Since you all hate Gordon

[Kiwi 1691]

Since you all hate Gordon, can you think of a Labour politician who could actually lead the party with a chance of winning the election?

Edit, I just realised I spelt his name wrong in the title.

[Opinionated]

Since you all hate Gordon, can you think of a Labour politician who could actually lead the party with a chance of winning the election?

I don't hate Gordon!!! I feel very sorry for him, he's become the definitive example of why people with principles shouldn't enter politics, power corrupts indeed!
As to who could lead the party to victory (although I really do think Mandelson sold his soul to Satan so maybe....), the short answer is "no-one", with Brown in charge there's a very slim chance they'll hold on to power; a split this close to election would probably spell the end of the party altogether.
Personally I would consider voting for them again if Hillary Benn was given the job, then again from a charisma pov, he would have something of the Clegg factor!

[Ian The Poet]

Whom can we trust?

[DougieG]

Whom can we trust?

Pretty much noone. The Tories are slimy, Labour are useless, the Lib Dems are a non-entity, the BNP are racists, UKIP are morons, the Greens are weak and unfeasible.

MRLP?

[uncon]

It becomes very difficult to hate Gordon Brown. He seems to lurch from crisis to crisis with no opportunity to actually DO anything. In fact this do nothing approach has resulted in a stultified party that is faced with different directions to go in on a daily basis. The civil service has turned against them and at that point nothing can get done.

[octopus]

Since you all hate Gordon, can you think of a Labour politician who could actually lead the party with a chance of winning the election?

Edit, I just realised I spelt his name wrong in the title.

I think your hoping for a miracle!

[JacquesMagique]

I'm sure I read somewhere a poll suggesting they would actually do better in the next election if they had Blair back..

[Barry]

I think they would do well if they had Joanna Lumley as leader.
She could not do any worse than those toerags.

[uncon]

She would be a fool

[Streetwalker]

Its not Brown that is hated its the Whole Labour movement. A party that has an obsession with equality,"A fair society". All they are doing is dragging everyone down to the lowest level.
Except themeselves of course who they promote to Godlike status with their social engineering,we know best mentality

[uncon]

Its not Brown that is hated its the Whole Labour movement. A party that has an obsession with equality,"A fair society". All they are doing is dragging everyone down to the lowest level.
Except themeselves of course who they promote to Godlike status with their social engineering,we know best mentality

Given the fact that the social divide is bigger now I would say that 'dragging everyone down' was tosh. To be honest, a different, more dynamic leader a year ago would possibly have changed everything. Watching bagpuss be constantly saved by Mandy and a party that can't even cause a change in it's own leadership, let alone one in a country that is suffering in recession and one who was too scared to say the word 'cut' sealed it.

There has always been a pattern and it will follow the pattern. tory government give us rotten times and eventually build up the coffers, so Labour governments have money to play with to create sure start etc...then they get into debt with inquiries and quangos and here we go again it is painful Tory to build the money up.

There will never be an end to boom and bust. It is a natural result of the economic way when you combine it with the political. It really doesn't matter if your politicians are grange hill or eton...the civil service is there to get them straight. When the CS is ignored then we are in trouble, and when the Civil service produce a report like the last....you are ****ed

[UncleVanya]

We all really love our Dear Leader, Gordo McClown. A truly amazing fellow whose grip on basic Economic Theory truly is amazing. Those alleged temper tantrums of his. The only know other fellow to have stood face-to-face, 'manu a manu' for a bleating, howling and whining match (so it is alleged) was Teflon B'Lair.....

Paw Broone has many, many, many Tractor Factories and Peasants & Workers Communes to visit afore he calls the date for a Gen Election. Like Fatther Teds Housekeeper, Mrs Doyle. Pa Broone is going to go 'On, and On, and On' until the men in White Coats have to gurney him out of Number Ten to the Secret Funny Farm in deepest.... ssshhhh! That's a State Secret, and only Lord Peter knows that one....

[Expounder]

We all really love our Dear Leader, Gordo McClown. A truly amazing fellow whose grip on basic Economic Theory truly is amazing. Those alleged temper tantrums of his. The only know other fellow to have stood face-to-face, 'manu a manu' for a bleating, howling and whining match (so it is alleged) was Teflon B'Lair.....

Paw Broone has many, many, many Tractor Factories and Peasants & Workers Communes to visit afore he calls the date for a Gen Election. Like Fatther Teds Housekeeper, Mrs Doyle. Pa Broone is going to go 'On, and On, and On' until the men in White Coats have to gurney him out of Number Ten to the Secret Funny Farm in deepest.... ssshhhh! That's a State Secret, and only Lord Peter knows that one....

Mock as you will, but most of you haven't a clue as to how near total world financial melt down was in early October 2008. Most leaders have credited Brown with the person who kept his head in the crisis making the correct call which was followed by the leaders of the rest of world which saved the planet from disaster. Brown may have plenty of personality flaws [haven't we all?] but he didn't sit on his hands as the crisis unfolded which proved his credentials in a major crisis.

Go back to any leaders including Churchill, biographers will give them a hard time for their attitude problems towards aides and staff. Concentrate on policies or the lack of them and not on personalities.

Read the link on how the financial crisis unfolded and was handled:


The weekend Gordon Brown saved the banks from the abyss | Politics | The Observer

[Janus]

Since I do not hate Gordon or the Labour Party any more than any other leader or party, I cannot morally stay on a forum that requires me to say who I'd like to replace him, or why, so before I go I'll give my reason:
1stly, I have equal respect for both Gordon Brown and Dave Cameron but I have already decided where my vote is going in the upcoming April (if Darling has his way), May (if Brown has his way) or June (if Cameron has his way) Gen Election.
I think that Gordon Brown is shouldering the excess negative weight of public opinion for all the wrong reasons. Due to Dave Cameron's (or his party's; it is attributed to DC) outspoken criticism of Gordon's allegated bullying Conservative have tried to create a scandal that has backfired on them, as the %gap in the public opinion polls has closed to 2% difference since that hastily unwise maneouvre. Due to Mr Brown's steady determination to do right in the eyes of his faithful policywise he has clawed back from a threatening possibility of being left behind in the popularity stakes. Now, I think that Gordon Brown started with impeccably noble intentions when he took over from Mr Blair, but being in power at the time of the worst part of the recession meant that he alone was going to be criticised for our failed immediate recovery. It doesn't matter if Cameron was in power, he would have received all the negativity for our failure had he been responsible for trying to raise the country's morale.
I don't believe Gordon Brown went out there with anything but optimism that we would eventually get ourselves out of the borrowing debt. He did borrow because he cared about our country now in the immediate as well as some far off land of promise in the future, but I think he did this partly because if he had not borrowed early as in the boom-and-bust strategy he first attempted (with possible uncanny foresight), we would without the support of the extra income we had borrowed have in all possibility gone under, broke. It is the borrowing that conversely kept Britain afloat in the hard times to then come and helped withstand the impact of the areas hit worst in the financial drought. Now we are faced with the inevitable and necessary tax rises in the next budget to HELP pay back our debts, which both Cameron and Alistair Darling acknowledge are a sobering reality to come, but we let's face it have survived incredibly well with a former chancellor like Gordon Brown on the team and could not have done it better without him. Now the worst of our worries are over we are just staying out of yet even more debt while clawing ourselves back to a slow but certain recovery, let's accept the significant chances of a tax increase with a view to one day resurrecting the British economy.
The downside is that the press were forced to bring Labour to account for the lack of restraint/regulation to govern an out-of-control banking and credit-loan system and for the outlandish pay rises to people such as Darling for his luxury mansion, which if hidden from the public Cameron would definitely have brought up by now so close to the election, so the accountability thing is a good deal for them in future as it damages the party reputation to be seen to be squandering taxpayers' money on such things, for which in all honesty there is no excuse for. Perhaps Gordon thought his cabinet deserved it or needed to boost their morale for the long haul we then faced.
I don't think too much negative criticism should be levelled at any leader who just wants the best for Britain. It is not honesty or competency alone that should be brought into judgement but also the Prime Minister's AND the public's ability to face the common problems and needs we all share here in Britain with the skill and determination and optimism that are the so winning key elements of parties such as The Labour Party.

[Don]

Since I do not hate Gordon or the Labour Party any more than any other leader or party, I cannot morally stay on a forum that requires me to say who I'd like to replace him, or why, so before I go I'll give my reason...

If you're still around to read this, I have only one question. Who said you are 'required' to state your preference?

[Major Sinic]

[QUOTE]

Since I do not hate Gordon or the Labour Party any more than any other leader or party, I cannot morally stay on a forum that requires me to say who I'd like to replace him, or why, so before I go I'll give my reason:

What a funny fellow! why join a forum to debate with people who hold different views to you, and then leave when you disagree with them? A shame, because your post was at least rational, apart from your opening statement.

Deeply offensive and gratuitous insults are one thing, but legitimate disagreement is the reason most us us are here.

[Opinionated]

Since I do not hate Gordon or the Labour Party any more than any other leader or party, I cannot morally stay on a forum that requires me to say who I'd like to replace him.

Where is that requirement, did I miss a meeting? The question Kiwi asked was actually, who we thought could win the election as Labour leader not necessarily who we'd wish to see. Sadly I can't think of anyone at all.

[Jim Franklin]

In all honesty I do not hate Gordon Brown, I don't hate anyone, that emotion is too destructive of those who feel it to wield it on a lowly politician.

I think Gordon thinks he is doing the right thing, sadly he is not. He is credited with the solution to the banking Crisis, this is not right, the solution they used was actually put forward by the Chairman of Lloyd's and Barclay's, the two high st banks untouched by the toxic debt fiasco. They suggested it in a meeting when Gordon asked Sir Peter Middleton (Barclays) to save the situation by buying RBS-Halifax, he refused due to the impact this would have, Eric Daniels (Lloyds Banking Group) agreed to present it to the board with the reasons why etc etc, they agreed to bale the Government out and bought it...then were stabbed in the back due to the problems it caused Lloyd's. I am no fan of Lloyd's, had a very serious issue with them due to bank fraud that lasted 4 years and nearly ruined my life, but they saved the Banking system, not Gordon.

His foresight was to accept the advise given and then act on it, despite the objections of Dracula Darling. For this Gordon should get credit. Many PM's would have gone with their Chancellor, especially as he was a former one himself, but he recognised they had more knowledge of this and went with their ideas. Fair Play I say.

Having said that, I do hold labour personally accountable for the following.

• Failed Education System
• Defence Cuts that claimed lives
• A semi-Police State
• Ridiculous levels of Tax Legislation
• Cuts in Standards of Living
• Failure to Regulate Banks, that led to the Banking Crisis
• Cuts in Defense spending that hurt operational abilities.
• Cuts to the Coast Guard
• Centralisation of Emergency Call Centres, costing lives.
• Targets for everything except themselves
• Levels of corruption not seen in a generation
• Failure to Help Rover Car Group and Secure Jobs in the UK
• Failure to Cut spending in the civil service
• Failure to Manage the NHS effectively
• The creation of so many QUANGO's it costs BILLIONS each year to run them.
• The list goes on and on.

I am sorry, but enough is enough of this shower, they had their turn, the trust the country put in them back in 1997 was thrown squarely back in our faces and they laughed as they did it. They are, even by Politicians Standards, shameless, dishonest and a waste of space. Labour has some very good MP's, but because they are not "in the club" they get overlooked and this is male genitals.

Gordon Brown and the whole current crop in the Cabinet should be barred from ever holding a public office job again.

Shame on all for failing a whole generation of children, that is not only reprehensible, it is forever unforgivable.

[octopus]

Gordon Brown will go down in history as the most depised leader ever in my opnion. He has:-
Destroyed our culture. Brainwashed our youngsters.
Everybody who does not agree on political correctness is a bigot.
Made it acceptable to steal, to lie, to make this part of normal behavoir.
He tells us where we can smoke, while him and his cronies are smoking in the HOUSE OF COMMONS, where it is STILL allowed. Even how to put our rubbish out - and even proposing to limit our TV viewing according to a leaked report in THE MAIL.
Gives away millions and millions of pounds overseas - money which we need to run our essential services.
Our streets are run by feral yobs, with what Police are on the streets giving priority to motoring offences that bring him in revenue.
Our economy, in ruins, billions, billions and billions in dept - will not be paid back in our lifetime.
A new bin tax is coming into force.
Two futile wars, nothing to do with this country, hundreds dead.
Islamic fanatics allowed to roam at will - even working in the Home Office, while the Gurhkas were almost kicked out, but for the efforts of Joanna Lumley.
The expenese scandal, true other parties were involved, but they are not in office. We tax payers paid for everything, from Storm troopers in suspenders to duck houses.
When you go into a shop to buy a bottle of wine you are given the third degree. I was IDed myself, and I WAS 47 AT THE TIME! All because Labour has failed on crime.
Our children have their packed lunches checked - anything not suitable taken off them. The BNP couldn"t do any better realy, could they?
No discipline in our schools - children being murdered in some cases.
Unexplained deaths in our hospitals, with patients being kept in appalling conditions. My own mother was seen by three doctors - AND THEY FAILED TO DETECT A HEART ATTACK! The reason no cash as it is going abroad to help our burdens in the third world. The iriony of this case is that between the two of us we have contributed for about a century in providing the goverments with tax revenue, which proves when you get old, tough! You"ve had your day.

[octopus]

Its not Brown that is hated its the Whole Labour movement. A party that has an obsession with equality,"A fair society". All they are doing is dragging everyone down to the lowest level.
Except themeselves of course who they promote to Godlike status with their social engineering,we know best mentality

One thing you need to remeber with New Labour: Whether it be smoking or sending their children to private school: THEY DON"T MEAN THEM! DON"T DO AS I DO - DO AS I SAY!

[octopus]

I'm sure I read somewhere a poll suggesting they would actually do better in the next election if they had Blair back..

They"re are both liars; blair has the charm, Brown has the charm of a rattlesnake.

[UncleVanya]

Dear Great Leader, Mr Brown is his own worst enemy. He, along with his Cabinet colleagues have done what all 'Socialist Orientated' governments have done is.... "They run out of other peoples' money!'.

Brown is far nearer to Old Labour now, than Blair ever was. Labour in Government since 1997, sort of stuck to the Torys economic policies of the Major administration for the first 2 years in office. After this, it all degenerated into traditional Labour 'Tax and Spend' policy. (all down hill after this). Whatever people may think of Brown, it seems to be forgotton by his supporters that he was the Chancellor for 10 years. He and his 'A Team', were responsible for drawing up, and implementing the economic polices of New Labour.

Why is it that the mistakes made by Brown as Chancellor, etc are just not mentioned.

Any incoming Conservative administration will have to do what they did after the Labour defeat of the late 1970s. They will have to try and repair the Financial Mess left by the outgoing Labour administration (History often repeats itself....)

Labour for the 2010 Election campaign seem to want people to judge them on how they are now... NOT on their track record of the past - WHY?

Where I come from, this is called 'Guilding the Lily'.... 'Telling Tall Tales of Dering Do'..... or in simple English... "Bullsh*ting"...!!

[Janus]

Since you all hate Gordon, can you think of a Labour politician who could actually lead the party with a chance of winning the election?

I was assuming to read behind the lines here that his meaning was about replacing Gordon with another politician BEFORE thIS election, and I could not think of one, except maybe Miliband. But I wanted to concentrate on our present leader's finer points to raise the morale somewhat of those who would not be voting Conservative in the next election. That is how I understood Midas' question.
Anyway, I think the worst leader in history was mid-80s "The Magdalene" Thatcher. It was a terrible Depression and Drought for the working-classes and breadliners under her. I think she was to blame for the country's disrepair as so many workers were then laid off because of unfair favouritist "crapitalism". Gordon Brown, for all his faults, is at the very least attempting to rectify the depression, accomodate us all in his economic fairness strategies, do more in international relations like Blair before him where Britain's multi-economy relations are concerned. It's just sad he didn't prevent those wicked, greed-ridden loan sharks from coming up out of the waters to snap the wallets out of the hands of wanton, greedy, looseholding Big spenders who were probably inundated with TV madvertising at the time.

[Major Sinic]

I was assuming to read behind the lines here that his meaning was about replacing Gordon with another politician BEFORE thIS election, and I could not think of one, except maybe Miliband. But I wanted to concentrate on our present leader's finer points to raise the morale somewhat of those who would not be voting Conservative in the next election. That is how I understood Midas' question.
Anyway, I think the worst leader in history was mid-80s "The Magdalene" Thatcher. It was a terrible Depression and Drought for the working-classes and breadliners under her. I think she was to blame for the country's disrepair as so many workers were then laid off because of unfair favouritist "crapitalism". Gordon Brown, for all his faults, is at the very least attempting to rectify the depression, accomodate us all in his economic fairness strategies, do more in international relations like Blair before him where Britain's multi-economy relations are concerned. It's just sad he didn't prevent those wicked, greed-ridden loan sharks from coming up out of the waters to snap the wallets out of the hands of wanton, greedy, looseholding Big spenders who were probably inundated with TV madvertising at the time.

I don't think any leader since the WWII has been the cause of such extremes of approval and disapproval as St. Maggie. Many who have strong views, one way or the other, were neither born or were babes in arms during her tenure. At least I was in my twenties when Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister and I remember her time in government well first hand.

The Conservative Government were faced in those days with considerable social unrest including workplace intimidation, violence, secondary picketing, wildcat strikes. Much of this was politically motivated by strong left wing trade unions furious that a right wing, and the Tories were right wing at that time, government had been elected by the electorate with a massive majority.

No union was more left wing and militant than the National Union of Mineworkers, and led by the infamous Arthur Scargill, they set out to challenge and destroy a democratically elected government. Britain at times was close to civil war. Margaret took the NUM on, and broke the undemocratic power of the unions.

For this and many other reasons I consider her the greatest peacetime primeminister we have had since the Second World War. Life and politics have moved on, and there would be no place for Mrs T. on a Tory front bench today, but equally neither would there be a place in any responsible trade union for Arthur Scargill.

There will be others who either agree or disagree with my opinion passionately, because she had the ability to engender passion, even in those yet to be born!

[Janus]

Yes, I have watched the Long Walk to Finchley-The Margaret Thatcher story on TV, and yes, I have an admiration for the Lady and the determination with which she against all the odds facing a woman of her calibre at the time, and her steely grip on the possibility of power at the top and all that-and I do recognise her as a fellow human being-but my love for her stops there right at the crossing before the locomotive of Toryism breezes past in its headlong rush to make a cool million. For its adherents and proponents of class division, spendwells and exclusivists, while the rest of us were shut out, ostracised from its vainglorious dream of an ignorant aristocratic utopia. She if you remember cut back on things as needless as children's school milk and welfare benefits, heralded the enslavement occupational-therapy-mentality programme known as the YTS, and caused redundancies for lower classes to become as common as in her day capitalist enterprises for the fortunate and elite who were born into class privilege in the first place, while the miners, dockers and lowerpaid workers were trying to maintain their grip on some form of income The Magdalene was gleefully prising their fingers from the hope under her tyranny of any survival for those who just wanted a reasonably-paid job to call their own. Thankfully, it is now with Cameron and his crew of CONservative Cronies and their eye on the top notch this election that they are coming to realise themselves that in the Labourites their is actually some real competition; but while Cameron and co. fan themselves in their pristine imagery of a brighter better Britain, Labour have actually got their noses to the grindstone with a view to the hard work ahead of how best to serve in fairness and equality the people of Britain, should they win.
Although I appreciate your view of politics, Major, and you are entitled to your belief-system as I am to mine, I still think the clarity of the vision on the left is better than that of the right, because the disasters which have hit Britain economically in recent years would have been accompanied with even more scapegoatism and blame towards the Tories had they been in power. It is a matter of hard times and how to bear them that has to be borne responsibly upon the shoulders of either Brown or Cameron this year and next. Time will tell. All I can say here is, May the Best Party Win. With respect, Major!

[Major Sinic]

Thankfully, it is now with Cameron and his crew of CONservative Cronies and their eye on the top notch this election that they are coming to realise themselves that in the Labourites their is actually some real competition; but while Cameron and co. fan themselves in their pristine imagery of a brighter better Britain, Labour have actually got their noses to the grindstone with a view to the hard work ahead of how best to serve in fairness and equality the people of Britain, should they win.
Although I appreciate your view of politics, Major, and you are entitled to your belief-system as I am to mine, I still think the clarity of the vision on the left is better than that of the right, because the disasters which have hit Britain economically in recent years would have been accompanied with even more scapegoatism and blame towards the Tories had they been in power. It is a matter of hard times and how to bear them that has to be borne responsibly upon the shoulders of either Brown or Cameron this year and next. Time will tell. All I can say here is, May the Best Party Win. With respect, Major!

There is little to be gained in taking you to task over your misconceptions regarding Margaret Thatchers tenure in No 10. In this area we are 180 degrees apart and must therefore agree to differ.

I do wonder how you reconcile your suggestion that you prefer the politics of the left, but seem to be in full support of New Labour. Ideologically I have little problem with New Labour. This alone is all the confirmation that you need that they are not a left wing party. New Labour in several areas of policy are, if anything, to the right of the Conservatives, and are a centrist party with a small left wing 'hangover' from the days when they were social democrats. Are you one of the many socialists who although effectively disenfranchised by Labour feel the need to belong to the party, in the unrealistic belief that you might yet revert the Labour Party back to its roots? If so I acknowledge your optimism.

My objection to Labour, who incidentally I voted for in 1997, has nothing to do with ideology and all to do with incompetence, arrogance, hubris, dishonesty and the breathtaking profligacy and waste of taxpayers money. They have failed to improve the conditions of the majority in our society in terms of health, education, welfare, law and order, transport despite thirteen years of swingeing increases in taxation and expenditure. They are now a party bankrupt of principle and integrity in much the same way that Major's administration was in 1997.

However I do agree that we are each entitled to our own political beliefs. I also agree with your sentiment that may the best party win. We are of course each referring to a different party.

[Jim Franklin]

I also agree with your sentiment that may the best party win.

Damn....that means we wont have any Government then

[Janus]

We will and must needs have a government, because an anarchy-state is not a practical or safe situ to exist in, and would then form a government all of their own, the hyps. We have to get the best deal and that is to vote for the most experienced party leader there is with things like the economy, and that for me is former chancellor of the exchequer Gordon Brown. Gordon is not a bad leader, it is people's expectations of him-or of anyone, Cameron included- that are too harsh considering the recent political and financial drought we've been through with two wars and the recession. The socialist ethic is still a great one, it is far better than capitalism. Labour might fall at certain hurdles and then get up and keep going again. That's what is important, to keep going and not give up. Gordon Brown is safe in that he is a highly, ruthlessly intelligent leader. He knows what Britain needs on top of equal opportunities and all that. He wants to give it, he just needs to find more strategic ways of doing so without resorting to recent tried-and-failed methods. Boom-and-bust was to help Britain survive an otherwise potentially disastrous situ from which we might not have recovered without the borrowing, and we have learnt how Labour successfully have coped with the haulage to recovery that Cameron would also be faced with if he were in power. It is also a matter of party ethics and one's heart being in the right place. May the party that's right for us win-it is up to you the voters to decide who that is to be.

[Major Sinic]

We will and must needs have a government, because an anarchy-state is not a practical or safe situ to exist in, and would then form a government all of their own, the hyps. We have to get the best deal and that is to vote for the most experienced party leader there is with things like the economy, and that for me is former chancellor of the exchequer Gordon Brown. Gordon is not a bad leader, it is people's expectations of him-or of anyone, Cameron included- that are too harsh considering the recent political and financial drought we've been through with two wars and the recession. The socialist ethic is still a great one, it is far better than capitalism. Labour might fall at certain hurdles and then get up and keep going again. That's what is important, to keep going and not give up. Gordon Brown is safe in that he is a highly, ruthlessly intelligent leader. He knows what Britain needs on top of equal opportunities and all that. He wants to give it, he just needs to find more strategic ways of doing so without resorting to recent tried-and-failed methods. Boom-and-bust was to help Britain survive an otherwise potentially disastrous situ from which we might not have recovered without the borrowing, and we have learnt how Labour successfully have coped with the haulage to recovery that Cameron would also be faced with if he were in power. It is also a matter of party ethics and one's heart being in the right place. May the party that's right for us win-it is up to you the voters to decide who that is to be.

So you don't attempt to reconcile your proffered left wing ideology with your support of a centrist, and very definitely not socialist, Labour party.

Amongst your bumbling and empty rhetoric I will pick up on one or two points. Gordon Brown was not a bad Chancellor and he is not a bad leader. He was an arrogant, incompetent Chancellor who friittered away hundreds of billion pounds of taxpayers money whilst returning no additional value to society. He is proving to be an arrogant, weak and vacillating leader who is not fit for purpose. In short he was an appalling Chancellor and is an appalling leader.You are in reality acknowledging that he has run out of ideas but you nevertheless want him to stay in post whilst he casts around for an idea he hasn't yet screwed up. The 'socialist ethic is a great one, it is better than capitalism'. What superficial tripe. Socialism has failed wherever and whenever it has been tried. We have neither a socialist nor a capitalist system in this country. Like the rest of western Europe we live in a mixed economy.

Once you start talking about 'keeping going and not giving up' and 'heart in the right place' and 'he wants to give' I realise that your grasp of national politics is tenuous to say the least, and will leave you to enjoy your sweet pink candyfloss world full of ever such nice people trying ever so hard to do nice things! God give me strength!!!!

[Janus]

Gordon Brown WAS trying to do the right thing. He was trying to borrow money and use taxpayers money to both boost his cabinet morale and save Britain from a weakening economy. It was no more a candyfloss era under The Magdalene but one of despair for the working-class and school leavers. Never was there a worse time in political history when a women like The Mad Thatcher tried to take it away from us and make an exclusively proto-capitalist empire. The only sensible thing I recall her doing was to advocate regulating the banking system.
Socialism IS a good thing if you see it as the harbinger of social justice and equal opportunities for all, jobs and education especially. There has to be a shifting of the sands in the system sometimes to cope with the pressures of reality. The economic recession was one of those things GB had to cope with-he and his cabinet minister of financial affairs Alistair Darling-to the best of their political power. If an earthquake or some disaster hits your nation you try to salvage from the wreckage what you can-it is not your fault, it is just your bad luck to have to do it. It would have been the same for Cameron as for Brown. It depends upon the strength of the party and the ability of the leader. Gordon borrowed to keep us from being swallowed by the depression. If he had not done we would be in a far worse state-more businesses would have gone under and the debt crisis would be far worse as people came out of it: less money borrowed for less opportunity by the public, and the general maintenance of the benefits-systems would have suffered too.
In order to keep people happy in the here and now we had to go along with him, then steadily fight to get our country back on its feet afterwards as well.
The Conservatives would have gotten us into a worse state, I can assure you, with their Magdalena-Thatcherisation revivalism programme of unethical capitalism where the big fish eat the little ones. At least with socialism you and I both have a chance.

[Major Sinic]

[QUOTE]

Once upon a time in the land of Fantasy

Gordon Brown WAS trying to do the right thing. He was trying to borrow money and use taxpayers money to both boost his cabinet morale and save Britain from a weakening economy. It was no more a candyfloss era under The Magdalene but one of despair for the working-class and school leavers. Never was there a worse time in political history when a women like The Mad Thatcher tried to take it away from us and make an exclusively proto-capitalist empire. The only sensible thing I recall her doing was to advocate regulating the banking system.
Socialism IS a good thing if you see it as the harbinger of social justice and equal opportunities for all, jobs and education especially. There has to be a shifting of the sands in the system sometimes to cope with the pressures of reality. The economic recession was one of those things GB had to cope with-he and his cabinet minister of financial affairs Alistair Darling-to the best of their political power. If an earthquake or some disaster hits your nation you try to salvage from the wreckage what you can-it is not your fault, it is just your bad luck to have to do it. It would have been the same for Cameron as for Brown. It depends upon the strength of the party and the ability of the leader. Gordon borrowed to keep us from being swallowed by the depression. If he had not done we would be in a far worse state-more businesses would have gone under and the debt crisis would be far worse as people came out of it: less money borrowed for less opportunity by the public, and the general maintenance of the benefits-systems would have suffered too.
In order to keep people happy in the here and now we had to go along with him, then steadily fight to get our country back on its feet afterwards as well.
The Conservatives would have gotten us into a worse state, I can assure you, with their Magdalena-Thatcherisation revivalism programme of unethical capitalism where the big fish eat the little ones. At least with socialism you and I both have a chance.

And they all lived happily ever after.

[Midas]

Gordon Brown WAS trying to do the right thing. He was trying to borrow money and use taxpayers money to both boost his cabinet morale and save Britain from a weakening economy. It was no more a candyfloss era under The Magdalene but one of despair for the working-class and school leavers. Never was there a worse time in political history when a women like The Mad Thatcher tried to take it away from us and make an exclusively proto-capitalist empire. The only sensible thing I recall her doing was to advocate regulating the banking system.
Socialism IS a good thing if you see it as the harbinger of social justice and equal opportunities for all, jobs and education especially. There has to be a shifting of the sands in the system sometimes to cope with the pressures of reality. The economic recession was one of those things GB had to cope with-he and his cabinet minister of financial affairs Alistair Darling-to the best of their political power. If an earthquake or some disaster hits your nation you try to salvage from the wreckage what you can-it is not your fault, it is just your bad luck to have to do it. It would have been the same for Cameron as for Brown. It depends upon the strength of the party and the ability of the leader. Gordon borrowed to keep us from being swallowed by the depression. If he had not done we would be in a far worse state-more businesses would have gone under and the debt crisis would be far worse as people came out of it: less money borrowed for less opportunity by the public, and the general maintenance of the benefits-systems would have suffered too.
In order to keep people happy in the here and now we had to go along with him, then steadily fight to get our country back on its feet afterwards as well.
The Conservatives would have gotten us into a worse state, I can assure you, with their Magdalena-Thatcherisation revivalism programme of unethical capitalism where the big fish eat the little ones. At least with socialism you and I both have a chance.

If you think socialism is such a good thing, can I suggest you read my blog entry The Sad Road to Socialism and then come back and refute any parts of what I said which aren't true... Having social responsibility is one thing, and I'll freely admit this country is sadly lacking in that, but that's not a political persuasion and can go hand in hand with capitalism given the right leadership and education.

I, and a considerable number of my friends and acquaintances, have Maggie Thatcher to thank for where we are today; she created the right social and economic climate for massive growth in this country, and whilst the gap between the richer and the poorer might have increased, everyone became better off. The subsequent Blair/Brown combination has ruined that for everyone and left an inheritance that will be with us for decades. Heaven help which ever government is left trying to clear up their mess.

[Janus]

Once upon a time in the land of

Capital Gain

they all lived

Capitally exclusively after.

The privileged that was, during Maggie Hour.