Welsh nationalist MP wants to scrap Red Arrows

[Nicholas]

THE Red Arrows should be scrapped and the money diverted to frontline forces and the police, an MP said last night.


It costs £8.8million a year to keep the RAF display team in the skies and Welsh nationalist Jonathan Edwards claims they are a luxury Britain can no longer afford.
Last night he said: “The money could be put to better use. The Tories and Lib Dems must ask themselves: Do we want money spent on a display team that offers no operational use or on equipment for soldiers under attack on the front line?”
The Government is trying to plug a £37billion hole in the defence budget and figures obtained by Mr Edwards under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that the RAF spent £4.6million on pilots and technicians for the Red Arrows in the last financial year. A further £2.6million went on maintenance, £1.2million on fuel and £400,000 on dye used for the team’s colourful displays.
Last year the Red Arrows took part in 82 displays in Britain and 12 overseas and two formal fly-pasts. ...

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Ground the Red Arrows, says Jonathan Edwards MP


I can think of some things I would rather scrap than a national treasure like the red Arrows. Asylum seekering, The welsh parliament, the scottish parliament or our frankly immoral war effort in Afghanistan to name but a few things.

[Midas]

THE Red Arrows should be scrapped and the money diverted to frontline forces and the police, an MP said last night.

[ ... ]

I can think of some things I would rather scrap than a national treasure like the red Arrows. Asylum seekering, The welsh parliament, the scottish parliament or our frankly immoral war effort in Afghanistan to name but a few things.

Absolutely!! I saw them yesterday at the Bristol Balloon Fiesta and they're a great crown puller - as are the Fleet Air Arm 'Black Cats' helicopter display team - if anyone tells you helicopters can't fly upside down or do a loop the loop don't believe them, they can. The Red Arrows' £8.8 million cost is well worth it in terms of publicity, and a drop in the ocean when compared to the total defence budget.

[soloman]

Absolutely!! I saw them yesterday at the Bristol Balloon Fiesta and they're a great crown puller - as are the Fleet Air Arm 'Black Cats' helicopter display team - if anyone tells you helicopters can't fly upside down or do a loop the loop don't believe them, they can. The Red Arrows' £8.8 million cost is well worth it in terms of publicity, and a drop in the ocean when compared to the total defence budget.

I spoke to RED 10, (the commentator) at a recent airshow who re-assured me that the sales of high-tec equipment internationally that the Red Arrows achieve, comfortably exceeds many times over the costs of their operation.

The criticising Welsh MP needs to engage brain before operating mouth!

[Midas]

I spoke to RED 10, (the commentator) at a recent airshow who re-assured me that the sales of high-tec equipment internationally that the Red Arrows achieve, comfortably exceeds many times over the costs of their operation.

I can well believe that; most of the forces' display teams can be looked at far more as a good sales and marketing tool for the forces themselves, and for some of the high tech companies who supply them, than simply as what the public see - although I'd say that on its own is value for money.

The criticising Welsh MP needs to engage brain before operating mouth!

Sounds very much like some of the people in this forum then Not that I'd ever mention any names of course......

[soloman]

I can well believe that; most of the forces' display teams can be looked at far more as a good sales and marketing tool for the forces themselves, and for some of the high tech companies who supply them, than simply as what the public see - although I'd say that on its own is value for money.



Sounds very much like some of the people in this forum then Not that I'd ever mention any names of course......

I recall a recent announcement that a Hawk production facility is being set up in India. I cannot imagine that this would have occurred without the dazzling displays of the Red Arrows.
They are internationally recognised as providing the most consistent quality air display throughout the world.
Perhaps that information hasn't yet reached Wales!

[DaveUK]

I'm going to watch them here in Dawlish today, there's an air show and they are doing a demonstration.
I have a better idea, why not just scrap Wales. It'san expense we can ill afford, it has nothing to offer.

[soloman]

I'm going to watch them here in Dawlish today, there's an air show and they are doing a demonstration.
I have a better idea, why not just scrap Wales. It'san expense we can ill afford, it has nothing to offer.

Totally agree!
If weather forecast is to be believed then the Reds may be forced to do their low level display which is a pity as their performance doing the full display so far this season is better than ever!

[Major Sinic]

I'm going to watch them here in Dawlish today, there's an air show and they are doing a demonstration.
I have a better idea, why not just scrap Wales. It'san expense we can ill afford, it has nothing to offer.

I do agree. Wales has the highest proportion of public sector employees of any of the Union countries, more even than Scotland. Each man, woman and child living in Wales receives some £1530 per annum in subsidies from England, not far off the £1690 received by each man, woman and child in Scotland.

[soloman]

I do agree. Wales has the highest proportion of public sector employees of any of the Union countries, more even than Scotland. Each man, woman and child living in Wales receives some £1530 per annum in subsidies from England, not far off the £1690 received by each man, woman and child in Scotland.

I am sure you expected it Major; what is the source of your stats?

[Major Sinic]

I am sure you expected it Major; what is the source of your stats?

Sorry! When I am quoting statistics I do normally provide sources. These figures come from the ONS, so whilst accurate they are a couple of years old. As a proponent of full independence for England I posted these figures to demonstrate the oppressive economic yoke of propping up the Union. The observation about public sector employees came from a recent Telegraph article but I can't recall the date.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I spoke to RED 10, (the commentator) at a recent airshow who re-assured me that the sales of high-tec equipment internationally that the Red Arrows achieve, comfortably exceeds many times over the costs of their operation.

The criticising Welsh MP needs to engage brain before operating mouth!

Hi,

clearly you have met very few Welsh politicians if you are still under the impression they have brain to engage - the skill of Welsh Politicians is in using a sponge of very low value for ALL actions that may mop up other peoples' money.

The motto of the so aptly named National Ass for Wales is unpronouncable and only understood by the people of 8 blocks of sheep surrounding the town of Carmarthen - funded by back handers and outright criminality by Pietre Hayne (for which he has a criminal record - guilty of fiddling benefits whilst Junior Minister).

The aim however is to use the sponge to mop up any available grant money whilst insulting those who provided it on the time honoured Welsh principle of Preying on their knees and their neighbours!

The principle aim of devolution was to cause problems for Westminster and beyond that Welsh politicians were clearly too stupid to understand and are therefore spending all available grant money they can not get away with trousering on expensive meals at The Celtic Monor fiddling mortgages in Cardiff Bay and trying to open and run Welsh Embassies on two bit tourist beeches around the world where they serve warm flat beer and chips.

As I recall somewhere around 80% of the people of wales derive all or part of their income from the state - Wales has absolutely no viable industry, has never launched a company without grants that EVER became a success outside Wales and even Polliouskis of Porth went bust - as did Laura Ashley without her falling down stairs!

The concept of the red arrows investing £8.8M a year in training etc. to sell £10s of Millions of technology is self evident to all but a Welsh Politician. Clearly with no viable Welsh businesses of any size beyond Williams' Celtic Maor which he gave to his sister so that he didn't have to come back from Canada and Newbridge Networks which was Monmouthshire anyway and was run from Canada - the rest of Wales has its hand out for handouts.

That said it would be the end of Britain if we were to let such details cause the demise of these United Kingdoms just because the same could be said of Scotland, Cornwall, Yorkshire, Cumbria and more!

I do note however that the idiot from Plaid made the comment to cause embarrassment during the 13 unlucky years of Labour which with PPF left us with a £13 Trillion dent that can NEVER be paid.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[DaveUK]

I vist South Wales quite often, all along the southern coast, Newpot, Cardiff, Swansea, Neath, Lynelli (probably spelt wrong), I also have freinds in the valleys near Caerphilly, Merthyr Tydfil, Ebbwr vale.
While I don't have anything like the political insight on Wales as Greg does, the depravation and poverty is self evident. It's clear that the Welsh assembly has done nothing to regenerate the south.
I find the Welsh to be a plucky, resouceful hard working bunch on the whole, I have a great many freinds there and love to visit as often as I can. It's a pity they've been let down by their own elected assembly that promised them so much. As if they hadn't suffered enough at the hands of Thatcher, they've been stuffed by their own politicians.

[Yeti]

The only thing that should be scrapped is the Welsh Assembly, followed closely by the Scot one.

Complete waste of money, they have MP's in westmister to represent there interest at government level and Councils for local issues.

There is no need for a seperate Government, no justification for the expense or devolution for that matter.

[Baff]

Seems a bit of an unkind moment to raise this issue.
I wonder if he beats his dog?

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I vist South Wales quite often, all along the southern coast, Newpot, Cardiff, Swansea, Neath, Lynelli (probably spelt wrong), I also have freinds in the valleys near Caerphilly, Merthyr Tydfil, Ebbwr vale.
While I don't have anything like the political insight on Wales as Greg does, the depravation and poverty is self evident. It's clear that the Welsh assembly has done nothing to regenerate the south.
I find the Welsh to be a plucky, resouceful hard working bunch on the whole, I have a great many freinds there and love to visit as often as I can. It's a pity they've been let down by their own elected assembly that promised them so much. As if they hadn't suffered enough at the hands of Thatcher, they've been stuffed by their own politicians.

Hi,

in what way did they suffer as a result of the Tories having invested more in Wales than every Labour government has ever done?

Thatcher was responsible for generating much inward investment - the design and developement of the heads of the valleys road, it was in her time the Millenium Stadium became a reality then completed under Labour, the LG Factory what else Oh year Williams' Celtic Manor & Golf Course. Rejuvenation of the valleys. Retraining of long obsolete miners. removing the parasites from the steel works and making them profitable.

Let me know what Labour ever did for Wales except copy Aneurin Bevan, Jim Callaghan, Lloyd George, The kinnocks and other useless Welsh articles and leave Wales.

What a great example Ron Davis was!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Seems a bit of an unkind moment to raise this issue.
I wonder if he beats his dog?

Hi,

one advantage of a GOOD Welsh education would probably mean you would have noted the thread was well over a year old when you resurrected it in rather poor taste!

The Red Arrows have brought a huge amount of pleasure and a tremendous number of export sales and jobs to these United Kingdoms - though I am not surprised a Welsh Nationalist would be stupid enough to want this icon of British excellentce banned - sad bitter irrelevant little chap!

Regards,
Greg_l_w.

[LA]

I am one of the few people who would like to see more military parades and events in Britain. I think they are a fantastic way of connecting the military to the public.

[srb7677]

Seems a bit of an unkind moment to raise this issue.
I wonder if he beats his dog?

This thread had been last posted in almost a full year ago, and was only ressurected now because of YOUR post above. So the only unkind person for raising the issue at this particular time is YOU!!! YOU chose this particular time to ressurect this thread, NO ONE ELSE! So if anyone is being unkind it is YOU.

Hahaha, you`ve got to laugh at the shot in the foot stupidity of some people.