Oh, I thought western society was about freedom of choice...

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Oh, I thought western society was about freedom of choice...

It is, so long as you don't openly flout customs of the place you live. In the west you don't walk around the street, go shopping etc with a balaclava on your head.

I seem to be employing this argument again and again but it is relevant:

Is it accepted in strict (or even moderate) Islamic countries to sunbathe topless?

Why is it only in the west that dilution of culture is allowed to take place as we attempt to set an example of freedom etc - it doesn't encourage traditional muslims to embrace our freedoms just to abuse our tolerance!

Also as a large percentage of communication is via non verbal means, particularly facial expressions is it right for teachers and those working in customer facing roles or the reverse for those dealing with members of society wearing the Burqa to take away this form of communication?

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Oh, I thought western society was about freedom of choice...

Do you think it is the womens choice to wear a sack ?
No it is the idiots controlling them.You are talking about a society that dosnt allow women out of the house,dosnt allow women to talk to men,dosnt allow women to basically do anything without the permission of her dominant male (father/brother/husband) A society that stones women to death ,beheads them,stabs them to death in the street for the crime of falling in love.

Freedom of choice ?

Live and let live, in my opinion. I don't give two hoots what they wear. But let's be honest, when you go to McDonalds and order your McMuslim burger made with 100% halal pork; you'd rather be greated by someone with a face. Well, I would, anyway.

Seriously though, it's an opressive ritual for those poor woman. It should be outlawed in western society.

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Oh, I thought western society was about freedom of choice...

Your so naive JacquesMagique. Didn't you realise that in Western society you are free to do anything you want, as long as you conform and do exactly what everyone else does.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Your so naive JacquesMagique. Didn't you realise that in Western society you are free to do anything you want, as long as you conform and do exactly what everyone else does.

What, you mean like the freedom to wear a cross or have Christian plays in schools... Or maybe the freedom to see the face of who you are talking to?

Originally Posted by British

What, you mean like the freedom to wear a cross or have Christian plays in schools... Or maybe the freedom to see the face of who you are talking to?

I personally find Christian symbols and stories offensive, but in a free society they have the right to wear and say what they want.

Funny it is fine for Christians to cause offence but not Muslims.

Originally Posted by British

Seriously though, it's an opressive ritual for those poor woman. It should be outlawed in western society.

*Puts on teachers hat*

Some of you guys may not realise this but the Burqa has nothing to do with Islam. It is cultural not religious. Traditionally it was worn to protect the people from the heat, and sand. Traditionally it was worn by men and women. It then sort of became adopted by some Muslims world wide, but there is noting in the Koran that says they have to wear them, that is a personal choice.

The minarets decision was disgusting, I never realised that the Swiss were so hateful and disgusting.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Funny it is fine for Christians to cause offence but not Muslims.

Funny, it's fine for Muslims to stone, murder rape children and blow up tube stations. They need to be loved and pampered. But damn a Christian to the fires of Hell if he so much as says that these things should never be implemented in Britain... Sharia Law.

Originally Posted by British

Funny, it's fine for Muslims to stone, murder rape children and blow up tube stations. They need to be loved and pampered. But damn a Christian to the fires of Hell if he so much as says that these things should never be implemented in Britain... Sharia Law.

But noone here ever said it was fine for Muslims to do any of those things.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

The minarets decision was disgusting, I never realised that the Swiss were so hateful and disgusting.

How was it hateful or disgusting?

Personally I admire the Swiss for 1)actually debating the issue 2) standing by their convictions and voting against the erection of buildings alien to the historic culture of their country.

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

But noone here ever said it was fine for Muslims to do any of those things.

Are you denying that that is common practice within Muslim society?

Originally Posted by British

Are you denying that that is common practice within Muslim society?

Probably. But regardless, that's pretty irrelevant to actually what I said.

Originally Posted by British

Are you denying that that is common practice within Muslim society?

Violence is no more prevalent in Muslim society than it is in any other societies.

Unless you have stats to say that it is??

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Violence is no more prevalent in Muslim society than it is in any other societies.

Unless you have stats to say that it is??

But their punishments are so extreme. They are behaving like they are in the medievel times. And they want to set up the Sharia law in full in this country.
When was the last time such brutal acts were used here in the name of justice?

Originally Posted by British

But their punishments are so extreme. They are behaving like they are in the medievel times. And they want to set up the Sharia law in full in this country.
When was the last time such brutal acts were used here in the name of justice?

Well the BNP are the only party i'm aware of who want to reintroduce corporal punishment..

Furthermore, only a minority of Muslims want Sharia implemented in Britain, and actually I think a minority of Islamic countries which have the more extreme aspects of Sharia.

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Well the BNP are the only party i'm aware of who want to reintroduce corporal punishment..

Furthermore, only a minority of Muslims want Sharia implemented in Britain, and actually I think a minority of Islamic countries which have the more extreme aspects of Sharia.

Corporal and capital doesn't have to be as brutal as theirs. Nor would it be so stupid as to stone to death the victim of a rape!

Only a minority?
Sharia law is their back bone!

Originally Posted by British

But their punishments are so extreme. They are behaving like they are in the medievel times. And they want to set up the Sharia law in full in this country.
When was the last time such brutal acts were used here in the name of justice?

Well it wasn't that long ago that capital punishment was used in the UK, and from what I have seen state-sponsored murder still has significant support in your country.

The USA classifies itself as christian and they execute many people, even if the evidence that caused their conviction is proven to be wrong.

Originally Posted by British

Only a minority?
Sharia law is their back bone!

See now you're just making assertions with no basis at all to back them up.

Originally Posted by British

Corporal and capital doesn't have to be as brutal as theirs. Nor would it be so stupid as to stone to death the victim of a rape!

Only a minority?
Sharia law is their back bone!

Stoning people to death is Jewish, so that is why it is in the bible and the Koran.

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Stoning people to death is Jewish, so that is why it is in the bible and the Koran.

And that's relevent because...?

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

See now you're just making assertions with no basis at all to back them up.

"Muslim or Islamic law, both civil and criminal justice as well as regulating individual conduct both personal and moral. The custom-based body of law based on the Quran and the religion of Islam. Because, by definition, Muslim states are theocracies, religious texts are law, the latter distinguished by Islam and Muslims in their application, as Sharia or Sharia law."

Just the first thing I linked to

Originally Posted by British

"Muslim or Islamic law, both civil and criminal justice as well as regulating individual conduct both personal and moral. The custom-based body of law based on the Quran and the religion of Islam. Because, by definition, Muslim states are theocracies, religious texts are law, the latter distinguished by Islam and Muslims in their application, as Sharia or Sharia law."

Just the first thing I linked to

i dont see a link..

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

i dont see a link..

Very sorry,
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

I personally find Christian symbols and stories offensive, but in a free society they have the right to wear and say what they want.

Funny it is fine for Christians to cause offence but not Muslims.

So it's fine to walk around with a balaclava on your head? Is that what you're saying?

*Puts on teachers hat*

Some of you guys may not realise this but the Burqa has nothing to do with Islam. It is cultural not religious. Traditionally it was worn to protect the people from the heat, and sand. Traditionally it was worn by men and women. It then sort of became adopted by some Muslims world wide, but there is noting in the Koran that says they have to wear them, that is a personal choice.

*Knocks off teachers hat*

While you're correct in that the Burqa existed prior to Islam, it has since been adopted by Islam as part of its 'modest dress' code.

"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss" Koran, 24:31

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Furthermore, only a minority of Muslims want Sharia implemented in Britain

40% was the statistic I saw LA quote.

Originally Posted by DCFGS3

40% was the statistic I saw LA quote.

40% being a minority..

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

40% being a minority..

It's still a significant minority though and thus is a worrying statistic (if it is correct)

Originally Posted by British

Very sorry,
Sharia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah yes, wikipedia, the font of all unbiased and accurate knowledge..

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

Ah yes, wikipedia, the font of all unbiased and accurate knowledge..

Another source probably as equally easy to dismiss:

Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations

Originally Posted by Tete123

Another source probably as equally easy to dismiss:

Islam: Governing Under Sharia - Council on Foreign Relations

To be fair, I didn't actually read what he posted in the first place, but now I have, I don't really see what point he is trying to make.

Originally Posted by JacquesMagique

To be fair, I didn't actually read what he posted in the first place, but now I have, I don't really see what point he is trying to make.

Okay I admit I am guilty of not reading the Wiki entry either!

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

I personally find Christian symbols and stories offensive, but in a free society they have the right to wear and say what they want.

Funny it is fine for Christians to cause offence but not Muslims.

The Burkha is not ofensive, nor is the person wearing it.

What is offensive(and devisive) is allowing a select group of people the right to cover their face in all environments often where others doing the same would be jailed.

WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I WALKED DOWN DOWNING ST WITH A BALACLAVA COVERING MY FACE?????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Originally Posted by Tete123

Okay I admit I am guilty of not reading the Wiki entry either!

sO YOU ARE JUST PLAYING YOUR GAME AGAIN ARE YOU!!!!!!!??????????????????

Originally Posted by pauli007001

sO YOU ARE JUST PLAYING YOUR GAME AGAIN ARE YOU!!!!!!!??????????????????

What are these games your obsessed with Pauli ?

Is it the game where you troll around the forum posting irrelevant messages aimed at drawing me into your sad little delusional world?

Nice to see that AFTER TWO SUPPOSEDLY SUCCESSFUL WORLD WARS, GOVERNMENT FASCISM IS STILL ALIVE IN EUROPE

Originally Posted by Citizen Smith

Nice to see that AFTER TWO SUPPOSEDLY SUCCESSFUL WORLD WARS, GOVERNMENT FASCISM IS STILL ALIVE IN EUROPE

So you're fine with people walking around the street with their faces covered?

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Well it wasn't that long ago that capital punishment was used in the UK, and from what I have seen state-sponsored murder still has significant support in your country.

The USA classifies itself as christian and they execute many people, even if the evidence that caused their conviction is proven to be wrong.

Many, define many?

The USA as a nation, to the best of my knowlege, whilst having a death penalty on the books hasnt to the best of my knowledge executed a single person in decades.
The USA also does not clasify itself as christian.In fact it quite specifically declares that there is a seperation of state and church.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Many, define many?

The USA as a nation, to the best of my knowlege, whilst having a death penalty on the books hasnt to the best of my knowledge executed a single person in decades.
The USA also does not clasify itself as christian.In fact it quite specifically declares that there is a seperation of state and church.

That'll be why they have "In God We Trust" on every last bit of currency.

Originally Posted by pauli007001

Many, define many?

The USA as a nation, to the best of my knowlege, whilst having a death penalty on the books hasnt to the best of my knowledge executed a single person in decades.
The USA also does not clasify itself as christian.In fact it quite specifically declares that there is a seperation of state and church.

The best of your knowledge has been found wanting again: U.S. Executions Since 1976

USA have executed 52 persons in 2009 alone.

Originally Posted by British

That'll be why they have "In God We Trust" on every last bit of currency.

A few might trust in God, but most trust in the money.
Tantal is probably an exception.
Oops a bit off topic.

The French should ban the burqa. Good thing to restrict people's freedoms, especially when it can be used to hide identity and commit crime.

Originally Posted by Tete123

The best of your knowledge has been found wanting again: U.S. Executions Since 1976

USA have executed 52 persons in 2009 alone.

Pauli meant that it is individual State's that carry out executions not the Federal government!

Originally Posted by Opinionated

Pauli meant that it is individual State's that carry out executions not the Federal government!

Maybe so, although isn't that a little convenient. The United States of America should be held accountable as a whole for any action that takes place within the borders of that land - thus while not actually carried out by the Federal government the executions are sanctioned by the Federal government and I hold them (the Federal government) as responsible as the individual states.

P.S Timothy McVeigh - June 11th 2001, Juan Raul Garza - June 19th 2001 and Louis Jones Jr - March 18th 2003 were all Federal cases and thus sanctioned and carried out by the United States of America - all within this decade! There are currently 53 people on the federal death row.

One could also interpret that women are freer wearing a Burka then western style clothing. They aren't sexualized by men all the time if they can't be seen. I think if it is there free choice to wear one it should be up to them. The idea that some are forced to wear it though is repugnant.

There has been a concerted attack on religion from the globalists , they are pushing their abortion and birth control agenda to curb population growth.

Well good for France. Muslim women must be now flocking hoping
they'll have a amount of individual Freedom, or at least a taste of
something.

I heard belgium now did to. There's now way the United State's will do
this because will have the Left come out immediately filing on 'prejudice'
or 'hate' against them or that we are being racist s***heads.