what do the libs actually stand for?

[hinckleylad]

most people see them as a mish mash of both labour/tory, am i wrong or is there clear policy differences, what sets them apart from the other mainstream parties?

[JacquesMagique]

most people see them as a mish mash of both labour/tory, am i wrong or is there clear policy differences, what sets them apart from the other mainstream parties?

They stand for new liberalism, as opposed to the Neoconservatism of the
tories, or the social democratism (supposedly) of Labour.


In practice, this means they do share a similar economic policy to labour, in the sense that they believe in fairly redistributive tax, a well mixed economy, and supported the concept of fiscal stimulus through a larger budget deficit etc, although they often criticse the finer details of Labours economic policy, i think probably for political pointscoring rather than any other reason.

The main thing which sets them apart from the other 2 is their social policy. They are particularly against ID cards and a national DNA database. Many of them wish to end unelected government by reforming or scrapping the house of lords. They would introduce a written constituion. They want to restore the right to protest. there also whisperings of wanting to decriminalise possession of soft drugs, but this isn't official policy as i suspect it would prove quite unpopular.
In a sense, their social policy is comparable to some of the more libertarian elements of the Conservatives, but this isn't really representative of them as a whole.

I like to think that they combine the better elements of both parties, with a bit of their own New Liberalism thrown in also.

[hinckleylad]

you mean then, they are the same as the others, no real difference....cannot understand why people continually elect them in then if all they are is a fence sitting, policy pinching party!

[JacquesMagique]

you mean then, they are the same as the others, no real difference....cannot understand why people continually elect them in then if all they are is a fence sitting, policy pinching party!

Noo i mean, like i said, they are a combination of the better parts of the two, What you said is like saying "the bnp want the UK out of the EU, and UKIP do as well, so the BNP are just policy pinchers... "

[Cicero]

The Liberal Democrats's position is Liberalism/Social Liberalism (as opposed to Social democrat) which currently puts to them to the left of Labour while retaining a centre-left stance. This is mostly seen in their social policies, which promote social freedom through postive, rather than negative, liberty, achieved through political reform to esure more representative goverment. As JacquesMagique said in his first post, they oppose the introduction of ID cards and the use of a DNA database and want to put an end to restrictions on protest, as they see these as unacceptable limitations on the liberty of the individual.

This is extended to their other policies, as they support co-operation with international bodies, such as the UN on several measures, such as war, which they would accept only as a last resort, with security concil approval, as well as being the most pro-European of the three parties. They also mantain strong support for convervation and enviromental protection.

Largely then, the Lib Dems support the idea of protecting individual freedoms to an extent which you wouldn't see from the other two major parties, neither of which would support sweeping political reform. They also consider the long term political, humanitarian and enviromental of policies which I think sets them apart to some extent from the other parties and the idea of them as "fence sitting" or simply the combination of the "best bits" of both parties as opposed to one whose ideas go beyond those of Labour or the Tories shows a obvious misunderstanding of where the party stands

[hinckleylad]

Noo i mean, like i said, they are a combination of the better parts of the two, What you said is like saying "the bnp want the UK out of the EU, and UKIP do as well, so the BNP are just policy pinchers... "

difference being that the bnp were established before ukip, so i can understand why you think ukip are oppotunistic and trying to pinch our policies

[CAGAN]

most people see them as a mish mash of both labour/tory, am i wrong or is there clear policy differences, what sets them apart from the other mainstream parties?

They are Labour as Labour were. They have taken the worst bits out of Labours past and called them their own. They want higher taxes so they can give the underclass a better standard of living and whilst the door to immigration is only three quarters open they want to fully open it. I would rather see another term of Labour than ever see that lot get in power.

[CAGAN]

difference being that the bnp were established before ukip, so i can understand why you think ukip are oppotunistic and trying to pinch our policies

I don't see why you compare the two. UKIP would like to freeze immigration I grant you, but apart from that they are quite different. I like both parties, but UKIP are far broader.

[Cicero]

They are Labour as Labour were. They have taken the worst bits out of Labours past and called them their own

Because they emphasize social freedom & shifting the burden of taxation onto those who can afford to pay more?

They want higher taxes so they can give the underclass a better standard of living

Actually, they support progressive taxation, which would mean lessening the burden on lower income and middle class people while making those in the higher tax bracket pay more.

and whilst the door to immigration is only three quarters open they want to fully open it. I would rather see another term of Labour than ever see that lot get in power.

[JacquesMagique]

difference being that the bnp were established before ukip, so i can understand why you think ukip are oppotunistic and trying to pinch our policies

just as the liberals were established before labour..?

[Expounder]

They are Labour as Labour were. They have taken the worst bits out of Labours past and called them their own. They want higher taxes so they can give the underclass a better standard of living and whilst the door to immigration is only three quarters open they want to fully open it. I would rather see another term of Labour than ever see that lot get in power.

The "underclass" is not a particularly wise phrase to use when decribing the working class, the translation of this word this has echos of Hitlers decription of anyone not of Ayrian blood whom he called [the Untermenge] and we all know what happened to them.

[Albion 69]

The main thing which sets them apart from the other 2 is their social policy. They are particularly against ID cards and a national DNA database.

The Conservatives are also against ID cards and a National DNA data base .

They are Labour as Labour were. They have taken the worst bits out of Labours past and called them their own. They want higher taxes so they can give the underclass a better standard of living and whilst the door to immigration is only three quarters open they want to fully open it. I would rather see another term of Labour than ever see that lot get in power.

It would be a close run thing but I would probably agree , the Lib Dems are a dishonest opportunistic bunch portraying themselves as different things in different constituencies . Thank goodness their immigration and European policies guarantee they will never make the breakthrough

[JacquesMagique]

The Conservatives are also against ID cards and a National DNA data base .

Not all of them. And to be fair, it was pretty much only because they didn't think of it first..

[Albion 69]

Not all of them. And to be fair, it was pretty much only because they didn't think of it first..

True not all of them , but it is their policy now ... better late than never .

[TellMeMore]

The "underclass" is not a particularly wise phrase to use when decribing the working class, the translation of this word this has echos of Hitlers decription of anyone not of Ayrian blood whom he called [the Untermenge] and we all know what happened to them.

I believe it's only the Graundia who believe that the working class are the underclass, but we know who the real underclass are and they don't work.
As to the topic 'what are the libdems for', yes, what indeed.

[JacquesMagique]

True not all of them , but it is their policy now ... better late than never .

No I mean the only reason they opposed it was because labour thought of it. why wouldnt they want a tighter control over the population, i think they would have done the same in labour's position.

[Opinionated]

I seem to remember that John Major's government proposed an id card in 1995, if there's another 7/7 they will reverse this position!
I do think the erosion of civil liberty will be a big election issue though
"The best way to take control over a people and control them
utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode
rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights
and freedoms being removed until past the point at which
these changes cannot be reversed" - Adolf Hitler
Does that break whats-his-faces law?
...Godwin (looked it up!)

[JacquesMagique]

"The best way to take control over a people and control them
utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode
rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights
and freedoms being removed until past the point at which
these changes cannot be reversed" - Adolf Hitler
Does that break whats-his-faces law?
...Godwin (looked it up!)

It does, but who cares, that's a very powerful quote