Islamic Banking

[rubbery]

Well I'm new to this, I voted BNP and proud of it...

If you bank with Llloyds then take a look at this... my friends are closing their accounts now.

NEWS LINK An overdraft? That'll be £200 at Lloyds TSB (but only £15 if you're a Muslim) | Mail Online

[Opinionated]

Welcome to the forum rubbery, why not introduce yourself here and we can welcome you formally!

[Syph]

Welcome rubbery!

Well I'm new to this, I voted BNP and proud of it...

If you bank with Llloyds then take a look at this... my friends are closing their accounts now.

This is another failed attempt to integrate muslims. If they want to bank in the UK then they must abide by UK standards which are Christian standards. They must be charged for the privilege of expecting us to integrate their culture.

[SussexWithLove]

These are the first steps of a break-away state in the UK. This isnt an attempt to integrate Islamic culture with British culture, all it does is further push them apart.

If we allow any part of Sharia law in the country we are basically destroying everything this country stands for and weeing on the graves of those who died for it.

This 3rd world backwards ideology should have no place in Britain. One day you have Sharia bank accounts then next you'll have the stoning of women.

What will happen when, god forbid, the Sharia followers don t get want they want? Riots? Maybe a break-away state, the Islamic Republic of Bedfordshire? Thats got a nice ring to it.

Neo what do you think? Surely you wont let this country turn into a fascist Islamic state? You hate fascists!

[Patriot1]

Our government is trying so hard to not to upset anyone and prove that they're mutli-cultural. Well in a sense, they are, because they're allowing for all these different cultures to exist independantly without any consideration for the impacts on our own. Attempts to encourage intergration into our society seem to be non-existant.

First it's little things like this, then as Sussex stated there will be a break away state. The ball is already in motion.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100004840/extremists-call-for-caliphate-in-londonistan/

Muslim extremists call for Caliphate in London - CCFON.org - Christian Concern For Our Nation

For anyone who doesn't know what the above articles are about, a caliphate is union of muslims under Islamic law which will mke all non-muslims second class citizens.

[Patriot1]

Oh and an extra thought, the more exceptions and perks we give to immigrants the less likely they are to intergrate into our society and hold our beliefs.

Like post office manager Mr. Khan who refused to serve a mother of a soldier in Afghanistan because of where he was serving.

Home of The Green Arrow

Does that sound British to you?

[fubar]

Oh and an extra thought, the more exceptions and perks we give to immigrants the less likely they are to intergrate into our society and hold our beliefs.

Like post office manager Mr. Khan who refused to serve a mother of a soldier in Afghanistan because of where he was serving.

Home of The Green Arrow

Does that sound British to you?

You all need to see this film clip if you think were in trouble now this will only confirm it but god help us if this happened in this country as far as the banking system ie:TSB are trying to grab as much money as thay can by any anway thay can its call desperation as we say it's not the point though is it.

Any muslim can have a bank account in any bank even if it payes interest all thay do is give there money to a charity of there choice and and thay break no religious rules one more thing thats been kept quiet its that the Muslim already have there own banking system in this country and have had for years taking billions out of this country each week and what makes it worse is the government know all about it. How do i know this because i used to live near one not that long ago.

And to confirm this was the case i asked a Muslim neighbour and without hessatation he told me it was a bank He was very proud of the fact and even went on to say that wherever you find a mosque you find a Muslim bank. hope this is help full ?

YouTube - Islam 4 UK - March in London

The devil in the spelling

[Neo2012]

According to Islam, charging or receiving interest is wrong, so some banks (including Lloyds) have developed Muslim frielndly accounts that aren't in conflict with that religion. It's simple supply and demand really. They're not only open to Muslims, anyone can open one, however, as they end up being less beneficial than other accounts onyl a fool would do so.

It also worth noting Christianity condemns the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity. So if YOU are realy as true to british christian culture as you claim, will any of you be taking one of these accounts?

[FactOrFiction]

There's nothing wrong with this at all.

Products are tailored to different groups of people all the time. This is the market at work. Muslims want bank accounts that they are morally okay with using? Banks will make them. Supply/Demand.

It's not religious discrimination. Anyone can open this account, regardless of spiritual orientation (haha, that's a funny phrase. new PC?)
The name is just to advertise the fact that it is in line with Islamic belief so it is fine for them to use.
It doesn't give you any interest, and the charges are done another way. It's another product with different technical specs than anyone can use which is marketed at a religious group.

[Midas]

There's nothing wrong with this at all.

Products are tailored to different groups of people all the time. This is the market at work. Muslims want bank accounts that they are morally okay with using? Banks will make them. Supply/Demand.

It's not religious discrimination. Anyone can open this account, regardless of spiritual orientation (haha, that's a funny phrase. new PC?)
The name is just to advertise the fact that it is in line with Islamic belief so it is fine for them to use.
It doesn't give you any interest, and the charges are done another way. It's another product with different technical specs than anyone can use which is marketed at a religious group.

I agree with you entirely, it's simply a different way of packaging and marketing a bank account, aimed at a specific market segment.

People who put some racially oriented significance to it are simply looking for excuses, nothing more.

[fubar]

There's nothing wrong with this at all.

Products are tailored to different groups of people all the time. This is the market at work. Muslims want bank accounts that they are morally okay with using? Banks will make them. Supply/Demand.

It's not religious discrimination. Anyone can open this account, regardless of spiritual orientation (haha, that's a funny phrase. new PC?)
The name is just to advertise the fact that it is in line with Islamic belief so it is fine for them to use.
It doesn't give you any interest, and the charges are done another way. It's another product with different technical specs than anyone can use which is marketed at a religious group.

Yes your both quite right Supply/demand and all that but as i said befor why should a Muslim put his money into a English bank when his money is allready in a Muslim bank it's a cynical ploy to try an appease the Muslims to bank with them and that is all it is A MONEY MAKING PLOY

[FactOrFiction]

Yes your both quite right Supply/demand and all that but as i said befor why should a Muslim put his money into a English bank when his money is allready in a Muslim bank it's a cynical ploy to try an appease the Muslims to bank with them and that is all it is A MONEY MAKING PLOY

WHAT!?

A bank is trying to make money!?!?!?!!?

[Patriot1]

According to Islam, charging or receiving interest is wrong

What if Brits were to move to Pakistan and open an account and demand interest on their accounts?

[fubar]

WHAT!?

A bank is trying to make money!?!?!?!!? Ithink i already
covered that one?!?!?!?!!!!!

The Muslims have ther own banking system already in this country why would thay need another one Although i thought it was illegal so the government must have changed the banking laws without telling us. Must have missed that one.

[FactOrFiction]

What if Brits were to move to Pakistan and open an account and demand interest on their accounts?

That's fallacious. Muslims aren't demanding anything. According to their beliefs they choose only to use banking accounts with certain features. Lloyds sees this large untapped target market and chooses to create a product that they can use. Unless it's against Pakistan's law (just as the Islamic Account is not against UK law) then I'm pretty sure you could find an account there that paid interest.

The Muslims have ther own banking system already in this country why would thay need another one Although i thought it was illegal so the government must have changed the banking laws without telling us. Must have missed that one.

Competition? There's loads of banks in England offering current accounts. Why so many? Competition. Capitalism. There's nothing wrong with that.

What is (or was) illegal?

[fubar]

What if Brits were to move to Pakistan and open an account and demand interest on their accounts?

If you know of o brit who has is he a brit Muslim or if not he has to abide by there laws Muslim Banking law and Muslim religion to>
just a pointer I know some Muslims who have a normal bank account Too but most don't Read my other thread properly

[DTE]

I used to work in finance at HSBC and they offered a product just like this over 2 years ago. There's no difference in terms of charges (as said below in this thread) its just the means by which the charges are paid. Still, good to see the people who's job it is at the Mail to distort information against Muslims haven't fell victim to the recession.

Just to be clear, this what the rest of the story states.

If a Muslim customer who has insufficient funds in the account tries to make a payment, it is blocked and a 'return item fee' is charged.
However, on some Islamic accounts such a payment is authorised and an 'unplanned overdraft fee' of £15 is then levied.
The bank says this is a management fee, not a payment of interest, so does not contradict Sharia law.
Meanwhile, customers with standard current accounts who go into the red by at least £100 without authorisation are hit with an 'unplanned overdraft fee' of £20 a day for a maximum of ten days. This could mean a customer has to pay £200 in one month.
The Islamic account is available to all customers at Lloyds TSB. In theory, anyone who does not need a permanent overdraft facility could switch to this account to avoid being hit by interest charges for going into the red.
The disparity between the two accounts emerged after the bank sent its customers a booklet this month explaining its charges.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0Ox2PzdRr

Hmmmn, but thats not what the headline leads you to believe...not like the Mail is it?

[fubar]

I used to work in finance at HSBC and they offered a product just like this over 2 years ago. There's no difference in terms of charges (as said below in this thread) its just the means by which the charges are paid. Still, good to see the people who's job it is at the Mail to distort information against Muslims haven't fell victim to the recession.

as banking is coverned by Muslim/sharia law and the Legal system and civil law/common law. Sharia is the body of islamic religious lawDo you get it now or do i have to repeat it again???

[LA]

why am I not surprised to hear Neo defend this?

However, DrE can you explain to me how it is no different? I am just not seeing it.

[DTE]

Well LA, in terms of applying for finance, whereas a lapsed Catholic such as myself would pay interest on say a loan for a car, my Muslim neighbour, lets call him Dave, will pay only the money owed every month, and then the total of what the interest would be in one lump sum at the end. Thats just one example, there are loads of ways of doing it, it basically consists of making Dave pay interest without actually calling it that.

[LA]

Well LA, in terms of applying for finance, whereas a lapsed Catholic such as myself would pay interest on say a loan for a car, my Muslim neighbour, lets call him Dave, will pay only the money owed every month, and then the total of what the interest would be in one lump sum at the end. Thats just one example, there are loads of ways of doing it, it basically consists of making Dave pay interest without actually calling it that.

Ahh fair enough
Cheers

[fubar]

Well LA, in terms of applying for finance, whereas a lapsed Catholic such as myself would pay interest on say a loan for a car, my Muslim neighbour, lets call him Dave, will pay only the money owed every month, and then the total of what the interest would be in one lump sum at the end. Thats just one example, there are loads of ways of doing it, it basically consists of making Dave pay interest without actually calling it that.

extra as in lump sum added on in place of interest so he would'nt pay interest mmmmmmm yes i see now

The devil in the spelling
Non so blind that cannot see

[Patriot1]

The only issue I now see in this, is that if they are able to find a way to change the rules on accounts to please a minority then they should have also applied it to their regular accounts too.

Since the whole banking system is going through court as we speak over interest rates and charging people.

[fubar]

The only issue I now see in this, is that if they are able to find a way to change the rules on accounts to please a minority then they should have also applied it to their regular accounts too.

Since the whole banking system is going through court as we speak over interest rates and charging people.

the problem is in the wording no interest thay do pay extra say over a longer term IE: say we ask for a loan of 15,000.00 we pay 15,000.00 plus interest if thay ask for the same it could dealt in a different way the bank buys the a car for 15,000.00 then adds the interest then sell the car for say 16,500.00 with profit and no penaltes for late payment thay will ask for security though. the problem is more to do with the fact that the banking system is sharia law is ther legal system is ther civil law is common law is THE BODY OF ISLAMIC RELIGIOUS LAW . wonder what you work out from that??

The devil in the spelling
Non so blind that cannot see

[DC]

It does seem to be just a money making scheme, targeting a particular demographic. They seem to be doing something that the Medici Family did when they founded modern Banking in the Renaissance, unable to charge interest because of Christian rules, they called it a management fee that adjusted depending on how much money was loaned.

My concern is that this could spread into other sectors of the financial world, with specific companies running only under Sharia Law, serving only Muslims, or even worse an expectation by Muslims that they should have a Sharia option available.

[FactOrFiction]

It does seem to be just a money making scheme, targeting a particular demographic. They seem to be doing something that the Medici Family did when they founded modern Banking in the Renaissance, unable to charge interest because of Christian rules, they called it a management fee that adjusted depending on how much money was loaned.

My concern is that this could spread into other sectors of the financial world, with specific companies running only under Sharia Law, serving only Muslims, or even worse an expectation by Muslims that they should have a Sharia option available.

I'd like to compare this to kosher or halal food. It's a product aimed at a specific demographic based on religion. What is the problem if more companies produce the same product? Or if a company is formed that only sells that product? Or that the demographic becomes used to having that product available? You're really making an issue out of nothing here

[DC]

I'd like to compare this to kosher or halal food. It's a product aimed at a specific demographic based on religion. What is the problem if more companies produce the same product? Or if a company is formed that only sells that product? Or that the demographic becomes used to having that product available? You're really making an issue out of nothing here

But those companies and products were created to serve the purposes of one demographic, what this is is an existing company with existing policies adjusting to meet the needs of a growing demographic. Now this may not seem like much now, but what is important is that they have changed to adhere to Sharia law, at least partially, my concern is that as the Islamic demographic grows in number and power, will all banks be required to offer this kind of account? will it one day be required by law that banks and other financial institutions be required to provide a Sharia option for Muslims? Will it expand out into other business facets, such as private schools changing their curriculum to adhere to Sharia law, or at least offer a Sharia alternative, in order to stay competitive? Will every business be forced to offer a 'multicultural' alternative for minorities? We're already seeing it in the police with new Muslim and Sikh police officers provided to deal specifically with those demographics.

[FactOrFiction]

But those companies and products were created to serve the purposes of one demographic, what this is is an existing company with existing policies adjusting to meet the needs of a growing demographic. Now this may not seem like much now, but what is important is that they have changed to adhere to Sharia law, at least partially, my concern is that as the Islamic demographic grows in number and power, will all banks be required to offer this kind of account? will it one day be required by law that banks and other financial institutions be required to provide a Sharia option for Muslims? Will it expand out into other business facets, such as private schools changing their curriculum to adhere to Sharia law, or at least offer a Sharia alternative, in order to stay competitive? Will every business be forced to offer a 'multicultural' alternative for minorities? We're already seeing it in the police with new Muslim and Sikh police officers provided to deal specifically with those demographics.

The company is not changing it's policies. They made a new product, while the other products still remain available. So now multiple demographics have options. I seriously doubt it will ever be 'required'. This isn't government PC that people are so quick to whine about, this is capitalism noticing a new demographic and releasing a new product in order to profit off it.

Where aspects of sharia law are legal within our system, then it's up to whoever if they want to use it.
However, sharia law which is NOT legal within our system should never be tolerated.

[angelcountry]

But those companies and products were created to serve the purposes of one demographic, what this is is an existing company with existing policies adjusting to meet the needs of a growing demographic. Now this may not seem like much now, but what is important is that they have changed to adhere to Sharia law, at least partially, my concern is that as the Islamic demographic grows in number and power, will all banks be required to offer this kind of account? will it one day be required by law that banks and other financial institutions be required to provide a Sharia option for Muslims? Will it expand out into other business facets, such as private schools changing their curriculum to adhere to Sharia law, or at least offer a Sharia alternative, in order to stay competitive? Will every business be forced to offer a 'multicultural' alternative for minorities? We're already seeing it in the police with new Muslim and Sikh police officers provided to deal specifically with those demographics.

I wish we have what you wrote in ireland ?

Furthermore, i did realize that nothing the muslim introduce that's not always subject to critizm often, again i think it's somewhat rigid to suggest to my bank and credit card company that, o.k look i am a muslim we dont pay interest on loan and all the rest of the sort, you get a bite from them really, the only thing you can actually avail of on loan in the country is free payment protection which is optional in every country banking, but interest is not negotiable.

My priority questions now is that, can a muslim in ireland or elsewhere in europe or beyond'' avail of islamic banking ?

Zakari Ramadhana.

[DC]

Yes but this 'product' is just the beginning of what could be a wave of 'Sharia friendly' products. We'll have once system for Muslims and one for non-Muslims, now while those systems may be the same, it's the principle which is offensive. Furthermore with Muslims having such a high growth rate, and many (40%) wanting Sharia law, they'll soon be enough that they can democratically change the system. This new product could be indicative of things to come, first commercially, and then possibly legislative.

[Neo2012]

m

What if Brits were to move to Pakistan and open an account and demand interest on their accounts?

You're british, why aren't you faithfull to your culture, and take up this account?

[Patriot1]

m
You're british, why aren't you faithfull to your culture, and take up this account?

I dont understand your question.

[Neo2012]

I dont understand your question.

It also worth noting Christianity condemns the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity. So if YOU are realy as true to british christian culture as you claim, you should be taking one of these accounts.

[Patriot1]

It also worth noting Christianity condemns the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity. So if YOU are realy as true to british christian culture as you claim, you should be taking one of these accounts.

Yes Christianity is Britain's religion. 72% of people in the last censuc identified themselves as Christian, which raises the first question: why wasn't this account target at the Christian majority?

Secondly there are varying degrees of faith. For example there are many levels of Orthadoxicity within the Jewish faith. This means some are more strict in others. This is also the case with Islam. My friend's dad who came over when my friend was 6 from Pakistan used to smoke.

Therefore this may be the case with Christianity, as it also says in the bible that Christians shouldn't eat Shellfish. However as the majority of Christians are not as strict then they make exceptions.

Although I was Christened I consider myself an atheist, however as we are living in a Christian country I do not go out of my way to force my religous views (or lack of) onto anyone else. My mum is somewhat faithful so I do not object to her celebrating christmas and I don't object the lovely Sunday lunch she often makes me.

[angelcountry]

Yes but this 'product' is just the beginning of what could be a wave of 'Sharia friendly' products. We'll have once system for Muslims and one for non-Muslims, now while those systems may be the same, it's the principle which is offensive. Furthermore with Muslims having such a high growth rate, and many (40%) wanting Sharia law, they'll soon be enough that they can democratically change the system. This new product could be indicative of things to come, first commercially, and then possibly legislative.

I am absolutely lost with your statement on the inter alia, please be a bit more chronological Dude ?

Your story is like a person that follows rasulu lai son (named musaab) and the mother told him to desist but migrated to another country with abu talib(the uncle of rasulu lai) having faced a lot of victimisation and lot of attacks from the pagans of makkah in those days, but they finally find a home dont they ? allah knows best.

[LA]

It also worth noting Christianity condemns the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity. So if YOU are realy as true to british christian culture as you claim, you should be taking one of these accounts.

I believe Anglicanism does not say any such thing.
Britains established religion is Anglicanism.

[FactOrFiction]

Yes but this 'product' is just the beginning of what could be a wave of 'Sharia friendly' products. We'll have once system for Muslims and one for non-Muslims, now while those systems may be the same, it's the principle which is offensive. Furthermore with Muslims having such a high growth rate, and many (40%) wanting Sharia law, they'll soon be enough that they can democratically change the system. This new product could be indicative of things to come, first commercially, and then possibly legislative.

The commercial side of things there isn't an issue with. It's your point about future legislative changes that I agree with here. The aspects of sharia law which are illegal here should stay that way, and I oppose any changes to this emphatically. The law must be defended against the past.

[JacquesMagique]

I agree with you entirely, it's simply a different way of packaging and marketing a bank account, aimed at a specific market segment.

People who put some racially oriented significance to it are simply looking for excuses, nothing more.

Something we can agree on!

It's worth noting that you don't even need proof of being a Muslim to get this account. Furthermore, it's really not beneficial to have this account to have this account anyway (in a financial sense).

Oh and of course you can get interest paying accounts in Pakistan, not everybody in Pakistan lives under Sharia law, they have a largely secular constitution...
They even have a central bank which regulates interest rates

[FactOrFiction]

It's worth noting that you don't even need proof of being a Muslim to get this account.

Of course you don't, that would be religious discrimination. It says openly in the account information that it's open to anyone of any spiritual orientation.

Furthermore, it's really not beneficial to have this account to have this account anyway (in a financial sense).

not that interest rates are very beneficial at all these days

[Neo2012]

Yes Christianity is Britain's religion. 72% of people in the last censuc identified themselves as Christian, which raises the first question: why wasn't this account target at the Christian majority?

Secondly there are varying degrees of faith. For example there are many levels of Orthadoxicity within the Jewish faith. This means some are more strict in others. This is also the case with Islam. My friend's dad who came over when my friend was 6 from Pakistan used to smoke.

Therefore this may be the case with Christianity, as it also says in the bible that Christians shouldn't eat Shellfish. However as the majority of Christians are not as strict then they make exceptions.

Although I was Christened I consider myself an atheist, however as we are living in a Christian country I do not go out of my way to force my religous views (or lack of) onto anyone else. My mum is somewhat faithful so I do not object to her celebrating christmas and I don't object the lovely Sunday lunch she often makes me.

you are disgracefully ignoring your culture and your history. I don't know how you can call yourself a patriot.

[Neo2012]

Something we can agree on!

It's worth noting that you don't even need proof of being a Muslim to get this account. Furthermore, it's really not beneficial to have this account to have this account anyway (in a financial sense).

Oh and of course you can get interest paying accounts in Pakistan, not everybody in Pakistan lives under Sharia law, they have a largely secular constitution...
They even have a central bank which regulates interest rates

No No No!!!
Every single Muslim in the world is a zealot, and they want to take over the world, I tells ya, they want to take over the world.

[LA]

you are disgracefully ignoring your culture and your history. I don't know how you can call yourself a patriot.

Depends on what kind of religion he follows.
Technically, the most truest patriot is a Druid.
However, England's established religion is Anglicanism.

They are like Christian-lite - Really, you can be a homosexual bible burning atheist and they still don't really care...

[obviously they do, I am just trying to make the point that for Christians they are very liberal].

[Neo2012]

Depends on what kind of religion he follows.
Technically, the most truest patriot is a Druid.
However, England's established religion is Anglicanism.

They are like Christian-lite - Really, you can be a homosexual bible burning atheist and they still don't really care...

[obviously they do, I am just trying to make the point that for Christians they are very liberal].

Nien, nien nien, there iz only ein true Englant culture. And saint Gerorge vas nicht a palastinian.

[LA]

Nien, nien nien, there iz only ein true Englant culture. And saint Gerorge vas nicht a palastinian.

Die Engländer sind nicht Deutsch!

Warum sind Sie mit der Eingabe in deutscher?

St George is the patron Saint for a lot of countries.
Saint George - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Midas]

Can we please get back on topic here......

[LA]

Can we please get back on topic here......

Allerdings!

I am not sure about this...
Seems like a crap bank deal packaged with a name to grab the attention of a demographic.

It's like calling a bank account the Peter Andre express ISA or the Katie Price cosmetic account...
It's a load of nonsense

[SussexWithLove]

According to Islam, charging or receiving interest is wrong, so some banks (including Lloyds) have developed Muslim frielndly accounts that aren't in conflict with that religion. It's simple supply and demand really. They're not only open to Muslims, anyone can open one, however, as they end up being less beneficial than other accounts onyl a fool would do so.

It also worth noting Christianity condemns the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity. So if YOU are realy as true to british christian culture as you claim, will any of you be taking one of these accounts?

Neo, you are being very hypocritical. You state you are against Fascism then support Sharia, which is an Islamic fascist set of laws. You should be opposing ALL Sharia policy like you oppose all BNP polices.

Its the not charging of interest that is issue with some people. As most people don’t have money sitting in their bank collecting interest its not less beneficial at all.

How many people are going to think about opening a Sharia account if they aren’t Muslim? Will it be offered to non-Muslims when they visit the bank, I think not!

What happens when there is simple supply and demand for the stoning of women and the chopping off of hands for thieving?

[DC]

Wait...so is it ok to brand products according to race and culture? SO can we have black clothes and white clothes? Can a company make cars that designed 'just for black people'? How about we make houses that are designed for Asians? Or better yet, let's make them feel really at home we should make whole suburbs especially for each race and culture in our country! What a great idea!

[Midas]

Wait...so is it ok to brand products according to race and culture? SO can we have black clothes and white clothes? Can a company make cars that designed 'just for black people'? How about we make houses that are designed for Asians? Or better yet, let's make them feel really at home we should make whole suburbs especially for each race and culture in our country! What a great idea!

There's a major difference between branding products in the way you describe to simply modifying an existing product, in this case a bank account, so that it has a greater appeal to people of a different religion. It's not specifically creating a new product solely for the use of a minority group, as in your example of different clothes for black and white people, it's simply adapting an existing product so it has more appeal to a specific group. Don't forget no-interest accounts are already available elsewhere in the banking system and have been for years, all that's new is that it's a UK High Street bank which is offering them, not one of the many Islamic banks already here.

[DC]

I just find it offensive that we can label products as 'Black' or 'White' or 'Muslim' it's an extremely slippery slope.