Feeble country

[LA]

"If we decide to go down this route of an English holiday, it would mean we would become a feeble little country like the Scots..."

David Starkey on Question Time...
That is what makes BBC good

[JacquesMagique]

"If we decide to go down this route of an English holiday, it would mean we would become a feeble little country like the Scots..."

David Starkey on Question Time...
That is what makes BBC good

oooh agent mancuso will not be happy with you

[LA]

oooh agent mancuso will not be happy with you

lol

You can't agree all the time.

Good Ol'David Starkey

[agentmancuso]

oooh agent mancuso will not be happy with you

I'm not biting!

Starkey knows how to attract attention, I'll give him that.

[LA]

I'm not biting!

Starkey knows how to attract attention, I'll give him that.

I think his comments have been taken out of proportion, but Starkey will never apologise for them.

In terms of global presence or power Scotland is a "feeble" country. But that is not to say they don't have a great culture - I don't know the Scottish culture to be honest, I haven't been there.

[Cicero]

In terms of global presence or power Scotland is a "feeble" country. But that is not to say they don't have a great culture - I don't know the Scottish culture to be honest, I haven't been there.

Really? last time I checked, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom which is one of the strongest countries in the world in terms of global presence and power. David Starkey can't really be taken seriously, he's a sad boring little man who thinks he's more important than he really is because he's on television-as a history student myself, I don't think he's contributed anything major to British historical study other a few really dull documentaries on the Tudor era.

[Citizen Smith]

In terms of global presence or power Scotland is a "feeble" country. But that is not to say they don't have a great culture - I don't know the Scottish culture to be honest, I haven't been there.

global presence and power aren't the most important things in the world

[LA]

Really? last time I checked, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom which is one of the strongest countries in the world in terms of global presence and power. David Starkey can't really be taken seriously, he's a sad boring little man who thinks he's more important than he really is because he's on television-as a history student myself, I don't think he's contributed anything major to British historical study other a few really dull documentaries on the Tudor era.

Precisely, Scotland is only part of the United Kingdom.
The true strength, power and wealth of the United Kingdom comes from England.

I don't understand why any Scottish person would see any offense in this. It is not saying they don't have culture or anything, it is just saying they are not a powerful country, and in global terms it is a feeble country.

[Cicero]

Precisely, Scotland is only part of the United Kingdom. The true strength, power and wealth of the United Kingdom comes from England.

So are England, Wales & Northern Ireland. All the countries that make up the United Kingdom have contributed to its success. England is the largest of the four, yes and may have contributed more in certain areas that the others, but that is no reason to discount them or what they have contributed to the countries development.

it is not saying they don't have culture or anything, it is just saying they are not a powerful country, and in global terms it is a feeble country.

As I said above, Scotland contributes to the power of the UK, in terms of the economy, armed forces etc. In global terms, Scotland is still largely represented by the Westminster govt. (foreign policy etc.) which has hindered the countries attempts to improve its global standing. Given time, it will likely improve on that.

I don't really find it offensive in so much as it was the type of response that I was expecting and your post (particularly the re-use of the term "feeble") was just designed to provoke a response.

Personally, I actually think that the UK is stronger when together and that breaking up the country, however it happens, would result in all the member states, England included, being weakened to some degree.


btw, I noticed that you didn't disagree with my assesment of David Starkey, particuarly his standing as a historian

[JacquesMagique]

Really? last time I checked, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom which is one of the strongest countries in the world in terms of global presence and power. David Starkey can't really be taken seriously, he's a sad boring little man who thinks he's more important than he really is because he's on television-as a history student myself, I don't think he's contributed anything major to British historical study other a few really dull documentaries on the Tudor era.

as if! watching "Monarchy" beats reading textbooks or listening to my tutor droann on anydayy

[Cicero]

as if! watching "Monarchy" beats reading textbooks or listening to my tutor droann on anydayy

meh, I don't think it's any better than some of the similar stuff on the History Channel most of the time.

[LA]

So are England, Wales & Northern Ireland. All the countries that make up the United Kingdom have contributed to its success. England is the largest of the four, yes and may have contributed more in certain areas that the others, but that is no reason to discount them or what they have contributed to the countries development.

I will explain why I disregard the other countries.

England pays for them to function

As I said above, Scotland contributes to the power of the UK, in terms of the economy, armed forces etc. In global terms, Scotland is still largely represented by the Westminster govt. (foreign policy etc.) which has hindered the countries attempts to improve its global standing. Given time, it will likely improve on that.

See above statement - England pays for them all to function.
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all need English money to run.

I am fine with Wales and Northern Ireland being paid for because England officially owns them. Scotland on the other hand...

Personally, I actually think that the UK is stronger when together and that breaking up the country, however it happens, would result in all the member states, England included, being weakened to some degree.

Economically, England would be better off outside the Union.

btw, I noticed that you didn't disagree with my assesment of David Starkey, particuarly his standing as a historian

I think I have mentioned it before, but I think David Starkey is absolutely fantastic.

[agentmancuso]

I think his comments have been taken out of proportion, but Starkey will never apologise for them.

And why should he? The current vogue for apologising is vulgar in the extreme.

In terms of global presence or power Scotland is a "feeble" country.

To be honest, so is the UK. Clinging desperately to the coattails of the USA is a poor substitute for Imperial glory.

I don't know the Scottish culture to be honest, I haven't been there.

Come up some time, I'll buy you a dram and show you what Thatcherism did to the Clyde valley.

[LA]

And why should he? The current vogue for apologising is vulgar in the extreme.

I agree. Apologies has become a meaningless term thrown around with absolutely no substance.

To be honest, so is the UK. Clinging desperately to the coattails of the USA is a poor substitute for Imperial glory.

I don't really agree with that. I agree that a "special" relationship as a substitute for Imperial Glory and Power is ridiculous, but in saying that I would rather be with the USA rather than Europe.

Come up some time, I'll buy you a dram and show you what Thatcherism did to the Clyde valley

I am sorry, I am not familiar with the word dram. I assume its an alcoholic beverage of some kind?

[agentmancuso]

I would rather be with the USA rather than Europe.

I appreciate that that is probably the mainstream English view. But I think it is also the cause of the widespread anxiety about 'identity' in in English politics and indeed England as a whole.

dram. I assume its an alcoholic beverage of some kind?

A dram is an imprecise quantity of whisky.

[LA]

I appreciate that that is probably the mainstream English view. But I think it is also the cause of the widespread anxiety about 'identity' in in English politics and indeed England as a whole.

English identify is only a recent thing and has been made stronger by Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish nationalism.

Additionally, the increases " in immigration and terrorism all contribute.
It started around the 1996 European Cup when the flag came back in mainstream use

A dram is an imprecise quantity of whisky

Well, I can say that does not sound all that appealing to be honest.

[agentmancuso]

English identify is only a recent thing and has been made stronger by Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish nationalism.

Only because until very recently, most people used 'British' and 'English' interchangeably.

Well, I can say that does not sound all that appealing to be honest.

[LA]

Only because until very recently, most people used 'British' and 'English' interchangeably.

Well it seems the norm for the Scottish to hate the English.

Why?


I think a bit of English Nationalism is a good thing.

[agentmancuso]

Well it seems the norm for the Scottish to hate the English.

I see very little evidence to support that assertion. I moderate a Scottish Political forum, as well as visiting several UK political forums. There is vastly more in the way of anti-Scottish prejudice on the UK forums than there is anti-English prejudice on the Scottish forum.

I think a bit of English Nationalism is a good thing.

I agree entirely. To my mind there is a desperate need in English politics for a political party campaigning on a modern, inclusive, civic nationalist platform. Unfortunately, despite the plethora of parties describing themselves as 'nationalist' there are none; instead we have a succession of xenophobic 'British' parties obsessed with immigration.

There's a gap in the market!

[LA]

I see very little evidence to support that assertion. I moderate a Scottish Political forum, as well as visiting several UK political forums. There is vastly more in the way of anti-Scottish prejudice on the UK forums than there is anti-English prejudice on the Scottish forum.

The question is, are the forums representative of the United Kingdom?

I agree entirely. To my mind there is a desperate need in English politics for a political party campaigning on a modern, inclusive, civic nationalist platform. Unfortunately, despite the plethora of parties describing themselves as 'nationalist' there are none; instead we have a succession of xenophobic 'British' parties obsessed with immigration.

I think the Closet thing England has is the Conservative Party, which has always expressed greater interest in England than the other Union countries.

I would like to see the English Democrats, or like party, to get somewhere.

I do agree with immigration is a very important issue, and that mass immigration is causing far more problems than it causes, I just wish the minor parties would focus on more issues.

EDIT:

I think if England had its own English Parliament, things would be different and better.
I would not want a nationalist party like Plaid Cymru or the SNP in power in Westminster, however, I don't mind them being in power in their Parliament.

If England were to get its own parliament, I can predict a new English Nationalist Party doing well...
As will the Conservative Party of course.

There's a gap in the market!

lol

[agentmancuso]

The question is, are the forums representative of the United Kingdom?

A fair point. But the general tone of the tabloid and right-wing press in England is also very anti-Scottish. There is nothing like that here at all.

I think the Closet thing England has is the Conservative Party, which has always expressed greater interest in England than the other Union countries.

I tend to agree. It seems quite probable to me that, in the medium term, the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party will declare UDI (or be pushed into declaring UDI) by an English Conservative Party campaigning for an English Parliament.

[LA]

A fair point. But the general tone of the tabloid and right-wing press in England is also very anti-Scottish. There is nothing like that here at all.

I tend to agree. It seems quite probable to me that, in the medium term, the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party will declare UDI (or be pushed into declaring UDI) by an English Conservative Party campaigning for an English Parliament.

The reasons I believe the media, and the English in general are anti-scottish is because the scottish continually cry about inequality towards them, when the fact of the matter is, most of Scotlands services are paid with English tax payers money.

This is just another example, you mention the Scottish branch would claim independence if we got a Parliament. This is what I am talking about.
The Scottish dont want us to have a Parliament, even though we bloody pay for theirs, however, they still want theirs.

They will argue that it would cost to much, but would refuse to give theirs up.

Its hypocracy on a huge scale.

[agentmancuso]

The reasons I believe the media, and the English in general are anti-scottish is because the scottish continually cry about inequality towards them

No, we don't. Repeated assertions of such rubbish by the English press are exactly the sort of xenophobia I'm talking about.

most of Scotlands services are paid with English tax payers money.

No, they aren't. Repeated assertions of such rubbish by English commentators are also exactly the sort of xenophobia I'm talking about.

 The Scottish dont want us to have a Parliament,

Nonsense. The opinions of the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party are hardly indicative of Scottish opinion generally. And the opinions of the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party are whatever the UK Conservative Party has told them to say.

[LA]

No, they aren't. Repeated assertions of such rubbish by English commentators are also exactly the sort of xenophobia I'm talking about.

You honestly think Scotland collects enough tax from the Scottish to pay for their own services... Hahaha

I am sorry but you are quite mistaken.

Nonsense. The opinions of the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party are hardly indicative of Scottish opinion generally. And the opinions of the Scottish branch of the Conservative Party are whatever the UK Conservative Party has told them to say

No sorry you are quite correct, I looked at the wrong pie chart.

A majority of Scottish people want Scottish MP's to vote in English only matters. But they don't want us to vote in their matters.

Haha I love the equality.

[jackson]

As a Scot I have to admit I have very much enjoying this thread. Also I should point out that I would love for the English to have their own Parliament.

Don’t you think that if a whole country (England) shared the opinion that another country (Scotland) were actually a drain on their economy, that they would do more than complain about it in forums? Don’t you think that if there was actually any substance to the claims made by the media south of the border and some of the people on this and other forums, that something would be done other than talk? Wouldn’t that make sense? Or am I way off the mark.

I have yet to see any compelling proof that Scotland could not sustain itself, more than that. I for one would rather be in a dirt poor independent Scotland than one which drained another countries economy. But as I have said, deep down we all know that the illusion painted by some of the people on here is not accurate, despite what your sense of national pride may do to your ability to admit the truth...

Loving the forum, loving the thread.

hello to all of you!

[agentmancuso]

You honestly think Scotland collects enough tax from the Scottish to pay for their own services..

The main driving force behind the British state's determination to keep hold of Scotland is the enormous tax-take from oil companies in Scottish waters.

A majority of Scottish people want Scottish MP's to vote in English only matters. But they don't want us to vote in their matters.

What possible evidence is there for that? A great many Scottish MPs might think that, but only because their livelihood and political career depends on the present system; don't confuse all Scots with the useless careerist donkeys on the Labour benches.

[LA]

The main driving force behind the British state's determination to keep hold of Scotland is the enormous tax-take from oil companies in Scottish waters.

What possible evidence is there for that? A great many Scottish MPs might think that, but only because their livelihood and political career depends on the present system; don't confuse all Scots with the useless careerist donkeys on the Labour benches.

No such thing as Scottish waters - Additionally, the oil is running dry
I will actually looking into all this, I will send you my findings - The Labour Government did something good... the freedom of information act.

There was a poll conducted on this issue, I will find it for you.
Looking at it against, the results are 47/46 in favour of Scottish MP's voting on English only matters - but a majority none the less.

[agentmancuso]

No such thing as Scottish waters

The Continental Shelf Act 1964 confirmed otherwise.

There was a poll conducted on this issue, I will find it for you.
Looking at it against, the results are 47/46 in favour of Scottish MP's voting on English only matters - but a majority none the less.

It's hardly a serious piece of research is it?

[LA]

The Continental Shelf Act 1964 confirmed otherwise.



It's hardly a serious piece of research is it?

I didn't say it was serious research.

Due to European Law, the Continental Shelf Act is void. Remember, the EU voids all water boundaries (in member states). This was clear after the case of Spain v United Kingdom (Merchant Fishing).

[agentmancuso]

Remember, the EU voids all water boundaries (in member states). This was clear after the case of Spain v United Kingdom (Merchant Fishing).

The EU does not void all water boundaries. It merely decides between conflicting pieces of legislation. The EU can no more alter our boundaries at sea than it can on land. And even if the EU did randomly proclaim that the well established boundary between Scotland and England had moved one way or another, then people on both sides of the border would evidently ignore such bureaucratic meddling.

[LA]

The EU does not void all water boundaries. It merely decides between conflicting pieces of legislation. The EU can no more alter our boundaries at sea than it can on land. And even if the EU did randomly proclaim that the well established boundary between Scotland and England had moved one way or another, then people on both sides of the border would evidently ignore such bureaucratic meddling.

There are no such things as water boundaries for EU countries.
England tried using that against Spain and it failed. The European Court ruled that we cannot do it.

Also, I am sure as per the Acts of Union, it is British waters.

[Midas]

The EU does not void all water boundaries. It merely decides between conflicting pieces of legislation. The EU can no more alter our boundaries at sea than it can on land. And even if the EU did randomly proclaim that the well established boundary between Scotland and England had moved one way or another, then people on both sides of the border would evidently ignore such bureaucratic meddling.

That's quite true, however there is no separate sea boundary for Scotland, either territorial water or exclusive economic zone as defined in the United Nation Charter of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). The waters around England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland belong to the United Kingdom as one single entity.

[LA]

That's quite true, however there is no separate sea boundary for Scotland, either territorial water or exclusive economic zone as defined in the United Nation Charter of the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). The waters around England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland belong to the United Kingdom as one single entity.

Midas, you may know this, but I am sure the EU as part of the fisheries policy, renders water borders between EU nations, void.

This was seen in the case of Spain v United Kingdom, whereby we passed legislation so that only British ships could fish in British waters. The EU held that we cannot prevent Spanish ships entering and fishing in British waters - we were made to refund all loses to the Spanish ships.

I could be interpreting this wrong, but I am sure I am not.

[Midas]

Midas, you may know this, but I am sure the EU as part of the fisheries policy, renders water borders between EU nations, void.

This was seen in the case of Spain v United Kingdom, whereby we passed legislation so that only British ships could fish in British waters. The EU held that we cannot prevent Spanish ships entering and fishing in British waters - we were made to refund all loses to the Spanish ships.

I could be interpreting this wrong, but I am sure I am not.

I believe you're quite correct from the point of view of fishing rights, however as far as economic activity which affects the seabed itself is concerned, i.e., oil and natural gas production, UNCLOS prevails. Mentioned mainly because of agentmancuso's comments about oil revenues from Scottish waters; sorry, no such thing in law.

[LA]

I believe you're quite correct from the point of view of fishing rights, however as far as economic activity which affects the seabed itself is concerned, i.e., oil and natural gas production, UNCLOS prevails. Mentioned mainly because of agentmancuso's comments about oil revenues from Scottish waters; sorry, no such thing in law.

I wasn't disputing the oil claim, merely the scottish waters part.

[Marxist Nutter]

Midas, you may know this, but I am sure the EU as part of the fisheries policy, renders water borders between EU nations, void.

This was seen in the case of Spain v United Kingdom, whereby we passed legislation so that only British ships could fish in British waters. The EU held that we cannot prevent Spanish ships entering and fishing in British waters - we were made to refund all loses to the Spanish ships.

I could be interpreting this wrong, but I am sure I am not.

LA. Just an aside really, I don't think your interpretaion is wrong (strictly speaking) but as usualy is rather simlistic. The case you refer to is better known as the Factortame case and not UK vs Spain as Spain as a nation state was not involved at all in the actually case. This is of course purely case law (House of Lords decision actually), and under Dicey's principal we can legislate to over rule it and ignore the EU if parliament wishes to do so. The fact is parliament allowed for EU superemcy in case law in 1972. Now of parliament can unmake this law if it wishes.

Addressing the public criticism expressed following the ECJ's decision and the alleged erosion of Parliamentary sovereignty, Lord Bridge remarked that such comments were "based on a misconception", and that under the European Communities Act 1972, the law regulating the UK's membership of the EU, it had "always been clear that it was the duty of a United Kingdom court when delivering final judgment, to override any rule of national law found to be in conflict with any directly enforceable rule of Community law." In the same way that Parliament had introduced legislation to remedy areas of UK law which did not meet the standards set by EU directives, the House of Lords was now accomplishing the same task in giving judgment for Factortame. There was nothing new, in this respect, in recognising the supremacy of EU law in the areas in which it applies.

[LA]

Marxist, I am well aware of Parliamentary Sovereignty.
We gave the EU the right to pass higher law, we can remove that right.

Didn't they teach you to quote your sources?

[Marxist Nutter]

Marxist, I am well aware of Parliamentary Sovereignty.
We gave the EU the right to pass higher law, we can remove that right.

Didn't they teach you to quote your sources?

sorry wikki source

Factortame case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

an honest mistake. I forgot

[LA]

sorry wiki source

Factortame case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

an honest mistake. I forgot

Thank you.

When I can be bothered, I will go read it.

[Marxist Nutter]

Thank you.

When I can be bothered, I will go read it.

i have to admit I read th case when I was about 18, but can't remember the ins and outs too well myself. Although was fairly sure the case was not (as you say) the UK vs Spain

[LA]

i have to admit I read th case when I was about 18, but can't remember the ins and outs too well myself. Although was fairly sure the case was not (as you say) the UK vs Spain

I thought it happened like this:

Spanish ships were fishing in our waters.
Our Government got annoyed and so passed the Merchant shipping act.
Spain didn't like it.
The Commission believed it went against EU law
The ECJ found us guilty
We were made to compensate Spanish ships for their loses.

[Alba]

"If we decide to go down this route of an English holiday, it would mean we would become a feeble little country like the Scots..."

David Starkey on Question Time...
That is what makes BBC good

Just to point out Britain is a feeble little country that is bankrupt to the tune of £170 Billion... oh wait a minute, it's England that runs the show : so England is a feeble little country.

Still fantasising that even without the Americans and the Russians and the Canadians and the Australians you could have beaten Hitler singlehandedly. Still dreaming of the days of the Raj... blah blah blah.

Britain is a dinky little island that is almost entirely unimportant on the world scene despite having the 'special relationship' with the US. A whole 500 troops sent to Afghanistan, well Scotland could match that(though we wouldn't just to kiss American political ass)... Actually, Monaco could match that.

Feeble : bankrupt, in ridiculous debt, politicians as expenses thieves, social division still prevalent to society's severe detriment and desperately clutching onto the past by grabbing onto the Queen.

Feeble... very much so.

England's dreaming.

[albannach]

As you can see alba,l.a is struggling to come to terms with his countrys position in the world today. Still having wet dreams over the empire.
A young conservative, need i say more?........

[Alba]

A young conservative?

I thought he was an an old dude.

Still... why does he bother with the anti-Scottish rants when he clearly doesn't care about Scotland as a real place.

[albannach]

A young conservative?

I thought he was an an old dude.

Still... why does he bother with the anti-Scottish rants when he clearly doesn't care about Scotland as a real place.

shocking isn`t it!Yes a young conservative , and he absolutely despises the scots.Wish we could get him on a few scottish forums for a rant!

[LA]

Just to point out Britain is a feeble little country that is bankrupt to the tune of £170 Billion... oh wait a minute, it's England that runs the show : so England is a feeble little country.

Still fantasising that even without the Americans and the Russians and the Canadians and the Australians you could have beaten Hitler singlehandedly. Still dreaming of the days of the Raj... blah blah blah.

Britain is a dinky little island that is almost entirely unimportant on the world scene despite having the 'special relationship' with the US. A whole 500 troops sent to Afghanistan, well Scotland could match that(though we wouldn't just to kiss American political ass)... Actually, Monaco could match that.

Feeble : bankrupt, in ridiculous debt, politicians as expenses thieves, social division still prevalent to society's severe detriment and desperately clutching onto the past by grabbing onto the Queen.

Feeble... very much so.

England's dreaming.

Britain's finances have been severely damaged by the Labour Government [funny enough, heavily made up of Scots - cheap shot].

However, our economy is one of the top 10 in the world [6th I believe].
Our financial centre is rated above that of New York [1st in the world].
We have a very strong and effective military.

Britain is not a feeble country. We are tiny, but we are not feeble.

shocking isn`t it!Yes a young conservative , and he absolutely despises the scots.Wish we could get him on a few scottish forums for a rant!

I don't despise the Scots.
I just dislike the Scots for their attitude to England - England, the country that subsidies Scotland and allows it to enjoy free prescriptions, free elderly care, no tuition fees etc.

[Alba]

Britain's finances have been severely damaged by the Labour Government [funny enough, heavily made up of Scots - cheap shot].

However, our economy is one of the top 10 in the world [6th I believe].
Our financial centre is rated above that of New York [1st in the world].
We have a very strong and effective military.

Britain is not a feeble country. We are tiny, but we are not feeble.

Westmister is made up of Brit Nats give or take a few.

The British army is jokingly small, all the money wasted on nukes could help but it's spent on nukes.

The economy has been in recession for 6 fiscal quarters in a row. Nobody is impressed with the nation of shopkeepers who produce nothing except £170 Billion of debt (largely created by this financial centre you so admire).

Tiny feeble empire days mentality is going to keep you that way. Stop being so grateful for non-existent British fantasies.

[Kiwi 1691]

The British army is jokingly small, all the money wasted on nukes could help but it's spent on nukes.

The British army may be small, but it's soldiers are some of the most respected in the world.

The economy has been in recession for 6 fiscal quarters in a row. Nobody is impressed with the nation of shopkeepers who produce nothing except £170 Billion of debt (largely created by this financial centre you so admire).

Like most western nations.

Tiny feeble empire days mentality is going to keep you that way. Stop being so grateful for non-existent British fantasies.

Yea, the days of the Empire are long over.

[Alba]

The British army may be small, but it's soldiers are some of the most respected in the world.

No question that there are great soldiers in the British army, of course there are. But the army has been downsized and cut to pieces for decades; since the end of the cold war this process has accelerated.

The point is that some seem to still imagine Britain as an important moral force and secretly a major power. This is just imagination and follows on from the Lib Auth calling Scotland a small feeble country and my point is look at England before you start the insults.

Like most western nations.

Yes, but most Western nations started coming out of the recession a few months ago without the almighty national debt that Brown and co. managed to accrue. Also the UK is still in recession for the 6th quarter in a row; the longest recession apparently for 50+ years. Jolly good show GB...

Again look at England before you say Scotland is financially poor. £170 billion of debt is impressive and people in glass houses shouldn't...

Yea, the days of the Empire are long over.

Well, yes, one would think so but apparently some still live in their dreamy Victorian era fantasies.

Not wishing in any way to denigrate England but read the throwaway slurs written about Scotland here. I've never seen the like. Having said that, it's honest (however silly) and that one can respond to. On many sites the political correctness stops that.

[LA]

The point is that some seem to still imagine Britain as an important moral force and secretly a major power. This is just imagination and follows on from the Lib Auth calling Scotland a small feeble country and my point is look at England before you start the insults.

I don't think I have used the term "major power".
Britain still has some global influence left. I acknowledge that this influence is nothing compared to the influence we once had, but times change.
Doesn't mean we should just withdraw ourselves. We should still maintain some influence.

Yes, but most Western nations started coming out of the recession a few months ago without the almighty national debt that Brown and co. managed to accrue. Also the UK is still in recession for the 6th quarter in a row; the longest recession apparently for 50+ years. Jolly good show GB...

Again, that is what happens when you get a Labour Government.

Again look at England before you say Scotland is financially poor. £170 billion of debt is impressive and people in glass houses shouldn't...

£170bn of debt is for England and Scotland.
Maybe we should cut tonnes of services in Scotland (as we will be doing in England) to pay for it? Sounds fair?

Well, yes, one would think so but apparently some still live in their dreamy Victorian era fantasies.

Just because you want to roll on your back and lose all global influence doesn't mean I am harking back to the days of British Imperialism.