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Please don't hate us

This is a discussion on Please don't hate us within the Politics on War and Conflicts Forum forums, part of the Religion, Relations, Disputes and Conflicts Forum category; "Prominent British Muslims are being recruited to star in a government-backed advertising campaign aimed at preventing people in Pakistan from ...

  1. #1
    Albion 69 Guest

    Please don't hate us

    "Prominent British Muslims are being recruited to star in a government-backed advertising campaign aimed at preventing people in Pakistan from engaging in extremist activity, the Guardian has learned.
    The three-month public relations offensive, called I Am the West, consists of television commercials and high-profile events in regions such as Peshawar and Mirpur. It is being funded by the Foreign Office which is paying up to £400,000 for a pilot project.
    Starring in the first three adverts are Sadiq Khan, the communities minister, Jehangir Malik, the UK manager of Islamic Relief, English cricketer Moeen Ali and the Lord Mayor of Birmingham, Chaudry Abdul Rashid, who is from Mirpur. Mirpuris represent around 70% of Britain's Pakistani population.
    According to a project synopsis, the target audience is 15-25-year-old males who are "less than well-educated and worldly wise, but potentially susceptible to extremist doctrines". If successful, it will be implemented in Egypt, Yemen and Indonesia.
    The original proposal to the Foreign Office came from Deen International, an organisation set up specifically for the project and headed by Khurshid Ahmed, chair of the British Muslim Forum....

    The central theme of I Am the West is to assert that there is no contradiction in being a Muslim and being British. The synopsis says: "Muslims are equally proud of being both and certainly espouse the belief that violent extremism is not propagated in their name."
    The campaign has four key aims: to ensure Pakistanis realise the west is not "anti-Islamic", that British society is not "anti-Islam", to demonstrate the extent to which Muslims are integrated into British society and to stimulate and facilitate "constructive debate" on the compatibility of liberal and Muslim values."

    Top Muslims advertise British way of life on Pakistan TV | World news | The Guardian

    Good idea to win the battle for hearts and minds or a naive gimmicky waste of tax payers money ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albion 69 View Post
    Top Muslims advertise British way of life on Pakistan TV | World news | The Guardian

    Good idea to win the battle for hearts and minds or a naive gimmicky waste of tax payers money ?
    Little bit of both I'd say, but nothing else seems to be working so lets give it a go! If we really believe there is a battle for "hearts and minds" then I would think that a Google Page Ranking exercise would be a good place to start at least, on the other hand it's a lot of money especially at present, perhaps it could be funded privately?
    "The object of universities is not to make skilful lawyers, physicians or engineers. It is to make capable and cultivated human beings." John Stewart Mill

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    LA
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    The word deterrence springs to mind.

    If we were to severely punish those convicted of terrorism that would deter some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal Authoritarian View Post
    If we were to severely punish those convicted of terrorism that would deter some.
    If we were to convict them before "severely punnishing" them it would be a start.
    All you'd be doing LA is creating martyrs and adding fuel to the fire!
    "The object of universities is not to make skilful lawyers, physicians or engineers. It is to make capable and cultivated human beings." John Stewart Mill

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    LA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opinionated74 View Post
    If we were to convict them before "severely punnishing" them it would be a start.
    All you'd be doing LA is creating martyrs and adding fuel to the fire!
    So lets not punish terrorism.
    Lets send out a message saying all terrorists will not be punished for their actions...

    There are two choices, punish terrorism or dont. I personally would like to see terrorists punished for their crimes.

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    As long as the commercials can be made effective enough it's a good idea. The budget is pretty small as these things go, and if it has even a small effect I think it's money well spent. The young and disillusioned are the prime recruits for any extreme group, so if they have a better understanding of the realities of life and thought in the west, maybe they'll not so readily believe all they're being told by terrorist groups.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis

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    I don't see anything wrong with this at all, as long as the people are allowed to say what they think, and not have it handed to them on a paper before the cameras roll. With all thats going on at the moment 400k is peanuts.
    Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time.
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  8. #8
    serenity1 Guest

    what a waste

    It is absurd to think that this Google Page Ranking rubbish will change or soften the minds of hardliners. They are that way for a reason, they believe in what they are doing, terroism is part and parcel of the game. Punishment and deterrents are what is needed.

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    Exclamation

    Please don't revive old threads like this unless you've got some substantially new information to add to the discussion - forum rule 2.8.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal Authoritarian View Post
    The word deterrence springs to mind.

    If we were to severely punish those convicted of terrorism that would deter some.

    HELLO - ANYONE IN THERE - HELLO.............???


    'severely punishing' is exactly what invokes terrorism to begin with

    cart horse - horse cart

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    LA
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginetorque View Post
    HELLO - ANYONE IN THERE - HELLO.............???


    'severely punishing' is exactly what invokes terrorism to begin with

    cart horse - horse cart
    No...
    Terrorism comes first
    then we punish the terrorists

    We dont just punish a terrorist then they become a terrorist...
    that doesnt make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enginetorque View Post
    HELLO - ANYONE IN THERE - HELLO.............???


    'severely punishing' is exactly what invokes terrorism to begin with

    cart horse - horse cart
    Tell that to the families of the people who died due to 9/11
    Tell it to the people of Lockerbie
    Tell it to the thousands of innocent people who have suffered loss of loved ones by the actions of a people who consider us Najis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberal Authoritarian View Post
    No...
    Terrorism comes first
    then we punish the terrorists

    We dont just punish a terrorist then they become a terrorist...
    that doesnt make sense.
    I disagree with you there; in order for there to be terrorists, there has to be something fundamentally wrong, in some people's perception, to cause them to resort to terrorism. Something has to start the whole ball rolling, and all too frequently these days it's a mixture of fundamental Islamic beliefs being aggravated by western, mainly American, interests - usually military and to a lesser degree commercial - in Islamic countries, against the wishes of certain sectors of the local community.
    British likes this.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    I disagree with you there; in order for there to be terrorists, there has to be something fundamentally wrong, in some people's perception, to cause them to resort to terrorism. Something has to start the whole ball rolling, and all too frequently these days it's a mixture of fundamental Islamic beliefs being aggravated by western, mainly American, interests - usually military and to a lesser degree commercial - in Islamic countries, against the wishes of certain sectors of the local community.
    Couldn't agree more.
    So looking at the atlas. Looking at the size of our wee land. Why do they feel the need to be here finding "fundamentally wrong" things. I think it is obvious that Islam is not compatible with western ways. I don't have a problem with the people. Not at all. It is their view on us against their jihad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by British View Post
    Couldn't agree more.
    So looking at the atlas. Looking at the size of our wee land. Why do they feel the need to be here finding "fundamentally wrong" things. I think it is obvious that Islam is not compatible with western ways. I don't have a problem with the people. Not at all. It is their view on us against their jihad.
    You defend Christianity, Christianity and Islam are very similar. They believe in the same "god" for goodness sakes.

    So how is christianity compatible with western society and Islam isn't?
    Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
    Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!


    Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691 View Post
    You defend Christianity, Christianity and Islam are very similar. They believe in the same "god" for goodness sakes.

    So how is christianity compatible with western society and Islam isn't?
    Chistianity... The clue is in the name. Christ-ianity. Follower of Christ. Watch YouTube, watch what Muslims think of Christians.
    Christians DON'T follow Muhammed. Muslims DON'T follow Christ.

    Head... Clowds...

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    Quote Originally Posted by British View Post
    Chistianity... The clue is in the name. Christ-ianity. Follower of Christ. Watch YouTube, watch what Muslims think of Christians.
    Christians DON'T follow Muhammed. Muslims DON'T follow Christ.

    Head... Clowds...
    Wrong,

    Christians and Muslims both follow the teachings of Christ.


    The difference is that Christians believe that Christ is the son of god,

    Muslims believe that he was a prophet chosen by god.

    Oh SNAP!!!
    Why can't Jesus eat M&Ms?
    Because they keep falling through the holes in his hands!


    Jesus may love you, but he won't respect you in the morning.



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    Quote Originally Posted by British View Post
    Chistianity... The clue is in the name. Christ-ianity. Follower of Christ. Watch YouTube, watch what Muslims think of Christians.
    Christians DON'T follow Muhammed. Muslims DON'T follow Christ.

    Head... Clowds...
    There are 25 prophets mentioned in the Qur'an - Adam : Idris (Enoch) : Nuh (Noah) : Hud : Saleh : Ibrahim (Abraham) : Isma'il (Ishmael) : Ishaq (Isaac) : Lut (Lot) : Ya'qub (Jacob) : Yousef (Joseph) : Shu'aib : Ayyub (Job) : Musa (Moses) : Harun (Aaron) : Dhu'l-kifl (Ezekiel) : Dawud (David) : Sulaiman (Solomon) : Ilias (Elias) : Al-Yasa (Elisha) : Yunus (Jonah) : Zakariyya (Zechariah) : Yahya (John) : 'Isa (Jesus) & Muhammad - all but a couple of whom are also biblical characters, including Jesus. But given that Islam developed out of Christianity, which itself developed out of Judaism, it's not surprising really......
    Kiwi 1691 likes this.
    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised 'for the good of its victims' may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us 'for our own good' will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midas View Post
    But given that Islam developed out of Christianity, which itself developed out of Judaism, it's not surprising really......
    A not so slight correction, Muslims believe Muhammad to be a direct decendent of Abraham through the son he had with Hagar, Ishamael. Thus Islam should be considered more rightly to have it's roots in Judaism. Muhammad may have come up with the idea of Islam in or around 610 but he placed it's origin, in revelations from God/Allah, with Ishmael. If we "assume" these characters to be truly historical and not mythical, then Issac and Ishmael were half brothers and the point of the split from Judaism.
    Last edited by Don; 30-11-2009 at 05:39 AM. Reason: slight addition
    I wonder why the things that should be so simple, so natural... like loving someone and letting them see into your heart... should require so much courage?

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