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There would not be a

This is a discussion on There would not be a within the Labour Party Political Forum forums, part of the Political Parties Forum category; Way back in the days of Blair's Bambi like smile,and his gigantic 160 odd Seat Majority.Tony Blair promised us along ...

  1. #1
    WESTERN RANGER is offline Senior MP
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    Exclamation There would not be a

    Way back in the days of Blair's Bambi like smile,and his gigantic 160 odd Seat Majority.Tony
    Blair promised us along with other things, a total Root and Branch overhaul of the Voting system.Then 9/11 happened and it was all just more hot air.However if Blair had held his nerve and introduced Proportional Representation it would be all over bar the Shouting.The
    Conservative Party would have become a Hard Right wing rump of the crazy Nazi protest vote
    in the EU.Strange this would become it's only Voice as it had done so much during it's time to
    sabotage the European Project.The Lib Dems and the Labour Party along with the Greens would have become the major Parties the Tories would have vanished up IDS Arsehole where they belong.I was unlucky enough to leave School in 1980 just when Thatcher had took
    her Economic Experiment called "Monetarism" to all our Manufacturing Industry.(This experiment was later abandoned as it was totally unworkable and utterly unpredictable).This
    though was much later when all our Export producing Concerns were closed down and the very modern and expensive Plant sold off to Korea and Japan.I was 16 years old in 1980 and
    I managed to get a Job as an Apprentice Bricklayer (even though the Building Trade was flattened,as the first thing Thatcher did was forbid the building of anymore Council Houses).This she knew would soon exhaust the rented Housing Stock so the Private Landlords
    who she worshiped oh so much could charge what they liked for a slum dwelling.Also for good measure she outlawed any Council Maintenance programme and did not allow the money from the sale of Council Houses to go towards creating any more building work.This shrunk the Rented accommodation market to breaking point.However it's task was twofold.As this also swelled the value of Houses to a remarkable unsustainable level.Which we saw the result of in the 1988 Lawson Boom.Once my Apprenticeship was over I was sick of life on the
    Dole (as there was no Building Work) so I joined the Royal Marines for seven years.Oh yes I well remember that Tory Government and it's utter destruction of this Countries Economic Manufacturing base.The huge pool of North Sea oil was squandered on Giro Payments while
    the inner Cities went up in Flames.
    This is not even counting the unprecedented cost and damage which "BLACK WEDNESDAY" brought to our Country.sCameron was one of Norman Lamont's
    ad-visors,( an advisor who advises that £ 17 Billion should be thrown away keeping the Pound
    at an totally unsustainable level against the Deutsche Mark).The moron Lamont put up interest
    rates no fewer than 15 times that day,at one stage he put them up five times in one Hour!!!!.
    Behind it all sCameron our idiot advisor,on top of this little lot the Joke Brixton Bore John Major was sacking 60,000 Miners and then going to the Tory Conference to claim he was bullied because his fool Father made (guess what???) Garden Gnomes,perhaps only the Tory
    Party could clap a moron soft bastard like boring Major because his old fool Father made Gnomes!?!?.Quite incredible isn't it??.The idiot sCameron advised Lamont is the worst so-called chancellor in the sad History of that once great Office of State.This IDIOT heaped that much **** onto it I can never ever see it regaining it's place at the high Table of State importance.The Germans could simply not believe what Lamont and his "Advisor" was doing.
    George Soros only had to sit back to make £13 Billion betting against our POUND.Lamont was
    like a Rabbit caught in the Headlights of a speeding Car,he could not adjust his tactics,so our
    Country went and blew it's entire Gold Bullion reserves, oh and his "Advisor" did his "Advising"
    and got away with Bankrupting a Country.
    David sCameron Google Page Ranking Man,Eton Rifle and his Bum Boy Gideon are total morons I would not trust them with Monopoly Money, you have been warned.

  2. #2
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    Happy Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by WESTERN RANGER View Post
    Way back in the days of Blair's Bambi like smile,and his gigantic 160 odd Seat Majority.Tony
    Blair promised us along with other things, a total Root and Branch overhaul of the Voting system.Then 9/11 happened and it was all just more hot air.However if Blair had held his nerve and introduced Proportional Representation it would be all over bar the Shouting.The
    Conservative Party would have become a Hard Right wing rump of the crazy Nazi protest vote
    in the EU.Strange this would become it's only Voice as it had done so much during it's time to
    sabotage the European Project.The Lib Dems and the Labour Party along with the Greens would have become the major Parties the Tories would have vanished up IDS Arsehole where they belong.I was unlucky enough to leave School in 1980 just when Thatcher had took
    her Economic Experiment called "Monetarism" to all our Manufacturing Industry.(This experiment was later abandoned as it was totally unworkable and utterly unpredictable).This
    though was much later when all our Export producing Concerns were closed down and the very modern and expensive Plant sold off to Korea and Japan.I was 16 years old in 1980 and
    I managed to get a Job as an Apprentice Bricklayer (even though the Building Trade was flattened,as the first thing Thatcher did was forbid the building of anymore Council Houses).This she knew would soon exhaust the rented Housing Stock so the Private Landlords
    who she worshiped oh so much could charge what they liked for a slum dwelling.Also for good measure she outlawed any Council Maintenance programme and did not allow the money from the sale of Council Houses to go towards creating any more building work.This shrunk the Rented accommodation market to breaking point.However it's task was twofold.As this also swelled the value of Houses to a remarkable unsustainable level.Which we saw the result of in the 1988 Lawson Boom.Once my Apprenticeship was over I was sick of life on the
    Dole (as there was no Building Work) so I joined the Royal Marines for seven years.Oh yes I well remember that Tory Government and it's utter destruction of this Countries Economic Manufacturing base.The huge pool of North Sea oil was squandered on Giro Payments while
    the inner Cities went up in Flames.
    This is not even counting the unprecedented cost and damage which "BLACK WEDNESDAY" brought to our Country.sCameron was one of Norman Lamont's
    ad-visors,( an advisor who advises that £ 17 Billion should be thrown away keeping the Pound
    at an totally unsustainable level against the Deutsche Mark).The moron Lamont put up interest
    rates no fewer than 15 times that day,at one stage he put them up five times in one Hour!!!!.
    Behind it all sCameron our idiot advisor,on top of this little lot the Joke Brixton Bore John Major was sacking 60,000 Miners and then going to the Tory Conference to claim he was bullied because his fool Father made (guess what???) Garden Gnomes,perhaps only the Tory
    Party could clap a moron soft bastard like boring Major because his old fool Father made Gnomes!?!?.Quite incredible isn't it??.The idiot sCameron advised Lamont is the worst so-called chancellor in the sad History of that once great Office of State.This IDIOT heaped that much **** onto it I can never ever see it regaining it's place at the high Table of State importance.The Germans could simply not believe what Lamont and his "Advisor" was doing.
    George Soros only had to sit back to make £13 Billion betting against our POUND.Lamont was
    like a Rabbit caught in the Headlights of a speeding Car,he could not adjust his tactics,so our
    Country went and blew it's entire Gold Bullion reserves, oh and his "Advisor" did his "Advising"
    and got away with Bankrupting a Country.
    David sCameron Google Page Ranking Man,Eton Rifle and his Bum Boy Gideon are total morons I would not trust them with Monopoly Money, you have been warned.
    Hi WR, I thought you had emigrated. A brilliant concise summary of the history of the the last Toe-rag administration and what might be in store for us if Cameron and his ventriloquist dummy Osbourne win tomorrow. Unfortunately memories are short and we have a new wave of young naive voters who have not yet been exposed, or suffered at the hands of our born to rule Tory elite.

    Nice to hear from you again or have I missed your contributions on other threads?
    Advocates of capitalism believe : "The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate"

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    Major Sinic is offline Senior MP
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by WESTERN RANGER View Post
    Way back in the days of Blair's Bambi like smile,and his gigantic 160 odd Seat Majority.Tony
    Blair promised us along with other things, a total Root and Branch overhaul of the Voting system.Then 9/11 happened and it was all just more hot air.However if Blair had held his nerve and introduced Proportional Representation it would be all over bar the Shouting.The
    Conservative Party would have become a Hard Right wing rump of the crazy Nazi protest vote
    in the EU.Strange this would become it's only Voice as it had done so much during it's time to
    sabotage the European Project.The Lib Dems and the Labour Party along with the Greens would have become the major Parties the Tories would have vanished up IDS Arsehole where they belong.I was unlucky enough to leave School in 1980 just when Thatcher had took
    her Economic Experiment called "Monetarism" to all our Manufacturing Industry.(This experiment was later abandoned as it was totally unworkable and utterly unpredictable).This
    though was much later when all our Export producing Concerns were closed down and the very modern and expensive Plant sold off to Korea and Japan.I was 16 years old in 1980 and
    I managed to get a Job as an Apprentice Bricklayer (even though the Building Trade was flattened,as the first thing Thatcher did was forbid the building of anymore Council Houses).This she knew would soon exhaust the rented Housing Stock so the Private Landlords
    who she worshiped oh so much could charge what they liked for a slum dwelling.Also for good measure she outlawed any Council Maintenance programme and did not allow the money from the sale of Council Houses to go towards creating any more building work.This shrunk the Rented accommodation market to breaking point.However it's task was twofold.As this also swelled the value of Houses to a remarkable unsustainable level.Which we saw the result of in the 1988 Lawson Boom.Once my Apprenticeship was over I was sick of life on the
    Dole (as there was no Building Work) so I joined the Royal Marines for seven years.Oh yes I well remember that Tory Government and it's utter destruction of this Countries Economic Manufacturing base.The huge pool of North Sea oil was squandered on Giro Payments while
    the inner Cities went up in Flames.
    This is not even counting the unprecedented cost and damage which "BLACK WEDNESDAY" brought to our Country.sCameron was one of Norman Lamont's
    ad-visors,( an advisor who advises that £ 17 Billion should be thrown away keeping the Pound
    at an totally unsustainable level against the Deutsche Mark).The moron Lamont put up interest
    rates no fewer than 15 times that day,at one stage he put them up five times in one Hour!!!!.
    Behind it all sCameron our idiot advisor,on top of this little lot the Joke Brixton Bore John Major was sacking 60,000 Miners and then going to the Tory Conference to claim he was bullied because his fool Father made (guess what???) Garden Gnomes,perhaps only the Tory
    Party could clap a moron soft bastard like boring Major because his old fool Father made Gnomes!?!?.Quite incredible isn't it??.The idiot sCameron advised Lamont is the worst so-called chancellor in the sad History of that once great Office of State.This IDIOT heaped that much **** onto it I can never ever see it regaining it's place at the high Table of State importance.The Germans could simply not believe what Lamont and his "Advisor" was doing.
    George Soros only had to sit back to make £13 Billion betting against our POUND.Lamont was
    like a Rabbit caught in the Headlights of a speeding Car,he could not adjust his tactics,so our
    Country went and blew it's entire Gold Bullion reserves, oh and his "Advisor" did his "Advising"
    and got away with Bankrupting a Country.
    David sCameron Google Page Ranking Man,Eton Rifle and his Bum Boy Gideon are total morons I would not trust them with Monopoly Money, you have been warned.
    One could take apart this biased diatribe point by point, but it is such a massive distortion of the reality and truth that it really isn't worth the effort. Your summation of what might have happened if Blair had kept his promise about Proportional Representation is sufficiently naive as to be almost amusing. Just because you wish something might have happened, does not mean it would have happened, if either Blair and Brown had had the integrity and honesty to keep their manifesto promises. As it turns out both have been shown to be serial liars.

    You Labourites are bankrupt of policy and principle after thirteen years of incompetent government, you can't trade on the governments record without being laughed at, so all that is left is to make bitter and dishonest attacks on a government which ceased to be in power over thirteen years ago, and to use personal insults rather than any constructive criticism against the largest current political party in this country. The last thing this country needs is Labour in any form of government.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Under Labour employment has risen education improved, crime decrease and thousends of families have been brought out of poverty. Hacking the welfare state pieces will ruin the country even if it does put money in rich peoples pockets and balance the books.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Personally the last people I would trust to modernize the government and election system is a bunch of tycoons lead by Aristocratics. Cameron (a Cameron) Boris (a Hapsburg), Lord Ashcroft a foreign colonial crook etc...
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by WESTERN RANGER View Post
    went and blew it's entire Gold Bullion reserves.
    I assume we must have bought lots more gold between then and when Gordo sold all the gold again at rock bottom prices?
    The richest man is not he who has the most but he who needs the least.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Western Ranger

    I too was an apprentice Bricklayer (mid seventies) .Far from your stories of unemployment I found the 80,s a very good time to be "on the trowel".Work was abundent for good workers and for those who were prepared to get on their bikes. There is more to the construction industry than building council houses and dossing about on council maintenance contracts . Mrs T's government was very supportive to those who started up on their own,employed others and generally had a good work ethic.Maybe you should have tried it instead of expecting everything on a plate.

    Today the building industry is in collapes.Cheap eastern European labour (caused by Labours open door policy)has all but finnished the building trade as an option for our young people.Give me the Thatcher years anyday
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Edward Putland View Post
    Under Labour employment has risen education improved, crime decrease and thousends of families have been brought out of poverty. Hacking the welfare state pieces will ruin the country even if it does put money in rich peoples pockets and balance the books.
    You are actually wrong on each count. Under Labour unemployment has increased, violent crime has increased and the gap between the rich and poor has increased. No party is going to hack the welfare state to pieces, but any and all of the three main parties have no choice but to implement considerable tax increases and substantially reduce public sector expenditure if you or I want our children and grandchildren to have any quality of life at all. You as an individual can not live on borrowings indefinitely; you reach the point where there are no more loans to be had and your creditors are chasing you for payment. Our country is no different. Look at Greece to see how it can turn out. My point is not political but practical.

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    Major Sinic is offline Senior MP
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Edward Putland View Post
    Personally the last people I would trust to modernize the government and election system is a bunch of tycoons lead by Aristocratics. Cameron (a Cameron) Boris (a Hapsburg), Lord Ashcroft a foreign colonial crook etc...
    So you prefer Labour's Lord Paul ex-domicile crook just like Ashcroft , Lord 'Mandy' twice forced to resign for financial duplicity, Geoff Hoon, Steven Byers, Elliot Morley and the other Labour Ministers facing criminal prosecution for fraud. Interesting judgment on your part Robin. Not coloured by your ideology by any chance?
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    Re: There would not be a

    What concerns me is that not only do we have an unelected PM, but tomorrow he could still be PM despite his party garnering the least amount of votes.

    It isn't a measure of democracy if a sitting tenant cannot be removed despite the majority of the country voting against him is it? It isn't a servant of the people who ignores the wishes of the people is it? Not very socialist either, but then I don't see labour as a socialist party anymore.

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    WESTERN RANGER is offline Senior MP
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    Re: There would not be a

    I have never worked on a Council Contract in my entire life,"I wouldn't dare tell anyone if I had".I mentioned the Council House Building to illustrate a small part of a much bigger picture.Thatcher knew that
    supply and demand generally work Hand in Hand as far as things like Local Housing go.Therefore she cut off suplly at the bottom end of the market so as it would have a effect right through the entire system.Housing has not kept pace with the growing population,this is how slum Landlords can charge £120 per week for a one room puppet theatre.Then the right to buy took even more out of the equation,
    this was a very good idea,with one big drawback.The Houses which were sold were never replaced,therefore the Housing shortfall becomes ever bigger.ER have you got that now??
    As for getting on your Bike,I have grafted in this Country in Towns and Cities as diverse as Brighton to Aberdeen,"is that a long enough Bike ride for you"??.And everywhere in between.Also I have had four stints in Germany/Holland/France on Stonework Mullions/Belgium/The Irish Republic/Saudi/The UAE/Australia/Iraq/and the

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    WESTERN RANGER is offline Senior MP
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    Re: There would not be a

    I couldn't be bothered to explain anymore to a bottom of the heap Bricklayer,who thinks Thatcher and now sCameron think he is more than the **** on their Shoes.Keep dreaming bud one day they might let you lick their front Doorstep Clean for them.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    You are actually wrong on each count. Under Labour unemployment has increased, violent crime has increased.
    All other except violent crime has decreased. Before the recession employment has increased slowly, Youth unemloyment has increased thow, as there are more students and less unskilled starting jobs in Britian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Look at Greece to see how it can turn out.
    We are far from the mess the Greeks are in. Once we sell the banks back off the vast majority of the debt we be gone and hopefully we'll get a profit from them. Our welfare state isn't insanely cushy like greece where the retiring age in some state jobs is in the 40s. We also have a stronger more resiliant economy whch will recover, where the Greeks spent a lot of there loans on Campaigning to win elections.
    Yes the gap between the poor and rich is increasing and that needs to be adressed.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Of course its coloured by Ideology. Im for radical reform in the government to get rid of ex-dommiciles, fruadulent ministers and crooks. Also Im for making more of the parliment records and meeings open to the public and getting rid of the institution of the crown making the primeminister answerable to him self. No party who's part of the establishment will do it least of all a Conservative Aristocratic on.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    uncon's Avatar
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by WESTERN RANGER View Post
    I couldn't be bothered to explain anymore to a bottom of the heap Bricklayer,who thinks Thatcher and now sCameron think he is more than the **** on their Shoes.Keep dreaming bud one day they might let you lick their front Doorstep Clean for them.
    Firstly what is wrong with being a skilled bricklayer? Secondly exactly what mind reading qualifications do you have to assert what someone may think of their own family let alone a politician? As a suddenly newly skilled bricklayer(according to you) and a twenty years qualified building surveyor I would say your wall will fall down later than your prejudices, and we are talking a long time here. how proud you must be.

    Now
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Edward Putland View Post
    making the primeminister answerable to him self.
    As I'm a very seriously interested bystander, would you mind explaining that bit to me, the "answerable to himself part". I would think you would want him answerable to the people, otherwise it sounds like a dictatorship to me. The 'Dear Leader' is answerable to himself, Castro (pick one) is answerable to himself, Chavez is answerable to himself; is it a dictatorship you'll be wanting?
    I wonder why the things that should be so simple, so natural... like loving someone and letting them see into your heart... should require so much courage?

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    As I'm a very seriously interested bystander, would you mind explaining that bit to me, the "answerable to himself part". I would think you would want him answerable to the people, otherwise it sounds like a dictatorship to me. The 'Dear Leader' is answerable to himself, Castro (pick one) is answerable to himself, Chavez is answerable to himself; is it a dictatorship you'll be wanting?
    Serious typo there sorry. The form of the Institution of the crown, (Power of British soverienty) is in the hands of the Primeminister, who Ceremoniously gets it of the Queen who can't say no. This means he is answerable to himself as he has the sovereinty and runs the government. I meant to propose getting rid of that form of government so the people have the power of the crown so the Primeminister, Parliment and civil Service are answerable to the people. So more of a Republic inorganisation but people can keep The Ceremony and tradition. The Current system is a mess left over from the civil war.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Major Sinic is offline Senior MP
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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by WESTERN RANGER View Post
    I couldn't be bothered to explain anymore to a bottom of the heap Bricklayer,who thinks Thatcher and now sCameron think he is more than the **** on their Shoes.Keep dreaming bud one day they might let you lick their front Doorstep Clean for them.
    Fascinating! Do enlighten those of us not familiar with your trade, how the hierarchy of Bricklayers actually works. Assuming as you suggest that Streetwalker was a bottom of the heap bricklayer, where would you have been and what actually made you different? Perhaps the amount of travel on your cv? Do tell!
    Don likes this.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Fascinating! Do enlighten those of us not familiar with your trade, how the hierarchy of Bricklayers actually works. Assuming as you suggest that Streetwalker was a bottom of the heap bricklayer, where would you have been and what actually made you different? Perhaps the amount of travel on your cv? Do tell!

    The way it works Major is those who can do the job get work those who cant have to go elsewhere or do something else.As a site foreman I see it every day,They just cant grasp the idea that the team includes the boss.It was always a them and us mentality. Rangers comment about licking doorsteps says to me he is of this Ilk. I too have traveled extensivly working around the World,I did it because I was asked too not because I had too.

    Ps .Ranger ! I can get you a start.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Edward Putland View Post
    All other except violent crime has decreased. Before the recession employment has increased slowly, Youth unemloyment has increased thow, as there are more students and less unskilled starting jobs in Britian.

    We are far from the mess the Greeks are in. Once we sell the banks back off the vast majority of the debt we be gone and hopefully we'll get a profit from them. Our welfare state isn't insanely cushy like greece where the retiring age in some state jobs is in the 40s. We also have a stronger more resiliant economy whch will recover, where the Greeks spent a lot of there loans on Campaigning to win elections.
    Yes the gap between the poor and rich is increasing and that needs to be adressed.
    Yes we are currently not in the mess that Greece is in, but we are not as far as away as you might think. The money that the taxpayer actually invested in the bank bailout is in the region of 10% of our national debt, which itself is approaching one trillion pounds. I have to count the noughts twice to know I've got it right, but it equates to £48000 per household in the UK and is increasing all the time. Our budget deficit for the last year was over £160 million. Excluding any of the cost associated with the banking collapse, our tax receipts only cover approximately £3 in every £4 that the government spends. If we haven't convinced the IMF and the ECB that we have a feasible and implementable economic recovery plan in place by the end of this year, the international financial community is going to lose confidence in the pound, our credit rating would almost certainly be downgraded resulting in higher interest payments on our debt. Interest payments at the moment are greater than our defence budget. At that point we would be on the slippery slope, just as Greece is. This situation is the biggest challenge facing whatever government we elect, and not one of the three parties has even begun to tell us the truth about the tax increases and public service cuts. As a society we, in reality have no choice but to accept what comes.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetwalker View Post
    The way it works Major is those who can do the job get work those who cant have to go elsewhere or do something else.As a site foreman I see it every day,They just cant grasp the idea that the team includes the boss.It was always a them and us mentality. Rangers comment about licking doorsteps says to me he is of this Ilk. I too have traveled extensivly working around the World,I did it because I was asked too not because I had too.

    Ps .Ranger ! I can get you a start.
    you are saying you will do anything to keep your job.

    I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it is hardly a socialist principle is it? would go as far as saying you are espousing a thatcherite principle.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by uncon View Post
    you are saying you will do anything to keep your job.

    I'm not saying that is a bad thing, but it is hardly a socialist principle is it? would go as far as saying you are espousing a thatcherite principle.
    I think you are confusing me with someone else, socialist??????
    The way I see it is you go to work and do your best for yourself/your boss /your company. In return you /your company does well and you have a continuation of employment and financial reward.
    Thats the way it should be and why I was a Thatcher supporter

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Yes we are currently not in the mess that Greece is in, but we are not as far as away as you might think. The money that the taxpayer actually invested in the bank bailout is in the region of 10% of our national debt, which itself is approaching one trillion pounds. I have to count the noughts twice to know I've got it right, but it equates to £48000 per household in the UK and is increasing all the time. Our budget deficit for the last year was over £160 million. Excluding any of the cost associated with the banking collapse, our tax receipts only cover approximately £3 in every £4 that the government spends. If we haven't convinced the IMF and the ECB that we have a feasible and implementable economic recovery plan in place by the end of this year, the international financial community is going to lose confidence in the pound, our credit rating would almost certainly be downgraded resulting in higher interest payments on our debt. Interest payments at the moment are greater than our defence budget. At that point we would be on the slippery slope, just as Greece is. This situation is the biggest challenge facing whatever government we elect, and not one of the three parties has even begun to tell us the truth about the tax increases and public service cuts. As a society we, in reality have no choice but to accept what comes.
    I agree with all of that. we just have to see what the Coalition Governent will do about it.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Edward Putland View Post
    Of course its coloured by Ideology. Im for radical reform in the government to get rid of ex-dommiciles, fruadulent ministers and crooks. Also Im for making more of the parliment records and meeings open to the public and getting rid of the institution of the crown making the primeminister answerable to him self. No party who's part of the establishment will do it least of all a Conservative Aristocratic on.
    We don't disagree on the principle of parliamentary reform and cleaning up corruption in politics. However you seem to think that Labour are the party to do it. I don't understand why you think this.

    When you objectively review their thirteen years in government we have witnessed the peerages for sale scandal, cash for questions by both Labour MPs, ministers and peers, along with the personal expenses scandal. In terms of parliamentary reform Labour promised a referendum in 1997 and then broke this promise, as they did the one about a European Constitution. Both Labour Prime Minsters have been shown to be serial liars, the first having taken us into an illegal war on the basis of lies, which has cost the lives of hundreds of British service personnel, not to mention the lives of tens of thousands of inncocent civilians.

    Frankly, Labour are about as principled as a Jewish pork butcher or a Muslim moneylender!
    Midas likes this.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    We don't disagree on the principle of parliamentary reform and cleaning up corruption in politics. However you seem to think that Labour are the party to do it. I don't understand why you think this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    peerages for sale scandal personal expenses scandal.
    That had been going on for hundreds of years and done by all parties. Labour got caught and now its stopped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Referendum in 1997 and then broke this promise, European Constitution.
    Yeah but at least they were considering it. Now may be the best time to get reform with a hung Parliment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    Both Labour Prime Minsters have been shown to be serial liars,
    Most politicians are aren't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Major Sinic View Post
    the first having taken us into an illegal war on the basis of lies, which has cost the lives of hundreds of British service personnel, not to mention the lives of tens of thousands of inncocent civilians.
    The war was illegal and costly Blair is still one of the only people who knew why we went to war. All parties and politicians were decieved and the tories agreed to go to war.

    Frankly, Labour are about as principled as a Jewish pork butcher or a Muslim moneylender!
    Labour does need structurng and a shake up to thow out some front benches.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    Well I messed up quoting there, sorry.
    Man is the creature of circumstances, Robert Owen.
    A frightful hobgoblin stalks through Europe the hobgoblin of communism, Karl Marx.
    Remember three commands:distrust the bourgeoisie; control your own leaders; and rely on your revolutionary strength, Leon Trotsky.

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    Re: There would not be a

    I don't think this result is actually a ditching of labour per se.
    They are not being rejected but Brown is resoundingly.

    If this man is such a safe pair of hands and far sighted leader...how come he just can't seem to see that HE is the problem. Every time he is told he is unwanted he just hangs on as his 'duty'. He is the ultimate unwanted party guests who just seems to resist every form of ejection. His own party tried and failed and now the terrifying prospect is that he can resist the entire bloody country!

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