Nigel FARAGE on QUESTION TIME 22-Jul-2010

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

Nigel Farage's come back performance on Question Time after making a complete Rs of himself in the General Election when the entire Party he effectively leads had an absoltely catastrophic and internally disasterous General Election where they were resoun dingly rejected in 640+ constituencies and where out of 19,000 elected offices they hold about 20 elected places.

Nigel Farage has been - as I predicted almost 15 years ago has been an unmittigated disaster as a leader - Malcolm Lord Pearson is just a fool and Christopher Lord Monkton is a professional clown and serial liar.

David Bannerman is also a fraud, petty crook, cheat and serial liar.

UKIP is all but bankrupt and awaiting a judgement for their dishonesty that could see them with a bill for over £1M but that is small beer to the huge amount of money that due to dishonest accounting looks as if it has been stolen by its leadership for personal gain like Tom Wise stole money and was sentenced to 2 years in prison last November but was let out on the QT in May because we expect our poiliticians to be as dishonest, corrupt, untrustworthy and bent as Tom Wise!

All that said Nigel Farage is good at ONE thing - he is a good performer. He was very good as UKIP's performing monkey but as we all know a monkey in silk is a monkey no less and the higher up the tree the monkey climbs the more we see its Rs and never was that more true than having Nigel Farage - who has never, ever won a single election of consequence as an MEP and a leader of UKIP.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Streetwalker]

You dont like the bloke then ?

Thought he came across very well myself,only once did he utter the words "open door" and was cut short by Dumbelbee. ."I agree with Nigel" was the the most popular phrase of the evening

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

I said he was a great performer.

Yes I do like him - he is a likable rogue and a consumate humerous glib barrow boy.

Of course I like Nigel Farage - that he is a petty crook, a liar, a cheat, dishonest, corrupt, venal, without gravitas and a useless leader has absolutely nothing to do with liking him.

Great company but as a representative of my Country he is involved as a racist, anti Jewish, pro EU membership, supporter of dishonesty and violence, untrustworthy, a womaniser, a drunk, hugely insecure, and a fool but yes I like him.

I have absolutely no respect for him, he has NEVER earned any - but also I like most animals.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[DaveUK]

I saw the program last night, I thought he came across much as he always has done, a racist, misogynistic, demagogue show boater. His rant about the Burka showed his true colours. His comments about Nick Griffin struck me as very disengenuous, given that their political stances are not that much different. He was made to look both racist and stupid by the American lady in the audience.
It was Ruth lea that kept saying "I agree with nigel", a woman who has little of any meaning or interest to say about anything. She certainly didn't agree with him about the Burka issue.
Thank goodness this odius man will never be in power.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I saw the program last night, I thought he came across much as he always has done, a racist, misogynistic, demagogue show boater. His rant about the Burka showed his true colours. His comments about Nick Griffin struck me as very disengenuous, given that their political stances are not that much different. He was made to look both racist and stupid by the American lady in the audience.
It was Ruth lea that kept saying "I agree with nigel", a woman who has little of any meaning or interest to say about anything. She certainly didn't agree with him about the Burka issue.
Thank goodness this odius man will never be in power.

Hi,

I do not for a moment disagree but I still like him on certain levels - he is an amusing oik entertaining and without one iota of Officer Quality but still a likeable rogue - unlike his longterm oppo Mark Croucher who I have always found to be a vile little nematode.

It is also worthy of note that in all the years and for all the £Millions they have made for themselves UKIP has not managed to move Britain one inch closer to leaving The EU.

It is also worthy of note that without the very clear support of Nigel Farage and Mark Croucher it is very obvious the BNP would have been very unlikely to have gained an MEP. Nigel Farage started his deliberate campaign to raise the profile of the BNP when he was orchestrating his own Reichstag Fire moment and his Crystal Nacht when he was purging UKIP BNP of decent honest folk who were genuinely elected such as Dr. Edmond, Dr. Abbott and those who supported them to replace them with pond life and dishonest scum.

Nigel Farage kept on promoting the BNP at every opportunity until his chum Mark Croucher joined in in about January.

We now understand why he wanted The BNP elected as MEPs as it seems he had already got plans to form his own Racist, anti Jewish, anti homosexual, pro EU membership Pan EU Political Party grouping 'The EFD' no doubt with the aim of jumping ship from UKIP which he has single handedly trashed, to form a new EU Party some time after his operation in November.

Already he has sewn the seeds of Pan EUropeanism by rigging the selection process to appoint the serial fraud Marta Andreasen as an MEP for Britain when she lives in Barcelona!

These people are beneath contempt but that does not mean I do not like Nigel Farage.

This is almost the complete opposite of Nick Clegg & David Cameron who I do NOT like but whose betrayal of these United Kingdoms has been similarly dishonest to that of Nigel Farage.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Again, the only person who spoke any sense, on that 10.35, thursday night slot; glad I stayed up for it, despite a 5.00 am start.

[octopus]

I saw the program last night, I thought he came across much as he always has done, a racist, misogynistic, demagogue show boater. His rant about the Burka showed his true colours. His comments about Nick Griffin struck me as very disengenuous, given that their political stances are not that much different. He was made to look both racist and stupid by the American lady in the audience.
It was Ruth lea that kept saying "I agree with nigel", a woman who has little of any meaning or interest to say about anything. She certainly didn't agree with him about the Burka issue.
Thank goodness this odius man will never be in power.

How was he racist? Was it because he dared to oppose the burka? He didn"t think Nick Griffin should be excluded from the Queens garden party? Or was it some other reason? most of the others were just the same boring, PC stero types; that"s why I only bother watching Ouestion Time when we have somebody interesting on the panal, like Mr Farage.

As for Mr Farage never gaing power, I wouldn"t count on it - far more unlikely things have happend, I can assure you!

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

How was he racist?

Nigel Farage IS A RACIST - he runs and chairs the most violently Racist Pan EU Political Party grouping The EFD - Do check your FACTs.

Was it because he dared to oppose the burka?

NO not for a moment but he knows very little about Islam and that is clear and his titular party leader is a Zionist supporter (Google >lord pearson jerusalem summit<)
There is no doubt Lord Pearson is a racist - see the NoTW article about him and his own video linked there.
Some Muslim women find the burqa empowering and some it controls - it is just like so called christians who move from woman to woman selecting those that seek victim status.
Why get excited by the burka?

He didn"t think Nick Griffin should be excluded from the Queens garden party?

Yes but without the help and promotion of the BNP by Nigel Farage & Mark Croucher raising their profile over a long period The BNP may well never have had an MEP elected.

Or was it some other reason? most of the others were just the same boring, PC stero types; that"s why I only bother watching Ouestion Time when we have somebody interesting on the panal, like Mr Farage.

As for Mr Farage never gaing power, I wouldn"t count on it - far more unlikely things have happend, I can assure you!

Have you EVER studied UKIP's results in the 17 years Farage has been defacto leader? UKIP's national and local results have been a catastrophic joke with total consistency - as have been The BNP.

Out of about 19,000 elected political offices in these United Kingdoms UKIP has about 20 elected members!!

Nigel Farage is a clever performing monkey but he sure aint no organ grinder - he is only known to most people for childish stunts, schoolboy humour, barrow boy glibness and idiotic outbursts treated with contempt by the EU pretend Parliament.

Now that the corrupt, dishonest, dishonourable Mark Croucher with his racist and anti Jewish stance as media manager for Farage's EFD is gone PERHAPS Nigel Farage will grow up and stop consistently appointing trash around him so as to look clever.

That said, although he is disloyal self seeking, self enriching and spends far too much time thinking with his little head for lack of content in his big head - yes I like him - he is a likeable fool.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Nigel Farage IS A RACIST - he runs and chairs the most violently Racist Pan EU Political Party grouping The EFD - Do check your FACTs.




NO not for a moment but he knows very little about Islam and that is clear and his titular party leader is a Zionist supporter (Google >lord pearson jerusalem summit<)
There is no doubt Lord Pearson is a racist - see the NoTW article about him and his own video linked there.
Some Muslim women find the burqa empowering and some it controls - it is just like so called christians who move from woman to woman selecting those that seek victim status.
Why get excited by the burka?



Yes but without the help and promotion of the BNP by Nigel Farage & Mark Croucher raising their profile over a long period The BNP may well never have had an MEP elected.

Or was it some other reason? most of the others were just the same boring, PC stero types; that"s why I only bother watching Ouestion Time when we have somebody interesting on the panal, like Mr Farage.


Have you EVER studied UKIP's results in the 17 years Farage has been defacto leader? UKIP's national and local results have been a catastrophic joke with total consistency - as have been The BNP.

Out of about 19,000 elected political offices in these United Kingdoms UKIP has about 20 elected members!!

Nigel Farage is a clever performing monkey but he sure aint no organ grinder - he is only known to most people for childish stunts, schoolboy humour, barrow boy glibness and idiotic outbursts treated with contempt by the EU pretend Parliament.

Now that the corrupt, dishonest, dishonourable Mark Croucher with his racist and anti Jewish stance as media manager for Farage's EFD is gone PERHAPS Nigel Farage will grow up and stop consistently appointing trash around him so as to look clever.

That said, although he is disloyal self seeking, self enriching and spends far too much time thinking with his little head for lack of content in his big head - yes I like him - he is a likeable fool.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Hi Greg, nice to hear from you again. On the matter of our mutual friend being a racist, I thought Dave was refering to his comments on the programme, not his association with the EFD. If this does make him a racist, he is in good company - the vast majority of the population would support what he said (they might not admit it); I couldn"t see any evidence of any racism on Question Time. Mind you, Dave doesn"t strike me as unbiased, which is why I arrived at this conclusion. As far as I am aware UKIP don"t have any Adolf Hitler style ant-semitic policies. You feel the same way about Pearson/Farage as I do about Blair/Brown.

As for the "B" word, 67% of the population don"t want it ( probably higher) - I DON"T WANT IT! If that makes me racist, then I am proud to be racist! It is a stamp of Islam on our Great British culture, will drive the people further to the right. To many English and Muslim people it"s as offensive as a swasitka It seems to me that the only people that can"t see this is our present goverment, (who live in their own little make believe world) "wet behind the ears" students, their teachers and other people, for their own reasons, choose not too.

As for UKIP never gaing power, maybe your right - but if this is the case, somebody will jump into their shoes as the 4th largest party, probably much further right, far more radical and far more evil - AND GOD KNOWS WHAT THE"VE GOT IN MIND! You may get your anti-jewish polices, and more; I hope not. After all, it took Hitler many years to become Chancelor of Germany. A cautionary tale, take note. all I know is that you can"t go ignoring the wishes of the people, and survive on a long term basis; 17 years isn"t that long really.

[DaveUK]

Hi octopus (I feel a bit wierd calling you that lol).
It was actally his remarks about Americans that made him come across as racist in my view. Credit due to the young lady in the audience for laughing off his stupid remarks and turning it around on him.
I don't agee with his view on the Burak either. I'm not sure whether it was this debate or another that he appeared on recently about this issue, but he described the wearing of it as "rude". What a facile thing to say. To my mind, being rude is usually done through the use of ones mouth or gestures, not by ones clothing, especially if the clothing in question has some cultural or religious significance to the person wearing it.
Farage seems to be adept at being extremely rude through the use of his mouth, as was evident by his remarks about America.

[octopus]

Hi octopus (I feel a bit wierd calling you that lol).
It was actally his remarks about Americans that made him come across as racist in my view. Credit due to the young lady in the audience for laughing off his stupid remarks and turning it around on him.
I don't agee with his view on the Burak either. I'm not sure whether it was this debate or another that he appeared on recently about this issue, but he described the wearing of it as "rude". What a facile thing to say. To my mind, being rude is usually done through the use of ones mouth or gestures, not by ones clothing, especially if the clothing in question has some cultural or religious significance to the person wearing it.
Farage seems to be adept at being extremely rude through the use of his mouth, as was evident by his remarks about America.

Hi Dave, I won"t go into the reason I chose octopus - sought of personal.

Anyway, well done for sticking up for our American cousins, although, they are big enough to look after themselves, I think, although I didn"t detect any racism myself - mind you in this day and age it"s usualy OK if the victim is a white Christian. I agree Mr Farage can be a bit rude, although sometimes you need a bit of fire in your belly, to get your point across - especialy in the snake pit of the EU; shrinking violets need not apply. What you have to remember, is we British are not very popular with a lot of europeans - who are only too happy to kick us around europe, given half a chance, for a variety of reasons throughout history.

I have to be honest, I think we need a man like this - this is what is lacking with the three main parties: They are afraid to open their mouths - as we saw on thursday night. Unless they are total idiots, or live on the moon, they must know this PC nonsense isn"t mainstream believe; I believe in a lot of cases they are scared of losing their big salaries, so they stick with their out of touch, left-wing, liberal parties and organisations. Mr Farage, in my opnion, gave a very good account of himself: Not to racist, not too liberal - just in touch with the people. We need a leader who looks out for Britain - and it"s people; frankly I couldn"t really care about the rest - whether it is the USA or the Gambia; they elect their own goverments, and it"s their job to look after their people - without our cash. We should nurture friendly relations with them - BUT NOT WITH OUR MONEY UNLESS IT IS TO OUR ADVANTAGE.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

Octopus - having invented some statistics, assumed the basis of my comments and projected your insecure and vile racist views on the entire population what would you want an answer from anyone else for - clearly you are happy to live in a fantasy of your own making.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[DaveUK]

Hi Dave, I won"t go into the reason I chose octopus - sought of personal.

Anyway, well done for sticking up for our American cousins, although, they are big enough to look after themselves, I think, although I didn"t detect any racism myself - mind you in this day and age it"s usualy OK if the victim is a white Christian. I agree Mr Farage can be a bit rude, although sometimes you need a bit of fire in your belly, to get your point across - especialy in the snake pit of the EU; shrinking violets need not apply. What you have to remember, is we British are not very popular with a lot of europeans - who are only too happy to kick us around europe, given half a chance, for a variety of reasons throughout history.

I have to be honest, I think we need a man like this - this is what is lacking with the three main parties: They are afraid to open their mouths - as we saw on thursday night. Unless they are total idiots, or live on the moon, they must know this PC nonsense isn"t mainstream believe; I believe in a lot of cases they are scared of losing their big salaries, so they stick with their out of touch, left-wing, liberal parties and organisations. Mr Farage, in my opnion, gave a very good account of himself: Not to racist, not too liberal - just in touch with the people. We need a leader who looks out for Britain - and it"s people; frankly I couldn"t really care about the rest - whether it is the USA or the Gambia; they elect their own goverments, and it"s their job to look after their people - without our cash. We should nurture friendly relations with them - BUT NOT WITH OUR MONEY UNLESS IT IS TO OUR ADVANTAGE.

I agree that mainstream politics has "chickned out" of any debate about immigraion or multiculturalism, which is why reactionary demigogues like Farage and Griffin are being heard. If anyone of the serious parties had the guts to tackle these issues in a meaningful and honnest way, these men would dissapear back to the obscure political fringes from whence they came.
I think one of the best spokesmen for these issues that manages to discuss it seriously without coming over as racist or reactionary is Peter Hitchens....although I'm with his Brother Christopher when it comes to Peter's religious beleifs.

Thanks by the way, it certainly was well done of me to come out in deffence of America, as 99.9% of the time I disagree with their politics, both domestic and abroard, I have reservatons about aspects of their culture, and their media is largely a joke.

[octopus]

Hi,

Octopus - having invented some statistics, assumed the basis of my comments and projected your insecure and vile racist views on the entire population what would you want an answer from anyone else for - clearly you are happy to live in a fantasy of your own making.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Greg, a word of advice don"t ever join the diplomatic service - YOU WOULD CAUSE 111! stick to teaching ( a lot of academics do live in a fantasy world), or whatever you do! You must know what you are saying is nonesense. Everybody I meet is screaming out for someone like Farage. You say I am living in a fantasy world - Look at the statistics for, or should I say against - 67%. against the burka. What does that alone, tell you? Most people view this influx of foriegn "workers" as a invasion of our great country. But they really aren"t racist, you know. Were our parents and grandparents racist for fighting in two world wars - OF COURSE NOT! THEY DID WHAT HAD TO BE DONE! Hitler planned to take over our way of life; others will as well if we let them, now in the 21st century.

Of course you will say what Don said: Then why don"t people vote for them? Answer? Because they think it"s a wasted vote, like you, are worried about their true intentions, or others are worried they are going to lose their social benefits - might actualy have to get a job. The real reason is that they don"t want to come out of their comfort zones - I KNOW PEOPLE LIKE THAT! They moan about PC, immigration, but still vote for the same old parties, who like you, live in closed world, on this subject. When things DO get worse, crime, unemployment, dare I say it, racist that I am immigration and a negative effect on their everyday lives - then you will see their share of the vote go up; I will be proved right on this. As I say, the last 17 years, we"ve seen nothing yet - the next 17, we will see everything, I strongly believe

I can assure you it is not I, but you, who is living in a fantasy world, if you can"t see this. Eventually, the people you fear will be running the UK - If not, then the people I fear, which would be much much worse, I can promise you.

[Midas]

I have to be honest, I think we need a man like this - this is what is lacking with the three main parties: They are afraid to open their mouths - as we saw on thursday night. Unless they are total idiots, or live on the moon, they must know this PC nonsense isn"t mainstream believe; I believe in a lot of cases they are scared of losing their big salaries, so they stick with their out of touch, left-wing, liberal parties and organisations. Mr Farage, in my opnion, gave a very good account of himself: Not to racist, not too liberal - just in touch with the people. We need a leader who looks out for Britain - and it"s people; frankly I couldn"t really care about the rest - whether it is the USA or the Gambia; they elect their own goverments, and it"s their job to look after their people - without our cash. We should nurture friendly relations with them - BUT NOT WITH OUR MONEY UNLESS IT IS TO OUR ADVANTAGE.

I have to agree with what you say to a large degree, particularly about the need for politicians like Nigel Farage. As for the man himself, I suspect Greg has it about right, an odious little oik was, I think, the expression, but one can't deny that he's an excellent and forthright speaker who says what many people want to hear, something far too many politicians are afraid of doing. Perhaps if we had more politicians who were somewhat more pleasant in their character than him, but equally in touch with what the average man/woman in the street sees as the issues of the day, and doesn't pussyfoot round the edges of issues because of fear of being politically incorrect or upsetting a few minorities, we'd be on the right track to getting Britain back to how it should be, a place that's for the law-abiding and socially responsible British!

[octopus]

I have to agree with what you say to a large degree, particularly about the need for politicians like Nigel Farage. As for the man himself, I suspect Greg has it about right, an odious little oik was, I think, the expression, but one can't deny that he's an excellent and forthright speaker who says what many people want to hear, something far too many politicians are afraid of doing. Perhaps if we had more politicians who were somewhat more pleasant in their character than him, but equally in touch with what the average man/woman in the street sees as the issues of the day, and doesn't pussyfoot round the edges of issues because of fear of being politically incorrect or upsetting a few minorities, we'd be on the right track to getting Britain back to how it should be, a place that's for the law-abiding and socially responsible British!

The bottom line is I think he would get results; this is not a popularity contest. The others to the left of UKIP, frankly haven"t got clue on these issues.

[octopus]

I agree that mainstream politics has "chickned out" of any debate about immigraion or multiculturalism, which is why reactionary demigogues like Farage and Griffin are being heard. If anyone of the serious parties had the guts to tackle these issues in a meaningful and honnest way, these men would dissapear back to the obscure political fringes from whence they came.
I think one of the best spokesmen for these issues that manages to discuss it seriously without coming over as racist or reactionary is Peter Hitchens....although I'm with his Brother Christopher when it comes to Peter's religious beleifs.

Thanks by the way, it certainly was well done of me to come out in deffence of America, as 99.9% of the time I disagree with their politics, both domestic and abroard, I have reservatons about aspects of their culture, and their media is largely a joke.

Hi dave, a bit to obvious isn"t it? Everybody seems to mention Nigel Farage"s apparent racism - but Bob Crow was a lot more hostile to the Americans, than Nigel was, in my opnion; this would have offended a lot of Americans I think.

Quite often it is in our interests to be friendly with America; we would almost certainly have lost WW2, had we had no help from across the Atlantic. To say nothing of all the other military, financial assistance and business since, and before.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi dave, a bit to obvious isn"t it? Everybody seems to mention Nigel Farage"s apparent racism - but Bob Crow was a lot more hostile to the Americans, than Nigel was, in my opnion; this would have offended a lot of Americans I think.

Quite often it is in our interests to be friendly with America; we would almost certainly have lost WW2, had we had no help from across the Atlantic. To say nothing of all the other military, financial assistance and business since, and before.

Hi,

Bob Crow on the other hand is not a politician and it is not his job to represent people other than those who have been foolish enough to elect him to his Union - Big Money - Small Beer!

Farage on the other hand is leader of an openly pro EU membership group of criminals with convictions for racism, violence, incitement, Holocaust denial alone and further Nigel Farage's Pan EU Political Party EFD grouping advocates sexual intollerance, the murder of African immigrants, anti Judaism and support of revival of the Nazi Party.

Firstly may I congratulate Mike Nattrass MEP for following the clear and honourable lead of Nikki Sinclaire MEP who had chosen to disassociate herself from the overt corruption of UKIP and the very clear and duplicitous lies of Lord Pearson. They now both stand as Independent MEPs yet both still members of UKIP.

It would be interesting as I believe both would win if they were to stand amongst the 36 also rans for places on UKIP NEC.

UKIP's titular Party leader Lord Pearson is an outright and award winning Zionist with extreme racist views, as exposed by The News of The World, from his own talking tour in America.

UKIP's past Deputy leader the fraud David Bannerman MEP is a liar and a cheat who is currently under investigation for fraud and money laundering with Stuart Agnew MEP.

The newly appointed UKIP Deputy Leader Lord Monkton is a thoroughly dishonest and corrupt individual a liar, a plagiarist and a cheat who wears a Nobel Prize Winner's pin claiming to have won a nobel prize yet the Nebel Committee reject his lies, whilst Monkton is on lecture tours he consistently lies and seeks to pass himself off as a member of the House of Lords which he is not and unlawfully using the registered mark of the HoL which he is expressly forbidden to do under passing off laws. He lays claim to being a scientific adviser to Margaret Thatcher's Government which he never was and he lays claim to medical discoveries which he can not define nor can he produce a single review paper or patent number to substyantiate his claims which in view of the nature of the squalid little man would indicate he is telling yet more lies.

Stuart Agnew MEP is together with Lord Pearson and perifferally Nigel Farage is under investigation by The Electoral Commission for fraud, money laundering, deliberate conspiracy to deceive, breach of electoral law as openly admitted on video to a young lady on Daniel Foggo's team at The Sunday Times who they were seeking to divest of money!

I understand Derek Clark MEP Geriatric, Mike Nattrass MEP, Graham Booth MEP rtd., Geoffrey Titford MEP rtd., and others are all still under investigation for financial irregularities of a criminal nature.

You will also remember UKIP under David Lott, Nigel Farage and the ghastly creep, serial failure promoter of racism and anti Jewish views Mark Croucher were all involved in a dissapearing act of tax payers' money when they took £1/4 Million to fund a petition which never took place and was a thinly veiled system for milking addresses to contact by 'Ashford Call Center' fronted by Nigel Farage MEP and de facto leader, Alan Bown the professional gambler and ex bookie, John Moran and Terry Quaterman during which time £1/4 Million was paid in one cheque into a private bank account from Ashford, credit card payments were laundered through Graham Booth MEP rtd. Hotel and Nigel Farage paid £1/4 Million into one of his accounts, in The Isle of Mann.

Interestingly the Chairman at the time - David Bannerman announced that more than 85% of the money collected by Ashford never reached the party and ever since Douglas Denny and others have been seeking to obfuscate the truth and telling endless lies to try to cover up the truth. I estimate that besides the £2 Million plus Nigel Farage admitted trousering at a boozy lunch with the press club (over and above his salary and utilised expenses) there must be at least another £2 Million gone in the same general direction.

Consider the fact that these people believe they are above the law yet they are the Law Makers and yesterday they were reprieved by ignoring British Justice and an appeal to the House of Lords and were reliant on something of a reprieve for their clear and unarguable guilt of being in breach of electoral law yet they had the benefit on a 4 to 3 decision in the EU Regional Supreme Court - How relieved UKIP must be that we are members of the EU!!

Perhaps that explains why politically Farage does so well but a monkey in silk is a monkey no less and I incline to disagree with Midas and would opine that for all his skill as a performing monkey Nigel Farage has made it more than abundantly clear that the higher up the tree the monkey climes the more you see its Rs.

I have no pleasure or desire to be represented by leadership that plays to the gutter when the Organ at hand has a very popular tune and lies silent for lack of a competent organ grinder.

UKIP are so befouled they are unfit for purpose and I agree with Midas when he says we need other politicians who are forthright - perhaps not oiks, bully boys, racists, anti Jewis, homophobic and fundamentally the scum of the earth with whom no decent person would wish to be associated.

Regards,
Greg_ L-W.

[DaveUK]

Hi dave, a bit to obvious isn"t it? Everybody seems to mention Nigel Farage"s apparent racism - but Bob Crow was a lot more hostile to the Americans, than Nigel was, in my opnion; this would have offended a lot of Americans I think.

Quite often it is in our interests to be friendly with America; we would almost certainly have lost WW2, had we had no help from across the Atlantic. To say nothing of all the other military, financial assistance and business since, and before.

No, I don't think that was the case at all. Bob Crow is clearly NOT the most eloquent speaker in the world. I think it's fair to say he was attacking American policy, rather than making facile remarks about Amerian people. Also, Bob Crow is not seeking power as a politician, Farage is.

As for the popularity of UKIP, I think it's very often over played. Over the last 10 years I've lived in different areas of the country, all with differing population mixes. They don't seem to figure at all in any discussions I've encountered. They seem to be regarded as fringe party with reactionary policies, that would spell ecconmic and social disaster for Britain, not to mention the trashing of our reputation abroard. We'd have to have much closer ties and greater reliance on the US, something which most British people would find uncomfortable.

Being closely allied to the US hasn't done us much good over the last decade. It did us no good in the early1980's when we were fighting Argentinian neo fascists. It did us no good when republican terrorists were attacking us.
There might never have been a WW2 had American companies not bankrolled Hitlers rise to power. During the Battle of Britain, Roosavelt and the American people wanted nothing to do with it. Roosavelt won the 1940 election on a "no Euro war for the US" ticket. Even after we pledged troops to the south pacific, America refused to commit to Europe. Hitler declared war on the US in Deceber 41, so they had no option but to "help out". The 3 million strong US fascist party were very clear who's side they were on.
We'd be better to treat the US the same way as China does, as a country to do business with and nothing more.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

Dave your points about America are but the tip of the iceberg - had we had the energy left at the end of the WWI we might have had the backing of America and have negotiated a more intelligent peace treaty which was largely demanded by France as vengeance and to prevent what happened immediately after the Franco German War in the late 1800s when France THOUGHT the treaty crippled Germany but the debt was paid off very rapidly.

Less avarice from America might have led to better terms.

We must also not overlook the irrefutable fact that Churchill was as thick as brick when it came to economics - a fact hugely exploited by America in WWII where they all but bankrupt Britain and realistically turned up once the outcome was decided - though we lacked the clout to end the war - by 1942 when American troops were coming in in numbers they were clearly the ones with energy!

I value America as an ally and welcome them as friends but those two roles are NOT interchangeable it seems.

There is a great deal of anti British rhetoric being whipped up over BP (which is no longer British!) having complied with ALL the safety regulations imposed by The US Government and employed a US firm to cap and pipe the well - perhaps America should stop blaming Britain which had no part in the cock up America created for itself.

In passing when can we expect America to pay the due compensation for all those sad and slaughtered people they killed in Bhopal where compensation was promised by America yet 25 years on they have yet to receive it - that is 1.1/2 generations late to the shame of America.

May we also know how America tollerates the vile Mad elleinne Allbrights vitriolic anti British speeches and actions yet still pretends to be our friend?

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

No, I don't think that was the case at all. Bob Crow is clearly NOT the most eloquent speaker in the world. I think it's fair to say he was attacking American policy, rather than making facile remarks about Amerian people. Also, Bob Crow is not seeking power as a politician, Farage is.

As for the popularity of UKIP, I think it's very often over played. Over the last 10 years I've lived in different areas of the country, all with differing population mixes. They don't seem to figure at all in any discussions I've encountered. They seem to be regarded as fringe party with reactionary policies, that would spell ecconmic and social disaster for Britain, not to mention the trashing of our reputation abroard. We'd have to have much closer ties and greater reliance on the US, something which most British people would find uncomfortable.

Being closely allied to the US hasn't done us much good over the last decade. It did us no good in the early1980's when we were fighting Argentinian neo fascists. It did us no good when republican terrorists were attacking us.
There might never have been a WW2 had American companies not bankrolled Hitlers rise to power. During the Battle of Britain, Roosavelt and the American people wanted nothing to do with it. Roosavelt won the 1940 election on a "no Euro war for the US" ticket. Even after we pledged troops to the south pacific, America refused to commit to Europe. Hitler declared war on the US in Deceber 41, so they had no option but to "help out". The 3 million strong US fascist party were very clear who's side they were on.
We'd be better to treat the US the same way as China does, as a country to do business with and nothing more.

Good morning, Dave. The fact Bob Crow was on the panal tells me his comments are just as valid as Nigel Farage"s. The Trade Union movement colletively, has millions of members, and is a very important part of many British peoples lives - to say nothing of their association with the Labour party for many years; more important than Nigel Farage, really. I don"t accuse him of racism, just hostility towards America.

The popularity of UKIP, will increase as the people of the UK get hungry: When their jobs are taken by overseas workers, for a fraction of the cost, when they can"t have their two weeks in spain, when they can"t pay their rent or mortgage, when they see the number foriegn people taking over their cities. On the Law and order front: Criminals not being punished - sometimes for serious crimes, the law abiding, bearing the wrath of the law - because they are ready cash machines. When they get "pig sick", of paying through the nose on income tax; the tax threshold is still on poverty level. I could go all night and all day about these different factors. The truth is most people don"t know who UKIP are! On marketing, they are probably as ineffcient as the three main parties are on their out of touch policies.
Once they get this right, then the rest will slide into place. Politics is a business like any other - selling a product. The product UKIP have got, a lot of people want, trust me, all they have to do is sell it to the people more. As I said to Greg, the next 17 years will see some very tough times in our everday lives, UKIP, I think will play a big part. After all, they have only been formed 17 years, nothing for a political party; the other three main parties have a collective history of hundreds of years.

True, our American friends don"t always help. However, for WW2 alone, we owe them a great debt. Had they not help us defeat Hitler, they would have probably had a lot more to lose than we had - A HELL OF A LOT OF JEWS IN THE USA, in promienent and high places as well. As we all know, Hitler didn"t have a lot of time for Jews. So the ironic thing is, those US banks your speaking of probably assisted the nazis in their quest to wipe the jews off the face of the earth; America is the last place on earth you would expect this help to Hitler to come from. I think it was a foregone conclusion that the USA would have joined the war at some stage, bearing all this in mind.

[octopus]

Hi,

Bob Crow on the other hand is not a politician and it is not his job to represent people other than those who have been foolish enough to elect him to his Union - Big Money - Small Beer!

Farage on the other hand is leader of an openly pro EU membership group of criminals with convictions for racism, violence, incitement, Holocaust denial alone and further Nigel Farage's Pan EU Political Party EFD grouping advocates sexual intollerance, the murder of African immigrants, anti Judaism and support of revival of the Nazi Party.

Firstly may I congratulate Mike Nattrass MEP for following the clear and honourable lead of Nikki Sinclaire MEP who had chosen to disassociate herself from the overt corruption of UKIP and the very clear and duplicitous lies of Lord Pearson. They now both stand as Independent MEPs yet both still members of UKIP.

It would be interesting as I believe both would win if they were to stand amongst the 36 also rans for places on UKIP NEC.

UKIP's titular Party leader Lord Pearson is an outright and award winning Zionist with extreme racist views, as exposed by The News of The World, from his own talking tour in America.

UKIP's past Deputy leader the fraud David Bannerman MEP is a liar and a cheat who is currently under investigation for fraud and money laundering with Stuart Agnew MEP.

The newly appointed UKIP Deputy Leader Lord Monkton is a thoroughly dishonest and corrupt individual a liar, a plagiarist and a cheat who wears a Nobel Prize Winner's pin claiming to have won a nobel prize yet the Nebel Committee reject his lies, whilst Monkton is on lecture tours he consistently lies and seeks to pass himself off as a member of the House of Lords which he is not and unlawfully using the registered mark of the HoL which he is expressly forbidden to do under passing off laws. He lays claim to being a scientific adviser to Margaret Thatcher's Government which he never was and he lays claim to medical discoveries which he can not define nor can he produce a single review paper or patent number to substyantiate his claims which in view of the nature of the squalid little man would indicate he is telling yet more lies.

Stuart Agnew MEP is together with Lord Pearson and perifferally Nigel Farage is under investigation by The Electoral Commission for fraud, money laundering, deliberate conspiracy to deceive, breach of electoral law as openly admitted on video to a young lady on Daniel Foggo's team at The Sunday Times who they were seeking to divest of money!

I understand Derek Clark MEP Geriatric, Mike Nattrass MEP, Graham Booth MEP rtd., Geoffrey Titford MEP rtd., and others are all still under investigation for financial irregularities of a criminal nature.

You will also remember UKIP under David Lott, Nigel Farage and the ghastly creep, serial failure promoter of racism and anti Jewish views Mark Croucher were all involved in a dissapearing act of tax payers' money when they took £1/4 Million to fund a petition which never took place and was a thinly veiled system for milking addresses to contact by 'Ashford Call Center' fronted by Nigel Farage MEP and de facto leader, Alan Bown the professional gambler and ex bookie, John Moran and Terry Quaterman during which time £1/4 Million was paid in one cheque into a private bank account from Ashford, credit card payments were laundered through Graham Booth MEP rtd. Hotel and Nigel Farage paid £1/4 Million into one of his accounts, in The Isle of Mann.

Interestingly the Chairman at the time - David Bannerman announced that more than 85% of the money collected by Ashford never reached the party and ever since Douglas Denny and others have been seeking to obfuscate the truth and telling endless lies to try to cover up the truth. I estimate that besides the £2 Million plus Nigel Farage admitted trousering at a boozy lunch with the press club (over and above his salary and utilised expenses) there must be at least another £2 Million gone in the same general direction.

Consider the fact that these people believe they are above the law yet they are the Law Makers and yesterday they were reprieved by ignoring British Justice and an appeal to the House of Lords and were reliant on something of a reprieve for their clear and unarguable guilt of being in breach of electoral law yet they had the benefit on a 4 to 3 decision in the EU Regional Supreme Court - How relieved UKIP must be that we are members of the EU!!

Perhaps that explains why politically Farage does so well but a monkey in silk is a monkey no less and I incline to disagree with Midas and would opine that for all his skill as a performing monkey Nigel Farage has made it more than abundantly clear that the higher up the tree the monkey climes the more you see its Rs.

I have no pleasure or desire to be represented by leadership that plays to the gutter when the Organ at hand has a very popular tune and lies silent for lack of a competent organ grinder.

UKIP are so befouled they are unfit for purpose and I agree with Midas when he says we need other politicians who are forthright - perhaps not oiks, bully boys, racists, anti Jewis, homophobic and fundamentally the scum of the earth with whom no decent person would wish to be associated.

Regards,
Greg_ L-W.

Bob Crow is an important fiqure in the trade union movement - so his comments are very important to a lot of people; in real terms way bigger, than the "performing monkey", as you described him. If Mr Crow was not important, he would not have been invited to appear alongside the "performing monkey". The point is, if I was an American, I would have been insulted far more by him, than Mr

[octopus]

Hi,

Bob Crow on the other hand is not a politician and it is not his job to represent people other than those who have been foolish enough to elect him to his Union - Big Money - Small Beer!

Farage on the other hand is leader of an openly pro EU membership group of criminals with convictions for racism, violence, incitement, Holocaust denial alone and further Nigel Farage's Pan EU Political Party EFD grouping advocates sexual intollerance, the murder of African immigrants, anti Judaism and support of revival of the Nazi Party.

Firstly may I congratulate Mike Nattrass MEP for following the clear and honourable lead of Nikki Sinclaire MEP who had chosen to disassociate herself from the overt corruption of UKIP and the very clear and duplicitous lies of Lord Pearson. They now both stand as Independent MEPs yet both still members of UKIP.

It would be interesting as I believe both would win if they were to stand amongst the 36 also rans for places on UKIP NEC.

UKIP's titular Party leader Lord Pearson is an outright and award winning Zionist with extreme racist views, as exposed by The News of The World, from his own talking tour in America.

UKIP's past Deputy leader the fraud David Bannerman MEP is a liar and a cheat who is currently under investigation for fraud and money laundering with Stuart Agnew MEP.

The newly appointed UKIP Deputy Leader Lord Monkton is a thoroughly dishonest and corrupt individual a liar, a plagiarist and a cheat who wears a Nobel Prize Winner's pin claiming to have won a nobel prize yet the Nebel Committee reject his lies, whilst Monkton is on lecture tours he consistently lies and seeks to pass himself off as a member of the House of Lords which he is not and unlawfully using the registered mark of the HoL which he is expressly forbidden to do under passing off laws. He lays claim to being a scientific adviser to Margaret Thatcher's Government which he never was and he lays claim to medical discoveries which he can not define nor can he produce a single review paper or patent number to substyantiate his claims which in view of the nature of the squalid little man would indicate he is telling yet more lies.

Stuart Agnew MEP is together with Lord Pearson and perifferally Nigel Farage is under investigation by The Electoral Commission for fraud, money laundering, deliberate conspiracy to deceive, breach of electoral law as openly admitted on video to a young lady on Daniel Foggo's team at The Sunday Times who they were seeking to divest of money!

I understand Derek Clark MEP Geriatric, Mike Nattrass MEP, Graham Booth MEP rtd., Geoffrey Titford MEP rtd., and others are all still under investigation for financial irregularities of a criminal nature.

You will also remember UKIP under David Lott, Nigel Farage and the ghastly creep, serial failure promoter of racism and anti Jewish views Mark Croucher were all involved in a dissapearing act of tax payers' money when they took £1/4 Million to fund a petition which never took place and was a thinly veiled system for milking addresses to contact by 'Ashford Call Center' fronted by Nigel Farage MEP and de facto leader, Alan Bown the professional gambler and ex bookie, John Moran and Terry Quaterman during which time £1/4 Million was paid in one cheque into a private bank account from Ashford, credit card payments were laundered through Graham Booth MEP rtd. Hotel and Nigel Farage paid £1/4 Million into one of his accounts, in The Isle of Mann.

Interestingly the Chairman at the time - David Bannerman announced that more than 85% of the money collected by Ashford never reached the party and ever since Douglas Denny and others have been seeking to obfuscate the truth and telling endless lies to try to cover up the truth. I estimate that besides the £2 Million plus Nigel Farage admitted trousering at a boozy lunch with the press club (over and above his salary and utilised expenses) there must be at least another £2 Million gone in the same general direction.

Consider the fact that these people believe they are above the law yet they are the Law Makers and yesterday they were reprieved by ignoring British Justice and an appeal to the House of Lords and were reliant on something of a reprieve for their clear and unarguable guilt of being in breach of electoral law yet they had the benefit on a 4 to 3 decision in the EU Regional Supreme Court - How relieved UKIP must be that we are members of the EU!!

Perhaps that explains why politically Farage does so well but a monkey in silk is a monkey no less and I incline to disagree with Midas and would opine that for all his skill as a performing monkey Nigel Farage has made it more than abundantly clear that the higher up the tree the monkey climes the more you see its Rs.

I have no pleasure or desire to be represented by leadership that plays to the gutter when the Organ at hand has a very popular tune and lies silent for lack of a competent organ grinder.

UKIP are so befouled they are unfit for purpose and I agree with Midas when he says we need other politicians who are forthright - perhaps not oiks, bully boys, racists, anti Jewis, homophobic and fundamentally the scum of the earth with whom no decent person would wish to be associated.

Regards,
Greg_ L-W.

Make no mistake about, a lot of people still belong to a trade union - far more than belong to UKIP; Bob Crow is a bigger fiqure than the "performing monkey" , as you KEEP describing him. If Bob Crow was a nobody, and nobody valued his opnions, he wouldn"t have got an invitation to appear on Question Time. Many labour goverments would have been lost without the trade unions over the years. If I was an American I would have been offended by his remarks, more than the Mr Farage"s. How many people still belong to trade unions? I don"t know the exact number, but I would say a lot more than belong to UKIP, millions more, I think you"ll find. So what he says DOES count, Greg.


As for the rest of your post, it is mainly made up of insults, claims of racism, corruption and sharp practice, which you have told us about, countless times before. I really think it"s time you changed your record. I frankly wouldn"t want to be associated with YOU! You are very rude!

As for this racism by the EFD, Lord Pearson and others - including even myself: I am just a patriot like you, but live in the real world - I wish no harm to anyone. (repeating myself, now.) Lord Pearson"s supposed racism: I showed that to some people, guess what they said, what racism? As for the EFD, if they are as bad you say, guess who"s responsible for peoples interest in such organisations? Frankly, people like yourself, who keep on pushing these "leftie" half-baked 1960s notions that people like myself, Nigel Farage and Lord Pearson are racists. Racism to me is like KKK: lynchings burnings, rapes and other forms of brutality. Hitler"s policy against the jews, even on a slightly more acceptable note, South Africa during the years up to the end of white rule and the deep south in the USA, a few decades ago. THAT"S REAL RACISM! I don"t support any of those things, nor do most people. All most British people want is their own country back - if that makes us racist, then you better get used to it, because we are, and there are lots of us (there I go repeating myself again)! Really, all we are looking is good old, fashioned, common sense - try it some time!

[stevectaylor]

Hi GLW. Do I get the impression you don't like Nigel much?

[octopus]

Hi,

Dave your points about America are but the tip of the iceberg - had we had the energy left at the end of the WWI we might have had the backing of America and have negotiated a more intelligent peace treaty which was largely demanded by France as vengeance and to prevent what happened immediately after the Franco German War in the late 1800s when France THOUGHT the treaty crippled Germany but the debt was paid off very rapidly.

Less avarice from America might have led to better terms.

We must also not overlook the irrefutable fact that Churchill was as thick as brick when it came to economics - a fact hugely exploited by America in WWII where they all but bankrupt Britain and realistically turned up once the outcome was decided - though we lacked the clout to end the war - by 1942 when American troops were coming in in numbers they were clearly the ones with energy!

I value America as an ally and welcome them as friends but those two roles are NOT interchangeable it seems.

There is a great deal of anti British rhetoric being whipped up over BP (which is no longer British!) having complied with ALL the safety regulations imposed by The US Government and employed a US firm to cap and pipe the well - perhaps America should stop blaming Britain which had no part in the cock up America created for itself.

In passing when can we expect America to pay the due compensation for all those sad and slaughtered people they killed in Bhopal where compensation was promised by America yet 25 years on they have yet to receive it - that is 1.1/2 generations late to the shame of America.

May we also know how America tollerates the vile Mad elleinne Allbrights vitriolic anti British speeches and actions yet still pretends to be our friend?

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

You say Churchill was "thick as a brick" as regards to economics. Out of the following former British leaders who would think could best pull us through those dark years, 1939-1945? Sir Winston Churchill, Harold Wilson, Edward Heath (ha ha), Margaret Thatcher, Johh Major, Tony Blair Gordon Brown (he probably would have invited the Germans over, like he has the Muslims, and others) or our present leader. I think the answer is obvious, "thick as a brick, or not! You certainly wouldn"t be able insult Hitler"s successor, today, like you insult Nigel Farage, and other people, if any of the other leaders had been around at the time, and had to do what Churchill did, defeat Hitler! With the exception of the "Iron Lady", all the others, almost certainly would have failed, including the others I didn"t mention.

[DaveUK]

Good morning, Dave. The fact Bob Crow was on the panal tells me his comments are just as valid as Nigel Farage"s. The Trade Union movement colletively, has millions of members, and is a very important part of many British peoples lives - to say nothing of their association with the Labour party for many years; more important than Nigel Farage, really. I don"t accuse him of racism, just hostility towards America.

The popularity of UKIP, will increase as the people of the UK get hungry: When their jobs are taken by overseas workers, for a fraction of the cost, when they can"t have their two weeks in spain, when they can"t pay their rent or mortgage, when they see the number foriegn people taking over their cities. On the Law and order front: Criminals not being punished - sometimes for serious crimes, the law abiding, bearing the wrath of the law - because they are ready cash machines. When they get "pig sick", of paying through the nose on income tax; the tax threshold is still on poverty level. I could go all night and all day about these different factors. The truth is most people don"t know who UKIP are! On marketing, they are probably as ineffcient as the three main parties are on their out of touch policies.
Once they get this right, then the rest will slide into place. Politics is a business like any other - selling a product. The product UKIP have got, a lot of people want, trust me, all they have to do is sell it to the people more. As I said to Greg, the next 17 years will see some very tough times in our everday lives, UKIP, I think will play a big part. After all, they have only been formed 17 years, nothing for a political party; the other three main parties have a collective history of hundreds of years.

True, our American friends don"t always help. However, for WW2 alone, we owe them a great debt. Had they not help us defeat Hitler, they would have probably had a lot more to lose than we had - A HELL OF A LOT OF JEWS IN THE USA, in promienent and high places as well. As we all know, Hitler didn"t have a lot of time for Jews. So the ironic thing is, those US banks your speaking of probably assisted the nazis in their quest to wipe the jews off the face of the earth; America is the last place on earth you would expect this help to Hitler to come from. I think it was a foregone conclusion that the USA would have joined the war at some stage, bearing all this in mind.

Hi there.

I think there is a fine line between vehemantly opposing a countries policies, and racism. I don't think Bob Crow crossed that line, Farage did in my view.
I'm affraid I don't feel endebted to the US at all for their role in WW2. Just study the rhetoric that was coming out of the US pre 1941. They were quite happy to leave Europe to the Nazi's, and had no intention or desire to help at all. Leading industrialists and politicians are on record saying that it didn't matter to them who controlled Europe, so long as they could do business with them.
It shouldn't be forgotten either that dominance of the air and sea surrounding Britian was achieved without the US. Also, early involvemet by the US was by an large disasterous and set us back further rather than brought us closer to victory. One particular battle fought and lost by the US resulted in the largest capitulation in military history at that time.
The US love to revise history in their favor. The truth is, pre 1941 the US biggest fear was NOT Nazi domination of Europe, on the contrary, they were quite happy to see Hitler succeed. What they realy feared was Soviet domination of Europe. That is the real reason why after Hitler declared war on the US in 41 and dragged them kicking and screaming into WW2, they decided that Europe should be liberated, and protected from the inevitable Soviet invasion. By late 41, early 42, Hitler was in dire trouble in the Soviet union. Had the US not been involved, we wouldn't all be speaking German as they like to remind us, we would have been speaking Russian.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Bob Crow is an important fiqure in the trade union movement - so his comments are very important to a lot of people; in real terms way bigger, than the "performing monkey", as you described him. If Mr Crow was not important, he would not have been invited to appear alongside the "performing monkey". The point is, if I was an American, I would have been insulted far more by him, than Mr

Hi,

you will note Bob crow filled the seat usually filled by some trendy celeb I tend never to have heard of!

Bob Crow has a voter base that is miniscule when you consider our 65,000,000 population - even smaller than UKIP's which does at least amount to about 3% of the electorate - even if, under Farage's leadership they have out of the some 19,000 elected seats and offices less than 30 nation wide.

Sadly a monkey in silk is a monkey no less.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi GLW. Do I get the impression you don't like Nigel much?

Hi,

ST you may well be 'Trying to create the world in a day' but as you display here you grossly over simplify as in fact I do like Nigel Farage and for many years treated him as a friend but:
do I respect him - NO,
do I trust him - NO,
has he OQ - NO,
is he fit or competent to lead UKIP - NO,
is he reliable as a friend - NO,
has he probity - NO,
is he self effacing - NO,
is he ethical - NO,
is he moral - NO,

But do I like him - YES, he is a likeable rogue - but a barrow boy with the morality of a gutter snipe!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Hi,

you will note Bob crow filled the seat usually filled by some trendy celeb I tend never to have heard of!

Bob Crow has a voter base that is miniscule when you consider our 65,000,000 population - even smaller than UKIP's which does at least amount to about 3% of the electorate - even if, under Farage's leadership they have out of the some 19,000 elected seats and offices less than 30 nation wide.

Sadly a monkey in silk is a monkey no less.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

I was actualy refering to the trade union movement as a whole - the RMT is a part of that. Trade unions have been around for centuries, in one form or another; UKIP have not even been around for 20 years. A fair percentage of the UK population don"t even know who UKIP are; not surprising really, as they have only been around since the early 90s. On the other hand, the trade union movement has been around for centuries -everybodys grown up with them in our lives - so very few people wouldn"t know who they are. Also, Bob Crow, is not a politician as such - he is there to look after his members interests. Taken as a whole a lot more people than 3% of the voting public belong to a trade union. Trade unions, quite often, throughout the years have come out in support of one another. To say UKIP enjoy more poplularity than the trade union move movement, is not very realistic, in my view. And let"s not forget that when Labour were in power they were in a way part of the goverment; Labour were in power for many years during the 20th century. UKIP have never enjoyed that kind of power thus far.

As for the celebs everything from footballers to big brother winners - they don"t mean much to me either, in some cases - but worth millions, to themselves and the economy - far better known than most mainstream politicians that go on Question Time week in week out, certainly a lot more money, in some cases - AND A LOT MORE FOLLOWERS. Again, if they were nobodys, they wouldn"t be on Question Time.

[octopus]

Hi there.

I think there is a fine line between vehemantly opposing a countries policies, and racism. I don't think Bob Crow crossed that line, Farage did in my view.
I'm affraid I don't feel endebted to the US at all for their role in WW2. Just study the rhetoric that was coming out of the US pre 1941. They were quite happy to leave Europe to the Nazi's, and had no intention or desire to help at all. Leading industrialists and politicians are on record saying that it didn't matter to them who controlled Europe, so long as they could do business with them.
It shouldn't be forgotten either that dominance of the air and sea surrounding Britian was achieved without the US. Also, early involvemet by the US was by an large disasterous and set us back further rather than brought us closer to victory. One particular battle fought and lost by the US resulted in the largest capitulation in military history at that time.
The US love to revise history in their favor. The truth is, pre 1941 the US biggest fear was NOT Nazi domination of Europe, on the contrary, they were quite happy to see Hitler succeed. What they realy feared was Soviet domination of Europe. That is the real reason why after Hitler declared war on the US in 41 and dragged them kicking and screaming into WW2, they decided that Europe should be liberated, and protected from the inevitable Soviet invasion. By late 41, early 42, Hitler was in dire trouble in the Soviet union. Had the US not been involved, we wouldn't all be speaking German as they like to remind us, we would have been speaking Russian.

In the long run it would have mattered to the US very much if Hitler had won the war: Jewish bankers, Jewish bussinesmen, so on. For instance, today, there are far more jews in the USA, then Israel; a nazi victory would have mean"t their ultimate destuction. If all of europe had fallen, and Britain had fallen, the whole world, eventualy, would have probably come under nazi rule - including the USA; not good news for its millions of jews.

A little far fetched, some would agrue. But bear in mind Hitler"s allies: Japan, Italy Vichy France and all the pro-nazi factions in occupied europe from N Africa to Britain - possibly Ireland too -they would have got their united Ireland alright! I think that would have been enough to try for the greatest prize of all; the japanese certainly would have been up for it had all the US ships in the pacific fleet been neturalised at Pearl Habour.

The reality is, we couldn"t have done it without them! In terms of money, manpower, supplies and blood sweat and tears. it tooks us many decades to repay the debt in terms of finance, the "Iron Lady" made the last payment on that, if memory serves me correctly.

As for us speaking Russian, we came very close to that as well: The cuban missile crisis and the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, among other incidents. Also, a computer mal -function almost triggered a nuclear missile attack; mal-function was spotted before any harm could be done, or we wouldn"t be speaking any thing.

As for racism: This really does get quite childish at times, and borders on the sureal. To me racism is ethnic cleansing, aparthied and racial violence commited by groups such as the KKK and unjustly controling people because of their colour or creed. Today, you musn"t say "black board", you have to say "chalk board". Children at nursery school, sing "ba ba green sheep". Coming on to a more serious note, Lord Pearson (Greg"s best mate), was supposed to be racist for stating what any person that lives in the real world already knows. Nick Griffin, calling black people monkeys - shock, horror, probe! A bit childish, that"s all. You"re supposed to just allow these people to walk in, take over our way of life, unchallanged like Blair/Brown did - and what David Cameron is doing today. Everybody is scared to open their mouths apart from the people to right of David Cameron"s party; yet it is Ok for them to insult us, even threaten us with death. But if a white person was to insult a Muslim outside a Mosque - it"s handcuffs out - with that now, infamous phrase, "We were only obeying orders", coming from the Police Officer"s mouth. I wonder how he or she sleeps at night? If anything, we have inverted racism - and that is even nastier - and will get nastier still.

Mr Farage and Lord Pearson deserve a medal for making a stand on this issue - the other parties, frankly, deserve a white feather!

[octopus]

Hi GLW. Do I get the impression you don't like Nigel much?

About as much as I like Gordon Brown!

[octopus]

Hi,

ST you may well be 'Trying to create the world in a day' but as you display here you grossly over simplify as in fact I do like Nigel Farage and for many years treated him as a friend but:
do I respect him - NO,
do I trust him - NO,
has he OQ - NO,
is he fit or competent to lead UKIP - NO,
is he reliable as a friend - NO,
has he probity - NO,
is he self effacing - NO,
is he ethical - NO,
is he moral - NO,

But do I like him - YES, he is a likeable rogue - but a barrow boy with the morality of a gutter snipe!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

With friends like you, he doesen"t really need enimies. You really don"t give a very good impression of yourself, or the leave the independent EU Alliance. Is that all you, or your organisation can do, insult people?

[fubar]

who makes the rules???

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

With friends like you, he doesen"t really need enimies. You really don"t give a very good impression of yourself, or the leave the independent EU Alliance. Is that all you, or your organisation can do, insult people?

Hi,

I hear your opinion however please be so good as to provide one factual error I may have inadevertantly made.

Do also bear in mind I am speaking for MYSELF not as a Party since The INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance is exactly what it claims - INDEPENDENTS who are Allied on a single issue and prepared to subsume all other matters since ALL British Law is determined by the EU undemocratically.

Do be minded: These United Kingdoms are now, largely against the will of the informed peoples and by the betrayal of our own Politicians and Snivil Cervants a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, broken into emasculated Regions under a Common Purpose, ruled by a corrupt post democratic unelected Dictator Committee of a supra National supreme government in Brussels.

We owe this undemocratic malign self serving foreign and very allien government neither loyalty nor obedience.

It is not lawfully our government.

It is theirs.

It is our enemy and part of the greater enemy The New World Order.

That I like Nigel Farage does not preclude me from telling the truth about him.

I would not dream of insulting someone however that does not preclude me from telling the truth surely.

You may tell any lie you like - that is a matter of YOUR morality but please do not be personally offended when I expose the lies.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Hi,

I hear your opinion however please be so good as to provide one factual error I may have inadevertantly made.

Do also bear in mind I am speaking for MYSELF not as a Party since The INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance is exactly what it claims - INDEPENDENTS who are Allied on a single issue and prepared to subsume all other matters since ALL British Law is determined by the EU undemocratically.

Do be minded: These United Kingdoms are now, largely against the will of the informed peoples and by the betrayal of our own Politicians and Snivil Cervants a satellite state of the Greater European Empire, broken into emasculated Regions under a Common Purpose, ruled by a corrupt post democratic unelected Dictator Committee of a supra National supreme government in Brussels.

We owe this undemocratic malign self serving foreign and very allien government neither loyalty nor obedience.

It is not lawfully our government.

It is theirs.

It is our enemy and part of the greater enemy The New World Order.

That I like Nigel Farage does not preclude me from telling the truth about him.

I would not dream of insulting someone however that does not preclude me from telling the truth surely.

You may tell any lie you like - that is a matter of YOUR morality but please do not be personally offended when I expose the lies.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

It is not a question of errors, Greg - more a question of good manners. When you use the terms: "vile racist", "monkey", "xenophopic" and other insults - some people will take offence - your targets should be ethnics, MY GOD! I personaly, couldn"t care less, I"m not quite so sensitive as your Muslim chums. But don"t you think you"re letting yourself down a bit? As I say, if these words were directed in a racist sense - it would be WW3 from all the "leftie"and liberal section on this forum - as we all know!

Far from it, from me to advise you on your conduct towards Pearson, Farage and others, on and off this forum, but bear in mind your organisation, which you"re promoting with every post, does come under the spotlight, and does create a negative view with these offensive comments.

True, I can be direct as well, and in the main, my targets are guilty of far worse than what you accuse Nigel Farage, and UKIP of. but you seem to be conducting a one man war against UKIP; bordering, quite frankly, on blind hatred.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

It is not a question of errors, Greg - more a question of good manners. When you use the terms: "vile racist", "monkey", "xenophopic" and other insults -

I'll let you know if I ever want lessons in differentiation between facts and manners. This is a political discourse on ethics and facts not etiquette and boot licking.

some people will take offence -

If they are offended by facts so be it.

your targets should be ethnics,

What a revolting concept - Caucasian ethnics or Arian ethnics, Angles, Saxons or Jutes! I shall leave such hate filled matters to UKIP's EFD which is indubitably racist, anti Jewish and advocates extreme violence against certain cultural groups! AND of course the vile and hate filled BNP.

I have had more than my fill of the loading of the bodies race hate engenders as did my Father before me in Bergen Belsen - why am I not surprised you lack the integrity to put your identity to your unpleasant views.

MY GOD! I personaly, couldn"t care less, I"m not quite so sensitive as your Muslim chums.

Such Muslim friends as I believe I may have seem considerably less sensative than you! However I don't know the religion of many of my friends as it is fundamentally none of my damned business what choice of invented gods they choose and what superstitions.

I tend to find some of the most revolting and untrustworthy are those who insist on telling me they are christians at every opportunity!

But don"t you think you"re letting yourself down a bit?

Not one iota. However if you have a problem with honesty I suggest you cease reading and responding to my postings.

As I say, if these words were directed in a racist sense - it would be WW3 from all the "leftie"and liberal section on this forum - as we all know!

However as they are not I shall leave you to your sordid racial hatreds in utter contempt.

Far from it, from me to advise you on your conduct towards Pearson, Farage and others, on and off this forum,

Oh good - however I have not noticed you forebear an opportunity!

but bear in mind your organisation,

I don't have an organisation.

which you"re promoting with every post, does come under the spotlight, and does create a negative view with these offensive comments.

Then I would suggest you avoid INDEPENDENCE of thought and idea, avoid Alliance with others and stick to being ruled by the undemocratic and corrupt supra national EU along with the leadership of UKIP who are clearly embraced and comfortable in its bosoms.

True, I can be direct as well, and in the main, my targets are guilty of far worse than what you accuse Nigel Farage, and UKIP of.

Theft, impropriety, philandery, corruption, betrayal, lies, defamation, libel and default on debts, not to mention contempt for the British Courts and rule of law, deceit, fraud, money laundering, imorality - what have your friends been upto to compete with UKIP's leadership team?

but you seem to be conducting a one man war against UKIP; bordering, quite frankly, on blind hatred.

Far from a one man war to clean up UKIP and possibly make it electable for as you will be aware their MEPs do not publish accounts, are indollent, dishonest and in the main liars, cheats and criminals.

Please do not consider my desire for the payment of the £12,500 they owe me and acquittal of the debts to the Courts from which they seek to shelter by dishonesty, duplicity and the skirts of The EU behind which they shelter as anything so prosaic as 'blind hatred' contempt, disgust and revulsion would be more apposite - but their morals may suit you but you have already boasted of being a Racists - next I suppose you will be seeking addulation for having chosen as YOUR superstition christianity of some sort!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

I'll let you know if I ever want lessons in differentiation between facts and manners. This is a political discourse on ethics and facts not etiquette and boot licking.



If they are offended by facts so be it.



What a revolting concept - Caucasian ethnics or Arian ethnics, Angles, Saxons or Jutes! I shall leave such hate filled matters to UKIP's EFD which is indubitably racist, anti Jewish and advocates extreme violence against certain cultural groups! AND of course the vile and hate filled BNP.

I have had more than my fill of the loading of the bodies race hate engenders as did my Father before me in Bergen Belsen - why am I not surprised you lack the integrity to put your identity to your unpleasant views.



Such Muslim friends as I believe I may have seem considerably less sensative than you! However I don't know the religion of many of my friends as it is fundamentally none of my damned business what choice of invented gods they choose and what superstitions.

I tend to find some of the most revolting and untrustworthy are those who insist on telling me they are christians at every opportunity!



Not one iota. However if you have a problem with honesty I suggest you cease reading and responding to my postings.



However as they are not I shall leave you to your sordid racial hatreds in utter contempt.



Oh good - however I have not noticed you forebear an opportunity!



I don't have an organisation.



Then I would suggest you avoid INDEPENDENCE of thought and idea, avoid Alliance with others and stick to being ruled by the undemocratic and corrupt supra national EU along with the leadership of UKIP who are clearly embraced and comfortable in its bosoms.



Theft, impropriety, philandery, corruption, betrayal, lies, defamation, libel and default on debts, not to mention contempt for the British Courts and rule of law, deceit, fraud, money laundering, imorality - what have your friends been upto to compete with UKIP's leadership team?



Far from a one man war to clean up UKIP and possibly make it electable for as you will be aware their MEPs do not publish accounts, are indollent, dishonest and in the main liars, cheats and criminals.

Please do not consider my desire for the payment of the £12,500 they owe me and acquittal of the debts to the Courts from which they seek to shelter by dishonesty, duplicity and the skirts of The EU behind which they shelter as anything so prosaic as 'blind hatred' contempt, disgust and revulsion would be more apposite - but their morals may suit you but you have already boasted of being a Racists - next I suppose you will be seeking addulation for having chosen as YOUR superstition christianity of some sort!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

I wasn"t offering lessons on etiquette or bootlicking - just observing your rudeness; Nigel Farage displayed the reverse. To millions of people who watched that programme, he was polite, well mannered, well dressed and has a realistic outlook, and dares to say the things most of us are too scared to say - everything your not, in fact! Do ever consider giving UKIP a day off? You really do have a paranoria about Mr Farage and UKIP, don"t you? As I said to you before, every organisation from the village football team to the party in power has "bad eggs", it"s a fact of life, I"m afraid, I don"t like it any more than you do; 13 years of Labour rule tells us that.

So you think I"m a racist? Greg, You don"t know what racism is; I hope you never will. Unfortunately in the last several decades our education system has pushed this nonesense, of the white race, in particular, the English as being the evil force that enslaved the world for centuries within the British empire. I have seen this within my own family, it was even tried on me - as you can see it didn"t work, because I regard it as nonesense - as do most people of my generation and before. UKIP are trying to reverse this trend, and eventualy they will succeed, if not them, then someone like them. If they don"t heaven help us!

Our "leftie" friends mean well bless them, but like you, they are making the REAL racists work much easier; everybody from right-wing groups that advocate genocide to Islamic groups that fly planes into office blocks killing over three thousand people because they thought those office workers opposed Islam; I know who I regard as the greater menace in the world today - and it isn"t the guys with short haircuts and swastikas on their arms. Three thousand dead in one attack -THAT"S REAL RACISM!

[octopus]

I'll let you know if I ever want lessons in differentiation between facts and manners. This is a political discourse on ethics and facts not etiquette and boot licking.



If they are offended by facts so be it.



What a revolting concept - Caucasian ethnics or Arian ethnics, Angles, Saxons or Jutes! I shall leave such hate filled matters to UKIP's EFD which is indubitably racist, anti Jewish and advocates extreme violence against certain cultural groups! AND of course the vile and hate filled BNP.

I have had more than my fill of the loading of the bodies race hate engenders as did my Father before me in Bergen Belsen - why am I not surprised you lack the integrity to put your identity to your unpleasant views.



Such Muslim friends as I believe I may have seem considerably less sensative than you! However I don't know the religion of many of my friends as it is fundamentally none of my damned business what choice of invented gods they choose and what superstitions.

I tend to find some of the most revolting and untrustworthy are those who insist on telling me they are christians at every opportunity!



Not one iota. However if you have a problem with honesty I suggest you cease reading and responding to my postings.



However as they are not I shall leave you to your sordid racial hatreds in utter contempt.



Oh good - however I have not noticed you forebear an opportunity!



I don't have an organisation.



Then I would suggest you avoid INDEPENDENCE of thought and idea, avoid Alliance with others and stick to being ruled by the undemocratic and corrupt supra national EU along with the leadership of UKIP who are clearly embraced and comfortable in its bosoms.



Theft, impropriety, philandery, corruption, betrayal, lies, defamation, libel and default on debts, not to mention contempt for the British Courts and rule of law, deceit, fraud, money laundering, imorality - what have your friends been upto to compete with UKIP's leadership team?



Far from a one man war to clean up UKIP and possibly make it electable for as you will be aware their MEPs do not publish accounts, are indollent, dishonest and in the main liars, cheats and criminals.

Please do not consider my desire for the payment of the £12,500 they owe me and acquittal of the debts to the Courts from which they seek to shelter by dishonesty, duplicity and the skirts of The EU behind which they shelter as anything so prosaic as 'blind hatred' contempt, disgust and revulsion would be more apposite - but their morals may suit you but you have already boasted of being a Racists - next I suppose you will be seeking addulation for having chosen as YOUR superstition christianity of some sort!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Another thing Greg, my details are displayed in my public view for anybody who cares to look - I have nothing to be ashamed of, and I stand by everything I say. You strike me as kind, caring person, and on some topics talk a lot of sense, but at the the same time idealistic, to the point of being naive and foolish. Trust me, there"s far worse than UKIP and myself out there - I don"t think that, I know that; but to each their own. As for the question of me being a fanatical Christian - only by birth, and we christians don"t stone people to death, either, nor mutilate women, nor cut off peoples hands, nor still practice slavery, legaly - AND YOU WONDER WHY I CALL THEM SAVAGES? That really makes my unpleasant views seem quite mild really, doesn"t it. A lot of people need to learn the difference betwen racism and protecting your heritiage and way of life - YOU ARE ONE SUCH PERSON, I"M AFRAID! If you want another Bergen Belsen keep pushing your ill-informed, views- THAT"S THE WAY YOU"ll GET IT! The real bigots love people like you and your mate kiwi. Still up to you.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Another thing Greg, my details are displayed in my public view for anybody who cares to look - I have nothing to be ashamed of, and I stand by everything I say.

How embarrassing for you as they are so contradictory and clearly both racist and bigotted.

You strike me as kind, caring person, and on some topics talk a lot of sense, but at the the same time idealistic, to the point of being naive and foolish.

I dealistic is beyond doubt a compliment as if you aim for the stars you will help more people than if you gaze at your navel and ring fence your prejudices.

Trust me, there"s far worse than UKIP and myself out there - I don"t think that, I know that; but to each their own.

Well I'm pleased you are learning but it seems little have you learned about solutions. Start looking for workable solutions rather than foolish confrontations.

As for the question of me being a fanatical Christian - only by birth, and we christians don"t stone people to death, either, nor mutilate women, nor cut off peoples hands, nor still practice slavery, legaly - AND YOU WONDER WHY I CALL THEM SAVAGES?

No but they do shoot an awful lot of people and bomb them.

I believe you will find that wars started by christians have led to more deaths in the last millenia than all other wars put together and it is of course the barbarous views of christians that imposed 'The Final Solution' and the race hate of anti judaism.

Should we not remember the christians who murder Doctors in America for carrying out their legal medical duties.

Let us consider the barbarism of refusing euthenasia based on the bigotted and idiotic superstition of gods!

That really makes my unpleasant views seem quite mild really, doesn"t it.

If you believe at least 60,000,000 deaths in the last century in wars started by christians as quite mild just how barbarous is this god your ancestors invented for you?

A lot of people need to learn the difference betwen racism and protecting your heritiage and way of life - YOU ARE ONE SUCH PERSON, I"M AFRAID!

If you want another Bergen Belsen keep pushing your ill-informed, views- THAT"S THE WAY YOU"ll GET IT! The real bigots love people like you and your mate kiwi. Still up to you.

The real bigots are those who can not defend their principles by example and like christians set up death camps like Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz, Treblinka etc.

Your conterntions aimed at confrontation are just plain wrong.

Exposure to terrorism on the streets of Britain has been escalated by membership of the malign EU with its open border policies using Britain as a Milch Cow for the failed concept and the war crimes and crimes against humanity of the loudly proclaimed christian scum Anthony Charles Lynton Blair and the communist, abti British scum gathered around him in his cabinet.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

How embarrassing for you as they are so contradictory and clearly both racist and bigotted.



I dealistic is beyond doubt a compliment as if you aim for the stars you will help more people than if you gaze at your navel and ring fence your prejudices.



Well I'm pleased you are learning but it seems little have you learned about solutions. Start looking for workable solutions rather than foolish confrontations.



No but they do shoot an awful lot of people and bomb them.

I believe you will find that wars started by christians have led to more deaths in the last millenia than all other wars put together and it is of course the barbarous views of christians that imposed 'The Final Solution' and the race hate of anti judaism.

Should we not remember the christians who murder Doctors in America for carrying out their legal medical duties.

Let us consider the barbarism of refusing euthenasia based on the bigotted and idiotic superstition of gods!



If you believe at least 60,000,000 deaths in the last century in wars started by christians as quite mild just how barbarous is this god your ancestors invented for you?





The real bigots are those who can not defend their principles by example and like christians set up death camps like Bergen Belsen, Auschwitz, Treblinka etc.

Your conterntions aimed at confrontation are just plain wrong.

Exposure to terrorism on the streets of Britain has been escalated by membership of the malign EU with its open border policies using Britain as a Milch Cow for the failed concept and the war crimes and crimes against humanity of the loudly proclaimed christian scum Anthony Charles Lynton Blair and the communist, abti British scum gathered around him in his cabinet.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Hardly contradictory, all I want is, frankly, England for the English. If there are foreigners here - BY INVIITATION ONLY, ie the Gurkhas, others that have been of service to the UK, others at our discrection - ALL ISSUED WITH VISAS, WHICH CAN BE REVOKED AT ANY TIME. All we need really is some basic ground rules. Those ground rules meaning they are guests in our country, with not the same rights as the white majority. The alernative, what we have now, choas! They should have the right to be treated fairly, and with compassion, but not in postions of power - IT"S JUST TOO DANGEROUS! If we don"t follow this guide the BNP"s prediction could come true, of a Muslim Britain by 2060. If that prediction DID come true we could see Bergen Belsen again - WITH US AS THE CAMP INMATES;(or our decendants) would you fancy someone like "hook hand" as your camp Commandant? Let"s hope everybody becomes a "bigot" and adopts some common sense, otherwise I could have just given you a prophecy of Britain in the second half of this century and beyond.

The 20th century was the probably the most violent with 60,000,000 dead, as you say. But the 20th century is now in the anals of history. We have weapons we could have only dreamed of a hundred years ago, and untill now were mainly in the hands of christians. Right, here comes bigoted octopus again, or my real name Paul Geoffrey Gray, of Portsmouth, if you prefer, suppose these 21st century weapons fell into extreme Islamic hands. Bearing in mind they have a thought system geared into about the 15th century in european terms, it really is quite frighting: These people think it is normal to buy and sell other people, to mutilulate their women folk, stone young girls to death, cut of peoples hands for theft and publicly behead people. How can we afford to take any chances with people like this? You can give us all the history lessons you want, Greg, but it"s the future that worries me - If half of this proves to be come true, WW2 will seem like a back yard dispute. The Nazis and the Soviets both had a christian heritage - although more politics and and hatred than theology, they still conducted themselves in a comparatively civilsed manner compared to our Middle East chums - vile regimes by our standards yes, slightly better than some ME countries.

[Streetwalker]

Hardly contradictory, all I want is, frankly, England for the English. If there are foreigners here - BY INVIITATION ONLY, ie the Gurkhas, others that have been of service to the UK, others at our discrection - ALL ISSUED WITH VISAS, WHICH CAN BE REVOKED AT ANY TIME. All we need really is some basic ground rules. Those ground rules meaning they are guests in our country, with not the same rights as the white majority.

What rights would we be talking about when you say "with not the same rights as the white majority". Where do second and third generation black immigrants fall in the scheme of things,are they English or are we talking about making them stateless ??

Just want to get it quite clear where you are comming from.

[octopus]

What rights would we be talking about when you say "with not the same rights as the white majority". Where do second and third generation black immigrants fall in the scheme of things,are they English or are we talking about making them stateless ??

Just want to get it quite clear where you are comming from.

Every person in our country has the right to justice, live without fear, and walk the streets with their heads held high; this goes without saying. However, I admit I am against a multi-culture society for the reasons that have become apparent over the last five decades: We have seen racial tension, we have seen bigotory on BOTH sides - we have seen riots. Christian against Muslim, Black against white - and visa versa. Muslims in particular, insult us at the same time as taking our "handouts "sometimes to the tune of thousands of pounds a week, as supposed ayslum seekers. Many more creeds, cultures and colours arrive on our shores looking for us UK tax payers to solve their problems; the truth is we can"t.

If you create a melting pot like we have seen since the early 50s, it is a blue print for disaster. My parents, who were around at the time, were all for a multi-culture, at this time, but seeing the reality, since, realised it is the worst decision that any UK goverment has EVER made; millions of others, since, realise this too. The different races, unfortuately, will never get on, if they live together in large numbers - in small numbers, yes, possible - AND WITH TIGHT CONTROLS AND CONDTIONS; we British would have to in some of their countries.

As for making them stateless: In the cases of convicted yobs, criminals, long term unemployed, a problem in any way, shape or form - FIRST PLANE HOME! WE DON"T WANT THEM! In most cases they have only been arriving on our shores since, not long after the end of WW2. Trouble makers and spongers such as this we can"t afford them anyway. As for the ones that do play the game, hopefully not - but the well being of OUR WHITE INDGENOUS PEOPLE MUST COME FIRST; THEY WOULD PUT THEIR OWN PEPOLE FIRST - AS THEY SHOULD. In most cases their country of origin can be traced.

We are entering a new era, and it will be very different from years gone by. We may have to make some very tough decisions in the years to come, and this will be one of them, as some Muslims in particular, do make a habit of courting trouble, it seems.

The hate mongers and the ones mentioned certainly - IF ANY STATE WANTS THEM THAT IS. In fact they may be glad to go, if certain far-right parties gain power, they may be lucky to get away with their lives; the price for not listening to Enoch Powell in the 60s, when all this could have been avoided.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

the sooner the vile hatred and staggering insecurity of the society espoused by Paul Gray comesd to a natural and hopefully peacable end with its failing superstitions and determination to stir hatred where none exists the better.

I welcome the survival of the British values and culture, aspirations and aims which clearly have no place for race hate, religious bigotry and the introspective failure of society that Paul Gray represents - that our society is sliding into the gutter is so clear when such as he even admit their parents were brighter, more tolerant less insecure and without his hatred - when he misrepresents Enoch Powell with glib naivite and seeks social stagnation.

The view of such as Paul Gray have absolutely no place outside of the death camps of fascism.

I totally reject his fears and his hatreds as having no part in a Britain I value.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Hi,

the sooner the vile hatred and staggering insecurity of the society espoused by Paul Gray comesd to a natural and hopefully peacable end with its failing superstitions and determination to stir hatred where none exists the better.

I welcome the survival of the British values and culture, aspirations and aims which clearly have no place for race hate, religious bigotry and the introspective failure of society that Paul Gray represents - that our society is sliding into the gutter is so clear when such as he even admit their parents were brighter, more tolerant less insecure and without his hatred - when he misrepresents Enoch Powell with glib naivite and seeks social stagnation.

The view of such as Paul Gray have absolutely no place outside of the death camps of fascism.

I totally reject his fears and his hatreds as having no part in a Britain I value.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

Greg, have I ever used racist language, advocated genocide, or anything similar on this forum? I totaly reject all these things. if this is supposed to shock me it doesn"t! Unlike you, I haven"t gone through the "red brick" system that has destroyed the values of society which I, and millions hold dear.
I am against a multi-culture, yes - DOES THAT MAKE A PERSON RACIST? If it does, we could be living in Nazi Germany with its death camps; England"s supposed to be democracy, isn"t it? That is my view, and it is my birth right, to express that. I have never heard such nonesense in all my life.


As you are from that hippy generation that helped cause the rise of this wierd, sick and degenerate society, that takes normal views and values, and turns them into extreme and evil views when they are not, I shouldn"t be surprised really, should I? As for shutting me up - IN YOUR DREAMS! Maybe if your Indepentent EU, whatever, takes over, but not untill then, dream on. I think the last 50 years confirm my views and fears really, don"t you? Britain is finished, if we open the flood gates, like you seem to want.

I wouldn"t dream of trying to stop your rantings about anti-semitism, UKIP, EFD, Pearson, Farage (what this thread is supposed to be about) and now myself - I"m quite flattred, really. But this is a democracy, people do sometimes have views different to yours, I"m afraid. Stick to the Inderpendent leave EU - it"s where you belong with a load of dreamers and idealists - I LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD!

If these views offend you, I would suggest you stick with your own group, or give a few talks to a few "red brick" universities, where your idealistic, rubbish would go down very well, I would imagine - as you must be living on the moon I should think, if you think it is all in my mind. Turn on your TV, turn on your radio, pick up a paper, get on the net - better still get yourself down to the black ghettos and little Indias in our cities -OPEN YOUR EYES! It is all very real I"m afraid. But, as I say, it"s a democracy - dream on if you wish, whilst reading your copy of the GUARDIAN.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

never been near a red brick uni. Your understanding of politics and British values could clearly be written on the back of a postage stamp with a felt tip pen.

Politics is the pragmatic art of the posible not pandering to the extremist rantings of extremists who want to live in the misery and penuary of the 1950s!

You are absolutely correct I have absolutely nothing in common with your racist, anti Jewish, Islamaphobic views - nor do I set much store by the evils of christianity or any other damned fool superstitions.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[DaveUK]

It would seem to me that there are some racialist ignoramouses in this thread that are hijacking the term multi culturalism and bluring it's meaning with their racialist disdain for a multi racial society.
I too am against certain forms of rampant multi culturalism that have ghetoised many cities and towns in the UK, caused sectarian devides and hampered integration. Britian has a very rich, varied and ancient culture. It's a pity that our politicians have not attepted to persuade imigrants to adopt and embrace our culture more readily.
There is every reason to celebrate the fact that Britain is a multi racial society, we have benefited greatly from it in all sorts of ways. Our health and public transport services would be decimated and left stood idle were it not for multi racialism.
What I am reading here is racialist sentiments dressed up as opposition to multi culturalism. It's very poorly done, not very well hidden or articulated, and makes those spouting it look stupid. Give it up, this ideological fascist white eutopia is never going to happen.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

What I am reading here is racialist sentiments dressed up as opposition to multi culturalism. It's very poorly done, not very well hidden or articulated, and makes those spouting it look stupid. Give it up, this ideological fascist white eutopia is never going to happen.

Hi,

I can only agree - there was never such a utopia.

The so called Celts (there is no such genetic strein!) were not the indiginous peoples of Britain but interestingly when the next wave of semie nomadic herders and gatherers arrived they interbred with the people here but the graves show that they only seem to have interbred with the long boned ones!"

Most invading peoples with the upper hand tend to fancy the fit strong girls with long legs!

Have you been to West Wales!!!! They were descendents of those driven before the invaders!

Britain had a sizeable Jewish population in the 11&1200s - sufficient for them to be the butt of Shakespeare's tongue and humour.

Few bother to remember Britain would have fallen to The Kaiser's concept of a EUropean Union in 1914 without Indian troops and huge numbers of Somalis came to Britain, Hull, Grimsby, Cardiff, Newport, Swansea, Glasgow to work in our ports to liberate British lads for the army.

Without the brave support of the African troops and the Indian people and their troops we would have LOST WWII.

The so called christian religion has become little more than a sad habit for most or an American style evangelical cult.

I find the endless thinly disgiused racism of UKIP and others vomitous!

Where are the men and women of honour exposing the corruption in UKIP?

There are none! Yes NONE.

That they attack, defame and villify anyone who tells the truth about UKIP is indisputable and with an NEC election we even have that egregious whoring piece of filth Godfrey Bloom libelling his fellow MEPs by association with the fraudsters, as convicted, Tom Wise and Ashley Mote - in a desperate attempt to abuse the electoral process to get his own corrupted opinions onto the NEC to continue the corruption.

They really are the scum of the earth.

Further Bloom mails out his views to influence the election in direct breech of the rules, integrity or even common sense together with an announcement/newsletter for the Region - AT TAX PAYERS' EXPENSE!

There are some who have such lack of morality they try to justify such behaviour!

Getting arrested for f*****g black prostitutes on the bonnets of cars in Brussels is not why we pay such huge amounts to our MEPs to act as our representatives and legging it from brothels without settling their bills is hardly acceptable at the tax payers' expense! YES he was arrested for his behaviour!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.
Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[DaveUK]

Hear hear Greg. It beats me how UKIP ever became a political force that could breach the extremist fringes in the first place, what with dalliaces with the likes of Robert Killroy Silk. Alan Sked, the founder of UKIP has been particularly scathing about his former party describing them as less liberal than the BNP.
They couldn't even atract right wing Christian fundies like Peter Hitchens, a former trotskyist deffector and disolussioned conservative, because of their total lack of moral and ethical standards within the party.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

UKIP never did become a 'Political Force' it owes it 'Political Entity' to the support of people like myself who endorsed it and promoted it, supported it and publicised it as an alternative to the corrupt old style Political Parties.

We were in the main impressed with Nigel Farage as a performing monkey, we were certain the organ had a good and popular tune and we sought, in default of competence, a safe pair of hands as the organ grinder.

Sadly exactly what we cautioned against happened and the performing monkey siezed control of the organ making it sound like a hurdy gurdy in a storm and losing all rythm and plausible tune and putting in place a succession of clowns who saw themselves, risibly and dellusionally, as leaders when they were but safe pairs of hands at best, by nature.

I stated that I would back Nigel Farage as a friend and he has none of them save those he buys, as proven when you see the serried ranks of evacuuated space when he was set up by the Prostitute who sold her story to The News of The World - not one so called friend stepped forward - he has no friends!

Nigel Farage was a very competent performing monkey but as I cautioned he should never be let loose and lacked ANY leadership qualities, had no OQ, was merely a Barrow Boy who had failed repeatedly in The City having lost his job in short order with The French Bank that employed him for his drunken chavery and oik like irresponsibility.

His father a one time Army Lietenant and hopeless soak set him up in business as a trader where he was far from spectacular as he slid into the job of Tory Boy born to young to register in Margaret Thatcher's day but had a glib tongue much guile and absoluterly no morality - a natural for politics as a cheer leader but without competence or ethics to lead more than a few stunts and cheers.

How right we were for the higher up the tree this monkey climbed the more we saw its Rs until now we know he has nothing more to offer than his well larded Rs and clearly a monkey in silk is a monkey no less.

There is no doubt that Farage was very much responsible for the rise and rise of UKIP but lacked the ability to maintain the act, lacked the gravitass to be plausible, the competence to sustain it, the probity to be trusted or the OQ to move forward - as predicted he has been the person who has destroyed UKIP now and into the future having driven away anyone of stature or ability - just look at the unmittigated trash that is UKIP's leadership, executive and staff.

UKIP is an excrecence on the path before a procession and the sooner they are closed down the sooner a truelly anti EU party will emerge.

UKIP reached its zenith through our support but it has lost its way and its competent support and is all but finished.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[octopus]

Hi,

never been near a red brick uni. Your understanding of politics and British values could clearly be written on the back of a postage stamp with a felt tip pen.

Politics is the pragmatic art of the posible not pandering to the extremist rantings of extremists who want to live in the misery and penuary of the 1950s!

You are absolutely correct I have absolutely nothing in common with your racist, anti Jewish, Islamaphobic views - nor do I set much store by the evils of christianity or any other damned fool superstitions.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

So as well as anti-Islam, I"m anti-jewish as well, now, am I? You say you haven"t been to "red brick" Uni, but given your dreamy idealistic views, you do surprise me! I know a few people that have gone through those "places of education", and they are very similar to you, in views of race. However, come to think of it, you are pretty much to the right on other issues, aren"t you? Didn"t somebody call YOU a bigot on the gay debate? We were on the same side on that debate.

True, there was some misery in the 1950s, National Service, high taxation and such like, I can"t speak personaly, before my time (60s is the best I can do). However, my mother can remember those way off days, and remembers them with great affection and pride: You actually felt safe to walk the streets, you had appropiate penalties to fit the crime, you had pride in your country, the family unit was stronger, The Police were the BEST in the world, and were your friend (they are a laughing stock now), perhaps fewer material items, but the quality of life was better and my mother says they were the happiest of her life, and so do a few people of that vintage, hold that view. Thanks to the efforts of some successive Labour and Tory goverments, the reverse is now true. The thities were a era of misery I will agree, but many around at that time wouldn"t say that about the 50s - an era of common sense, according to my mother, whom I see most fridays, business permitting.

As for rantings, that really is the pot calling the kettle black, Greg. Values I think depend on your social background, and geographic area: If you live in a large mansion in the wilds of, say, Wales, where the nearest neighbour is several miles away - let alone the nearest Mosque, that person"s views will be similar to yours. On the other hand, a person lives in a run down city, tower block, anti-social behavoir, high crime rate, 85% ethnics, two mosques within 1 mile of each other, see the world they know being slowly taken away from them, that person"s values will probably be a replica of mine. The reason, that first person couldn"t really give a damn - he has money in the bank, under no pressure and can probably leave the country with his money if he so wishes; not really his fault, just lives in a different world to the second person, lucky him! The only problem he is likely to encounter is having the road blocked with a dozen sheep.

You and your liberal fellow travellers, can call me fascist, bigot, racist, anything you like, water off a ducks back to me! But I think most people know I, and all the silent millions will be proved right in the end, unless they were unfortunate enough to go to some "red brick uni", or somewhere similar. Sadly, the Britain of 2010, is a place where the obscene is normal, normal values are considered evil, we live virtualy in a dictatorship, as you are not allowed to express your views, if it differs from from what modern teaching, or should I say brainwashing, dictates.

In a way, I envy you, and your "leftie" friends, are not afraid for the future - I certainly am! The really reassuring thing is through, Greg, you don"t need to know a lot about politics, (even as little as what can fit on the back of a postage stamp)to restore normal values just put the cross in the right place during the election; millions will when the time is right for them. AFTER ALL, THE PEOPLE HAVE DONE THIS FOR CENTURIES! If anyone is a bigot it is you, and people that demand people think in a particular way, my friend!