Oh dear, I don't think you're going to like me....

Originally Posted by JAMC

Oh dear, I don't think you're going to like me....

Great! This is exactly why I wanted to become a member of a forum like this; to listen to peoples opinions, even if I disagree with them.

So what didn't you agree with that I just mentioned?

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Great! This is exactly why I wanted to become a member of a forum like this; to listen to peoples opinions, even if I disagree with them.

So what didn't you agree with that I just mentioned?

OK here goes...

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Well to start with obviously I am not Ronald Reagan, however he is a role model of mine and I am known as someone who is a staunch conservative.

My personal view is that Ronald Reagan is eclipsed perhaps only by GW Bush as the most reprehensible of US presidents. His administration embodied the worst aspects of the post-WW2 20th century - in conjunction with Margaret Thatcher (more apt for us I suppose being a primarily UK based forum). I suppose you could call me a liberal - and would be diometrically opposed to conservatism as an ideology.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

My views are typically very pure capitalist and I'll often find myself ranting about the size of government, regulation and taxes.

There is no sense in sugar-coating it, my personal views are extremely anti-capitalist. Have a look back through some recent posts of mine for reference...

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

On social issues I am also very typically conservative. e.g. Anti abortion, pro death penalty... etc.

I am pro-abortion and anti-death penalty.

Well, it would appear we are complete opposites.

Originally Posted by JAMC

OK here goes...

My personal view is that Ronald Reagan is eclipsed perhaps only by GW Bush as the most reprehensible of US presidents. His administration embodied the worst aspects of the post-WW2 20th century - in conjunction with Margaret Thatcher (more apt for us I suppose being a primarily UK based forum). I suppose you could call me a liberal - and would be diometrically opposed to conservatism as an ideology.

So to start with let me just say I disagree wholeheartedly with everything you just said. Ronald Reagan, in my opinion, is the greatest of all US presidents and I'm going to back my statement up with a few facts. Here goes:
-During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988).
-Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%.
-Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.4% per year.
-In the 1984 election, Reagan won a record 525 electoral votes, the most of any candidate in United States history, and received 58.8% of the popular vote to Mondale's 40.6%.

Originally Posted by JAMC

There is no sense in sugar-coating it, my personal views are extremely anti-capitalist. Have a look back through some recent posts of mine for reference...

I am pro-abortion and anti-death penalty.

I've always found pro-abortion and anti-death penalty very contradictory. So you will take the life of an innocent child but not that of a murderer?
At least be anti-death penalty and anti-abortion or else it just doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

At least be anti-death penalty and anti-abortion or else it just doesn't make sense.

Unlike being "pro-life" and pro death penalty which makes perfect sense!

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

Unlike being "pro-life" and pro death penalty which makes perfect sense!

Acctually, if you think about it, it does make sense. Abortion is the killing of an innocent child while the death penalty is the justified killing of someone who has killed an innocent person. Not to say that we should kill loads of doctors, because if roe v. wade was overturned and a new law was made, abortion would be illeagal anyway.
Just think about how you would feel if someone you loved was brutally killed for no reason. Would you be happy to send them to prison for 10-15 years (the sentance would probably be reduced if the behaved) and then just let them walk off again, possibly to do the same thing again?

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Acctually, if you think about it, it does make sense. Abortion is the killing of an innocent child while the death penalty is the justified killing of someone who has killed an innocent person. Not to say that we should kill loads of doctors, because if roe v. wade was overturned and a new law was made, abortion would be illeagal anyway.

If life is sacred (and my own view on abortion is somewhat confused hence not having posted on the current thread), then how much worse to allow the state the right to terminate it?

Just think about how you would feel if someone you loved was brutally killed for no reason. Would you be happy to send them to prison for 10-15 years (the sentance would probably be reduced if the behaved) and then just let them walk off again, possibly to do the same thing again?

That is why the victim doesn't decide the punishment, because I would no doubt want revenge rather than justice! Welcome to the forum btw.

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

If life is sacred (and my own view on abortion is somewhat confused hence not having posted on the current thread), then how much worse to allow the state the right to terminate it?.

The death penalty shows how much we value life by punishing those who think that they can kill innocent people. In killing an innocent person you therefore believe that their life is not valuable and that then devalues your own life.

Originally Posted by Opinionated74

That is why the victim doesn't decide the punishment, because I would no doubt want revenge rather than justice! Welcome to the forum btw.

Revenge and justice can be the same thing. Justice through revenge is what the death penalty and many other sentances provide.

Welcome to the forum, RR, hope you enjoy it. I have already seen your posts and I'm looking forward to discussing my evil leftie views with you

Originally Posted by DougieG

Welcome to the forum, RR, hope you enjoy it. I have already seen your posts and I'm looking forward to discussing my evil leftie views with you

Wow. It's like everyone in this forum is the complete opposite to what I am. Is there anyone out there like me?

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Wow. It's like everyone in this forum is the complete opposite to what I am. Is there anyone out there like me?

Tantal.... possibly.

Originally Posted by JAMC

Tantal.... possibly.

Oh good, I'm really concerned with how many people have very communistic views these days, they need to be reminded just how much of a terrible system it is.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Ronald Reagan, in my opinion, is the greatest of all US presidents

OK for the record;

My top 3
- Franklin Roosevelt
- Washington
- Kennedy

My bottom 3
- G W Bush
- Reagan
- Nixon

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

and I'm going to back my statement up with a few facts. Here goes:
-During Jimmy Carter's last year in office (1980), inflation averaged 12.5%, compared to 4.4% during Reagan's last year in office (1988).
-Over those eight years, the unemployment rate declined from 7.1% to 5.5%.
-Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the 1982 recession and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.4% per year.
-In the 1984 election, Reagan won a record 525 electoral votes, the most of any candidate in United States history, and received 58.8% of the popular vote to Mondale's 40.6%.

a) Economic factors alone are not a measure of the state of society as a whole.
b) Popularity in the long term can turn out to be little more than a collective duping in a nation's history - people voted for Thatcher and Blair 3 times in succession, and in America they voted for AND RETURNED G.w.Bush to office.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

I've always found pro-abortion and anti-death penalty very contradictory. So you will take the life of an innocent child but not that of a murderer?
At least be anti-death penalty and anti-abortion or else it just doesn't make sense.

a) giving the state the power to legally take someone's life, particularly coming from someone who advocates the limitation of government power in every instance (other than this) I also find contradictory.
b) I don't consider a foetus that is incapable of surviving outside the uterus to be a person in the legal sense, i.e. enjoying the same ineliable rights as you and I. All the contrary arguments seem to have fundamentally religious roots as opposed to logical.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Oh good, I'm really concerned with how many people have very communistic views these days, they need to be reminded just how much of a terrible system it is.

Maybe you live in China Reagan. Communism never happened over here. Its a sign of progress not the red army.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Oh good, I'm really concerned with how many people have very communistic views these days, they need to be reminded just how much of a terrible system it is.

A cynic may view this as an attempt to divert attention away from the chronic flaws of the current capitalist model.

Originally Posted by JAMC

a) Economic factors alone are not a measure of the state of society as a whole.

He won by the biggest landslide in US history. That's what I call bringing society together.

Originally Posted by JAMC

a) giving the state the power to legally take someone's life, particularly coming from someone who advocates the limitation of government power in every instance (other than this) I also find contradictory.

The way you say it makes it sound so bad. Should people live good and honest lives the government will never need to infringe on their freedoms, however, when a murder is committed I think it is extremely important that justice is served no matter what it takes. (Within reason).

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

The death penalty shows how much we value life .....

Hi RR. I never knew you were such a comedian!!

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

Hi RR. I never knew you were such a comedian!!

Yes, I understand how that could sound contradictory but it angers me so much that a murderer can go to prison but come out possibly in under 10 years when the lives of the families of the person who has been murdered can never be the same again. I would at least like to see a life sentence for murderers, however that would end up costing a lot more and criminals don't deserve to have themselves cared for. Especially murderers.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

He won by the biggest landslide in US history. That's what I call bringing society together.

It doesn't stack up when you break down the figures;

1960 (Kennedy) 63.06% Turnout
1964 (Johnson) 60.92% Turnout
1968 (Nixon) 60.83% Turnout
1972 (Nixon) 55.21% Turnout
1976 (Carter) 53.55% Turnout
1980 (Reagan) 52.66% Turnout
1984 (Reagan) 53.11% Turnout
1988 (Bush Snr) 50.11% Turnout
1992 (Clinton) 55.09% Turnout

Reagan received 525 electoral college votes (out of 538) in 1984, but the true split by popular vote was 58.8% Reagan, 40.6% Mondale. Hardly a "landslide" - more an amplification of the Republican-biased voting system in American politics.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

The way you say it makes it sound so bad.

That's because it is.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Should people live good and honest lives the government will never need to infringe on their freedoms, however, when a murder is committed I think it is extremely important that justice is served no matter what it takes. (Within reason).

Your approach leaves the door open for governments to determine what is "good and honest" - which is not a situation I will ever accept.

Originally Posted by JAMC

Reagan received 525 electoral college votes (out of 538) in 1984, but the true split by popular vote was 58.8% Reagan, 40.6% Mondale. Hardly a "landslide" - more an amplification of the Republican-biased voting system in American politics.

If anything the voting system is biased towards the democrats because they frequently win fewer states than the republicans however still win. Although 58.8% to 40.6% may not look like a big win it actually is. When Obama won it was only around 51% to 48%.

Originally Posted by JAMC

Your approach leaves the door open for governments to determine what is "good and honest" - which is not a situation I will ever accept.

You appear to have made a U-turn from your usually communistic views in this statement. I thought you loved the government controlling every aspect of your life? After all, isn't that the communist view? Or did I misread the Communist Manifesto?

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

If anything the voting system is biased towards the democrats because they frequently win fewer states than the republicans however still win.

I had to read that twice because I simply couldn't believe you actually wrote it. I cannot believe you expect the members of a politics forum to be unaware of the fact that the states each carry a weighting based on population (biased in favour of the republican states), and that the 2000 election was won by a republican when the democratic candidate received a greater share of the popular vote.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

You appear to have made a U-turn from your usually communistic views in this statement. I thought you loved the government controlling every aspect of your life?

Err..... no.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

After all, isn't that the communist view? Or did I misread the Communist Manifesto?

I don't know - everyone interprets it differently. Which part says that "the government must control every aspect of everyone's life" or similar?

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

You appear to have made a U-turn from your usually communistic views in this statement. I thought you loved the government controlling every aspect of your life? After all, isn't that the communist view? Or did I misread the Communist Manifesto?

This is a straw man. I don't remember JAMC ever saying that he was a communist, and nor did he advocate state control over all aspects of life. In fact, he is extremely liberal indeed.

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

Wow. It's like everyone in this forum is the complete opposite to what I am. Is there anyone out there like me?

Hi RR !!

Just posting this to assure you that not everyone is as opposed to you on this forum as your taste from this thread might suggest. In fact, I advertise myself as staunchly Thatcherite. Also there's one other person I know of who I think maintains a similar viewpoint.

However ... of all the forums I've contributed to, both here and in America, I've yet to see one where Left-wing viewpoints so dominate it as this one evidently does (if my little sample is anything to go by, this one definitely does NOT conform to the norm in that respect !). I suspect that if you enjoy argumentation, this site will amply fulfil your wildest dreams !!!

I hope your experience here will turn out to be a good one for you ... our side can do with all the representation here it can get !!!

Welcome, and, er'm, enjoy !!

Originally Posted by Baldilocks

I suspect that if you enjoy argumentation, this site will amply fulfil your wildest dreams !!!

Thank you for the endorsement there Baldi!

Originally Posted by midas

thank you for the endorsement there baldi!

.... Er'm ..

Oh, and RR, another thing you might have to contend with is the inexplicable failure of this site to take some of the remarks you try to post here !! I HAD intended a more direct reply to Midas .. (including a 'smiley' from the selection offered, which this site now refuses to recognise !!) .. but, after THREE such attempts at my intended reply, I've had to give up on it. [Maybe THIS will survive ???]

I also sometimes find that this site simply wipes the text you've entered on the screen just moments before you try and post it. My suggestion .. regularly back up what you're typing on a Word document, for example, so at least you don't lose your intended wording (something I'll be doing from now on .. I've really had enough of this site doing that to me !!!).

Originally Posted by Baldilocks

..... :d

Baldi, have you considered that the more you go on about how the forum is full of lefties the more people will believe you and so you may further discourage conservatives from joining.... I may be wrong...just a thought!

Originally Posted by Marxist Nutter

Baldi, have you considered that the more you go on about how the forum is full of lefties the more people will believe you and so you may further discourage conservatives from joining.... I may be wrong...just a thought!

Originally Posted by Baldilocks http://www.politic.co.uk/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
..... :d

... RIGHT !!!!!

Marxist Nutter ... HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN AWAY THE FAILURE OF ONE OF MY PREVIOUS POSTS REACHING THIS THREAD .. YET YOU COULD STILL QUOTE FROM IT ????????

What I suspected to be true evidently IS. My posting IS being intercepted before it reaches the thread !!

Marxist Nutter ... apologise for this immediately. I shall raise a complaint if I do not see your apology within fifteen minutes from now.