with BNP Snouts In The Troughs This Is No Time To Sqabble!

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

with BNP Snouts In The Troughs This Is No Time To Sqabble! But how very predictable - almost like their chums in the racist anti Jewish EFD Party group in the EU run by Farage for profit as UKIP's EU leader.

BNP official Mark Collett questioned over alleged threat to kill Nick Griffin

Police arrest publicity director accused by BNP leadership of plotting 'palace coup'

* Adam Gabbatt and Matthew Taylor
* guardian.co.uk, Sunday 4 April 2010 13.52 BST
*

Nick Griffin and Mark Collett after winning a court case in 2006

Nick Griffin and Mark Collett after winning a court case in 2006. Photograph: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images

The BNP has been thrown into turmoil weeks ahead of the general election after a senior party member was arrested for allegedly threatening to kill Nick Griffin.



Key party officials have been summoned to a meeting tomorrow to discuss "urgent organisational matters" after Griffin and colleagues made statements to police resulting in the BNP's publicity director, Mark Collett, being detained on Thursday.



Collett, 29, had been due to contest Labour MP David Blunkett's Sheffield Brightside seat in the election but has been stripped of his position within the party which accused him of conspiring to launch a "palace coup" against Griffin.



The BNP alerted members to the crisis on Wednesday. In a message to party organisers, the party said its internal security team had been investigating "alleged financial irregularities" relating to leaflets and publications, the "leaking on to the internet of sensitive party information" and "feeding lies to certain anti-BNP blog sites" for several months.

"As a result of this investigation, a very serious matter has been uncovered," the memo said. "Earlier this week, the police were made aware of very serious allegations potentially affecting the personal safety of party chairman Nick Griffin MEP and senior management/fundraising consultant James Dowson. Formal statements have now been made to the police, including by Mr Griffin."



The message said it had been necessary to act immediately "to ensure the safety of those at risk".



The timing of the row is a further blow to the BNP as it looks to build on success in last year's European elections by winning its first seat in the House of Commons. Last month the party's membership policy was ruled to be discriminatory, despite the BNP having removed a whites-only clause in February.



The BNP said it was unable to provide further details of the alleged threat to Griffin – who is standing against Labour's Margaret Hodge in Barking and Dagenham – and Dowson for fear of prejudicing legal proceedings.



The memo continued: "Since political, as opposed to allegedly criminal, conspiracies are not illegal, we are able to say that Mark Collett was conspiring with a small clique of other party officials to launch a 'palace coup' against our twice democratically elected party leader, Nick Griffin, and that in order to create the artificial climate of disillusionment necessary for this to stand any chance of success, lies and unfounded rumours have been spread, and were planned to be spread much further."

Officers asked Collett to attend a Humberside police station last week. A spokeswoman said: "A 29-year-old man was arrested on Thursday on suspicion of making threats to kill. He was interviewed by detectives at Humberside police and he has been released on bail pending further inquiries. The investigation was initiated as a result of a complaint by the member of the BNP."



BNP regional organisers and key officials have been asked to attend an "urgent briefing meeting" tomorrow to discuss the events of the last few days and the party's future plans.



A spokesman for the anti-fascist organisation Searchlight said rows over finance, particularly Griffin's European expenses, had led to the conflict. Griffin and Andrew Brons were elected to European parliament in June 2009 but have been criticised in recent weeks for failing to publish details of their spending.



"Nick Griffin is constantly claiming he is the leader of a moderate, non-violent organisation," the Searchlight spokesman said.



"It is difficult to see how he can square that assertion with his statement to the police that his own head of publicity has been plotting to kill him."



The Guardian attempted to contact senior figures within the British National party, but none were available for comment.



I do not believe that there is EVER a morally acceptable contingency where a vote for The BNP is acceptable.



A vote for The BNP may well be the lesser of two evils but I consider it a vote for evil on any occasion.

To view the original article CLICK HERE

NEVER FORGET that The BNP has failed/refused to repudiate its association with White Supremacist Extremists and the murder of some 4-5,000 mostly young men BECAUSE they are coloured - including an elected Black Mayor January 2008 & a Mexican American 2009. Similarly they have failed to renounce their past association with extreme anti Judaism.

To VOTE BNP is to Vote for Evil.

for more on the BNP CLICK HERE

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Neo2012]

It has been alleged by collette and others, that Griffin is using the party to enrich himself.

http://www.youtube.com/user/bnpinfo#p/u/6/gMU-IaV9eJg

[Barry]

Totally unsubstantiated YouTube video.
What about Tony Blair and his £20 million richer for goodness sake!

[DC]

It all seems very vague. And another thing that that article brings up is the recent ruling of the BNP membership criteria being discriminatory, that was hogwash.

[Neo2012]

Totally unsubstantiated YouTube video.
What about Tony Blair and his £20 million richer for goodness sake!

Don't understand your point.

The youtube guy was a BNP councillor, explaining why he and his wife, also a BNP councillor, have become disillusioned with Griffin. Collette and many other current members, and many members who have left in recent years, makes the same point. So why are these INSIDER's expose's irrelevant? Why? Do you believe all these insider's are lying?

[Neo2012]

It all seems very vague. And another thing that that article brings up is the recent ruling of the BNP membership criteria being discriminatory, that was hogwash.

First of all, the way that was applied to party bureaucrats employment, broke employment legislation for many many years, without court action. Agreed?

[DC]

First of all, the way that was applied to party bureaucrats employment, broke employment legislation for many many years, without court action. Agreed?

I don't understand, how did it discriminate employment?

[Neo2012]

I don't understand, how did it discriminate employment?

sorry mate, I know we have spoke before about this, but I can't remember how much you know about this topic, racial discrimination in employment. So I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, do you understand how you are not allowed to discriminate based upon race when you are employing people? Do you agree with not being able to discriminate in employment based upon race, or is that "hogwash" too?

As I understand it, originally the equal opportunities commission (whatever they're called), observed that you had to be a party member to take up employment with the BNP, and that you were excluded from being a member based upon race, so therefore also excluded from being employed based upon your race.

Also, if I went to join the conservative/labour/ club/party, and they refused me admission/membership on the basis that I am black, a woman, a man, or my religious beliefs, they would be breaking the law. The same is true for any golf club, football club etc. Wasn't there are also a case recently where a bed and breakfast owner got into trouble for discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation?

The question for me, is why has a fascist organization been allowed to get away with this for so long, when other organisations are not been allowed to? Why special treatment for neo Nazis?

[Neo2012]

On topic, more bnp x- members, same allegations Ex BNP Members Bringing you the truth !!: Soldiers Off The Streets - A Front For BNP Fundraising.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

DC, you should quit whilst you are behind, as the left has shown us, discrimination is a terrible thing: BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Labour opts for women-only short-lists..........

[Neo2012]

From Mark Collett's Youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/FIFAPLYR1

"Please leave comments of support.Nick Griffin and others(i will not name at the moment due to legal reasons)Have been skimming large amounts of cash from the money allocated to the party for their own personal bank accounts.
I am being victimized because i had the guts to stand up for the BNP members who are all asking the same question.(where is the money)Yes i was arrested but soon released without charge because i am innocent and the police know this.
The Meeting they had about me was a farce and more like a kangaroo court.
I am soon to reveal all.Including the mystery surrounding the EDL.
Also it must be worth noting that i was released without charge but an investigation (not against me) is underway concerning this matter. "

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

From Mark Collett's Youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/FIFAPLYR1

"Please leave comments of support.Nick Griffin and others(i will not name at the moment due to legal reasons)Have been skimming large amounts of cash from the money allocated to the party for their own personal bank accounts.
I am being victimized because i had the guts to stand up for the BNP members who are all asking the same question.(where is the money)Yes i was arrested but soon released without charge because i am innocent and the police know this.
The Meeting they had about me was a farce and more like a kangaroo court.
I am soon to reveal all.Including the mystery surrounding the EDL.
Also it must be worth noting that i was released without charge but an investigation (not against me) is underway concerning this matter. "

Shocking state of affairs, such disgraceful antics that could only occur in a morally bankrupt political party...... 'Cash for peerages' row as Blair honours top donors - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

[Neo2012]

Shocking state of affairs, such disgraceful antics that could only occur in a morally bankrupt political party...... 'Cash for peerages' row as Blair honours top donors - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

lol, why are you scared to discuss the bnp?

[DTE]

lol, why are you scared to discuss the bnp?

I think he's just pointing out the BNP are only as corrupt as Labour. Or Blair. I'm not sure. I bet Blair is not a neo-nazi though.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

lol, why are you scared to discuss the bnp?

I think its because if I discuss them you'll discover my secret crush on Nick Griffin, what a hunk

[Neo2012]

I think its because if I discuss them you'll discover my secret crush on Nick Griffin, what a hunk

I think he's just pointing out the BNP are only as corrupt as Labour. Or Blair. I'm not sure. I bet Blair is not a neo-nazi though.

Yep, BUT.

1. That is the point of the posts. The BNP go on and on about political/financial corruption, and they are no better than new labour, the Tories etc.. In fact the accusations by the bnp members are worse.
2. I have no problem with people attacking new labour, Tory political and financial 'corruption', in the Tory and NL forums. Hijacking every thread in the BNP forum is out of order.

Lastly, on the points he has made, I can only assume he is being deliberately stupid, as there is a clear legal/moral distinction between positive 1 class discrimination and the negative 2 class discrimination of the BNP.

[DC]

sorry mate, I know we have spoke before about this, but I can't remember how much you know about this topic, racial discrimination in employment. So I'm not being sarcastic when I ask, do you understand how you are not allowed to discriminate based upon race when you are employing people? Do you agree with not being able to discriminate in employment based upon race, or is that "hogwash" too?

As I understand it, originally the equal opportunities commission (whatever they're called), observed that you had to be a party member to take up employment with the BNP, and that you were excluded from being a member based upon race, so therefore also excluded from being employed based upon your race.

Also, if I went to join the conservative/labour/ club/party, and they refused me admission/membership on the basis that I am black, a woman, a man, or my religious beliefs, they would be breaking the law. The same is true for any golf club, football club etc. Wasn't there are also a case recently where a bed and breakfast owner got into trouble for discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation?

The question for me, is why has a fascist organization been allowed to get away with this for so long, when other organisations are not been allowed to? Why special treatment for neo Nazis?

I understand that, that was the first finding by the Equal opportunities commission, the second was made after the BNP had changed their constitution to allow non-whites in, and that was hogwash.

[Neo2012]

I understand that, that was the first finding by the Equal opportunities commission, the second was made after the BNP had changed their constitution to allow non-whites in, and that was hogwash.

don't know what you mean, so start a thread on that topic, if you want.

[DC]

don't know what you mean, so start a thread on that topic, if you want.

It doesn't really warrant it. Basically what happened is that BNP changed their constitution so that basically anybody could become a member provided they supported the BNP's out of Europe policy and the promotion of indigenous culture. Somehow this was found to be discriminatory, and now there are no membership criteria at all. There was no reason for this change other than to allow anti-BNP members to join and either act as spies, or to simply flood the party and outvote actual members making the party defunct.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

Yep, BUT.

1. That is the point of the posts. The BNP go on and on about political/financial corruption, and they are no better than new labour, the Tories etc.. In fact the accusations by the bnp members are worse.
2. I have no problem with people attacking new labour, Tory political and financial 'corruption', in the Tory and NL forums. Hijacking every thread in the BNP forum is out of order.

1. Oh I think the BNP have a long way to go before they achieve the heady and dizzying levels of corrpution (no need for 'corruption', plain old corruption is good and accurate enough), greed and self-service attained by Labour and the Conservatives. Still, given them time and I'm sure the BNP will catch up.

2. Quite. Democracy and free speech are matters those on the left are usually squeemish about and have difficulties with, particularly when others express views that disagree with their own: this is consistent with the political views and general attitude of left-wingers, with the control of others being central to their own political philosphy. Of course if you believe that I or others have hijacked every thread concerning the BNP, you should lodge a complaint with an OP, well, that of stop being so precious. It could be worse, each thread on the BNP could end up discussing how Britain's main party of the left had taken us into an illegal war, resulted in the deaths of 10,000s of innocent civillians, lost us the respect of much of the world and have been the worse foreign policy decision / disaster since before Suez. Imagine just how upsetting that would be for you.

Lastly, on the points he has made, I can only assume he is being deliberately stupid, as there is a clear legal/moral distinction between positive 1 class discrimination and the negative 2 class discrimination of the BNP.

I apologise for my foolish comment, I had mistaken you for someone with sufficient intelligence and intellect to comprehend that regardless as to the intention, discrimination discriminates against someone and there is no real moral distinction regarding the end result. Clearly I was wrong, and I apologise for mistaking you for being someone with the cognitive ability to understand the point I was making.

Of course the other point I was making, and I am very sorry that you were unable to comprehend this, related to the hypocrisy (usually of those on the left) of those who attack the BNP for their discrimination yet stay remarkably silent concerning other forms of discrimination, notably that by the wonderful Labour party who believe that poor little women can only get into Parliament if nasty horrid men are excluded from the selection lists.

[Neo2012]

1. Oh I think the BNP have a long way to go before they achieve the heady and dizzying levels of corrpution (no need for 'corruption', plain old corruption is good and accurate enough), greed and self-service attained by Labour and the Conservatives. Still, given them time and I'm sure the BNP will catch up.

Yup, their claims to be different on financial corruption are lies.

. Quite. Democracy and free speech are matters those on the left are usually squeemish about and have difficulties with, particularly when others express views that disagree with their own: this is consistent with the political views and general attitude of left-wingers, with the control of others being central to their own political philosphy. Of course if you believe that I or others have hijacked every thread concerning the BNP, you should lodge a complaint with an OP, well, that of stop being so precious. It could be worse, each thread on the BNP could end up discussing how Britain's main party of the left had taken us into an illegal war, resulted in the deaths of 10,000s of innocent civillians, lost us the respect of much of the world and have been the worse foreign policy decision / disaster since before Suez. Imagine just how upsetting that would be for you.

I agree with many of these comments, they are just tediously off topic.

I apologise for my foolish comment, I had mistaken you for someone with sufficient intelligence and intellect to comprehend that regardless as to the intention, discrimination discriminates against someone and there is no real moral distinction regarding the end result. Clearly I was wrong, and I apologise for mistaking you for being someone with the cognitive ability to understand the point I was making.

Off topic, and wrong.

Of course the other point I was making, and I am very sorry that you were unable to comprehend this, related to the hypocrisy (usually of those on the left) of those who attack the BNP for their discrimination yet stay remarkably silent concerning other forms of discrimination, notably that by the wonderful Labour party who believe that poor little women can only get into Parliament if nasty horrid men are excluded from the selection lists.

Off topic, and wrong.

Interesting topics, but nothing to do with bnp. Start a thread, in a more oppropriate general forum, and I will woop your arse!

[Neo2012]

It doesn't really warrant it. Basically what happened is that BNP changed their constitution so that basically anybody could become a member provided they supported the BNP's out of Europe policy and the promotion of indigenous culture. Somehow this was found to be discriminatory, and now there are no membership criteria at all. There was no reason for this change other than to allow anti-BNP members to join and either act as spies, or to simply flood the party and outvote actual members making the party defunct.

Dont think that is right. You should start that thread, it might be interesting.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

Yup, their claims to be different on financial corruption are lies.

So, one member of the BNP makes seemingly unsupported allegations and immediately you accept them as factual. So, you're against the BNP (and from the BNP area of the forum obsessed might be a better term) yet eager to accept a BNP source as constituting the absolute truth.....interesting, intellectually flawed and somewhat hypocritical of course, but interesting.

Of course the other point I was making, and I am very sorry that you were unable to comprehend this, related to the hypocrisy (usually of those on the left) of those who attack the BNP for their discrimination yet stay remarkably silent concerning other forms of discrimination, notably that by the wonderful Labour party who believe that poor little women can only get into Parliament if nasty horrid men are excluded from the selection lists. Off topic, and wrong.

Interesting topics, but nothing to do with bnp. Start a thread, in a more oppropriate general forum, and I will woop your arse!

Sorry, I'll write this v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y so you can understand this: you attack the BNP for being racist, discriminatory, etc etc.... I point out, in response to one of your somewhat mean-spirited little comments, that other political parties engaging in discriminate d I don't see you or others who appear to share your politics making accusations, indeed you actually imply that some forms of discrimination are good. Apparently you believe this has nothing do to with the BNP or your attitute towards them....well there you go, if you don't see the relevance thats your problem.

As for whooping my arse, ha ha, in your dreams and I'm almost offended that you think you would stand even half a chance.

[Neo2012]

So, one member of the BNP makes seemingly unsupported allegations and immediately you accept them as factual. So, you're against the BNP (and from the BNP area of the forum obsessed might be a better term) yet eager to accept a BNP source as constituting the absolute truth.....interesting, intellectually flawed and somewhat hypocritical of course, but interesting.

No mate, there are 2 sources in this thread, and I have already talked about several others. There were the lies about attacks on the BNP website calling for outragous donations. There were the accusations of a scamming money from homeless soldiers. Allegations about work done at his home, funded by the party. Then there was the scam about the bnp 'battle bus'. loads other accusations, all made by BNP members, but you steadfastly refuse to discuss the POSSIBILITY of Griffins financial corruption.

, I'll write this v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y so you can understand this: you attack the BNP for being racist, discriminatory, etc etc.... I point out, in response to one of your somewhat mean-spirited little comments, that other political parties engaging in discriminate d I don't see you or others who appear to share your politics making accusations, indeed you actually imply that some forms of discrimination are good. Apparently you believe this has nothing do to with the BNP or your attitute towards them....well there you go, if you don't see the relevance thats your problem.

My point is, I refuse to discuss your obtuse comments, because ther're nowt to do with the POSSIBILITY of Griffins financial corruption, THE topic of a that thread. They are derailment, only allowed because of a congruence of political proclivities.

Are you seriously saying financial improprieties in the mainstream parties, excuse financial improprieties and fascism in the BNP?

As for whooping my arse, ha ha, in your dreams and I'm almost offended that you think you would stand even half a chance.

Start the thread then....... Bet you don't.

[Neo2012]

How confusing is it to be a member of the BNP? Just over a week ago, the world was informed that a plot to unseat the leader of the party had been discovered and that a taped telephone conversation between the party's treasurer David Hannam and the its former head of publicity Mark Collett revealed threats of murder and assault and talk of fraud and falsification of accounts, including 'skimming' off printing bills for the party.

Last Monday, party organisers met up and were treated to a ten minute snippet of the tape that apparently included the threats and non-specific mention of the fraud that had taken place, though the whole tape was held back until a committee declared on its authenticity. This committee, led by taxi driver and world-renowned tape authenticity expert [sarcasm] Michael Simpkins, declared that the tape was genuine and, we gather, the shortened version was given to the police.

Why the shortened version? Because the complete tape was almost an hour and a half of Killer Collett slagging off party leader Nick Griffin and fundraiser Jim Dowson, along with a multitude of accusations of theft and complicity in a massive and persistent fraud on the membership of the British National Party. These allegations were, we're told, so detailed that the police would have had at least enough information to begin investigating the party's finances - and that would have been disastrous for Griffin and the party itself.

According to information we have received, the police are not prepared to take any action based upon a tape that has clearly been tampered with, leaving the police with nothing to investigate.

Given that the party is anxious to hide any sign of wrongdoing by its officers - particularly by its leader - for fear that a whole financial can of worms would be opened up, the only thing to do was, in the words of one of our correspondents, 'to take that wanker Collett back at least until after the elections'. Thus, we're informed that Collett is back in the BNP fold though on a much-reduced salary and only on condition that he keeps his mouth firmly shut in future.

It's hard to know what Collett will be doing in the party after his reinstatement because it seems that the design of leaflets has been handed over to the detestable Paul Golding, a Griffin-acolyte who appears to be much-loathed in the party, while printing has been shifted to - surprise - one of Jim Dowson's many companies, leaving Paedo-boy to sit around twiddling his thumbs.

Nevertheless, the man who, just a week ago, was accused of conspiracy to unseat Porky Griffin as leader of the BNP and was said to have uttered threats to kill him, is apparently back because the party leadership is terrified of what havoc he could wreak by exposing the corruption that saturates the party from top to bottom.

It could only happen in the BNP

[Neo2012]

This is what a discussion of the topic of thread looks like;

Quote:
Originally Posted by
what is he right on? His narrative and yours to some extent is that somehow griffin is under a different type of pressure than leaders of other political parties. Between the pair of you list financial issues when actually they have more money than ever contributing to the fact that they can afford the deposits for a record number of candidates. The where's the money gone Nick is actually a cry from those dislodged or displaced in the attempt to modernise.

so you say. but i bet you're not au fait with ng's bank accounts. the anti-sleaze rhetoric from the bnp sits somewhat ill with griffin thrusting his snout firmly into the trough in brussels. the bnp's failure to submit adequate accounts year after year - and never on time - doesn't suggest there's much in the way of internal financial control mechanisms: and collett's sacking, allegedly in part for financial impropriety, makes me at least wonder how long this had been going on. and if collett's at it, who else? arthur kemp at excalibur? has griffin himself been sticking his hand in the till?

as to the amount of money the bnp has, it bloody should have a fighting fund after all the begging emails griffin sends out. however, many of these have been for specific things, notably lawyers. i suspect that the bnp's lack of financial controls is due to at least a portion of money donated for one thing being used for something quite different.

but griffin is under quite different pressures, pressures you don't seem to recognise. for example, most other political parties have something approaching internal democracy. there is none within the bnp, certainly not at leadership level. appointments are made, seemingly on the basis of loyalty to griffin and not on the basis of ability or election. simply put, there are few mechanisms by which discontent within the party can be released before it gets to a stage at which people try something on or leave. it is effectively impossible for even a senior and long-standing member of the bnp to realistically challenge griffin, something which was carefully installed after he became leader. the bnp now is very much griffin's creation, it is very much a personal party, and it is very much what the black hand would call a 'my way or the highway' party.

Quote:
Turnover of members is cited but that affects most political parties especially those who demand a level of activism from its members.But that in itself doesn't seem to be affecting their activism in the key areas they have targeted.
as vp pointed out, this is due to mobilisation of activists from other areas to parachute into target constituencies. it is one of the successes of the bnp that they have proved able to maintain a regular mobilisation of their members to target barking and dagenham. since the start of this year members from across london and essex have been directed to barking and dagenham in a bid to appear as a large and powerful local force. any success in barking and dagenham will be reflected by poorer results elsewhere from where activists have been drawn to big up the party.

Quote:
As a leader Griffin has managed to see off a number of leadership challenges ( some real and some rather nearer to being wishful thinking) managed to see off so called gaffes like the polish spitfire, the membership changes to comply with EHRC and all the issues re accounts not being filed etc etc.
yes. but griffin's play to the membership of the bnp is constantly that the party is under attack from the evil lib-lab-con. it's this use of a constant state of siege which has helped maintain party discipline. but it relies on an equally constant stream of victories, and if the stream of victories dries up then it might see griffin face rather greater criticism from the membership than has yet been the case.

Quote:
The BNP terrorist charges have been seen before , Copeland included and are handled with the familiar shrug of 'no longer a member' and increasingly will be batted off by pointing to Islamic terrorism.
until one of the bnp types puts something in action.

Quote:
I really can't understand why the 1979 NF scenario is being advanced as an option perhaps you can expand on why ?.
i said 'should what happened to the nf in 1979 happen to the bnp this time round, the chances of a splintering are i feel high.' i didn't say it was likely or probable, and it's quite clear that i meant a dismal showing for the bnp could lead to a splintering. what do YOU think would happen in the event of a pisspoor bnp vote?

Quote:
bu then you both get through all this crisis crisis crisis stuff by either concluding that the party will stabilise because of its electoral support and or speculating that the BNP membership will hit 30,000.
i said that if the bnp managed to hold onto their members a bit longer then the bnp would grow: with the bnp being effectively 1 in 1 out, they're obviously not going to grow in a hurry. but i think that the bnp is an inherently unstable party, that it will never be stable. it is seen by many people as an 'anti-party party' and there is the possibility that should it achieve greater electoral success it will paradoxically no longer be as attractive: a revolutionary party in positions of authority is perhaps not as attractive as one which is seen as fighting against the odds. there is also the danger to the party that it only has a finite constituency, seen by one observer in a recent study of the bnp as - much simplified - ill-educated middle-aged men in the north. there is imo the possibility of limited growth for the party, but i stress limited - this won't be a mass party for a range of factors which set limits to its growth.

Quote:
That's why I find both your contributions confused.

Freddies point about how their activist base is worthy of more discussion, essentially cadre-ization , sustainability of active branches is key and I think that they will substantially increase their vote from 2005 . The only counter scenario I can see is that some of their potential support may be squeezed if the election becomes a Tory/Labour issue but my own feeling is that there is plenty of room for parties with local roots to do well , both on the liberal left ie the Greens in Brighton and potentially Norwich and on the right like the BNP.

So how many votes do you think the BNP will get?
while i don't doubt the bnp will garner many thousands of votes, an analysis of the candidates put forwards shows some of the limitations to which i've referred. candidates like tess culnane and jeremy wotherspoon aren't bright young hopes for the party. they've been about for many years. people can be activists, and doubtless many bnp activists are happy with their role. but it is very hard for someone to come into the party now and compete with the likes of 70s nf candidate wotherspoon or south african spook arthur kemp. the upper echelons of the party are filled with people from the past, people like lance stewart, former metropolitan policeman and apparently former national secretary for the 1960s bnp. as one observer of the bnp concluded, Quote:
For the foreseeable future, a split within the BNP seems unlikely, since there would appear to be no clear contender to challenge Griffin's leadership, or unite dissenters within a new party; if such an individual should emerge, this situation may well change.
the activist base may currently be content with the way things are: but the turbulent history of the british extreme right shows that there's a lot always going on below the surface.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

No mate, there are 2 sources in this thread, and I have already talked about several others. There were the lies about attacks on the BNP website calling for outragous donations. There were the accusations of a scamming money from homeless soldiers. Allegations about work done at his home, funded by the party. Then there was the scam about the bnp 'battle bus'. loads other accusations, all made by BNP members, but you steadfastly refuse to discuss the POSSIBILITY of Griffins financial corruption.

Yes, and as others have commented before, your sources appear far from compelling and do seem to come primarily from the BNP itself: are you seriously relying on the BNP? To be honest, I find your position a little curious: you consistently attack and deride the BNP, probably quite rightly in many cases, yet rather eager to quote from BNP sources when it suits - am I wrong?

Also I do not refuse to discuss the possiblity of Griffin's alleged financial corruption. Personally I find him an odious and bigotted little man and consider BNP members as at best misguided, thus I am quite prepared to believe that Griffin is likely to be as corrupt as all the others. However, to seek to examine and discuss Griffin's financial dealings without a degree of context (namely corruption by the mainstream political parties) is rather shortsighted in my view given that it ignores the elephant in the room: that pretty much all political parties in England are on nodding terms with financial malpractice.

My point is, I refuse to discuss your obtuse comments, because ther're nowt to do with the POSSIBILITY of Griffins financial corruption, THE topic of a that thread. They are derailment, only allowed because of a congruence of political proclivities.

Are you seriously saying financial improprieties in the mainstream parties, excuse financial improprieties and fascism in the BNP?

Nah, I suspect that you just want to bash the BNP and aren't too keen on the BNP's activities being considered in the broader context of British politics.Also I'm not saying that the BNP's financial matters should or can be excused, but to concentrate solely on one political party given the widespread corruption and abuse of public funds (not to mention the arrogance and contempt shown towards the taxpaying public by the politicians concerned) is not particularly helpful to any discussion concerning standards in public life or the financial probity or good conduct of and by political parties.

Just an observation here, but I don't believe that the BNP is a fascist party, racist yes, fascist no.

As for whooping my arse, ha ha, in your dreams and I'm almost offended that you think you would stand even half a chance. Start the thread then....... Bet you don't.

What would you like the thread to be about then?

[Neo2012]

Yes, and as others have commented before, your sources appear far from compelling and do seem to come primarily from the BNP itself: are you seriously relying on the BNP? To be honest, I find your position a little curious: you consistently attack and deride the BNP, probably quite rightly in many cases, yet rather eager to quote from BNP sources when it suits - am I wrong?

Also I do not refuse to discuss the possiblity of Griffin's alleged financial corruption. Personally I find him an odious and bigotted little man and consider BNP members as at best misguided, thus I am quite prepared to believe that Griffin is likely to be as corrupt as all the others. However, to seek to examine and discuss Griffin's financial dealings without a degree of context (namely corruption by the mainstream political parties) is rather shortsighted in my view given that it ignores the elephant in the room: that pretty much all political parties in England are on nodding terms with financial malpractice.



Nah, I suspect that you just want to bash the BNP and aren't too keen on the BNP's activities being considered in the broader context of British politics.Also I'm not saying that the BNP's financial matters should or can be excused, but to concentrate solely on one political party given the widespread corruption and abuse of public funds (not to mention the arrogance and contempt shown towards the taxpaying public by the politicians concerned) is not particularly helpful to any discussion concerning standards in public life or the financial probity or good conduct of and by political parties.

Just an observation here, but I don't believe that the BNP is a fascist party, racist yes, fascist no.



What would you like the thread to be about then?

You say "Also I do not refuse to discuss the possiblity of Griffin's alleged financial corruption. " your very first post was;

DC, you should quit whilst you are behind, as the left has shown us, discrimination is a terrible thing: BBC NEWS | UK | Politics | Labour opts for women-only short-lists..........

I cannot find one post where you contribute to a discussion of the POSSIBILITY of Griffin's Financial corruption. Can you?
　

Nah, I suspect that you just want to bash the BNP and aren't too keen on the BNP's activities being considered in the broader context of British politics.Also I'm not saying that the BNP's financial matters should or can be excused, but to concentrate solely on one political party given the widespread corruption and abuse of public funds (not to mention the arrogance and contempt shown towards the taxpaying public by the politicians concerned) is not particularly helpful to any discussion concerning standards in public life or the financial probity or good conduct of and by political parties.

Do you caveat every attack upon the mainstream parties with a derogatory reference to the BNP?

Just an observation here, but I don't believe that the BNP is a fascist party, racist yes, fascist no.

at last, vaguely on topic. lol feel free to produce evidence Griffin isn't merely making neo Nazism, as he said "saleable". I would love to be convinced.
　

What would you like the thread to be about then?

lol, don't do it mate, this will be embarrassing for you.

I apologise for my foolish comment, I had mistaken you for someone with sufficient intelligence and intellect to comprehend that regardless as to the intention, discrimination discriminates against someone and there is no real moral distinction regarding the end result. Clearly I was wrong, and I apologise for mistaking you for being someone with the cognitive ability to understand the point I was making.

Of course the other point I was making, and I am very sorry that you were unable to comprehend this, related to the hypocrisy (usually of those on the left) of those who attack the BNP for their discrimination yet stay remarkably silent concerning other forms of discrimination, notably that by the wonderful Labour party who believe that poor little women can only get into Parliament if nasty horrid men are excluded from the selection lists.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

You say "Also I do not refuse to discuss the possiblity of Griffin's alleged financial corruption. " your very first post was;

Really, I thought I was adding context, silly old me.


Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley
Nah, I suspect that you just want to bash the BNP and aren't too keen on the BNP's activities being considered in the broader context of British politics.Also I'm not saying that the BNP's financial matters should or can be excused, but to concentrate solely on one political party given the widespread corruption and abuse of public funds (not to mention the arrogance and contempt shown towards the taxpaying public by the politicians concerned) is not particularly helpful to any discussion concerning standards in public life or the financial probity or good conduct of and by political parties.

Do you caveat every attack upon the mainstream parties with a derogatory reference to the BNP?

If they were involved in the cash for honours or more recent corruption scandals, then yes I would include them.

Originally Posted by The Untalented Mr Ripley
Just an observation here, but I don't believe that the BNP is a fascist party, racist yes, fascist no.
at last, vaguely on topic. lol feel free to produce evidence Griffin isn't merely making neo Nazism, as he said "saleable". I would love to be convinced.

Oh dear, now you're off topic. I think my comments regarding Griffin are pretty clear and personally I couldn't really give a monkey's about the BNP or Griffin, but they do serve a purpose: the scare the mainstream parties into listening to and acting upon the wishes of the electorate - something they have failed to do over many years.

lol, don't do it mate, this will be embarrassing for you.

Are you going all chicken on me Neo...shame on you!

[Neo2012]

If they were involved in the cash for honours or more recent corruption scandals, then yes I would include them.

precisely! Where has the accusations against Griffin been made labour party members about gorden brown. No Where. By your own admission, there was no compulsion for me to make any such caveat. Owned. LOL

Are you going all chicken on me Neo...shame on you!

You spoke too soon, your arse has already been whooped. http://www.politic.co.uk/bnp-party-f...tml#post104406

ps. Mate, don' be offended by my banter, I'm only joshing you.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

precisely! Where has the accusations against Griffin been made labour party members about gorden brown. No Where. By your own admission, there was no compulsion for me to make any such caveat. Owned. LOL

Nice try, but nah.

You spoke too soon, your arse has already been whooped. Why are racist Labour so scared to debate with the BNP?

I haven't looked at that thread yet, but I'm sitting on a soft cushion just in case!

[Neo2012]

Nice try, but nah.

You know it, just not man enough to admit.

You know what, I think I am the only man on the Internet, who admits when he's wrong. Where's the saint smiley?

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

You know it, just not man enough to admit.

You know what, I think I am the only man on the Internet, who admits when he's wrong. Where's the saint smiley?

I'm wearing it already!