote out of???

[pauli007001]

Please be a bit more elaborate on your point so that, if any of them illegals has problem we can help them in their judicial review administratively otherwise we'll create a standi in court for them.

I remember them well, the best part of it was how the shift pattern was opposite from the others!!Ah the good old days.

[Midas]

I've said it before, I'll say it again:

Supporters of Capitalism can have no complaints about immigration.

Why? There's no correlation at all between capitalism and wanting to stand up for the rights of your own people, especially in the face of a socialist government who seem determined to do just the opposite.

[Citizen Smith]

Why? There's no correlation at all between capitalism and wanting to stand up for the rights of your own people, especially in the face of a socialist government who seem determined to do just the opposite.

Two words: FREEEEEE MARKET!!!!!
Capitalism always has the right to look for cheaper, better workers.
And New Labour is not a socialist party.
ANd who are our "Own people"

[Midas]

Two words: FREEEEEE MARKET!!!!!
Capitalism always has the right to look for cheaper, better workers.
And New Labour is not a socialist party.
ANd who are our "Own people"

Yes, of course capitalism has the right to look for the cheapest workers, but hand in hand with that, value for money can be far more important; in many industries cheaper is not always better, far from it. Also under free market capitalism, the workers have a right to both negotiate their own rates of pay and if they don't like what they get from employer 'A', go to employer 'B' who might be offering a better deal.

Who are our own people? Those people who have been born in the UK from parents who've been here for a couple of generations at least; people with their roots in British culture and the British way of life.

[angelcountry]

I remember them well, the best part of it was how the shift pattern was opposite from the others!!Ah the good old days.

Did you know what i get pist off with ?

A person that love to repeat event whether consistent or not but based on desire of clays, but i hope its somewhat obligatory or demand in the face of the statute or just a mear aforethought.

[JacquesMagique]

Yes, of course capitalism has the right to look for the cheapest workers, but hand in hand with that, value for money can be far more important; in many industries cheaper is not always better, far from it.

Then it's up to those individual firms to choose no?

Also under free market capitalism, the workers have a right to both negotiate their own rates of pay and if they don't like what they get from employer 'A', go to employer 'B' who might be offering a better deal.

But you want to restrict their freedom to make this choice?

[angelcountry]

then it's up to those individual firms to choose no?


But you want to restrict their freedom to make this choice?

l.o.l

[JAMC]

we can surely afford to let more people in??

Answer a question with a question:

Why would you want to?

I would agree that the UK can accomodate more people (with some re-organisation), but without a top-drawer, gold-plated reason I'm not going to agree that it should....

[angelcountry]

Answer a question with a question:

Why would you want to?

I would agree that the UK can accomodate more people (with some re-organisation), but without a top-drawer, gold-plated reason I'm not going to agree that it should....

Every country are making the same noise not only the u.k but there are many countries in the E.U that want to control the influx of immigrant aswell but i dont know what make them suggest roaming only in the u.k by virtue i think 2004 september which makes it absolute not case by case basis anyway ?

[JAMC]

Oh non no no

Seriously we need as many non EU students as possible. Those guys pay a FORTUNE to come to English unis - sometimes £10k per year. Universities need them. I'd rather not have to charge UK students that much. I hear now fees are £3,000/ year. I could never have gone to uni if that was the case when I left school, charge the foreigners so our students dont have to pay thru the nose - that's the idea altough i seems our students are paying thru the nose all the same !!

Forgive me for being an educational purist - but the notion of places at British universities being effectively available to the highest bidder makes me sick to my stomach. I can see an argument for allowing genuinely gifted students from abroad to study based on academic ability alone - particularly if said student happens to reside in a corner of the globe in which comparable tertiary education doesn't exist. Nevertheless the not-so-great british public need to be slapped round the head on this matter and realise that pimping out our universities to bankroll them isn't an answer. If we want the next generation to receive a decent education that maximizes their academic potential we need to abolish fees altogether and ensure that the truly gifted can attend university regardless of their parents wealth or background.

[JAMC]

I agree in principle, with the caveat that obviously British Universities benefit academically from internationalisation of the student base. However how would you propose to fund universities?

The way they used to be funded before the introduction of tuition fees. Tax.

[JacquesMagique]

Yes although it didn't seem to be able to do the job. I guess it just required a huge tax hike that Blair was unwilling to implement.

I'm under the impression that tuition fees were introduced because of the huge surge in numbers attending university. The amount of tax that would need to be collected to pay for this would be immense.

[JAMC]

Yes although it didn't seem to be able to do the job. I guess it just required a huge tax hike that Blair was unwilling to implement.

As Jacques suggests, the target of 50% university attendance is the most direct financial pressure.

I would cut this target back to 20% - universities should be difficult to get into. The selection criteria should also be based purely on academic attainment.

If there are any New Labour types within earshot I would say to them that their policy of 50% univeristy attendance was implemented primarily because it was supposed to improve social mobility - it has in fact had the opposite effect. The introduction of fees has meant that the only mobility going on is between the lower and upper middle classes, and the quality of the graduate pool has in fact been diluted. It's time to get rid of it.

[angelcountry]

Indeed silly degrees in tourism, street sweeping, Business management and other pointless things didn't help

I mean come what they hell is that now ?

[DC]

Is your nationality taken into account in Universities? For example I should think a British student should have precedence over an international student, whatever they're paying, to the point where International students have to prove themselves to be better than a British counterpart. Essentially shouldn't their scores be slight retarded to give precedence to British students?

[DC]

I don't think it is nor do I see any argument why it should be to be honest.

Even if they are paying money, the fact is after their tuition they're likely to return home, so Britain's academic resources are being sent overseas, whereas a British student who will stay in Britain loses a place for an international student.

Also I completely agree that all University's should take students solely on academic ability, social and financial status should not be taken into account in acceptance. If they were going for scholarships of course, but not the entry itself.

[Kiwi 1691]

Even if they are paying money, the fact is after their tuition they're likely to return home, so Britain's academic resources are being sent overseas, whereas a British student who will stay in Britain loses a place for an international student.

Also I completely agree that all University's should take students solely on academic ability, social and financial status should not be taken into account in acceptance. If they were going for scholarships of course, but not the entry itself.

I would have major questions about any University that turns people down based on anything other than their ability.

[pauli007001]

Did you know what i get pist off with ?

A person that love to repeat event whether consistent or not but based on desire of clays, but i hope its somewhat obligatory or demand in the face of the statute or just a mear aforethought.

Im with you on that one mate!!
I just prefer when the chocolate dosnt melt!!!

[paradigmshift]

There is much discussion of whether immigration should or should not be reduced, but rarely concrete proposals. Anyone good at numbers? By how many would the following reduce non-EU immigration? And would they be good ideas?

1. Only allow non-EU migrants to enter if they have a job offer.

2. Charge employers £10,000 to bring in each non-EU migrant worker.

3. Raise to 24 the age at which a UK resident is allowed to bring in a non-EU spouse.

[Barry]

There is much discussion of whether immigration should or should not be reduced, but rarely concrete proposals. Anyone good at numbers? By how many would the following reduce non-EU immigration? And would they be good ideas?

1. Only allow EU migrants to enter if they have a job offer.

2. Charge employers £10,000 to bring in each non-EU migrant worker.

3. Raise to 24 the age at which a UK resident is allowed to bring in a non-EU spouse.

I have no idea of the figures, despite being very good at mathematics.
However, I would just like to say that number 1 is irrelevant, as it would be against EU law.

[paradigmshift]

I have no idea of the figures, despite being very good at mathematics.
However, I would just like to say that number 1 is irrelevant, as it would be against EU law.

Barry, thank you. Number 1 should of course have said non-EU. I have edited it.


I've been reading how the Migration Advisory Committee works. They advise Government what the immigration rules should be. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/mac

I've also looked at the Points Based System rules. http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/managingborders/managingmigration/apointsbasedsystem/howitworks

What becomes clear is that the British people's views on immigration are irrelevant. All that matters is the God called "The Economy" to which everything else must be sacrificed.

The Migration Advisory Committee, as economists, recommend how to grant entry to immigrants whom they regard as beneficial to "The Economy". From this perspective the more immigrants the UK can attract the better. It is no part of the MAC's brief to reduce or limit immigration, nor do they feel any duty or pressure to do so. They do not take into account overcrowding, social tensions, green spaces disappearing for housing or indeed any factors that would suggest less immigration is desirable. They receive representations from employers and others who benefit from immigration but they do not receive input from those who would like less immigration. Their email address is mac@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

Two things are apparent from a study of the Points Based System (PBS): 1. It imposes no limit on the number of immigrants, though it does introduce a mechanism for doing so, and 2) in parts it is wide open to fraud: no doubt the Home Office would say it's up to those vetting applications to catch fraud, but that's rather like saying everyone must leave their money on the road outside their house and it's up to the police to stop people stealing it. Parts of the PBS are so flawed that only a vast numbers of checkers could stop abuse.

It is clear that if there was political will, a huge reduction in the numbers of non-EU immigrants could easily be achieved. All that would be lost would be some very dubious potential benefits to "the economy". Non-EU work permit immigration around 20,000 rather than 120,000 would be more than enough to fill vital vacancies in public service and vital vacancies in industry.

People generally prefer their politicians to be positive and in favour of something rather than against things. Having trawled through the data I'm now pro low immigration. http://pro-low-immigration.webs.com/

[mseice]

Is your nationality taken into account in Universities? For example I should think a British student should have precedence over an international student, whatever they're paying, to the point where International students have to prove themselves to be better than a British counterpart. Essentially shouldn't their scores be slight retarded to give precedence to British students?

I very much doubt it! - this is the UK after all - foreigners come first!