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hey Rociano,

Glad you made it

Welcome to the forum Rociano But another socialist; what is the world coming to??

Ignore him!
Another socialist we have been a little short recently - seems some have taken a hiatus. Welcome.

Welcome rociano! Albion has already done the formalities, but really do feel free to ask us about anything you need.

Always good to see another leftie I, like you, try to take a balanced view on things but I usually seem to come down on the side of socialism in an attempt to cancel out societie's inequalities at the start of life. If these inequalities were removed (i.e., meritocratic education) then I would be quite the Tory :P Will be interesting seeing you in debate!

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

Ignore him!

And there I was just starting to think you might be OK, O74, despite the Christian Socialist bit

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all" - Noam Chomsky

Originally Posted by Midas

And there I was just starting to think you might be OK, O74, despite the Christian Socialist bit

"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all" - Noam Chomsky

How wrong you were!
Like Chomsky quote btw.

Originally Posted by rociano

Hello all, my name is Rociano and I try to be as 'free thinking' as possible, but most would regard me as a socialist, I blame the 'I'm a Socialist' badge for that, my interests include playing golf, watching footy, trying to play guitar, trying to sing and doing 'car salesman' impressions in order to pay the mortgage.
I hope to spark the odd debate as well as contribute to the forum as best I can.

Golf and socialism go together about as well as the components in a turkmenistani dvd player. I've heard of "champaign socialist", but "9 iron socialist"?.

Originally Posted by rociano

Hello all, my name is Rociano and I try to be as 'free thinking' as possible, but most would regard me as a socialist.......

So, are you one of the "useful idiot" socialists that wants someone to do their thinking for them, or one of those socialists that wants to do all the thinking for everyone else, then have your opinions forced upon the populace at the point of the government's gun?


In case you haven't figured it out.......I am the right-wing hardliner your mother warned you about.

Welcome

Originally Posted by JAMC

Golf and socialism go together about as well as the components in a turkmenistani dvd player.

Not really. Have you ever heard of a Socialist Paradise for Workers and Peasants that didn't have an elite ruling class? Do you think members of the Soviet Politburo were living in a 6th floor walk-up flat, sharing a bathroom with neighbors, and standing in the bread lines?

Originally Posted by Tantal

Not really. Have you ever heard of a Socialist Paradise for Workers and Peasants that didn't have an elite ruling class? Do you think members of the Soviet Politburo were living in a 6th floor walk-up flat, sharing a bathroom with neighbors, and standing in the bread lines?

Obviously not as there has never been a true socialist state, any example you give of one will be an example of state capitalism.
Don't see why golf and socialism can't go together, or socialism and polo or any other leisure activity for that matter, just because something isn't a traditional working class persuit doesn't mean it can't be (come the revolution comrades).

Originally Posted by Tantal

So, are you one of the "useful idiot" socialists that wants someone to do their thinking for them, or one of those socialists that wants to do all the thinking for everyone else, then have your opinions forced upon the populace at the point of the government's gun?

This statement explains a lot, for a well informed man you have a fundamentally warped idea of the aims of socialism (that doesn't make your chosen criticisms invalid per se - just shy off the mark).

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

Obviously not as there has never been a true socialist state, any example you give of one will be an example of state capitalism.

Ah. I see. Since it's failed every time, that simply means that the others just didn't do it right. What's the definition of insanity again?

This statement explains a lot, for a well informed man you have a fundamentally warped idea of the aims of socialism (that doesn't make your chosen criticisms invalid per se - just shy off the mark).

There's nothing wrong with socialism on paper, it's just the execution that always gets screwed up. Socialism has invariably ended in tyranny.

Originally Posted by Tantal

There's nothing wrong with socialism on paper, it's just the execution that always gets screwed up. Socialism has invariably ended in tyranny.

Hoorah!
I agree although I still think that no communist revolution has seriously tried to implement it.
The execution of free market capitalism isn't running too smoothely either.

Originally Posted by Tantal

There's nothing wrong with socialism on paper, it's just the execution that always gets screwed up. Socialism has invariably ended in tyranny.

I'd go a little further in that by saying that many of the social, as in societal, aspects of socialism are fine in theory, and some of them in practice, however the whole socialist concept of equality is flawed. As are all animals, we humans are competitive by our nature, and no matter how much a society might try to say "we shouldn't be like that", the fact is that we are.

More than the right wing does, the left wing tries to force ideology on people even when it's patently obvious that it doesn't work. I'm sure that we can all quote specific examples on both sides of the political divide which are against that statement, but in general it is the case as history has shown again and again.

Originally Posted by Midas

More than the right wing does, the left wing tries to force ideology on people even when it's patently obvious that it doesn't work. I'm sure that we can all quote specific examples on both sides of the political divide which are against that statement, but in general it is the case as history has shown again and again.

Are you referring to Russia, China and all other "communist" twentieth century totalitarian states, because most Western European countries have incorporated socialist ideology into their systems via the democratic process somewhere.

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

Are you referring to Russia, China and all other "communist" twentieth century totalitarian states, because most Western European countries have incorporated socialist ideology into their systems via the democratic process somewhere.

Perhaps caught out by my own comment on 'labels' elsewhere, but fundamentally yes, I was. As long as it's done intelligently and all the pros and cons are weighed up, and as I've also said elsewhere, some of the societal aspects of socialism with a small 's' can be integrated quite successfully into a predominantly capitalist society. Getting the balance right is where the problem lies.

Originally Posted by Midas

Getting the balance right is where the problem lies.

Well thank God there's something left to debate!

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

Well thank God there's something left to debate!

Well, since it's Sunday and you've introduced your god into this, amen to that

And on that note I'm off down to the pub to eat one of the peasants, oops, I mean pheasants, I shot yesterday in a final farewell to the 2008/9 season I've no doubt that subject will provoke a new thread somewhere!

Originally Posted by Midas

Getting the balance right is where the problem lies.

There should be no balance. Socialism has proven itself time and again to be like cancer.... it likes to make itself bigger.......and, most importantly, SPREAD......usually by force.