One more thing, for those who cannot bear to read anything that wasn't written by them, you can skip the whole topic and just scroll down to the pictures.

A reminder to all Members DO NOT use Graphic Upsetting Images or links to make political points.

Originally Posted by Hestia

With its unconventional weapons, its F16s, its seige and its tanks that are running civilians over, with over 700 Palestinians dead 250 of which are children, 100 of which are women, with over 3100 bleeding to death in hospitals that are being bombarded and that lack medications, water, electricity or any other thing. With 50 women and children dead while hiding at the UNRWA schools that were bombarded by Israel. With Israeli bullets settling in in Palestinian children's chests and with those who manage to live the bombardments starving to death ... I hereby declare that the world as we know it has come to an end, Israel fought for our sake, Israel fought and killed terrorists!



This is what Israel is doing to children! Children for God's sake! And then you wonder how anyone has the heart to blow himself up somewhere in Israel after watching his kids die infront of his own eyes, after having to burry their kids whose only vice is that they were born on a land Israel wants. How could anyone just look at those pictures and move on with their lives? The sight of bleeding children, of dead children brought me to tears, I can only imagine what it was like for someone who had to live this, who has to live this every single day for the rest of his life.

Have a good day all, oh and dear moderators, in case you wanted to edit the post and remove the link, I actually asked if I can post pictures (Which I didn't) and the only restriction on posting pictures was that they weren't tasteless, unless you consider dead children to be tasteless.

"And then you wonder how anyone has the heart to blow himself up somewhere in Israel after watching his kids die infront of his own eyes"

i'm really sorry to blow your theory, but the "palestinians" did suicide bombing before the war- and before we "killed" children.
that's showing how liar you are.
have a good day terror supporter.

Originally Posted by Albion 69

A reminder to all Members DO NOT use Graphic Upsetting Images or links to make political points.

But you didn't mention that specific restriction when I asked about pictures, I also didn't post pictures I just provided a link, how about I add a banner explaining that those images are "upsetting" and you leave it to members' to decide whether they want to see the pictures or not, since you removed the link because it might upset people as you explained, I don't think you would mind my suggestion, that of course unless you disregard it to make a political point.

Anybody interested in seeing the edited link please contact me!

Originally Posted by Hestia

Were you born 12 days ago?
Go read man. Educate yourself.

well actually i born 16 years ago IN ISRAEL
so if someone knows when palestinians suicide bombed themselves is me!
and i'm not a man, i'm a woman.

palestinians didn't suicide bombed themselves during this war,
so don't lie to me.
and you are the one who need to be educated.. cause i think the Hamas taught you everything you know. you are just another brainwashed girl by terror organizations!

Originally Posted by Danielle..

well actually i born 16 years ago IN ISRAEL
so if someone knows when palestinians suicide bombed themselves is me!
and i'm not a man, i'm a woman.

palestinians didn't suicide bombed themselves during this war,
so don't lie to me.
and you are the one who need to be educated.. cause i think the Hamas taught you everything you know. you are just another brainwashed girl by terror organizations!

Alright, let me break it down in points for you.

Were you born 12 days ago? Is a rhetorical question that indicates your lack of knowledge regarding everything that had happened before 12 days, before the bombardment on Gaza started. Sarcasm, something people resort to sometimes when are faced by angry racists.
This smiley ( ) being green like the flag of Hamas does not indicate a supporter of Hamas. So again, .
Go read : This isn't the first Palestinian-Israeli war, and those aren't the first Palestinians that were killed by Israel. 60 years of terrorism from Israel's side is something you can easily google.

Yes I never claimed to know everything or a lot for that matter, I'm working on educating myself EVEN MORE, still, I do not discuss things I know nothing about, that is why you don't see me anywhere near the economy and money related threads.

Hamas taught me nothing because 1) I'm Jordanian and not Palestinian. 2) Never been to Palestine. 3) Never met with anyone from Hamas or a supporter of Hamas. 4) I do not support Hamas or Fateh, I support a united organization that doesn't split Palestinians into two categories. An organization that can produce missiles that do not serve only as fireworks and with which can defend the Palestinian civilians who are being bombarded by Israel's F16s.

Originally Posted by Hestia

But you didn't mention that specific restriction when I asked about pictures, I also didn't post pictures I just provided a link, how about I add a banner explaining that those images are "upsetting" and you leave it to members' to decide whether they want to see the pictures or not, since you removed the link because it might upset people as you explained, I don't think you would mind my suggestion, that of course unless you disregard it to make a political point.

Anybody interested in seeing the edited link please contact me!

Did i say you posted pictures ? . Pictures/links of dead and injured Israelis and Palestinians have previously been removed in other threads. Political points can be made without the use of graphic upsetting images/links . Any further correspondence on this issue will be conducted by PM.

Originally Posted by Hestia

Alright, let me break it down in points for you.

Were you born 12 days ago? Is a rhetorical question that indicates your lack of knowledge regarding everything that had happened before 12 days, before the bombardment on Gaza started. Sarcasm, something people resort to sometimes when are faced by angry racists.
This smiley ( ) being green like the flag of Hamas does not indicate a supporter of Hamas. So again, .
Go read : This isn't the first Palestinian-Israeli war, and those aren't the first Palestinians that were killed by Israel. 60 years of terrorism from Israel's side is something you can easily google.

Yes I never claimed to know everything or a lot for that matter, I'm working on educating myself EVEN MORE, still, I do not discuss things I know nothing about, that is why you don't see me anywhere near the economy and money related threads.

Hamas taught me nothing because 1) I'm Jordanian and not Palestinian. 2) Never been to Palestine. 3) Never met with anyone from Hamas or a supporter of Hamas. 4) I do not support Hamas or Fateh, I support a united organization that doesn't split Palestinians into two categories. An organization that can produce missiles that do not serve only as fireworks and with which can defend the Palestinian civilians who are being bombarded by Israel's F16s.

you must be kidding.
1. I understood your unsophisticated sarcasem.
2. when you justify terror methods like bombing suicides- it mean your'e a terror supporter!
3. educate your self with objective materials- not by Hamas planted media.
4. for 8 years israel didn't react to the palestinians terror methods - untill this war i mean.
so we didn't kill any palestinian children before it, and the Hamas just came and bombing suicide us.
don't tell me that it's people that their children got killed by us cause it's absolutly not true. it's terrorist that want to kill jews .

Originally Posted by Danielle..

you must be kidding.
1. I understood your unsophisticated sarcasem.

Be careful the next time you fire an insult, it might just hurt my feelings. But it didn't this time so you're off the hook!

2. when you justify terror methods like bombing suicides- it mean your'e a terror supporter!

I didn't justify it, I simply stated that Israel by killing children creates terrorists, and then you wonder where they all came from and what made them do that.

3. educate your self with objective materials- not by Hamas planted media.

Oh alright, glad you clarified that one, any suggested links to Israeli planted media?

4. for 8 years israel didn't react to the palestinians terror methods - untill this war i mean.
so we didn't kill any palestinian children before it, and the Hamas just came and bombing suicide us.
don't tell me that it's people that their children got killed by us cause it's absolutly not true. it's terrorist that want to kill jews .

As I said, go read, this is hopeless and fruitless.

Originally Posted by Hestia

Be careful the next time you fire an insult, it might just hurt my feelings. But it didn't this time so you're off the hook!


I didn't justify it, I simply stated that Israel by killing children creates terrorists, and then you wonder where they all came from and what made them do that.


Oh alright, glad you clarified that one, any suggested links to Israeli planted media?



As I said, go read, this is hopeless and fruitless.

i see news from all over the world, so i see objective materials.

you did justify that.. cause you didn't mentioned that it's something wrong to do
and you gave "reason of why they doing that" and that we shouldn't wonder.. if that's not justifying i really don't know what else it can be..

I'm exposed to American media. (Which is obviously biased torward Israel.)
However, it's at the point where you can't say what Israel is doing is ethical. It's like somebody pinched you so you decided to shoot them. Doesn't make much sense.
And yes, a harmless school was bombed. Unless all of the American media is wrong.

U.N. agency demands Israel support claims about militants at school - CNN.com

Originally Posted by claire

I'm exposed to American media. (Which is obviously biased torward Israel.)
However, it's at the point where you can't say what Israel is doing is ethical. It's like somebody pinched you so you decided to shoot them. Doesn't make much sense.
And yes, a harmless school was bombed. Unless all of the American media is wrong.

U.N. agency demands Israel support claims about militants at school - CNN.com

Pssst, Claire, you're not supposed to add links to websites that might contain upsetting pictures of what Israel has done to Palestinians, and that includes ... every link under the sun, because it's everywhere! But lets just pretend they don't exist and instead mention numbers that pro-Israeli members can deny, they can't deny pictures but numbers are easy to deny.

The latest on the Gaza bombardment:

The ICRC

The International Committee for the Red Cross (ICRC) on Thursday accused the Israeli military of not helping wounded Palestinians in an incident in Gaza City that it described as "shocking".

ICRC and Palestinian Red Crescent workers said in a statement that several wounded Palestinians and four weakened children were found alongside 12 dead bodies in houses hit by shelling in Zaytun, less than 100 metres from Israeli positions.

"The ICRC believes that in this instance the Israeli military failed to meet its obligation under international humanitarian law to care for and evacuate the wounded," it said.
The Red Cross team, including four ambulances, had only gained safe passage from Israeli army to access the neighbourhood on January 7 after trying for four days, the ICRC said.

Meanwhile, Israeli security forces in the occupied West Bank shot dead a Palestinian in a confrontation at a Jewish settlement near Jerusalem, Israeli radio reported.

***

Israel fires on UN Gaza convoy :


At least one Palestinian has been killed after a UN relief agency convoy came under fire from Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip, officials say.

The attack took place on Thursday as the lorries travelled to the Erez crossing to pick up supplies that were to have been allowed in during a three-hour ceasefire.
Thursday's pause in the 13-day Israeli offensive to allow humanitarian aid into the strip was scheduled to last from 1pm (11:00 GMT) to 4pm (14:00 GMT).

The Israeli military said that it was checking reports of the incident.
John Ging, the head of the UN relief agency in Gaza, said that the casualties were Palestinian civilian contractors contracted to bring supplies from the crossing points.
"They were co-ordinating their movements with the Israelis, as they always do, only to find themselves being fired at from the ground troops," he told Al Jazeera.
"It has resulted tragically in the death of one and the injury of two others."

Wednesday's three-hour ceasefire allowed beleaguered Gazans and aid workers to recover dead bodies, treat the wounded, and gather much-needed supplies in and around Gaza City.

***

Source: Al Jazeera

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Israel accused over Gaza wounded

Source: BBC

Israel accused over Gaza wounded


The Red Cross has accused Israel of failing to fulfil its obligation to help wounded civilians in Gaza.
ICRC staff found four weak and scared children beside their mothers' bodies in houses hit by shelling in Zeitoun.
The Israeli military has not yet responded to the accusation, but said it worked closely with aid groups so that civilians could get assistance.
Meanwhile, the United Nations said it was suspending aid operations in Gaza because of the danger to its staff.
"Unwra decided to suspend all its operations in the Gaza Strip because of the increasing hostile actions against its premises and personnel," a UN spokesman was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying. On Thursday, the UN relief agency Unwra said one person had been killed and two injured when a fork-lift truck on a UN aid mission came under Israeli tank fire at Gaza's Erez crossing.

***


'Access denied' The International Committee of the Red Cross accused Israel of failing in its international obligations after its staff were met with "shocking" scenes.
One medical team found 12 bodies in a shelled house, and alongside them four very young children, too weak to stand, waiting by their dead mothers, the ICRC said.

Aid workers had been denied access to the site for days, it added.
"This is a shocking incident," Pierre Wettach, ICRC head for Israel and the Palestinian territories said in a statement.
"The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded. Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestinian Red Crescent to assist the wounded." Correspondents say the criticism is unusually strong, coming from an agency considered to be neutral.

"Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position," it said in a statement. While Palestinian families reported that in some cases Palestinian gunmen agreed to leave areas near civilian homes without firing at Israeli forces, the statement went on, "in other cases they have refused the residents' requests and only left after firing".

They just showed a video on Al Jazeera of Israeli soldiers lining up captives from Palestinian demonstrations, they're blind folded and on their knees. Officials say they're worried Israel will execute the Palestinian protesters. I'll provide a link to the video as soon as someone uploads it online!

Originally Posted by Hestia

I'll provide a link to the video as soon as someone uploads it online!

i saw that but it wouldn't be something new to add to the occupation force's history that is filled with massacares!

Originally Posted by proudArab

i saw that but it wouldn't be something new to add to the occupation force's history that is filled with massacares!

Except no one can claim Israel was "defending" itself against protesters ... screams? That were a huge threat to the Israeli people.
Do you have a link to the video?

Originally Posted by proudArab

i saw that but it wouldn't be something new to add to the occupation force's history that is filled with massacares!

So you believe the video posted by another 'terrorist supporter' even tho, you blatanlty said on my vide about the school being used by terrorist as being fake!

YOU SIR ARE A HYPROCRITE!!

Originally Posted by Trevortt

So you believe the video posted by another 'terrorist supporter' even tho, you blatanlty said on my vide about the school being used by terrorist as being fake!

YOU SIR ARE A HYPROCRITE!!

That would be : You Miss ProudArab, a she.
Anyway, Al Jazeera is a news agency, it interviewed a lot of Israeli officials and it still does, so if the video that shows Israeli soldiers wearing Israeli army uniforms lining up blind folded Palestinians is fake rest assured that some Israeli official will deny it, it still hasn't been denied by any Israelis although it was aired a couple of hours ago. Regarding your video, can you please give me a link to it? Also, what school and what terrorists are you speaking of? Clarify please.

Originally Posted by Hestia

That would be : You Miss ProudArab, a she.
Anyway, Al Jazeera is a news agency, it interviewed a lot of Israeli officials and it still does, so if the video that shows Israeli soldiers wearing Israeli army uniforms lining up blind folded Palestinians is fake rest assured that some Israeli official will deny it, it still hasn't been denied by any Israelis although it was aired a couple of hours ago. Regarding your video, can you please give me a link to it? Also, what school and what terrorists are you speaking of? Clarify please.

no hestia i don't have the link to the video regarding your topic
and regarding his video its a video just like many of the video games that shows unclear people from a building doing something and in the video they wrote that palestinians were shooting rockets from school, i don't see the hypocrisy in me saying were does it show that this is even palestine where does it show that those are palestinians were does it show that this is a school, on the other hand i can provide thousands of links regarding palestinians and other Arab being murdered in massacares real massacares and ive already posted one before and i think that we have beaten this horse till death providing evidence on the barbarism of the occupation forces but as i said before and as u say in amman with some people de2 l may may

Originally Posted by Hestia

Pssst, Claire, you're not supposed to add links to websites that might contain upsetting pictures of what Israel has done to Palestinians, and that includes ... every link under the sun, because it's everywhere! But lets just pretend they don't exist and instead mention numbers that pro-Israeli members can deny, they can't deny pictures but numbers are easy to deny.

yeah of course..
numbers are easy to deny so your palestinians friend using it
shall i show you some pictures? you can't deny them, so let go of numbers
i'll show you pictures!

Nice thread Hestia, that one was really diplomatic, sadly you nailed your colours to the mast and pretty much ruined your own argument before you started.....

That being said, I guess the western world doesn't need Al Jazeera giving us their islam spin on everything, just like we don't need Israeli spun accounts either.

I have made if clear through most of my posts that i don't agree with the disproportionate action that Israel is taking, I also disagree with the comments about Hamas not being happy until they have driven every last Israeli into the sea.

Like i've said before, and i don't really care whether you agree with me or not on this one, this is not a war of two nations, this is a war of hatred based on religeon.

The middle east is immersed in a war because of two differing religeous views. one side claims that the infidel stole land that was rightfully theirs, the other claims that God gave them the land, sadly neither side can be objective enough to see that Both sides have historical claims to Israel and neither has any total claim to the land.

We all deplore what is happening in the middle east, and are sickened that Israel will bomb a school or kill UN civilians with impunity, if they can do that to independant people trying to help the palistinians, we can well believe your claims about children.

But then again, why did Hamas feel the need to fire a rocket on an old folks home, wouldn't you say that Hamas's actions are equally as bad?

The truth of the matter is nether side will be happy until they have achieved their hate fuelled objective, my limited understanding of islamic teaching tells me that Islam is a peaceful religeon, so where in the Koran does it say that Muslims should burn Israeli flags and shout death to Israel?

if we were all to follow our religeous teaching, we would all be looking for a peaceful way to settle this conflict, but like always, when hatred is involved, human beings will happily twist the truth to make it achieve the current objective.

I can take many passages in the bible and twist them out of context to make them fit any agenda i have, Israel has taken the old testement and warped it's value's to suit their own military ends, whilst teaching their kids, a warped sense of religeon.

where does it all end hestia? how much blood has to be spilled before someone steps back and finally uses common sense and realises that life lost is one life too many over what? a few miles of land? the Israeli's have no intention of going anywhere, neither do the Palistinians, so common sense should tell us that the only way to resolve this is to sit down and mark out clear boundaries that everyone can live with.

But then the radicals on both sides don't want this, for them there has to be a winner and their has to be a loser....their has to be hatred to make their lives worthwhile.

Do you honestly think that by killing innocent people in gods name, god will thank you at a later date? or will he sit in judgement of your motives for taking the actions that you took?

I am a practising Christian and i know what is written, but i also know the principals behind it too. I have spoken to more than enough practising muslims to know that Islam has many similarities to my own faith....

The Jewish faith is founded on our old testement, please tell me which god can truly condone what is happening in the middle east right now....

We will not be judged on the actions of others, we will be judged on our own actions, and our reasons for taking those actions, I don't know of any religeon that advocates Hatred as a reason for anything.

3. educate your self with objective materials- not by Hamas planted media.

Danielle, it would seem ironic for you to say something like this, given that your country has banned international media sources from Palistine, why, because they don't want the world knowing what measures your government is taking.

Should we rely on your countries version of things?

Maybe you should take a step back and put your personal feelings to the side and ask yourself whether your god would advocate what your country is doing in his name....then look at the unbiased media sources accounting for both sides...

We all know that both sides are wrong in their actions, but how many have to die before someone finally realises that War is not the answer, killing and murder is not the answer....man has the ability to learn from it's mistakes although, it seems that both sides are so immersed in hatred that they don't want to learn...

You are a smart girl Danielle, Surely you must conceed that both sides have committed acts that are wrong, or will you let what is happening cloud your judgement.

"Change starts with a single voice....a voice that will speak up for what is just....a voice that will continually shout for the truth in a sea of lies, a voice that will never rest until it has been proven correct."

Do you want to be a mouth piece for your goverment or do you want to use the moral conciense that your lord and creator gave you to seek out the truth, no matter how grousome it is.

Do you honestly want this conflict to continue to take lives, or do you really want this conflict to end? we all know what our conscience is telling us, it is whether we want to listen....that is the first step to peace in the middle east.

Originally Posted by The voice of reason

Nice thread Hestia, that one was really diplomatic, sadly you nailed your colours to the mast and pretty much ruined your own argument before you started.....

That being said, I guess the western world doesn't need Al Jazeera giving us their islam spin on everything, just like we don't need Israeli spun accounts either.

I have made if clear through most of my posts that i don't agree with the disproportionate action that Israel is taking, I also disagree with the comments about Hamas not being happy until they have driven every last Israeli into the sea.

Like i've said before, and i don't really care whether you agree with me or not on this one, this is not a war of two nations, this is a war of hatred based on religeon.

The middle east is immersed in a war because of two differing religeous views. one side claims that the infidel stole land that was rightfully theirs, the other claims that God gave them the land, sadly neither side can be objective enough to see that Both sides have historical claims to Israel and neither has any total claim to the land.

We all deplore what is happening in the middle east, and are sickened that Israel will bomb a school or kill UN civilians with impunity, if they can do that to independant people trying to help the palistinians, we can well believe your claims about children.

But then again, why did Hamas feel the need to fire a rocket on an old folks home, wouldn't you say that Hamas's actions are equally as bad?

The truth of the matter is nether side will be happy until they have achieved their hate fuelled objective, my limited understanding of islamic teaching tells me that Islam is a peaceful religeon, so where in the Koran does it say that Muslims should burn Israeli flags and shout death to Israel?

if we were all to follow our religeous teaching, we would all be looking for a peaceful way to settle this conflict, but like always, when hatred is involved, human beings will happily twist the truth to make it achieve the current objective.

I can take many passages in the bible and twist them out of context to make them fit any agenda i have, Israel has taken the old testement and warped it's value's to suit their own military ends, whilst teaching their kids, a warped sense of religeon.

where does it all end hestia? how much blood has to be spilled before someone steps back and finally uses common sense and realises that life lost is one life too many over what? a few miles of land? the Israeli's have no intention of going anywhere, neither do the Palistinians, so common sense should tell us that the only way to resolve this is to sit down and mark out clear boundaries that everyone can live with.

But then the radicals on both sides don't want this, for them there has to be a winner and their has to be a loser....their has to be hatred to make their lives worthwhile.

Do you honestly think that by killing innocent people in gods name, god will thank you at a later date? or will he sit in judgement of your motives for taking the actions that you took?

I am a practising Christian and i know what is written, but i also know the principals behind it too. I have spoken to more than enough practising muslims to know that Islam has many similarities to my own faith....

The Jewish faith is founded on our old testement, please tell me which god can truly condone what is happening in the middle east right now....

We will not be judged on the actions of others, we will be judged on our own actions, and our reasons for taking those actions, I don't know of any religeon that advocates Hatred as a reason for anything.



Danielle, it would seem ironic for you to say something like this, given that your country has banned international media sources from Palistine, why, because they don't want the world knowing what measures your government is taking.

Should we rely on your countries version of things?

Maybe you should take a step back and put your personal feelings to the side and ask yourself whether your god would advocate what your country is doing in his name....then look at the unbiased media sources accounting for both sides...

We all know that both sides are wrong in their actions, but how many have to die before someone finally realises that War is not the answer, killing and murder is not the answer....man has the ability to learn from it's mistakes although, it seems that both sides are so immersed in hatred that they don't want to learn...

You are a smart girl Danielle, Surely you must conceed that both sides have committed acts that are wrong, or will you let what is happening cloud your judgement.

"Change starts with a single voice....a voice that will speak up for what is just....a voice that will continually shout for the truth in a sea of lies, a voice that will never rest until it has been proven correct."

Do you want to be a mouth piece for your goverment or do you want to use the moral conciense that your lord and creator gave you to seek out the truth, no matter how grousome it is.

Do you honestly want this conflict to continue to take lives, or do you really want this conflict to end? we all know what our conscience is telling us, it is whether we want to listen....that is the first step to peace in the middle east.

the israeli media isn't blocking nothing.
i see al jaseera, ramttan - and all those channels.
sometimes, they put in our news parts of the arabs news!
i bet they don't do it in Gaza.

i'll never make a political opinion if i haven't herad the "two sides of the corner".
( by the way, i really loved the metaphore voice of truth in sea of lies )
i investigate both sides of this problem.
and iv'e got to say, that I still support israel.
they say that we kill chlidren - i can show you a proof that the Hamas is admiting their using inoccent people as human shield.
i can proof you that for sure, if you want i'll send it to you in private message.
i have videos of israel army throwing flyers with "leave you houses" before bombing.
i have facts of the amount of missiles who got lunched on Sderot since the first missile.
i have videos with pictures of inoccent people who died in terror attacks of the Hamas.
but no one is intresed.
all people see is the palestinians side, cause the palestinians make sure to spread it everywhere.
just tell me and i'll send all the proofes for you.
but no one is trying to stop - let his opinions on the side and hear what iv'e got to say.
i'm aware to the inoccent people who's getting killed during the war-
but what israel can do? honestly.
the palestinians have to help us fighting the Hamas or we will all lose in this war. they are our enemy.
israel isn't the enemy of the palestinians , and the palestinians aren't our enemy.
it's only the Hamas- it doesn't matter what you say, or what i'll say.
if you disagree at least considor watching videos i'll send you to proof that the Hamas is our only enemy..

maybe i'm sixteen but i was born into a dificullt reality.
we are not like your generation. we have to lose our inoccent in a really young age.
i know how people can be cruel, and i know how people can lie-
and i just know how much mean people there's in this world and what they can do.
i can promise you, that i investigate, and still investigating this issue-
and still have the same opinion. cause the things people are saying here is 100% matching to what the news is telling me here in israel, and the reason they happened has been explained to me even before and not only by the media.

Originally Posted by Danielle..

the israeli media isn't blocking nothing.
i see al jaseera, ramttan - and all those channels.
sometimes, they put in our news parts of the arabs news!
i bet they don't do it in Gaza.

i'll never make a political opinion if i haven't herad the "two sides of the corner".
( by the way, i really loved the metaphore voice of truth in sea of lies )
i investigate both sides of this problem.
and iv'e got to say, that I still support israel.
they say that we kill chlidren - i can show you a proof that the Hamas is admiting their using inoccent people as human shield.
i can proof you that for sure, if you want i'll send it to you in private message.
i have videos of israel army throwing flyers with "leave you houses" before bombing.
i have facts of the amount of missiles who got lunched on Sderot since the first missile.
i have videos with pictures of inoccent people who died in terror attacks of the Hamas.
but no one is intresed.
all people see is the palestinians side, cause the palestinians make sure to spread it everywhere.
just tell me and i'll send all the proofes for you.
but no one is trying to stop - let his opinions on the side and hear what iv'e got to say.
i'm aware to the inoccent people who's getting killed during the war-
but what israel can do? honestly.
the palestinians have to help us fighting the Hamas or we will all lose in this war. they are our enemy.
israel isn't the enemy of the palestinians , and the palestinians aren't our enemy.
it's only the Hamas- it doesn't matter what you say, or what i'll say.
if you disagree at least considor watching videos i'll send you to proof that the Hamas is our only enemy..

maybe i'm sixteen but i was born into a dificullt reality.
we are not like your generation. we have to lose our inoccent in a really young age.
i know how people can be cruel, and i know how people can lie-
and i just know how much mean people there's in this world and what they can do.
i can promise you, that i investigate, and still investigating this issue-
and still have the same opinion. cause the things people are saying here is 100% matching to what the news is telling me here in israel, and the reason they happened has been explained to me even before and not only by the media.

Danielle you seem to think that by sending video's to people it will some how exonerate your politicians from their actions. I have watched more than enough atrocities on both sides, trust me, i don't need to see any more....our media ensures that we see it all.....

So the IDF drop flyers onto the people then bomb their schools? of course that makes all the difference doesn't it? you're claim that you are only targetting Hamas, but yet you are still killing innocent people, aren't you?

So please answer this question, if a terrorist went into the west bank and detonated a bomb in the main shopping street before returning to Tel aviv, would you happily accept the west bank dropping 2000 bombs on Tel aviv in the hope of killing the said terrorist....i doubt it very much.

I have said numerous times on here that both sides are to blame for their actions, yet it seems that you think that it is only Hamas that should be blamed for this conflict, Your army call a three hour cease fire to allow the UN to deal with injured casualties, then two days later, deliberately shoot at a UN convoy knowing that the UN will suspend aid work until they know they won't be shot at.

Yet what i can't understand is why you are denying that Israel has banned the international media from Palistine....our new agencies have all pointed this out....Why would your country ban the media unless they have something to hide....

Your final point about everyone taking Palistines side, no one wants to take sides, i have questioned both side as Hestia and proud arab will both testify too, yet you seem to think that everyone is out to blacken the name of Israel, we don't need to do that, if you watch our independant media and listen to the world news you will see your army is doing that for themselves by using banned weapons, by firing on schools, by shooting at clearly marked UN convoys.

Danielle you may be 16, but from what you have written you are far from Niave either, yet you seem to happily side step some of the important questions asked.

by avoiding the important questions it makes us wonder if you truly are brainwashed into thinking that your country is 100% right in this conflict..

In debating you buy credability with honesty especially on the tougher questions, so like i asked before.....

Do you honestly believe that your army's measures against palistine are appropriate? and do you believe that you can justify them to your religous beliefs?

I await your answer!

Originally Posted by The voice of reason

Danielle you seem to think that by sending video's to people it will some how exonerate your politicians from their actions. I have watched more than enough atrocities on both sides, trust me, i don't need to see any more....our media ensures that we see it all.....

So the IDF drop flyers onto the people then bomb their schools? of course that makes all the difference doesn't it? you're claim that you are only targetting Hamas, but yet you are still killing innocent people, aren't you?

So please answer this question, if a terrorist went into the west bank and detonated a bomb in the main shopping street before returning to Tel aviv, would you happily accept the west bank dropping 2000 bombs on Tel aviv in the hope of killing the said terrorist....i doubt it very much.

I have said numerous times on here that both sides are to blame for their actions, yet it seems that you think that it is only Hamas that should be blamed for this conflict, Your army call a three hour cease fire to allow the UN to deal with injured casualties, then two days later, deliberately shoot at a UN convoy knowing that the UN will suspend aid work until they know they won't be shot at.

Yet what i can't understand is why you are denying that Israel has banned the international media from Palistine....our new agencies have all pointed this out....Why would your country ban the media unless they have something to hide....

Your final point about everyone taking Palistines side, no one wants to take sides, i have questioned both side as Hestia and proud arab will both testify too, yet you seem to think that everyone is out to blacken the name of Israel, we don't need to do that, if you watch our independant media and listen to the world news you will see your army is doing that for themselves by using banned weapons, by firing on schools, by shooting at clearly marked UN convoys.

Danielle you may be 16, but from what you have written you are far from Niave either, yet you seem to happily side step some of the important questions asked.

by avoiding the important questions it makes us wonder if you truly are brainwashed into thinking that your country is 100% right in this conflict..

In debating you buy credability with honesty especially on the tougher questions, so like i asked before.....

Do you honestly believe that your army's measures against palistine are appropriate? and do you believe that you can justify them to your religous beliefs?

I await your answer!

I worte on another subject about the humaniterian help, and about the UN school, so i'll write it again.
in this UN school, IDF recognized for sure- Hamas militants and weapons.
the IDF did warned the people, but I guess that the Hamas didn't let them to get out, cause why should they? they are hiding and let their people die instead of them. they are selfish bitches! and it's really sad that their people has to die because their selfish leaders.
about the UN humanitarin help- I saw what happened. IDF said they are checking what exactly happened there. IDF does mistakes too, and they are not always on control - few days ago they accidenly killed 4 IDF soldiers too.
i guess it's hard for me to answer sometimes bacuse 1.my english like you see isn't that good
2. i don't know alot of political words so half than what your'e writing to me, i don't even understand ( as example, just today i learn what's IDF is )
3. sometimes i don't know, and i need time to find out. like we were saying- i'm only sixteen.

about what you said with Tel-Aviv:
of course I will not happy about it! but if this is what destroy the Hamas - yes. i'm willing to take the chance.
and you can't even ask this question- cause I know that our government will finally protect us, they will warn me to run away, not like the Hamas who's making inoccent people to die cause they are their human shields!
about your questions i didn't understand the second but i'll write you the first one:
I'm aware to the fact that it might be not propartite.
but tell me, honestly? what else can we do?
the Hamas doesn't want us here. they don't even acknowledge of the existense of Israel.
even when we did nothing - they lunched rockets on us, and they suicide bombing us.. and runover us.. etc.
i wait for your answer about it

p.s: if israel banned the media. how come i can see Rammatan and Al Jaseera?
and even more - how is it possible I even see parts of Rammatan news and Al Jaseera in the israeli news?
i don't say things that has no base. when I promise something I don't promise without knowing.

First off, thank you for the extremely long reply.
Seriously, I have a very short attention spam, I lose concentration after the tenth line, you made me read this like a hundred times. Thank you, again.

Originally Posted by The voice of reason

That being said, I guess the western world doesn't need Al Jazeera giving us their islam spin on everything, just like we don't need Israeli spun accounts either.

Which is why I quoted the UN's statements that were published on BBC. Another thing, Al Jazeera doesn't give their Islam spin on everything because A) Elias Karram, the Jazeera reporter on the Gaza-Israeli borders isn't Muslim. B) The stuff they air have nothing to do with whether Israel has the right to Palestine or not, it interviews Israeli officials as well as Arab or Palestinian ones. And anyway, I'm not trying to defend Al Jazeera since it is in most cases in opposition to Jordan, Al Arabiyya on the other hand I would defend. I watched the 6 o'clock news report on BBC world (6 o'clock our time) they only mentioned that the Un's ceasefire was "dismissed" by both sides, I'll explain later on my stance regarding Hamas but for now I'll just comment on this piece of news. Although I find BBC's approach to the whole conflict rather objective unlike CNN, this is inaccurate. I watched the voting procedure, afterwards, a Hamas official in Beirut was called to comment on the ceasefire, he did not dismiss the ceasefire like BBC or Al Jazeera (The English version) both suggest, he clearly said in the phonecall that Hamas believes they weren't included in the UN's call and hence will not act upon it UNLESS it is actually applied and the Iraeli party stops its bombardment and invasion of Gaza, he also criticized the UN's call because "it is not in the best interest of the Palestinian people" since it says nothing about the ending of the blockade or the invasion.

Like i've said before, and i don't really care whether you agree with me or not on this one, this is not a war of two nations, this is a war of hatred based on religeon.
The middle east is immersed in a war because of two differing religeous views. one side claims that the infidel stole land that was rightfully theirs, the other claims that God gave them the land, sadly neither side can be objective enough to see that Both sides have historical claims to Israel and neither has any total claim to the land.

It's not an issue of whether I agree with you or not, it's more an issue of flawed arguments stated by you, first off, Jews are not infidels, infidel or Kafer is not an insult anyway, it just refers to someone who does not believe in God, but again, Jews aren't considered infidels, neither are Christians or other believers.
This is what the Quran has to say about this:
62] Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Allah is what God translates to in Arabic and is a term used in Arabic Bibles. So it is not driven by religion. I do not wish to go through the same discussion of who was there first because as I said before Indians are the original inhabitants of America but you don't see them going around bombing Americans and demanding their land back, Jews might have been there like a millennia ago but that doesn't give them the right to kill people and kick them out of their homes because they decided they wanted their promised land back, that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Arab or Muslim, it has to do with common sense!

But then again, why did Hamas feel the need to fire a rocket on an old folks home, wouldn't you say that Hamas's actions are equally as bad?

I don't know why people suppose that I'm pro Hamas just because I'm against Israel's foreign policies, just for the record, I'm not pro Hamas, I'm not pro Fateh either, but this war was inflicted on Palestinians and it is only normal that they would want to defend themselves by forming PLOs, organized groups of people who take it upon them to fight for their land, not the land God promised them, the land they were born in, their houses. Bad? Yes, equally as bad? Not at all, because they're being bombed and killed and while the Gaza toll rises to 800 and around 3500 wounded, the rockets Hamas fires caused four injuries.

The truth of the matter is nether side will be happy until they have achieved their hate fuelled objective, my limited understanding of islamic teaching tells me that Islam is a peaceful religeon, so where in the Koran does it say that Muslims should burn Israeli flags and shout death to Israel?

Who said that was an Islamic practice or an Islamic-driven practice?! Muslims burn flags, Israelis burn kids, if it takes a burning flag to calm them down so be it.

if we were all to follow our religeous teaching, we would all be looking for a peaceful way to settle this conflict, but like always, when hatred is involved, human beings will happily twist the truth to make it achieve the current objective.

I can take many passages in the bible and twist them out of context to make them fit any agenda i have, Israel has taken the old testement and warped it's value's to suit their own military ends, whilst teaching their kids, a warped sense of religeon.

Agreed.

where does it all end hestia? how much blood has to be spilled before someone steps back and finally uses common sense and realises that life lost is one life too many over what? a few miles of land? the Israeli's have no intention of going anywhere, neither do the Palistinians, so common sense should tell us that the only way to resolve this is to sit down and mark out clear boundaries that everyone can live with.

That is not for me to decide upon, I wouldn't agree on an inch of my land being taken away by someone who isn't Jordanian.

But then the radicals on both sides don't want this, for them there has to be a winner and their has to be a loser....their has to be hatred to make their lives worthwhile.

I can speak for Palestinians when I say that they don't want to be branded as winnders, they just want their homes, their land, the land their grandparents and parents harvested, the homes they put all their life savings in, they want their lives back, they want to be able to walk in their country without being humiliated in Israeli check points, without having Israeli bulldozers destroy their homes!

Do you honestly think that by killing innocent people in gods name, god will thank you at a later date? or will he sit in judgement of your motives for taking the actions that you took?

Of course not! In Islam, even when in a state of war, Muslims are not allowed to kill a woman, a child, an elderly or any other person who doesn't take part in the fighting, ie civilians, they're not allowed to destroy a house or cut down a tree, that is HARAM in Islam. Defending yourself on the other hand is a must, not in Islam only, but according to every constitution or any form of legislation.

We will not be judged on the actions of others, we will be judged on our own actions, and our reasons for taking those actions, I don't know of any religeon that advocates Hatred as a reason for anything.

Agreed.

Source: BBC News.


Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive.
The shelling at Zeitoun, a south-east suburb of Gaza City, on 5 January killed some 30 people, the report said.
Israel says it has looked into the allegations and they are unfounded.
Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said no Israeli soldiers had been in the area on the day the incident was supposed to have happened.
The OCHA report said: "According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors.
"Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30."
The UN said those who survived and were able walked 2km to the main north-south road to be transported to hospital in civilian vehicles. "Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said.


-----
Your comments? Very interested in hearing what those who are pro-Israel have to say about this.

Originally Posted by Hestia

Source: BBC News.


Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.
The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) called it "one of the gravest incidents" since the beginning of the offensive.
The shelling at Zeitoun, a south-east suburb of Gaza City, on 5 January killed some 30 people, the report said.
Israel says it has looked into the allegations and they are unfounded.
Israeli foreign ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said no Israeli soldiers had been in the area on the day the incident was supposed to have happened.
The OCHA report said: "According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors.
"Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30."
The UN said those who survived and were able walked 2km to the main north-south road to be transported to hospital in civilian vehicles. "Three children, the youngest of whom was five months old, died upon arrival at the hospital," the report said.


-----
Your comments? Very interested in hearing what those who are pro-Israel have to say about this.

No doubt the cowards (Hamas) were firing from the house where the civilians were.

Originally Posted by Hestia

Your comments? .

im not surprised neither to the occupation forces barbarism that im used to by now, nor to the comments of some of those who are pro the occupation forces who always either blame someone else for their massacares or say that it was done by mistake! this is a sad situation!

Originally Posted by Trevortt

No doubt the cowards (Hamas) were firing from the house where the civilians were.

How did you reach that conclusion? Neither the UN nor Israel claimed that there were any members of Hamas there, Israeli soldiers asked 110 civilians half of which were kids to stay at that house and never get out, then they bombed them repeatedly. It is one thing to support Israel as a country that kills Arabs and Muslims and another thing to justify this barbaric act, by doing this Trvortt, you just proved that your siding with Israel has more to do with your hatred towards those who are against it rather than your belief that what they're doing could be justified.

Originally Posted by proudArab

im not surprised neither to the occupation forces barbarism that im used to by now, nor to the comments of some of those who are pro the occupation forces who always either blame someone else for their massacares or say that it was done by mistake! this is a sad situation!

Of course. What is remarkable though is the number of replies a pro-Israel thread gets and the number of replies threads like this one get. It is sad, very sad.

Originally Posted by proudArab

im not surprised neither to the occupation forces barbarism that im used to by now, nor to the comments of some of those who are pro the occupation forces who always either blame someone else for their massacares or say that it was done by mistake! this is a sad situation!

What's even sadder is the number of people who 'support' either one side or the other without even knowing some of the most fundamental facts about the history of the conflict and what's lead up to the current situation.

Without mentioning any names, whilst I know it's difficult for people who're in the midst of a conflict to sometimes see that there are two sides because of peer, social and media pressure, to simply rant away about how everything is 'the other side's fault' does little but further polarise views on both sides.

A little objectivity would show there are very rarely any clear-cut instances where 'X' is right and where 'Y' is wrong in the wider conflict, although in specific instances like this shelling, it would appear that Israel is most definitely in the wrong.

Originally Posted by Midas

What's even sadder is the number of people who 'support' either one side or the other without even knowing some of the most fundamental facts about the history of the conflict and what's lead up to the current situation.

Without mentioning any names, whilst I know it's difficult for people who're in the midst of a conflict to sometimes see that there are two sides because of peer, social and media pressure, to simply rant away about how everything is 'the other side's fault' does little but further polarise views on both sides.

A little objectivity would show there are very rarely any clear-cut instances where 'X' is right and where 'Y' is wrong in the wider conflict, although in specific instances like this shelling, it would appear that Israel is most definitely in the wrong.

for the 100 time im not with hamas i oppose hamas, but again im not going to discuss that because im busy counting hundreds of palestinians being murdered by the occupation forces who are invading our lands who murdered 100s of people before and is doing that with the help of certain governments, it seems that to people in the west this situation is new i donno im not sure actually, but this is not something new here we are used to this barbarism and yet we will never forget this issue because as it's clear the occupation forces are trying to get rid of the palestinians, today it's them tomorrow its lebanon after that syria etc etc and people like you after another 60 will say mmm why are you seeing one side hamas is a terrorist while my grandchildren will reply the same thing that im saying today the same thing that my grandparents used to say that this is a cause that we will never forget not even in a 1000 year.

A little objectivity would show there are very rarely any clear-cut instances where 'X' is right and where 'Y' is wrong in the wider conflict,

That is of course theoretically speaking. A conflict doesn't just happen, people cause it to happen and those who cause a conflict are the ones to blame, it's not an issue of whose claim is right and whose isn't, it's an issue of why the conflict happened and how. Self defence is every person's right and earthly legislations as well as godsent books guarantee that right. What you just stated above sounds reasonable but isn't applicable in real life situations, according to your argument neither Hitler nor the Jews were completely wrong or right, neither Al Qaeda nor Bush's administration was right or wrong, somebody should correct Bush's statement in which he admitted that invading Iraq was a mistake and tell him that it is not his fault nor is it the Iraqi people's fault. I am willing to debate my faith and every belief I have but the fact that Palestine is for the Palestinian is something I would never negotiate. Jews were scattered around the world and decided they wanted their "promised land" and Palestinian's had to pay the price of that, how can anyone ever claim that turning a nation into refugees living in tents, killing people, destroying homes, slaughtering kids and women is not fully "wrong", it is not an issue of land for the Palestinians, it is their right, you can't just ask them to be the bigger person and let go of their homes, the only home they've ever known because Israelis want Palestine and they're not willing to let them be and there's nothing to do about it because they're stubborn.

Here's Balfour's declaration of 1917:

Foreign Office,
November 2nd, 1917.

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour


The establishment in Palestine, Palestinians shouldn't be held responsible for "his majesty's" sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations. That is what I know for a fact. I'm a peaceful person, the sight of blood causes me to throw up I also am very afraid of the dark, but if God forbid anyone dared to claim an inch of Jordan I would die for the sake of my home, I wouldn't do it for religion or for any other reason but I would do it for my country, it is an issue of honor, of loyalty, of identity and dignity and Palestinians aren't willing to give any of those up no matter what valid theories people come up with.

Originally Posted by Danielle..

I worte on another subject about the humaniterian help, and about the UN school, so i'll write it again.
in this UN school, IDF recognized for sure- Hamas militants and weapons.
the IDF did warned the people, but I guess that the Hamas didn't let them to get out, cause why should they? they are hiding and let their people die instead of them. they are selfish bitches! and it's really sad that their people has to die because their selfish leaders.
about the UN humanitarin help- I saw what happened. IDF said they are checking what exactly happened there. IDF does mistakes too, and they are not always on control - few days ago they accidenly killed 4 IDF soldiers too.
i guess it's hard for me to answer sometimes bacuse 1.my english like you see isn't that good
2. i don't know alot of political words so half than what your'e writing to me, i don't even understand ( as example, just today i learn what's IDF is )
3. sometimes i don't know, and i need time to find out. like we were saying- i'm only sixteen.

about what you said with Tel-Aviv:
of course I will not happy about it! but if this is what destroy the Hamas - yes. i'm willing to take the chance.
and you can't even ask this question- cause I know that our government will finally protect us, they will warn me to run away, not like the Hamas who's making inoccent people to die cause they are their human shields!
about your questions i didn't understand the second but i'll write you the first one:
I'm aware to the fact that it might be not propartite.
but tell me, honestly? what else can we do?
the Hamas doesn't want us here. they don't even acknowledge of the existense of Israel.
even when we did nothing - they lunched rockets on us, and they suicide bombing us.. and runover us.. etc.
i wait for your answer about it

p.s: if israel banned the media. how come i can see Rammatan and Al Jaseera?
and even more - how is it possible I even see parts of Rammatan news and Al Jaseera in the israeli news?
i don't say things that has no base. when I promise something I don't promise without knowing.

oh and Gaza's missiles didn't "burn" kids? or women?? or any inoccent person?
and running over terror attack isn't?
and what about suicide bombing???
i don't think that they just "burning" flags.

Wow this forum really is a little microcosm as to the whole conflict isn't it? If no-one can get beyond "he started it" then what hope for peace? As my Mum used to say to us "I don't care who started it I'm ending it!"
No seriously you've got to get beyond this "it's our land; no it's ours" tug of war and start from the reality that the current situation actually benefits neither side.

I have 'merged' this thread with Israel 'shelled civilian shelter' and Israel to execute Palestinian protesters?

Originally Posted by Tete123

I have 'merged' this thread with Israel 'shelled civilian shelter' and Israel to execute Palestinian protesters?

Thank you for your efforts.

The use of Palestinian Children

The stories which the Palestinians feed western journalists make much of supposed harm done to children by the IDF. This strikes an emotional chord with western families and always produces reactions against Israel. However, the Palestinians are guilty of cynically exploiting children and young people by inciting them to confront the IDF security forces and having cameramen on hand to record whatever harm comes to them. Also we are fed with harrowing images of distraught mothers of dead or wounded children. See Indoctrinationto see how the Palestinian children are exploited and sacrificed to further the aims of Arafat and the Palestine Authority.
Watch the video, "The Anatomy of Child Self-Sacrifice", produced by Jerusalem Vistas to understand how the process works. Get a copy to show to your church or fellowship or school/college.
One of many cases was the 11 year old lad from Nablus who was promised a large sum to carry a backpack through an IDF roadblock in March 2004. When a military policeman picked up the backpack he discovered it was a 10Kg bomb stuffed with bolts. When the boy's dispatchers saw that he was being detained they dialled the mobile 'phone which was supposed to detonate the bomb, but it failed to explode. Had the bomb properly detonated, the lad would have become a martyr. Palestinian children are frequently used to test Israeli security systems. If they are mistaken for terrorist infiltrators and shot in error, they become martyrs and propaganda tools for use against Israel.

http://www.talkbritain.co.uk/forum/r...propaganda.htm

Originally Posted by Lathyrus

The use of Palestinian Children

The stories which the Palestinians feed western journalists make much of supposed harm done to children by the IDF. This strikes an emotional chord with western families and always produces reactions against Israel. However, the Palestinians are guilty of cynically exploiting children and young people by inciting them to confront the IDF security forces and having cameramen on hand to record whatever harm comes to them. Also we are fed with harrowing images of distraught mothers of dead or wounded children. See Indoctrination to see how the Palestinian children are exploited and sacrificed to further the aims of Arafat and the Palestine Authority.

Pretty sure Arafat died in 2004 (and his death put the final nail in the coffin of the PLO) and took possibly the last hope for a two state solution with him.
That link goes to prove that both sides have become masters of propaganda. A question that is bothering me: does the fact that Hammas is using civilians and children as human sheilds make it alright for Israel to ignore those shields? In other words does it ultimately matter who is culpable - same number of children die either way. If a child is taken as a hostage do you see their death as an acceptable consequence of ending the hostage situation?