UKIP want to ban the Burqa

[LA]

IT has been reported that the United Kingdom Independence Party wishes to ban the burqa. Their justification for this action is down to matters of security, oppression and division. Lord Pearson of Rannoch has stated that the burqa conceals the identity of individuals and can be related to Islamic Terrorism, represents a divided society in Britain and can be used a tool of oppression for women of the Islamic faith.

This follows from action in France, where President Nicholas Sarkozy and his party; Union pour un Mouvement Populaire, UMP, is seeking the banning of the burqa in France.

Many have claimed that such a move is unBritish and very intolerant of the beliefs of these Islamic women, however, such a move would claim popular support in Britain and if put to a referendum would be passed with impressive results.


So, what do you guys think of this?

[Midas]

Do you have a source for this story LA?

I'm in two minds about this whole issue. On the one hand it's entirely up to individual women whether they choose to wear a burqa or not, but on the other hand the fact that Islam forces them to do so is wrong and against the principle of freedom of choice which we're supposed to have in this country. I do feel that to bring terrorism into it is a bit of a red herring though; how many female Islamic terrorists have there been throughout the whole of the EU (or men disguised as women behind a burqa come to that)? Not a single one as far as I know.

[Kiwi 1691]

That is repugnant. Another example of, you have the right to act and dress as you wish as long as you act and dress like everyone else.

[Kiwi 1691]

but on the other hand the fact that Islam forces them to do so is wrong and against the principle of freedom of choice which we're supposed to have in this country.

I presume you have an extract from the quran that says than women have to wear a burka to back this up?

[Midas]

I presume you have an extract from the quran that says than women have to wear a burka to back this up?

From Quran-Islam.org - True Islam

"What does The Quran say about the Burqa?

First of all it depends upon who you ask. There is disagreement in Islamic circles as to what extent Quran advocates the wearing of the Burqa. However, The Quran does not specifically mention the Burqa or tell women to wear such extremely confining clothes. Instead, it instructs men and women to dress and behave modestly in society (24:31), which the Ulama or “Scholars” do agree upon. Modern day Muslims base their authority regarding the Burqa on the Hadith or collected traditions of life in the days of Prophet Muhammad. It is important to note here that these “collected traditions” have no place in Islam, (please see relevant articles on this site). Most followers of these traditions know little of their origins or authenticity. For the thousands of traditions attributed to the Prophet only one bears notable credibility:

“Do not write down anything I say except the Quran. Whoever has written something other than Quran let him destroy it.” Reported by Ahmed Vol 1 page 171, also The Sahih of Muslim.

With contradiction and confused thrown up by the hadith and “scholars of Islam” let us consider what Quran, the word of God, says on the topic of a dress code.

For women; Cover your chest (24:31); Lengthen your garments (33:59) and for both sexes; The BEST garment is that righteousness and modest conduct (7:26).

The word Burqa is not to be found anywhere in the Quran, but as it falls under the heading of Hijab which is used in Quran we should explore its use. The Arabic word Hijab can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word include screen, barrier, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider etc."

[Tete123]

That is repugnant. Another example of, you have the right to act and dress as you wish as long as you act and dress like everyone else.

I don't personally see it as repugnant, particularly when matters of national security are threatened by a continuation of the practice. We need to move past the concept that we're a tolerant nation. In a perfect world, people should be able to go about their business, wearing and doing what they like so long as it's within the boundaries of the law; unfortunately, what with the potential for abuse, terrorists entering airports etc, the small minority cause the majority to suffer. I would not expect to enter a post office, bank or airport wearing a Balaclava or crash helmet without being challenged and I fail to see why Muslim's should receive special treatment in this regards.

[LA]

Sorry, Midas the source is here:
UKIP to call for ban on wearing burka - Telegraph

[Kiwi 1691]

From Quran-Islam.org - True Islam

"What does The Quran say about the Burqa?

First of all it depends upon who you ask. There is disagreement in Islamic circles as to what extent Quran advocates the wearing of the Burqa. However, The Quran does not specifically mention the Burqa or tell women to wear such extremely confining clothes. Instead, it instructs men and women to dress and behave modestly in society (24:31), which the Ulama or “Scholars” do agree upon. Modern day Muslims base their authority regarding the Burqa on the Hadith or collected traditions of life in the days of Prophet Muhammad. It is important to note here that these “collected traditions” have no place in Islam, (please see relevant articles on this site). Most followers of these traditions know little of their origins or authenticity. For the thousands of traditions attributed to the Prophet only one bears notable credibility:

“Do not write down anything I say except the Quran. Whoever has written something other than Quran let him destroy it.” Reported by Ahmed Vol 1 page 171, also The Sahih of Muslim.

With contradiction and confused thrown up by the hadith and “scholars of Islam” let us consider what Quran, the word of God, says on the topic of a dress code.

For women; Cover your chest (24:31); Lengthen your garments (33:59) and for both sexes; The BEST garment is that righteousness and modest conduct (7:26).

The word Burqa is not to be found anywhere in the Quran, but as it falls under the heading of Hijab which is used in Quran we should explore its use. The Arabic word Hijab can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word include screen, barrier, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider etc."

The Quran talks about covering the body not the face.

Even the imams say burka not obligatory in Islam
News | Muslim imams say burka not obligatory in Islam

[Midas]

I would not expect to enter a post office, bank or airport wearing a Balaclava or crash helmet without being challenged and I fail to see why Muslim's should receive special treatment in this regards.

A very good point of course, and something which yet again raises the whole issue of minority groups being given favoured status under the law to the detriment of the majority.

[Barry]

Those women will appear naked soon on those new fangled airport scanners.

Anything that totally covers the face should be banned, except for male muslims at airports, leaving the country after committing a terrorism offence or robbery.

[DC]

The Quran talks about covering the body not the face.

Even the imams say burka not obligatory in Islam
News | Muslim imams say burka not obligatory in Islam

Tell that to the women who have been stoned, beaten and had acid thrown on their faces for not wearing a burqa or headscarf. While it doesn't say explicitly in the Koran, it is strongly implied that women should cover their heads, or at least interpreted that way by Islam, so what it actually says doesn't really matter. In regards to banning the Burka, I am in full support of this, if I can't walk down the street wearing a balaclava, neither can they.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

astonishing that a party that has pretentions to Libertarianism seeks to curb freedom of choice, but then again they have a policy of rigid control (except for Nigel Farage who does not have to obey ANY of EUkip's rules).

Perhaps EUkip, as they have pretentions to Govern and believe they might have a role to play in Westminster after the GE (unlikely but!!) I wonder could they explain WHY they believe the Hijab, Burka, Niquab or whatever should be banned in a denial of freedom? Perhaps EUkip would be so good as to provide facts as to exactly howmany people wear this form of dress and then a breakdown of all crimes committed by women in Niquabs, Burkas or what ever.

Perhaps it is worth noting that Malcolm Lord Pearson could quite reasonably be defined as an Islamaphobe (in as far as this Politically Correct word has any real meaning) you may find the article here of some interest:
Pan EU Political Party The EFD: EUkip's RACIST CREDENTIALS FOR EFD MEMBERSHIP?

You may also find the fact that Pearson, the titular leader of EUkip is an openly proclaimed award winning Zionist:
Jerusalem Summit

Perhaps this explains EUkip's motivations.

It is also worth noting this arbitrary announcement has no validity in democratic values of EUkip but I understand that a primary reason for EUkip's opposition to Islam may well be the fact that EUkip's London MEP Gerard Batten is married to an Asiatic who hails, I understand, from The Phillipines where there has been violent wars of superstition and belief between Catholics in the mould of the fairly intollerant Cardinal Sin and Muslim extremists who I PRESUME are largely Wahabe.

Will EUkip be trying to 'pander' to the votes available from those like me who believe that short legged fat girls shouldn't wear mini skirts as all that fat is offensive!!

So we have the lunatic fringe, dispossessed and repudiated by the majority of Muslims who as the Taliban go around measuring beards and imposing dress codes for women - Now we have EUkip who will have their own body of nutters holding women down to forcibly remove their choice of clothing!

There is no entry in the Qoran insisting on the wearing of the Veil, and I would suggest EUkip addressed something less divisive and worked WITH Muslims rather than provoke the extremist minority - leadership a skill EUkip has been deeply challenged over since its birth in 1992-3 under Alan Sked and Hugh Moelwyn-Hughes, internal democracy has equally been in short supply!

EUkip is a party of freedoms - you are free to repudiate Islam, reveil abortion, revolt at homosexuality, reject smoking laws - embrace dictatorial top down kontrol, establish extremism & eschew democracy.

To understand the true values of EUkip one need only study their treatment of Nikki Sinclaire or learn about their EU partners in the Pan EU Political Party EFD Group at:
Pan EU Political Party The EFD

Would that UKIP had stuck to being mildly eccentric 'Cranks and Gadflies' concentrating on campaigning to leave the EU and educate the public on the advantages of liberty.

I still think short legged fat girls should be banned from wearing mini skirts! Ban de legs don't ban de Burka!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[octopus]

REFERENCE: UKIP WANT TO BAN THE BURKA.

I would be in favour of a ban on this item of clothing. If you enter a petrol station on a motorcycle, you have to remove your crash helmet. So, why shouldn"t some Muslims have to remove their burka. I know some Muslims think that they are above the law, and show downright contempt, for the British public, who in the main have welcomed them to our country. The Burka is intimidating to a lot of people, and the sooner it goes the better, if Muslim bigots want to keep it, they know what they can do. Well done UKIP, another big vote winner as far I am concerned- AND MANY OTHER PEOPLE, AS WELL. make no mistake about that.

[Barry]

Here's another bloke who wants to ban the burqa:
YouTube - Ban the burka

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

Pat Condell is great value and one of the best comedians on the internet.

This and his many other videos (all of which I have watched) are beyond doubt the best way to deal with most political issues - lampoon is without a doubt the best weapon in politics - whether Pat Condell, The Muppets, TW3, Private Eye and much more - The internet is full of excellent blogs where lampoon information and an avoidance of the PC of such communist organisations as The Frankfurt School, Stonewall and many more is largely ignored.

Banning the Burqa ia of course idiotic - but lampooning it has much merit.

These black Ninja Turtles are less colourful in Britain and I am in favour of adding some colour as they do in the middle east by getting a large percentage of these tents to wander around with a red pitcher on their heads - at least you can see them in the dark!

Perhaps a campaign to ban the Chador would be more popular see:
CATERPILLARS and BUTTERFLIES: #816* - EUkip Extremists The Burka, Niquab, Hijab Ban - & Mini Skirt?

To ban the Niqab, Burka, whatever we call it this week is not a viable or acceptable imposition on freedom and I for one am more intimidated by fat little girls in mini skirts stretched across their size 18 butts than ever by a Hijab.

I dread to think which freedom will be removed next on the lies of politicians aware they MUST use endless distraction techniques and guilt/fear to govern us as they have no other way to Kontrol us.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Kiwi 1691]

I know some Muslims think that they are above the law, and show downright contempt, for the British public, who in the main have welcomed them to our country.

Like the christians who think they are above the law by refusing to hire gay people as priests?

The Burka is intimidating to a lot of people, and the sooner it goes the better, if Muslim bigots want to keep it, they know what they can do. Well done UKIP, another big vote winner as far I am concerned

The Muslim bigots? Rather ironic as you are a bigot yourself, plus you appear to be labeling al Muslims bigots.

Your, just saying this because you hate all muslims. No matter wether they are good or bad.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Like the christians who think they are above the law by refusing to hire gay people as priests?

What a silly comment.

It is a matter of choice and the so called christians choose not to employ perverts - surely it is bigotted to force people to have a belief contrary to their existing belief structure.

The Muslim bigots? Rather ironic as you are a bigot yourself, plus you appear to be labeling al Muslims bigots.

Your, just saying this because you hate all muslims. No matter wether they are good or bad.

Don't you think it rather bigoted as a contrarian to state what someone else is thinking?

There are those who believe that all Muslims are by definition bad in their opposition to the Islamic belief that homosexuals should be executed.

I find it hard to understand what banning the Burqa has to do with your obsession with homosexuality - frankly I could care less what someone's sexuality is, as long as it is within the law and within rationality. That certain people may not wish to employ homosexuals on the basis of their beliefs seems entirely reasonable. Would it be your contention that the catholic church should be obliged to employ Buddhists if they apply for the job based on the salary and hours?

Are you sufficiently conversant with British politics to give your views on EUkip seeking to ban various items of apparel - much as I am happy to discuss your sexual obsessions this is not the approriate location for the subject - clearly.

In passing are you called Kiwi 1691 because you are a backward black born in 1961 and named after the shoe polish or are you named after the bird and have tried counting its feathers or merely adopt the name as a New Zealander with an interest in palindromic inverts?

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Alan Sked - founder of UKIP - slams UKIP

Sir, During the greatest financial crisis facing this country since the 1930s, how typical it is of UKIP’s present pathetic leadership that its flagship policy for the forthcoming general election should be to attack the less than 1 per cent of our female population who wear the burka. This is desperate and inane.

If the party is really so obsessed with race, immigration and Islam, it should simply merge with the BNP, which it increasingly resembles. Why have a competition in intolerance? Why not present a united front? After all the political expediency that drives both these anti-EU parties to take up seats in the European Parliament surely dictates such a measure. But let us dismiss any thought that either of them represents “British values”.

I founded UKIP as a tolerant, liberal and democratic party. By 1997 I could already see the far-right writing on the wall and quit as party leader and member. It is a decision that I have never regretted, now least of all. I hope that all decent people will condemn the party as you did in your splendid leading article.

Dr Alan Sked

EUkip are indeed making a mess of the party Pearson is incompetent and Farage is corrupt!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[octopus]

Alan Sked - founder of UKIP - slams UKIP

Sir, During the greatest financial crisis facing this country since the 1930s, how typical it is of UKIP’s present pathetic leadership that its flagship policy for the forthcoming general election should be to attack the less than 1 per cent of our female population who wear the burka. This is desperate and inane.

If the party is really so obsessed with race, immigration and Islam, it should simply merge with the BNP, which it increasingly resembles. Why have a competition in intolerance? Why not present a united front? After all the political expediency that drives both these anti-EU parties to take up seats in the European Parliament surely dictates such a measure. But let us dismiss any thought that either of them represents “British values”.

I founded UKIP as a tolerant, liberal and democratic party. By 1997 I could already see the far-right writing on the wall and quit as party leader and member. It is a decision that I have never regretted, now least of all. I hope that all decent people will condemn the party as you did in your splendid leading article.

Dr Alan Sked

EUkip are indeed making a mess of the party Pearson is incompetent and Farage is corrupt!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

Greg, How do you explain the fact that UKIP has black and Asian MEPS, voters and members? I can"t quite understand that.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Greg, How do you explain the fact that UKIP has black and Asian MEPS, voters and members? I can"t quite understand that.

Hi,

I find it hard to explain any of the idiocies of EUkip as I share none of their vile values which finds them sitting as a pro EU membership Pan EU Political Party grouping called The EFD - which is Racist, anti Jewish, Xenophobic and incites and practices violence as a political weapon. Values I can not and will not support nor do I empathise with them.

I am happy to publicly repudiate Zionism as that is NOT a religion but a political concept which brings great shame on International Jewry and the beliefs of Jews - just as I am happy to be accurate regarding the perverse practices of homosexuality, though not repudiate homosexuals.

May I however correct you - EUkip has not got ANY black or asian MEPs though I am sure they have some such who are voters and members and it is not for me to try to square that moral circle!

That Malcolm Lord Pearson who is EUkip's titular leader seemingly brought in as Stuart Wheeler was not willing to pay off EUkip's massive debts (£3/4M on one piece of Farage dishonesty alone!) we understand he rightly did not trust Farage (who does who knows him!) and he intimated Pearson should be put in place!

Pearson is proving something of a dullard and with only marginally more competence that their previous performing monket Nigel Farage! You must also bear in mind that Pearson is an outspoken, if ill informed and inept, Zionist - hence, no doubt, his anti Muslim stance and his quite stupid comments about Islam.

You may find the article in the Times of interest:
Veil of Ignorance -Times Online

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[octopus]

Hi,

I find it hard to explain any of the idiocies of EUkip as I share none of their vile values which finds them sitting as a pro EU membership Pan EU Political Party grouping called The EFD - which is Racist, anti Jewish, Xenophobic and incites and practices violence as a political weapon. Values I can not and will not support nor do I empathise with them.

I am happy to publicly repudiate Zionism as that is NOT a religion but a political concept which brings great shame on International Jewry and the beliefs of Jews - just as I am happy to be accurate regarding the perverse practices of homosexuality, though not repudiate homosexuals.

May I however correct you - EUkip has not got ANY black or asian MEPs though I am sure they have some such who are voters and members and it is not for me to try to square that moral circle!

That Malcolm Lord Pearson who is EUkip's titular leader seemingly brought in as Stuart Wheeler was not willing to pay off EUkip's massive debts (£3/4M on one piece of Farage dishonesty alone!) we understand he rightly did not trust Farage (who does who knows him!) and he intimated Pearson should be put in place!

Pearson is proving something of a dullard and with only marginally more competence that their previous performing monket Nigel Farage! You must also bear in mind that Pearson is an outspoken, if ill informed and inept, Zionist - hence, no doubt, his anti Muslim stance and his quite stupid comments about Islam.

You may find the article in the Times of interest:
Veil of Ignorance -Times Online

Regards,
Greg L-W.

As you know, blacks and Asians are encouraged to join UKIP, and are very much a part of UKIP, I know, because I have seen them; so a merger with the BNP would be very unlikely, I would think. however, Lord Pearson"s comments on Muslims are in relation to EXTREMISTS, who ARE intending to take eventual control of the UK. I won"t go into too much detail on this, as I have covered this before, and you know my views, What I will say however, I have shown the video of Lord Pearson"s comments to number of people, and they were in total agreement with Lord Pearson and myself, and they support various parties - but, because of the location where they live, are aware of the danger these people pose. At the moment, UKIP have no MPs in Parliement. I don"t think that will be the case this time next year, however. You say they are corrupt, inefficient, racist, dishonest among many other things. Despite this, they may not win the election, but they will have a lot of people voting for them, and improve their status, pick up a few seats, and - Things like that video. It shows they know the mood of the people - THE BIG THREE DON"T! That 1 min 47 sec video, had my full attention.

[Neo2012]

There's a clip with Nigel Farage being interviewed with Salma Yaqoob. Farage is made to look pretty stupid, estimating a ridiculous number of people wearing burkhas/niqabs and backing it up by citing an unnamed expert. Of course this may be a lot like Nick Griffin's TV appearances where it doesn't matter whether or not he utterly loses the argument since he can use the opportunity to speak to a target audience that will hear what they want to hear.

See here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8464124.stm

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

As you know, blacks and Asians are encouraged to join UKIP, and are very much a part of UKIP, I know, because I have seen them;

There has been little more than superficial 'pandering' and they did have one token black on their NEC Del Young but he was supremely irrelevant as he refused to provide any kind of CV and did little more than provide a veil for tokenism and eventually was levered out. He is no longer a member of EUkip.

A prominent Sri Lankan was parachuted in for the last election but has not been heard of since.

Mohammed Akgun was much fawned over for a short period but left in disgust.

Of whom were you thinking?

so a merger with the BNP would be very unlikely, I would think.

Having joined with extremist violent racists some who are outspokenly anti Jewish who advocate bombing African migrant boats and hunting homosexuals dressed as rabbits in the Pan EU Political Party EFD Group co-presidented by Nigel Farage and Lega Nord - I would postulate there is not a cigarrette paper twixt them and the BNP and do bear in mind the huge efforts made by Mark Croucher and Nigel Farage to raise the profile of the BNP in the run up to the election, which arguably secured more votes thus getting Griffin & Brons elected.

In some quarters in EUkip a deal with the utterly vile BNP would seem welcome.

however, Lord Pearson"s comments on Muslims are in relation to EXTREMISTS, who ARE intending to take eventual control of the UK.

No they are NOT - perhaps you need to do more homework. You clearly are unaware of just how ill informed Pearson is in his prejudice and intollerance of Islam - further it is not wise to overlook Pearson's affiliations with the evils of Zionism!

I won"t go into too much detail on this, as I have covered this before, and you know my views,

I have also noted how little you seem to know of the subject and how it is based on a very limited and ill informed horizon - even wittering on about 'we are being overun in our area by Muslims and there are parts of townm which are nearly all Indians' as I recall - thereby displaying a total ignorance of the subject on which you opine as very few Indians are Muslims since most are Hindu, Tamil, Sikh, Christian or Buddhist.

What I will say however, I have shown the video of Lord Pearson"s comments to number of people, and they were in total agreement with Lord Pearson and myself, and they support various parties - but, because of the location where they live, are aware of the danger these people pose.

Yes indeed it is easy to dupe the ill informed and I despise people like Pearson who seek to abuse the ignorant by exploitation of that ignorance. It is his duty through privilege to aid not harm our society though I do clearly understand the inane prejudices to which he panders having been involved in the anti apartheid movement in SOWETO in the riots of 1976.

At the moment, UKIP have no MPs in Parliement.

In view of the staggering lack of integrity, honesty and competence - their propensity for abuse of power and their self serving pursuit of self enrichment at least that we can be thankful for!

I don"t think that will be the case this time next year, however.

I desparately hope you are wrong but then I have rather more knowledge of the facts than most.

You say they are corrupt, inefficient, racist, dishonest among many other things.

Indeed I do and I have provided the evidence to prove it including fighting from October 2005 until November 2009 at much risk to ensure justice was meted out to Tom Wise for his criminal abuse of elected office and theft of public money taking also the lies and distortions levied at me by the corrupt in EUkip who endeavoured dishonestly to orchestrate a series of cover-ups.

Despite this, they may not win the election, but they will have a lot of people voting for them, and improve their status, pick up a few seats,

I do not expect them to win a single solitary seat and I expect them to garner about 6% of the vote at best with a high in one or two areas reaching 20% but inadequate to gain election - PRAISE BE!

and - Things like that video. It shows they know the mood of the people - THE BIG THREE DON"T!

Oh indeed they know the mood of those living in the gutter as it is the very home EUkip leadership has dragged the party to - lacking in intellect, competence, leadership, Officer Qualities or vision.

Yes they can bestir a rabble seeking anarchy and collapse of the rule of law - however since I wish to see leadership to lead Britain OUT of the EU with the minimum of further dAMAGE WE CAN BUT HOPE THIS ELECTION SEES THE END OF THESE VILE PEOPLE. (woops fat finger syndrome!)

That 1 min 47 sec video, had my full attention.

Mine too in disgust at the inaccuracy and the vile ill informed racist incitement from someone sufficiently wealth to be insulated from the consequences - Shame on Lord Pearson.

Now we have these idiots in EUkip making much of the Niquab when Britain is in the most damaging thrall of a foreign power and the most incredible financial disaster of modern history what are these Burks banging on about - The Burqa which is an open attack on rather less than one percent of the women in these British isles.

There are around 2% of Britain's population of whom approximately 1/4% wear the Burqa so that is around 1,500 to 2,000 who wear the Burqa - How about banning Jehovah's Wetnurses from carrying brief case as that poses a very real threat they could be carrying bombs!

I ask again if ANYONE can provide a proven number of individuals who committed a crime by virtue of wearing a Hijab? ANY?

Obscene isn't it?

What of the campaigning to leave the EU and govern ourselves?

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[John West]

There's a clip with Nigel Farage being interviewed with Salma Yaqoob. Farage is made to look pretty stupid, estimating a ridiculous number of people wearing burkhas/niqabs and backing it up by citing an unnamed expert. Of course this may be a lot like Nick Griffin's TV appearances where it doesn't matter whether or not he utterly loses the argument since he can use the opportunity to speak to a target audience that will hear what they want to hear.

See here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8464124.stm

Farage is a joke. Is this the best UKIP can do? Sadly it is.

[octopus]

REf BAN THE BURKA: I fail to see how Nigel Farage lost the arguement. He had common sense - and the majority of the British people on his side. There is one law for Muslims, and law for the rest of us - AND THE BURKA IS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT PROVES THIS! If a white person tries to fill up wearing a crash helmet he is told by the cashier to remove it or leave. If a Muslim woman pulled into the same forecourt and was told to remove it, her husband would probably set about the cashier, for showing disrespect to their faith (the casier should be awarded the George medal, through, braver person than me). If people are not prepared to show respect to OUR way of life - perhaps they should reconsider their choice of adopted country, and get the next plane home.

[Neo2012]

REf BAN THE BURKA: I fail to see how Nigel Farage lost the arguement. He had common sense - and the majority of the British people on his side. There is one law for Muslims, and law for the rest of us - AND THE BURKA IS ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT PROVES THIS! If a white person tries to fill up wearing a crash helmet he is told by the cashier to remove it or leave. If a Muslim woman pulled into the same forecourt and was told to remove it, her husband would probably set about the cashier, for showing disrespect to their faith (the casier should be awarded the George medal, through, braver person than me). If people are not prepared to show respect to OUR way of life - perhaps they should reconsider their choice of adopted country, and get the next plane home.

It is you who should you should respect our way of life and traditions for freedom of speech dress, and religion. Traitor.

[Tete123]

It is you who should you should respect our way of life and traditions for freedom of speech dress, and religion. Traitor.

HAHA - when historically did Britain ever really practice freedom of speech, dress and religion? Traditionally we're not the liberal society I keep hearing about on this forum.

[octopus]

There has been little more than superficial 'pandering' and they did have one token black on their NEC Del Young but he was supremely irrelevant as he refused to provide any kind of CV and did little more than provide a veil for tokenism and eventually was levered out. He is no longer a member of EUkip.

A prominent Sri Lankan was parachuted in for the last election but has not been heard of since.

Mohammed Akgun was much fawned over for a short period but left in disgust.

Of whom were you thinking?



Having joined with extremist violent racists some who are outspokenly anti Jewish who advocate bombing African migrant boats and hunting homosexuals dressed as rabbits in the Pan EU Political Party EFD Group co-presidented by Nigel Farage and Lega Nord - I would postulate there is not a cigarrette paper twixt them and the BNP and do bear in mind the huge efforts made by Mark Croucher and Nigel Farage to raise the profile of the BNP in the run up to the election, which arguably secured more votes thus getting Griffin & Brons elected.

In some quarters in EUkip a deal with the utterly vile BNP would seem welcome.



No they are NOT - perhaps you need to do more homework. You clearly are unaware of just how ill informed Pearson is in his prejudice and intollerance of Islam - further it is not wise to overlook Pearson's affiliations with the evils of Zionism!


I have also noted how little you seem to know of the subject and how it is based on a very limited and ill informed horizon - even wittering on about 'we are being overun in our area by Muslims and there are parts of townm which are nearly all Indians' as I recall - thereby displaying a total ignorance of the subject on which you opine as very few Indians are Muslims since most are Hindu, Tamil, Sikh, Christian or Buddhist.



Yes indeed it is easy to dupe the ill informed and I despise people like Pearson who seek to abuse the ignorant by exploitation of that ignorance. It is his duty through privilege to aid not harm our society though I do clearly understand the inane prejudices to which he panders having been involved in the anti apartheid movement in SOWETO in the riots of 1976.



In view of the staggering lack of integrity, honesty and competence - their propensity for abuse of power and their self serving pursuit of self enrichment at least that we can be thankful for!



I desparately hope you are wrong but then I have rather more knowledge of the facts than most.



Indeed I do and I have provided the evidence to prove it including fighting from October 2005 until November 2009 at much risk to ensure justice was meted out to Tom Wise for his criminal abuse of elected office and theft of public money taking also the lies and distortions levied at me by the corrupt in EUkip who endeavoured dishonestly to orchestrate a series of cover-ups.



I do not expect them to win a single solitary seat and I expect them to garner about 6% of the vote at best with a high in one or two areas reaching 20% but inadequate to gain election - PRAISE BE!



Oh indeed they know the mood of those living in the gutter as it is the very home EUkip leadership has dragged the party to - lacking in intellect, competence, leadership, Officer Qualities or vision.

Yes they can bestir a rabble seeking anarchy and collapse of the rule of law - however since I wish to see leadership to lead Britain OUT of the EU with the minimum of further dAMAGE WE CAN BUT HOPE THIS ELECTION SEES THE END OF THESE VILE PEOPLE. (woops fat finger syndrome!)



Mine too in disgust at the inaccuracy and the vile ill informed racist incitement from someone sufficiently wealth to be insulated from the consequences - Shame on Lord Pearson.

Now we have these idiots in EUkip making much of the Niquab when Britain is in the most damaging thrall of a foreign power and the most incredible financial disaster of modern history what are these Burks banging on about - The Burqa which is an open attack on rather less than one percent of the women in these British isles.

There are around 2% of Britain's population of whom approximately 1/4% wear the Burqa so that is around 1,500 to 2,000 who wear the Burqa - How about banning Jehovah's Wetnurses from carrying brief case as that poses a very real threat they could be carrying bombs!

I ask again if ANYONE can provide a proven number of individuals who committed a crime by virtue of wearing a Hijab? ANY?

Obscene isn't it?

What of the campaigning to leave the EU and govern ourselves?

Regards,
Greg L-W.

With respect, I think your the one that needs to your homework. Try moving to one of the big cities, and see how you like it, Greg. You wouldn"t, I promise.

[DC]

It is you who should you should respect our way of life and traditions for freedom of speech dress, and religion. Traitor.

Freedom of speech and dress are fine, within reason. Many would have issues if I walked down the street in a balaclava or wearing a Swastika. In fact I would probably be told to remove the balaclava at least by the nearest police officer. Cashiers and many others in the street would feel offended or frightened of me if I was to wear a balaclava around, but simply because it's religious, people must just 'put up with' Muslim women in a Burka, which is actually an entirely unnecessary garment anyway. In fact i would question why exactly any woman in a liberal society would choose to wear one, when you can satisfy the requirements of your religion by wearing a headscarf. Quite simply, if they don't respect our way of life, why should we respect theirs?

[JacquesMagique]

I find UGG boots intimidating. Let's ban them!

What is the difference between a Burka and breast implants? I mean, both are simply physical augmentations which women undergo in order to please males. Although I guess unless they are really huge augmented breasts are less capable of concealing somebody's identity.

[Barry]

What is the difference between a Burka and breast implants?

If you don't know the answer to this question, I suggest you stay well away from Muslim women.

Seriously, if the law bans full face coverings in public for all people, it is not a discriminatory law.
If it banned Muslim women from wearing such apparel, that would be discriminatory.

It will be interesting to see how the French word their law about burkhas, and whether there will be some challenge in the European Court.

[Neo2012]

Freedom of speech and dress are fine, within reason

.[ha ha]

Many would have issues if I walked down the street in a balaclava or wearing a Swastika.

[punks? anyway, you do. "DCFGS3 The Fascist"]

In fact I would probably be told to remove the balaclava at least by the nearest police officer.

[nope, wore one to the match, no problem]

Cashiers and many others in the street would feel offended or frightened of me if I was to wear a balaclava around,

[nope, wore one to the match, no problem] [QUOTE] but simply because it's religious, people must just 'put up with' Muslim women in a Burka, which is actually an entirely unnecessary garment anyway[/QUOTE] [what's necessary is subejective. ie make up?]

In fact i would question why exactly any woman in a liberal society would choose to wear one, when you can satisfy the requirements of your religion by wearing a headscarf.

[like punks, to piss anti libertarians like you and LA?]

Quite simply, if they don't respect our way of life, why should we respect theirs?

[there asking you to wear a burka?]
People wanting to mimic totalitarian regimes, is just hypocracy imo.

[JacquesMagique]

If you don't know the answer to this question, I suggest you stay well away from Muslim women.

You can't see the parallels?

[octopus]

I find UGG boots intimidating. Let's ban them!

What is the difference between a Burka and breast implants? I mean, both are simply physical augmentations which women undergo in order to please males. Although I guess unless they are really huge augmented breasts are less capable of concealing somebody's identity.

Breast inplants are usually the decesion of the women in question, who wish to have them. My partner who works with a Muslim lady at work, says that the only the reason this Muslim lady doesn"t wear a burka is because her husband doesn"t demand it of her. That kind of control has no place in a civillised society, in 2010. True, you should be able to wear what you wish, but this is not only a fascist like, control on women, but undermines the UK way of life.

[octopus]

It is you who should you should respect our way of life and traditions for freedom of speech dress, and religion. Traitor.

Well, correct me if I"m wrong - THIS IS THE UK? If I moved to your country I would. As you are in the UK, I feel it is your place to respect OUR wishes, freedom of speech, dress and traditions - NOT THE OTHER WAY ROUND. If I go to dinner at a friend"s house and he smokes a cigar, after the meal - I don"t tell him to put out his cigar.

[DC]

[punks? anyway, you do. "DCFGS3 The Fascist"]

Fascist, not Nazi.

[what's necessary is subejective. ie make up?]

Make up, not necessary, but neither does it offend our sensabilities or traditions.

[like punks, to piss anti libertarians like you and LA?]

If they're wearing it for that reason then they have their own issues and even less right to wear it.

[there asking you to wear a burka?]

No, but they're preventing others from seeing their faces. In Western tradition, hiding the identity has often been associated with criminals and misdeeds, and as such, it has become offensive to hide your identity in public. I would even consider it rude if someone wore sunglasses when talking to me.

People wanting to mimic totalitarian regimes, is just hypocracy imo.

Explain the hypocrisy.

[octopus]

HAHA - when historically did Britain ever really practice freedom of speech, dress and religion? Traditionally we're not the liberal society I keep hearing about on this forum.

A hell of a lot more "liberal" than land of the burka, through. In Portsmouth where I live you have a church and a Mosque next door to one another. You could walk into the Christian church, insult Jesus, and stand a good chance of getting out in one piece. Do the same thing in the Mosque, insult Allah - your head, body, arms and legs would probably leave the building seperately.

[octopus]

Like the christians who think they are above the law by refusing to hire gay people as priests?




The Muslim bigots? Rather ironic as you are a bigot yourself, plus you appear to be labeling al Muslims bigots.

Your, just saying this because you hate all muslims. No matter wether they are good or bad.

Firstly, If people do not wish to hire gay priests that is a matter for them; personaly, I wouldn"t have a problem with that. There is certain types of women that turn me on - but I wouldn"t shout it from the pulprit, or any public place, would you? My business, as it is theirs. Secondly, I do NOT hate all Muslims, many are perfectly alright. But I am suspicious of them as they are here in large numbers (85% of pupils in a Portsmouth school alone, are Muslim) and I have found in a lot of cases, they are loud and aggressive, and hold hatred for their British hosts, and will not accept any other point of view than their own.True, in PC Britain, 2010 I probably do come accross as Alf Garnet M2, but you do have to have realistic outlook on this matter, if you don"t, you will just sew the seeds for a future nazi goverment. In fact people like myself are their best friends, people like yourself just breed complacency, and the hard right will just move on in; and there are extreme organistions who even admit they are racist, and would make look like a liberal, who would be only too happy to take on this role. With respect, you, and people like you, would then have something to moan about - although I doubt if you would be allowed to!

[Barry]

A hell of a lot more "liberal" than land of the burka, through. In Portsmouth where I live you have a church and a Mosque next door to one another. You could walk into the Christian church, insult Jesus, and stand a good chance of getting out in one piece. Do the same thing in the Mosque, insult Allah - your head, body, arms and legs would probably leave the building seperately.

That is because Christianity is based upon love, whereas Allah, the antichrist is based upon hatred.

[Kiwi 1691]

That is because Christianity is based upon love, whereas Allah, the

antichrist

is based upon hatred.

When will you get it, both are based on Judaism (where most of the bad parts come from). Christianity is a Jewish sect and Islam is a modified version of Christianity. If Christianity is based on love (in your opinion) then so is Islam. Also Allah is the same as the christian god or the Jewish

Jehovah

.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

HAHA - when historically did Britain ever really practice freedom of speech, dress and religion? Traditionally we're not the liberal society I keep hearing about on this forum.

Hi,

how right you are - however does that in some way justify failing to strive to achieve it?

It was Edfmund Burke who said:
'For evil to flourish requires good men to do nothing'.

Having so little confidence that we seek to ban items of dress is pathetic!

Less than 1,500 women of all ages choose to wear the Niqab and that hardly gives cause for such idiotic behaviour when we are on the verge of an election - EUkip had little concern for The British way of life when they buried their snouts in the trough in the EU and conjoined with a bunch of anti Jewish, racist, xenophobes who espoused incited and practice violenc where some voted FOR The Lisbon Treaty whilst EUkip did absolutely nothing of consequence to oppose it.

EUkip makes much of banning the Hijab whilst its defacto leader co chairs an EU political group which espouses membership of the EU and one traitor - Derek Clarke MEP - signed the group up to GREATER subsidiarity to the EU for Nation States!

Do you not feel that EUkip is making much noise about the utterly irrelevant (particularly as they can not, nor ever will be able to make law on the matter) yet they fail to address the issues of importance. They pose and posture with utter irrelevance with play school political policies yet fail to address the fact they did NOTHING to oppose the surrender of Britain to subserviance to The EU>>

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

With respect, I think your the one that needs to your homework. Try moving to one of the big cities, and see how you like it, Greg. You wouldn"t, I promise.

Hi,

so you concede you are FRIGHTENED of rather less than 1,500 women who choose to wear the niquab who mainly live in cities!!

Frankly I am more concerned about the dangers of arming the British Police due to their lack of skill, competence, training, discipline and accountability.

Can you identify a single instance of a violent crime committed by a woman in a Niqab - If not why are you frightened - I have listed 37 police street executions they were not wearing hijabs but incompetent and unaccountable mind sets!

Friday night Lee and I were in a big city where we had dinner with friends from Bombay who are the one an Indian the other a Goan we were in an area where they live along side caucasians and their son is finishing a degree in IT hoping to go on to get an BAeng - I do incline to believe that their contribution to our society far exceeds many who live here as she happens to be a nurse (who used to run the dialisis unit in Oman for The Sheik of Oman and he having started out as an air conditioning specialist became responsible for display of the Sheik's crystal and gem collection - he now is studying at Filton in Aircraft Maintenance and turn around! 3 people and all 3 gainfully employed tax payers striving to achieve in our culture.

The food was great and the company a privilege.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

If you don't know the answer to this question, I suggest you stay well away from Muslim women.

Seriously, if the law bans full face coverings in public for all people, it is not a discriminatory law.
If it banned Muslim women from wearing such apparel, that would be discriminatory.

It will be interesting to see how the French word their law about burkhas, and whether there will be some challenge in the European Court.

Hi,

I understand there are some men who like full face covering with a breast!

Frankly a burka is I find far more alluring on a tall slim woman with exquisite khol and eyes and the elegance and confidence the niqab grants some women.

So much more alluring than fat and silicone!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

A hell of a lot more "liberal" than land of the burka, through. In Portsmouth where I live you have a church and a Mosque next door to one another. You could walk into the Christian church, insult Jesus, and stand a good chance of getting out in one piece. Do the same thing in the Mosque, insult Allah - your head, body, arms and legs would probably leave the building seperately.

Hi,

do you regularly attend that church?

What did the priest say when you asked him?

Have you been to the mosque? have you asked to meet the mullah and discuss your concerns?

I did and I obtained a Fatwa signed on behalf of 1,200 Mullahs stating it was un Islamic and a crime against Islam to attack and kill or make effort to kill peopl;es in a host country. The qoran clearly states that a follower of islam should respect the peoples and beliefs of a host country. A small lunatic fringe do not adhere to the Quoran yet claim to be muslims - just as the lunatic fringes of so called christianity and some of their more ridiculous views - such as the imbecilic Rowan Williams who was never very bright but when it came to a moral understanding of the tennets of his job and the beliefs he is paid to uphold is seemingly bereft of any common sense and hence he is presiding over the greatest collapse of the Anglican communion in centuries!

Do you consider it would be wise and constructive for EUkip to force muslims to eat pork so as to support the Danish pig industry? (we no longer have a pig industry it is dominated by Danish companies and EU regulation).

Surely EUkip should get stuck into forcing muslims and jews to eat bacon sarnies so that they fit in with the rest of society and don't make bacon eaters feel uncomfortable in transport cafe.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Firstly, If people do not wish to hire gay priests that is a matter for them; personaly, I wouldn"t have a problem with that. There is certain types of women that turn me on - but I wouldn"t shout it from the pulprit, or any public place, would you? My business, as it is theirs. Secondly, I do NOT hate all Muslims, many are perfectly alright. But I am suspicious of them as they are here in large numbers (85% of pupils in a Portsmouth school alone, are Muslim) and I have found in a lot of cases, they are loud and aggressive, and hold hatred for their British hosts, and will not accept any other point of view than their own.True, in PC Britain, 2010 I probably do come accross as Alf Garnet M2, but you do have to have realistic outlook on this matter, if you don"t, you will just sew the seeds for a future nazi goverment. In fact people like myself are their best friends, people like yourself just breed complacency, and the hard right will just move on in; and there are extreme organistions who even admit they are racist, and would make look like a liberal, who would be only too happy to take on this role. With respect, you, and people like you, would then have something to moan about - although I doubt if you would be allowed to!

Hi,

BIT RICH!!

You may recal it was you who having made a collection of stereotypical jingoistic remarks about Muslims who went on to say there were areas of your home town that were overun with Indians - when clearly you were unaware that very few Indians are Muslims!

There are only about 2Million Muslims in Britain, many of whom are pretty uncommited, many of whom do not practice and a number of whom have married christian or agnostic partners.

I think the Jehovah's Wetnurses and Scientology and some so called born again evangelists, not to mention some sects of house and pentacostal offer a greater threat than many muslims.

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

Whilst to me the burka is symbolic of the clear and profoundly unpleasant repression of women enforced by men from or following certain cultural, not reglious, backgrounds, I find it a remarkably strange argument that to fight one form of repression we must use another form.

My solution would be to say that it is fine for women to wear the burka, but equally it must be fine for private businesses and Govt. officers to require women to remove the face mask when dealing with them; our cultural practice is for communication to be open and unobscured by masks - surely our own cultural practice and understanding is and has been that those who cover their faces when dealing with us our either concealing something or are being grossly disrepectful to us. Surely it is fine for all individuals to follow their own cultural practices provided that those practices are not incompatible with the main culture.

[Barry]

When will you get it, both are based on Judaism (where most of the bad parts come from). Christianity is a Jewish sect and Islam is a modified version of Christianity. If Christianity is based on love (in your opinion) then so is Islam. Also Allah is the same as the christian god or the Jewish

Jehovah

.

If only this were true. We would all be in a lovely friendly club together, without Islam calling for the slaying of Jews and Christians.
When will you get it Kiwi?
As a non-believer you know nothing of spiritual matters.

[Midas]

If only this were true. We would all be in a lovely friendly club together, without Islam calling for the slaying of Jews and Christians.
When will you get it Kiwi?
As a non-believer you know nothing of spiritual matters.

Not so sure about that rather wide-sweeping statement there Barry. As a lifelong atheist myself, I know a great deal more about religious matters than the vast majority of Christians I've met, including more than one priest - it come from having to know the ground you walk on in order to accurately defend it (if only the same thing could be said about most theists!) - and many other non-believers I know are in exactly the same position. You can't equate not believing in something to not knowing or not understanding it, they're very different things.

[JacquesMagique]

If only this were true. We would all be in a lovely friendly club together, without Islam calling for the slaying of Jews and Christians.

What about the sectarian fighting between Christian denomininations? And Jewish persecution of Muslims?

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

clearly in a free society it is the right of the individual to call the shots.

Property and business owners should have the right to serve who they wish and if they do not wish to admit people with covered faces that should be their choice. There is no place in this argument for government to make more laws - there is already law in place upholding the rights of property owners - start getting the police to do their job.

Just as there are laws against being drunk and disorderly in a public place and or causing a public nuisance - why do people believe we need new laws related to binge drinking it is no one's business UNTIL it impinges on someone elses liberty and rights.

If idiots wish to drug themselves with alcohol, heroin or nicotine that is none of the governments business.

Regards,
Greg L-W.