Independence

[Patrioticman]

Scotland cannot afford to be independent.
Oil revenue figures are quoted for the whole of the UK there are no split official figures.You cannot tax another country or the other way round.
Most of the financial statements made by nationalist are creative accounting.
Nationalism and Patriotism are very differerent
Look at history of all nationalist parties
No nationalist says anything about what they have to pay back and just say what they will take or want.
Do they ever think that there are two sides and many things would have to be agreed about with independence and the issues that would follow.
It is be far better to have some regional control over local things.
Get real
Join the Patriots

[albannach]

another anti democratic unionist.ask the question in a referendum , but neither the tories , labour or lib will as they are too scared.Being denied the chance to vote is just more ammo to the snp.determine your own future scotland and throw off the archaic shackles of westminster.

[Major Sinic]

another anti democratic unionist.ask the question in a referendum , but neither the tories , labour or lib will as they are too scared.Being denied the chance to vote is just more ammo to the snp.determine your own future scotland and throw off the archaic shackles of westminster.

As an Englishman I completely agree with you. Let there be a referendum and I urge all Scots to vote for independence, and I urge the Westminster Government of the day to grant Independence to Scotland.

I trust that on the following day, England will cancel all foreign aid to the proud new independent Scotland, since with their new found independence will come a new found responsibility to stand on their own new found economic feet.

This saving of foreign aid can then be redirected to contribute to the residential care of English old people and the payment of English students tuition fees. Or perhaps it might be better spent paying off some of the British debt caused by the economic incompetence of our Scottish Prime Minister, and the greed and hubris of the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Halifax Bank of Scotland.

[stewy]

what we all want is a simple referendum for england scotland n.ireland and wales Q; do you want to be a separate independant country
A;yes or no

[albannach]

I often wonder if brown is so disliked because he is scottish rather than anything else after all , the natives wont like a foreigner , jock paddy or whatever running the show.
interesting to note , the norwegian oil fund has now reached £258 billion , its highest ever , while england(sorry britain)has a budget deficit of £175 billion(no doubt caused by those jock scroungers)Norways oil fund owns about 1% of all the companies in the world.
Not bad for a small independant country similar to ours , whose politicians determine their own fate unlike in scotland where we have a mickey mouse parliament with few real powers and policy in the main is dictated from westmonster.
yes i am sure we are better off handing over all our oil to england , staying put in the union and feeding off the scraps from englands plate like a good little servant.
The vapid concept of unionism that is expressed by brown and cameron is insulting to the average people of our nation

[Major Sinic]

I often wonder if brown is so disliked because he is scottish rather than anything else after all , the natives wont like a foreigner , jock paddy or whatever running the show.
interesting to note , the norwegian oil fund has now reached £258 billion , its highest ever , while england(sorry britain)has a budget deficit of £175 billion(no doubt caused by those jock scroungers)Norways oil fund owns about 1% of all the companies in the world.
Not bad for a small independant country similar to ours , whose politicians determine their own fate unlike in scotland where we have a mickey mouse parliament with few real powers and policy in the main is dictated from westmonster.
yes i am sure we are better off handing over all our oil to england , staying put in the union and feeding off the scraps from englands plate like a good little servant.
The vapid concept of unionism that is expressed by brown and cameron is insulting to the average people of our nation

You won't find me arguing against independence for Scotland. Sooner the better.

Brown is disliked for a variety of reasons, not least because he is a liar and economically incompetent.

[stewy]

i see hbos is being mentioned.I thought after the takeover of bos by halifax , hbos remained in yorkshire with the corporate h.q in edinburgh , not the main h.q , the management of halifax running the show with bos paid off.with most banks totally intertwined with each other , did we bail out a scottish bank?were not 90% of hbos losses in england and overseas?

[Major Sinic]

i see hbos is being mentioned.I thought after the takeover of bos by halifax , hbos remained in yorkshire with the corporate h.q in edinburgh , not the main h.q , the management of halifax running the show with bos paid off.with most banks totally intertwined with each other , did we bail out a scottish bank?were not 90% of hbos losses in england and overseas?

With the merger having occurred seven or so years before the collapse, the two organisations were to all intents and purposes one. You are right that the Corporate HQ remained in Edinburgh, and the services of much of the senior management have quite rightly been dispensed with. You may therefore be right that it could not accurately be called a Scottish Bank.

Surely it is largely irrelevant where a debt is incurred, and culpability for the failure of a bank would lie with the risk assessment in making a loan or investment.

[stewy]

With the merger having occurred seven or so years before the collapse, the two organisations were to all intents and purposes one. You are right that the Corporate HQ remained in Edinburgh, and the services of much of the senior management have quite rightly been dispensed with. You may therefore be right that it could not accurately be called a Scottish Bank.

Surely it is largely irrelevant where a debt is incurred, and culpability for the failure of a bank would lie with the risk assessment in making a loan or investment.

i agree , hbos is often mentioned though as an example of england bailing out a scottish institution , when clearly it is not the case.all banks are multi national , with fingers in all the pies the world over.The label under which it trades is largely irrelevant.
The scots being denied a referendum on independance , which clearly most want a say on is akin to us being denied a say on the lisbon treaty , politicians of all ilks clearly think they know best and we do not.Democracy , is supposedto be , in part, all of us having a say on the major issues that affect us all. Am i wrong??

[Major Sinic]

i agree , hbos is often mentioned though as an example of england bailing out a scottish institution , when clearly it is not the case.all banks are multi national , with fingers in all the pies the world over.The label under which it trades is largely irrelevant.
The scots being denied a referendum on independance , which clearly most want a say on is akin to us being denied a say on the lisbon treaty , politicians of all ilks clearly think they know best and we do not.Democracy , is supposedto be , in part, all of us having a say on the major issues that affect us all. Am i wrong??

Although coming from a different direction, I suspect, than you, I fully agree that Scotland should have a referendum on independence. I also hope that the referendum would be in favour of independence, and that Westminster would grant it.

Scotland would of course have to realise that with full independence would come national responsibilities, which would include the discontinuation of English subsidies, which of course would become foreign aid at that point.

[Alba]

Most of the financial statements made by nationalist are creative accounting.
Nationalism and Patriotism are very differerent

Most financial statements (possibly all of them) made by the Westminster Brits are creative accounting and a country builds its wealth through personal and national industry. Something sadly lacking in the halls of Westminster (give or take the odd expenses fiddle or two hundred).

Nationalism and Patriotism are very different indeed.

Patriotism is the naive love of country based on this or
that perceived version of the facts: simple minded nonsense in effect.

Nationalism, when extreme is just intolerant fascism like anything taken to extremes actually. When however, it is an expression of a desire to live in a way you wish to that challenges a status quo run by a more powerful neighbour then it's legitimate political expression.

Of course one could spend weeks, months, years debating the definition but that is broadly it.

Don't be so proud of the word patriot because it's been often used by the people in power as a tool to manipulate the masses. In any case you're a Brit Nat, you just call yourself a patriot because you wish to have a warm comforting feeling when using the term so that you can criticise others whom you don't understand.