Labour takes big victory in Glasgow

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

A Boost for Brown as Labour takes big victory in Glasgow vote

Who would have thought that the party of Gordon Brown could win back the seat vacated by Michael Martin, who resigned in June in the wake of his personal attrocious handling of the MPs ALLOWances scandal, he had been appointed years earlier to solve!

Such a prodigious level of failure clearly makes him a star amongst Labour and he was swiftly elevated to the Peerage!! The man who refused to wear the uniform of Speaker was quick enough to dash out an buy his Ermine Robes!!

Jim Murphy, the Scottish secretary, said: "This is a humiliation for David Cameron; his face was on every Tory leaflet. They obviously thought he was an electoral asset." The Guardian says: 'the Tories' lacklustre result will damage their efforts to build up momentum for the general election'.

TheBNP party came in fourth, just 0.3% behind the Conservatives.

The Conservatives got 1,075 (5.2%) of the vote, the BNP 1,013 (4.9%). So very close as to give Vapid CommieRon a rather uncomfortable day or two!

Out of 62,475 voters, only 33 percent bestirred themselves to vote, the lowest ever in a Scottish by-election.

The SNP can draw little comfort having lost 2 of the last 3 by-elections they have stood in!

Perhaps Scotland is drifting awake and has realised it couldn't matter less who is elected as we no longer have a democracy in these United Kingdoms and our laws are made in Brussels. Due to the betrayal of sequential Governments Westminster is now largely an irrelevance - a place for the useless to be kept off the streets in subsidised bars!

The Tories have not got the general election in the bag, but does it matter - as of 01-Dec-2009 we no longer have an independent Nation we become a National Region of the malign and damaging undemocratic EU under the terms of The New Constitution now called The Lisbon Treaty.

As vassals of the EU we will have 1/27th. say on The Council of Ministers, 1/27th. say on the Central Politbureau or Commission and a wonderous fractured 8% say in the EU's pretend parliament.

But why am I boring you as I'm sure your MP explained this to you and ensured you knew Britain is effectively no more - just a region of the new super state with a new constitution, new flag, new anthem and centralised army and police.

Hey ho - but I'm sure the majority didn't want a referendum which explains why every party reneged on their promise!

Anyway if we had voted NO like France, Holland and Ireland they would merely change a word or two and re issue it as signed or make us vote again to get it right, like Ireland. That is what The EU calls 'democracy'!!!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Streetwalker]

The Scots always vote Labour so no surprise there,without the Scots vote the UK would be under a Conservative government.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

The Scots always vote Labour so no surprise there,without the Scots vote the UK would be under a Conservative government.

Hi,

Malcolm Rifkin will be astonished at your new - so would be Kennedy!

You use the word 'always' but even 'normally' would not have suited this instance in the light of the circumstances - Bent Speaker (Labour) chucked out - given unpopular Peerage, under an unpopular leader or an unpopular Government - Tories SHOULD have done better except Vapid CommiRon is about as much use as a soup sandwich.

The demographics do NOT show Tory winning!

EUkip & BNP will play a part this time because of the betrayal of reneging on a referendum. They made almost NO difference last GE - don't claim 27 seats I came up with that figure with a friend and released it as a Press Release at about 5:45am on election morning! Richard wrote it up for The Bruges Group and the feeding shoal took the bait!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Barry]

It is a one off end of term poll, 33% turnout is partly because people are hacked off with politics in general, partly because they are all waiting for the proper election in 2010.
Then there will be double the turnout, but will that change the result?
Perhaps not.
The Tories have no reason to be complacent.

[LA]

Glasgow North East By Election Results:

Labour - 12,231 votes (59.39%)
SNP - 4,120 votes (20%)
Tory - 1,075 votes (5.22%)
BNP - 1,013 votes (4.92%)
Solidarity - 794 votes (3.86%)
Lib Dems - 474 votes (2.30%)
Total votes cast - 20,595
Voter turnout - 32.97%
Rejected ballots - 43

Labour wins another seat.

[Kiwi 1691]

Labour wins another seat.

The more the better.

[Midas]

Even though the constituency has always been a Labour stronghold, their percentage of the vote has been declining steadily though.

1997 - 71.4%
2001 - 66.6%
2005 - vote for Speaker
2009 - 59.4%

[Major Sinic]

The Scots always vote Labour so no surprise there,without the Scots vote the UK would be under a Conservative government.

Yes, the Scots have a lot to answer for!

[Expounder]

The Scots always vote Labour so no surprise there,without the Scots vote the UK would be under a Conservative government.

I don't think it's a coincidence the on the day when Labour regained the seat in Glasgow's North East constituency was the day That the Sun newspaper used the grief of a distraught fallen soldier's mother to publish an unwarranted vile and despicable personal attack on the Prime Minister which badly backfired.

As Kruschov once said one Swallow [the bird] doesn't make a summer] just as one bye election victory doesn't turn Labour's fortunes around overnight. But the size of the majority given such a low turn out is a kick in the goolies for Cameron and the Sun and smug Alec Salmond's SNP.

It's no use pointing to the low turn out for Labour's success, had the turn out been higher Labour's majority would have probably been higher, as any motivated anti Labour voters would have already made the effort to vote.

Cameron's attempt to gain political emotional kudos by stage managing a photo shoot prompted by his personal photographer at a memorial of the fallen was transparent. The Tory party spin doctors riding on a crest of an anti Brown, Labour, propaganda wave have been drowned in their own spin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21817739/

The Tory party and the Sun have gone too far, they thought they could get away with winning the next election on a platform of extreme personal abuse against the Prime Minister they have grossly overstepped the mark as they have found out, The British people do have an overriding sense of fairness.

Even though the turn out was low the percentage result of the win was impressive. Glasgow NE can begin the fight back for Labour.

[Kiwi 1691]

I don't think it's a coincidence the on the day when Labour regained the seat in Glasgow's North East constituency was the day That the Sun newspaper used the grief of a distraught fallen soldier's mother to publish an unwarranted vile and despicable personal attack on the Prime Minister which badly backfired.

As Kruschov once said one Swallow [the bird] doesn't make a summer] just as one bye election victory doesn't turn Labour's fortunes overnight. But the size of the majority given such a low turn out is a kick in the goolies for Cameron and the Sun and smug Alec Salmond's SNP.

It's no use pointing to the low turn out for Labour's success, had the turn out been higher Labour's majority would have probably been higher, as any motivated anti Labour voters would have already made the effort to vote.

Cameron's attempt to gain emotional kudos by stage managing a photo shoot prompted by his personal photographer at a memorial of the fallen was transparent. The Tory party spin doctors riding on a crest of an anti Brown, Labour, propaganda wave have been drowned in their own spin.

The Tory party and the Sun have gone too far, they thought they could get away with winning the next election on a platform of extreme personal abuse against the Prime Minister they have grossly overstepped the mark as they have found out, The British people do have an overriding sense of fairness.

Even though the turn out was low the percentage result of the win was impressive. Glasgow NE can begin the fight back for Labour.

Yes, the attacks on GB are pathetic, what more could you expect from The Sun.

[albannach]

Is there any real surprise at this result?
I know this area of Glasgow fairly well , and despite the fact that after 74 years of labour representation this is one of the most deprived areas of Scotland.What has liebour done for this area and what will they continue to do - zilch , sweet f**k all.There are no real winners here , only losers - the people of Glasgow north east voting in yet another self serving monkey.
I am tempted to say that when the people of this area start moaning about how bad things are , then you can throw it back in their faces by telling them if they continue to vote the same as their parents did , nothing will change for them.Labour do not represent the working class in this area , the only true socialist was the solidarity candidate.
Unfortunately some people believe the crap they are constantly force fed by the “democratic free press” like the daily record etc.
I had a friend in one of the polling stations who told me he barely saw 30 voters , this is beyond voter apathy..Glasgow north east has had its say by not voting (67% who can`t care less)DON`T VOTE DON`T MOAN
Heres a blog to check out
http://theorangepartyblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/will-postal-votes-swing-glasgow-ne.html

[Midas]

Labour have hailed their win in the Glasgow North East by-election as a dramatic victory and an endorsement of Prime Minister Gordon Brown's policies.

Willie Bain became the constituency's new MP with 12,231 votes - a majority of 8,111 over the SNP.

The Scottish National Party accused Labour of negative campaigning on "grudge and grievance".

Shadow chancellor George Osborne said he did not think the result was "relevant" to the rest of the UK.

The Tory MP said: "Come the general election what we will be looking at is Labour's record in power and Gordon Brown will be the incumbent, and he will be the one who has to explain why he has got so much badly wrong."

The full story available from here : BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | By-election win 'endorses Brown'

Seems like signs of desperation to me when a win with a falling majority in a long time safe seat can be seen as 'an endorsement'!

[Expounder]

Labour have hailed their win in the Glasgow North East by-election as a dramatic victory and an endorsement of Prime Minister Gordon Brown's policies.

Willie Bain became the constituency's new MP with 12,231 votes - a majority of 8,111 over the SNP.

The Scottish National Party accused Labour of negative campaigning on "grudge and grievance".

Shadow chancellor George Osborne said he did not think the result was "relevant" to the rest of the UK.

The Tory MP said: "Come the general election what we will be looking at is Labour's record in power and Gordon Brown will be the incumbent, and he will be the one who has to explain why he has got so much badly wrong."

The full story available from here : BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | By-election win 'endorses Brown'

Seems like signs of desperation to me when a win with a falling majority in a long time safe seat can be seen as 'an endorsement'!

Sour grapes MIdas it's a bye election and it was p***ing down with rain on a cold November day.
You more than anyone should know about low turnouts in bye elections even when it's not raining.

If it wasn't such a big deal why did so many front benches turn out on the hustings and canvasing they didn't get much for their efforts. And, what happened to the SNP the alternative vote to Labour?

[Midas]

If it wasn't such a big deal why did so many front benches turn out on the hustings and canvasing they didn't get much for their efforts. And, what happened to the SNP the alternative vote to Labour?

Panic in the face of massive desertion?

[albannach]

If it wasn't such a big deal why did so many front benches turn out on the hustings and canvasing they didn't get much for their efforts. And, what happened to the SNP the alternative vote to Labour?

the mistakes of labour in the glasgow east by election have been replicated this time round by the snp.Labour have won , but no amount of spin will show this as a turning point for labour, in scotland or the u.k as a whole.
I will be interested to see the impact of the small parties in the general election, i think both labour and cons are in for a shock.
One other thing expounder as a born and bred glaswegian i have never seen such anti labour sentiment in glasgow in mylife , despite this pitifull result.Nu lab appeal to no one.Scotland has went from a one party country to a two party , and the traditional labour support is gradually waning away , as people come to their senses.One battle doesnt win a war.

[albannach]

http://moridura.blogspot.com/2009/11/gl ... esult.html

more views!

[Expounder]

The Labour movement [be it old Labour or communist TU leaders] still has deep roots in the the Scottish working class psyche through leading struggles against mainly English, and English orientated ruling Scottish establishments. I see it as a straight choice between the SNP and Labour in Scotland. What a Labour has to do has to do is to prove by its actions it is departing from the policies the last decade and go into the election on a radical left manifesto. If it doesn't, its future in Britain's mainstream is in question.

I agree it is a shadow of what it was, but as I have said many times on this forum it can change. Their is no other political organisation which still has contacts and roots [although tentative] with what's left of the working class movement if it became totally impotent in parliament through lack of electoral support now at this critical time, it could change the political map of Britain for the worse.


The main issue between Labour and the SNP I feel is the the question of whether Scotland should opt for outright independence.I'm no expert on Scotland [I have an Irish family background though born in England] but I get vibes from media reports,and interviews with various Scottish working class notables that there is national pride [ evident by the support for the SNP] but independence is a step too far.

I may have the wrong impression about this, it's difficult to know without a Scottish referendum. But if this is the case, support for Labour may have wained under the onslaught of the Tory led personalised media campaign against Brown, and policy errors of judgment by the government, but I feel the Labour is still alive and kicking in Scotland. Labour in its election manifesto in the next general election has to establish clear blue water between themselves and the Tories.

[Expounder]

Panic in the face of massive desertion?

I meant the shadow front bench didn't gain much for their efforts

[albannach]

thanks expounder, interesting post.I am a former labour voter who has been angry with the direction the party has gone for a long time now, as have many.As you say , there is no real difference in the eyes of the public between the two main parties in the u.k at the moment , how many times do you hear "it doesn`t matter who is in power nothing much will change" , and all the usual voter apathy.
I have believed for a long time that the two party politics in the u.k is destroying this country , and we are going to get another conservative government soon as a backlash against labours policies , and yes nothing much will change , or will it?
I am not anti england, but i most certainly am anti establishment and against scotland being run from westminster.
The whole central belt as you are probably aware in scotland is predominantly socialist , and we have labour to thank in helping us get a devolved parliament, after 300 years of home rule bills consistently going through and being rejected in westminster.
Hand on heart i cannot honestly say that scotland will definetly vote to separate from england , but i can tell you 100% every single scot wants a referendum on the issue.
I honestly believe an incoming conservative government will be like a red rag to a bull , with regards to the feeling of the scottish people on independance, and i am sure this may be what salmond will hope tips the blance in the snp`s favour . That is how much the tories are obviously despised.None of us want a return to the years we suffered under thatcher, cameron will have no say in scotland.
Labour being in denial about the strength of feeling over a referendum in scotland is what is seriously pissing people off , and why the nationalists are doing so well.This is why nationalist parties in england and scotland(albeit completely different) are doing so well , they are trying to offer the public what they want and not ignoring peoples opinions as labour and the tories consistently do.
It would not surprise many if labour were completely decimated at the next general election in scotland , and i believe this by election was a blip.

[albannach]

http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/our-history

If they supported independence I would propably support labour?!!

[Expounder]

http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/our-history

If they supported independence I would propably support labour?!!

The big question I think the Scots are wary about albannach is not so much political independence but whether they will be able to survive financial independence. Uncharted waters here.

[albannach]

expounder i totally agree, this is obviously where the fight will be.The whole question of being financially self sufficient.Obviously i believe we can be, but i am also realistic to accept it will be a long hard road.
On a basic level, it may well boil down to people in the poor areas thinking will i get £10 more on my giro under a british government than a scottish government.?
My mum will vote labour no matter what , but i believe it is a generation thing, certainly many of the younger people are voting nationalist.
After the euphoria of 97 , labour , i do believe have tried but just haven`t lived up to expectations, and have moved so far away from their socialist roots.
There has been a lot of sympathy for brown after the debacle with mrs janes and the sun , which spectacularly back fired on murdoch and co.
This won`t be enough to save labour , there is just so much apathy and anger against politicians at the moment. They have lost all credibility and respect , or what little they had .
England , never mind scotland needs complete electoral reform, westminster just isn`t working.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

I do get the impression that there is a parallel universe where fantasy fairs well!

From 01-Dec-2009 it couldn't matter less who is elected to Westminster or any of the footling little EU Regional Councils - you can call them Sennetts, Assemblies, Parliaments or Public Toilets, they like Westminster are an utter irrelevancy.

Mere rubber stamping offices for the distribution of bribes.

If you wish to address the issue of Governance it is long overdue for the peoples of these United Kingdoms to join the real wrld and stop functioning in La La Land.

Do PLEEEEEEZE read the Treaties - You have a new Constitution from the end of the month - has everyone been on a huge sleep over and will emerge from under the bridge like Rumplestiltskin wide eyed and astonished to realise they are now directly ruled by the unelected, undemocratic Government in Brussels.

Since many of you live in Scotland and my home was for many years Wester Ross you might wish to find out what is going on under your noses and read material before Marcello or one of our other contacts publishes!

Have a look at something that REALLY concerns Scotland:
CLICK HERE
Now this is something YOU can do something about in Scotland!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[albannach]

thankyou greg
the u.k is not a democracy(democracy, in the modern sense what a joke!)that i will fight for.It is a feudal class ridden domination of a group of smaller countries by a larger one.england uses the convienient cloak of "britishness" to provide anonymity for its blatant domination and abuse of power.
Is your argument that britain (as england likes to call itself when convienient)and those parasites at westminster will look after scotlands best interests???
If home rule is la la land , then i will accept brussels over westminster, every time.Welcome to our world for the past 300 years!

[albannach]

"THE British government joined the EEC believing it would ruin the Scottish economy, according to secret files released last week. The documents, kept hidden from public view under the 30-year rule, reveal that Britain entered the Common Market despite successive governments believing that 80% of Scotland's farms would be destroyed."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n9623906

"Cabinet papers (Scottish Office Memo – 9.11.70) eventually released in January 2001 revealed that ‘as the horrific implications of handing over our waters dawned on our MPs, Ministers and civil servants adopted a systematic policy of concealing what was happening. it vital not to get drawn into an explanation of what was going on or to admit what a disaster was in store for Britain’s fishermen in the wider context must be regarded as expendable."
Of course the fishing industry is major more important to Scotland than England, but this was not a factor it was merely "expendable" in the greater interests of the British block.
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/Edward%20Heath.htm

"Do not the findings substantiate the view that British Steel sacrificed Ravenscraig—the heart of the Scottish steel industry—as the entry price to a sordid price-fixing cartel in Europe? Far from the Government having nothing to do with the arrangements, is it not true that they knew about them, aided and abetted them and that that is why they did not force the sale of Ravenscraig by British Steel? Instead of defending British Steel's illegal activities, why does the Minister not apologise to the people of Lanarkshire and Scotland for allowing their plant to be used as the sacrificial lamb for British Steel's dirty deals in Europe?"
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/comm ... tish-steel

"Scotland 'ignored' in Euro talks"
"A leaked government report claims Scotland has been ignored by Whitehall officials in key European negotiations."
"It was not uncommon, it said, for Whitehall departments to exclude the Scottish Government when forming policy, or to dismiss its views when formulating a UK line."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6286827.stm

One of the "independent" advisers to the Calman Commission Iain McLean puts his finger on the real reason that Britain does not want to let Scotland go :

"If the Scottish Nationalists (SNP) came to power, they would negotiate secession, which would endanger some projects dear to Unionists of all parties – such as the UK’s seats in the UN Security Council (worrying to Conservative Unionists)"
http://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/politics/p ... 050412.pdf

Basically Britain is terrified that once Scotland leaves the rump that is left it will be seen for what it is- a has been empire which will not longer deserve a seat at the top table which is so covets. This is the real reason that the British State, Brown et al will to anything and everything to try and prevent Scotland gaining her independence - it is just another power game and they are absolutely terrified that they will lose their seats at the top table.

To make matters even worse the British Government stated the following in the infamous McCrone report :

"North Sea oil could have far-reaching consequences for Scottish membership of EEC because of the tremendously increased political power it would confer. As the major producer of oil in Western Europe, however, Scotland would be in a key position and other countries would be extremely foolish if they did not seek to do all they could to accommodate Scottish interests."
http://www.snpyouth.org/documents/mccronereport.pdf

The thought of Scotland having " tremendously increased political power" clearly terrified the British to the extent that they hid this likely outcome from the Scottish nation for 30 years. The British hypocrites and their Scottish quisling accomplices are fine pushing the "tremendously increased political power" of their block down our throats at every opportunity, but for Scotland to have ended up with "tremendously increased political power" was clearly not permissible - the thought of Scotland being a more powerful player that the British terrified them to the core and they did anything and everything to prevent that happening. We cannot allow them to perpetuate the same treason on the Scottish nation again.

Clearly with Westminster nothing has changed in their attitude to Scotland's Oil since the McCrone and the Thatcher era, with Cairns just being a latter day Bernard Ingham with the added insult that he is Scottish.

From Margaret Thatcher's Bernard Ingham's
"they smelt money"
"as greedy as sin as they were"
"the only thing that fueled nationalism was
the smell of oil, money and oil"
"it really is the most monstrous piety"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mNRmugH6oBE

From Cairns we now have accusations that in regard to Scotland's oil that our First Minster is "gloating about the taxation revenue potential of high oil" and is "using it as a dubious means of making dodgy sums add up"
http://www.buteman.co.uk/latest-scottis ... 4200293.jp

"The average overrun in London was 131.5 per cent, almost four times higher than the national average overrun of 33.7 per cent and making London the worst performing region in the country."

http://tpa.typepad.com/bettergovernment ... london.pdf

[LA]

thankyou greg
the u.k is not a democracy(democracy, in the modern sense what a joke!)that i will fight for.It is a feudal class ridden domination of a group of smaller countries by a larger one.england uses the convienient cloak of "britishness" to provide anonymity for its blatant domination and abuse of power.
Is your argument that britain (as england likes to call itself when convienient)and those parasites at westminster will look after scotlands best interests???
If home rule is la la land , then i will accept brussels over westminster, every time.Welcome to our world for the past 300 years!

- There are tonnes of Scottish ministers in Government.
- Scotland receives more funding per capita than England
- Scotland receives huge funds from England to pay for its services.

Stop complaining.

You will accept Brussels over Westminster? At least someone is paying the bills for you.

[albannach]

ah lib auth. wondered when you would drop in.who is paying the bills for who - prove it?
england pays the bills show me prove it?!

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

thankyou greg
the u.k is not a democracy(democracy, in the modern sense what a joke!)that i will fight for.It is a feudal class ridden domination of a group of smaller countries by a larger one.england uses the convienient cloak of "britishness" to provide anonymity for its blatant domination and abuse of power.
Is your argument that britain (as england likes to call itself when convienient)and those parasites at westminster will look after scotlands best interests???
If home rule is la la land , then i will accept brussels over westminster, every time.Welcome to our world for the past 300 years!

Hi,

why so bitter? Has your life really been such a failure you find a need to blame others?

These United Kingdoms are considerably more of a democracy that is The EU.

That due to volcanic activity and the number of hours of sunlight required for crops to pass from germination to setting and harvest and the dust from the all too frequently mucky Icelandic volcanoes cutting that light such that Scotland was direly short of food for its peoples and it became expedient for us on this relatively small bunch of islands to 'row the boat together' it is sad to see the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Cornish just as with the Brettons, Basques stuck in history and willing so readily to cut their nose of to spite their face.

For the record I am NOT English - I am British and unlike you not ashamed of our common history on these islands.

Perhaps in a more reflective mood you would care to advise on what Scotland would fund itself were it to stand alone in competition with the residue of these United Kingdoms. As it currently stands ALL of the taxes levied in Scotland, both personal and corporate would pay EITHER for the Health Service or (in a bay year) for the highways but not for both.

I am proud to be British from long line of British many of whom have given much to create these islands as serfs and servants, miners, bankers and soldiers.

May I remind you that all too many of those parasites at Westminster would seem to be Scots at the moment and what a catastophic mess they have made in their utter economic illiteracy and parsimonious parody of intelligence!

I note you clearly haven't a clue about the global economy nor of The New Constitution you are bound by from your last couple of postings.

If these United Kingdoms have a sum total of 1/27Th. of a say in The Council of Ministers and likewise in the EU's commission where one isn't even guaranteed any say at all as it is at the discresion of that body! Then of course together we have a fractured 8% say in the farce of a parliament.

One would need to be spectacularly cranno rectally retentive to believe that Scotland excercising its percentage share of that could even justify the bus fair to attend!

Like the frog in the frying pan it would seem that all too many so called celts, whatever they may have been 2,000 years ago are stuck in history a time warp pinned down by the chips on their shoulders and are, like the frog blissfully ignorant that the water in the pan is slowly creeping up in temperature.

Scotland may actually wish to boil away emulating the glorious example of Massada but surely some say is better than none - therefore I invite you as a Brit. to get your act together and try to climb out of the pan before you boil away.

I do hope you remember to provide the answer to the earlier question as to what Scotland would intend to use for revenue in competition with the rest of Britain or is a begging bowl sufficient with a diet of chips and a light and heavy to drown its reason!

PLEEEEEZE don't quote a revenue from Whisky as the Japanese out produce Scotland by a massive amount and without controls would make Scotland a nett importer on price - IF we could afford any in Scotland.

Just as with a dowty marriage it is probably better the couple battle on for they'll unlikely find new partners and it is better to stand together than be over run by division!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[albannach]

hi greg
my argument is no more bitter than yours, for they are one and the same.
at least barrosso does not require me to bend a knee to an unelected head of state.

[LA]

hi greg
my argument is no more bitter than yours, for they are one and the same.
at least barrosso does not require me to bend a knee to an unelected head of state.

Barroso = Unelected
Queen = Unelected

Barroso = powerful
Queen = No power what so ever!

Very big difference.

[uncon]

Hi,

why so bitter? Has your life really been such a failure you find a need to blame others?

These United Kingdoms are considerably more of a democracy that is The EU.

That due to volcanic activity and the number of hours of sunlight required for crops to pass from germination to setting and harvest and the dust from the all too frequently mucky Icelandic volcanoes cutting that light such that Scotland was direly short of food for its peoples and it became expedient for us on this relatively small bunch of islands to 'row the boat together' it is sad to see the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Cornish just as with the Brettons, Basques stuck in history and willing so readily to cut their nose of to spite their face.

For the record I am NOT English - I am British and unlike you not ashamed of our common history on these islands.

Perhaps in a more reflective mood you would care to advise on what Scotland would fund itself were it to stand alone in competition with the residue of these United Kingdoms. As it currently stands ALL of the taxes levied in Scotland, both personal and corporate would pay EITHER for the Health Service or (in a bay year) for the highways but not for both.

I am proud to be British from long line of British many of whom have given much to create these islands as serfs and servants, miners, bankers and soldiers.

May I remind you that all too many of those parasites at Westminster would seem to be Scots at the moment and what a catastophic mess they have made in their utter economic illiteracy and parsimonious parody of intelligence!

I note you clearly haven't a clue about the global economy nor of The New Constitution you are bound by from your last couple of postings.

If these United Kingdoms have a sum total of 1/27Th. of a say in The Council of Ministers and likewise in the EU's commission where one isn't even guaranteed any say at all as it is at the discresion of that body! Then of course together we have a fractured 8% say in the farce of a parliament.

One would need to be spectacularly cranno rectally retentive to believe that Scotland excercising its percentage share of that could even justify the bus fair to attend!

Like the frog in the frying pan it would seem that all too many so called celts, whatever they may have been 2,000 years ago are stuck in history a time warp pinned down by the chips on their shoulders and are, like the frog blissfully ignorant that the water in the pan is slowly creeping up in temperature.

Scotland may actually wish to boil away emulating the glorious example of Massada but surely some say is better than none - therefore I invite you as a Brit. to get your act together and try to climb out of the pan before you boil away.

I do hope you remember to provide the answer to the earlier question as to what Scotland would intend to use for revenue in competition with the rest of Britain or is a begging bowl sufficient with a diet of chips and a light and heavy to drown its reason!

PLEEEEEZE don't quote a revenue from Whisky as the Japanese out produce Scotland by a massive amount and without controls would make Scotland a nett importer on price - IF we could afford any in Scotland.

Just as with a dowty marriage it is probably better the couple battle on for they'll unlikely find new partners and it is better to stand together than be over run by division!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

I love fairies. I love pixies too. Most of all I love to share my love of fairies pixies and other products of mans imagination...for example the prospects of UKIP becoming a coherent force for good rather than the equivelant of a Glasgow wedding reception which generally ends up in Casualty.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

hi greg
my argument is no more bitter than yours, for they are one and the same.
at least barrosso does not require me to bend a knee to an unelected head of state.

Hi,

Barrosso is unelected!

Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I love fairies. I love pixies too. Most of all I love to share my love of fairies pixies and other products of mans imagination...for example the prospects of UKIP becoming a coherent force for good rather than the equivelant of a Glasgow wedding reception which generally ends up in Casualty.

Did you have a point? Or just needed an excuse to display your personality?

Your offensive language and behaviour is that of a 13 year old troll.

[albannach]

barroso was not born into a position of privelege and power simply through an accident of birth, clearly the point i am making.
I find it strange that the people complaining about the corruption and anti democracy of the e.u, are the same people wishing to carry on with the monarchy , house of lords etc.
DUH! Your logic really does escape me greg, coming on this forum looking for allies against the evil e.u , then trying to belittle any other opinion.Typical of you pathetic little men in your ukip blazers.
I was born in scotland , therefore i am clearly a scot. Not very hard to work out.So don`t try the synthetic term "british " with me.
The real british gave up using that term in the 10th century, when they were pushed into what is now wales and cornwall by your english ancestors , of whom they were the bitterest of enemies.
Funny how we are british when english football hooligans riot , the rule of thumb appears to be when the celts do something laudable they are british(or when nasty little english nationalists like you want our support), if we do somehthing dis pleasing we go back to being scottish , irish or welsh.
There is no british nation nor even a british state.The united kingdom of great britian and northern ireland has been a multinational state since its inception.Multinational as in comprises of several nations.A state formed by the imperialist ambitions of the dominant nation , england , through military conquest and political power.The term british is a complete misnomer , or rather a deliberate political camoulflage.
So stick to the south east of england greg, cause no one else gives a s**T.

[albannach]

liberal authoritarian
stop moaning.As a small nation england is well represented at brussels, and at least you have someone to bail out your bankrupt country.
I`m european , not british, long live the e.u!