Evaluating God

**Syph** · 16-01-2010, 07:09 PM

I would like users here to submit their reasons for a belief in God for a discussion and evaluation of such beliefs.

I am an atheist but open to discussing the possibility of God's existence.

**Midas** · 16-01-2010, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Syphro

I would like users here to submit their reasons for a belief in God for a discussion and evaluation of such beliefs.

I am an atheist but open to discussing the possibility of God's existence.

I can think of many reasons why there isn't such a thing as a god, common sense and logic perhaps being the two which first come to mind, but for the life of me I can't think of a single reason as to why there is, or even might be, one!

The whole concept of a god is down to human ontology, the necessity of early and primitive mankind to attribute all the natural events around him to 'something'. He had no notion or concept of any of the forces of nature that we take for granted, so 'something' had to cause the sun to rise and set every day, the moon to do the same, the rain to fall and lightning to strike...... That 'something' was a 'god', a being that no-one could understand and who was imbued with mystical and all-encompassing powers.

A god is nothing more than an invention of man, something perpetuated over millennia by a religious hierarchy which uses the concept, and the superstitious nature and naivety of the majority of people, for no other reason than their own power, wealth and control. There is absolutely zero factual evidence of a god or anything remotely similar, and what so-called 'evidence' the religious produce to support their ideas is little more than a mixture of ancient lore, myth and legend, manipulated by the church leaders to maintain their aforementioned power and control.

**OneMInd** · 16-01-2010, 10:10 PM

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

**Midas** · 16-01-2010, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

I don't deny if you believe in something, especially where there's a community and a common belief involved, you can be happier, although that's far from being always the case. But why does that belief need to be in something supernatural where there's not even a shred of evidence for it? Why not believe in something tangible and constructive, the capacity of mankind to survive and prosper for example?

**JacquesMagique** · 16-01-2010, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

Belief isn't a choice.

Sure it would be great to believe in god, and fairies and Father Christmas...

**OneMInd** · 16-01-2010, 11:23 PM

Also, Jacques, I don't know if you can get into heaven on the basis of Pascal's wager?

Midas, nothing stops you believing in something tangible as well.

**Kiwi 1691** · 16-01-2010, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

So your say that Religious people are happier because they believe that if they don't devote their life to propping up the ego of some "god" they will spend all eternity in damnation. That makes little sense to me, especially when there is not a single piece of pair reviewed evidence to support the existence of any god.

**OneMInd** · 16-01-2010, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

So your say that Religious people are happier because they believe that if they don't devote their life to propping up the ego of some "god" they will spend all eternity in damnation. That makes little sense to me, especially when there is not a single piece of pair reviewed evidence to support the existence of any god.

I don't think that is how religious people view it though. Look at gospel singers, they hardly sing about damnation. I do, however, see your point.

**Kiwi 1691** · 16-01-2010, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

I don't think that is how religious people view it though. Look at gospel singers, they hardly sing about damnation. I do, however, see your point.

Plenty of priests do rather press the damnation issue.

**Midas** · 17-01-2010, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Plenty of priests do rather press the damnation issue.

I think you'll also find that plenty of priests, in particular those from smaller denominations who perhaps don't undergo the sort of training that say Roman Catholic or Anglican priests do, and don't understand much about the ways in which early Christian writings have been used (or perhaps misused might be a better word) by way of careful selection, rejection and adaptation in order to present the kind of overall image that 'the church' (in its widest sense) wants its followers to see. If anyone who preaches any religion doesn't know the history of their subject, they shouldn't be passing on incomplete, and perhaps worse, completely one-sided, versions to a generally very gullible and superstitious public who latch on to the words of many of these preachers as if they're true in every respect, often giving over considerable sums of money in order to try to 'buy their salvation'!

**Kiwi 1691** · 17-01-2010, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Midas

gullible and superstitious public who latch on to the words of many of these preachers as if they're true in every respect, often giving over considerable sums of money in order to try to 'buy their salvation'!

Yes.

One of the reasons behind Martin Luther breaking away from the Catholic church was the priests conning people out of money. Like making people pay considerable amounts to the church if they wanted their dead relatives to go to heaven, or the supposed relics that were sold on every street corner.

DC · 17-01-2010, 12:30 PM

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but unlike most people, when I do believe, I believe he's a tool. And if he does turn out to be real, I'm going to kill him.

**Barry** · 17-01-2010, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Kiwi 1691

Yes.

One of the reasons behind Martin Luther breaking away from the Catholic church was the priests conning people out of money. Like making people pay considerable amounts to the church if they wanted their dead relatives to go to heaven, or the supposed relics that were sold on every street corner.

Another good reason that I detest the Catholic Church empire.

**Syph** · 17-01-2010, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

I don't know if I would want to spend eternity worshipping a creator. Rebellion is delicious as the apple Adam ate.

If any God exists then we are merely accidental parasites feeding on his masterpiece.

**OneMInd** · 17-01-2010, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Syphro

I don't know if I would want to spend eternity worshipping a creator. Rebellion is delicious as the apple Adam ate.

If any God exists then we are merely accidental parasites feeding on his masterpiece.

Or maybe we are God. Accidental parasites or not we are still part of the OneMind that is god. - The universe experiencing itself subjectively as Bill Hicks once said

**fubar** · 17-01-2010, 11:33 PM

as you have the choice which one would you choose god ,socialism or somewhere in between, for me it would have to be somewhere in between where ever that may be??

**DTE** · 18-01-2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by OneMInd

If there is no God then fine nothing happens when we die, but if there and one is an atheist; then you go to hell.Best option is to believe. Also believers are often happier people

I know someone who is a catholic for this reason, he is self-described 'hedging his bets'. Not for me I'm afraid, nor am I convinced that believers are happier people per se, sure they may outwardly appear jolly, but like the fat bird at the club, I bet there's some torment going on underneath as they cry their way through a Ben & Jerrys. All belief systems based on mythical beings trade on guilt, pure and simple, in catholic terms we all have original sin for alleged God's sake!

**Syph** · 27-01-2010, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by DTE

I know someone who is a catholic for this reason, he is self-described 'hedging his bets'. Not for me I'm afraid, nor am I convinced that believers are happier people per se, sure they may outwardly appear jolly, but like the fat bird at the club, I bet there's some torment going on underneath as they cry their way through a Ben & Jerrys. All belief systems based on mythical beings trade on guilt, pure and simple, in catholic terms we all have original sin for alleged God's sake!

Yes definitely,

Pascal's wager is really no reason to believe in God as there are so many Gods.

**crazylilting** · 19-06-2010, 08:45 AM

How do you evaluate an unknown? Or something that has no tangible proof. I would guess we would measure it's impact? So where would we begin? The atrocities he has directly asked his followers to commit? Or the atrocities that his followers have committed in his name? Do we evaluate him by the violence he has waged? do we measure him by his conditional peaceful message? How would we evaluate him if he indeed does exist?