A General Election sooner rather than later?

[Major Sinic]

Most people over the age of thirty remember the dying months of Major's last Conservative administration. A Prime Minister who had lost control of his cabinet and party, a party internally divided, an absence of active government and a sense of marking time to the inevitable defeat at the polls, bankrupt of policy and integrity. Anyone else got a sense of deja-vu as we witness the exact self-same situation with Labour?

It is in both the national interest and the Labour Party's interests to have the election sooner rather than later. It is in the nations interests because government has all but ground to a halt, and we need strong and positive government now more than ever.

It is in Labour's interests because the longer they delay the larger will be their defeat. After Cameron's 'wobble' over providing tax benefits to married couples, he has quickly regained stability, and as the steady release of sensible policies are rolled out, the Tory lead is stabilising and will almost certainly increase.

Conversely whatever Brown thinks or says, he is still the leader of Labour and PM only because his successor, whoever it may be, doesn't want and won't take the job until after Labour are defeated and in Opposition. His statement that he will remain as leader for a full parliament will only serve to improve the Conservatives results at the polls. The one thing worse than a Labour Government in the eyes of the majority of the electorate, is a Labour Government with Gordon Brown leading it.

The only reason the last two coups failed is because not one of the contenders for the top job wants it, until after Labour suffer their inevitable defeat at the polls. If Brown doesn't realise this he is totally out of touch and in denial. Brown deserves to be blamed for the coming defeat because it is his responsibility. He was a disloyal and incompetent minister during the Blairite years, and has shown himself to be an ill-organised and vacillating Prime Minister. The more the electorate see and hear him, and the more they witness the growing divisions within the Labour Party the greater will be Labours defeat.

The increasing likelihood of an overall Conservative majority is down to the momentum of Labours decline, more than any other factor.

[Barry]

Major, I agree with everything in your post, however I cannot see this arrogant and defiant man Brown giving up his obsession with power until the last possible moment.
That said, the most convenient time for an election is to coincide with the council elections - therefore May 6th is likely to be the date.
This should help with the turnout.

[GreenAndPleasant]

Would the delay in calling an election have anything to do with Blairs forthcoming appearance at the inquiry? It would surely damage Brown & co further if they were campaigning through Blairs revelations.

[Major Sinic]

Would the delay in calling an election have anything to do with Blairs forthcoming appearance at the inquiry? It would surely damage Brown & co further if they were campaigning through Blairs revelations.

I would think it will damage their electoral prospects just as much for the General Election to take place immediately after the public witnesses Blairs inevitable prevarications, obfuscations, half truths, distortions and 'forgetfulness'. I am hopeful that for the first time in no less than four inquiries, the first three were set up to be as undamaging as possible to the government, that Sir John Chilcot is his own man and that his terms of reference are sufficiently broad, that Blair will be left with nowhere to retreat.

[Scooby]

I doubt that we will get an early election for the following reasons:
1) Brown feels that being prime minister is his right, and thus his ego will not allow him to stand aside.
2) With the country still in recession and unemployment still rising, he will not want to go into an election campaign without at least some improving financial circumstances.
3) He will not want to rush an election because he will then have to go before the iraq enquiry.
4) He will not want to be campaigning whilst Blair could be lying or spreading the blame in front of the enquiry, and even if Blair just throws up a smokescreen at the least the whole Iraq issue will be in right back in the public's eye.
5) Brown will be still hoping and praying that the tories seriously **** up, and the onger he clings on, the more tiem he gives it.

[GreenAndPleasant]

I'm quite ignorant of the workings of parliament, Is there any mechanism that allows public or parliament to force an election?

[Barry]

I'm quite ignorant of the workings of parliament, Is there any mechanism that allows public or parliament to force an election?

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1. The public have no say.
2. The parliament term is max 5 years.
3. The Queen can dissolve parliament on her own initiative.
4. The Prime Minister can ask the Queen for a disolution of parliament.
5. The government could have a vote of "no confidence" in the house which practically calls for the disoltion of parliament.

Are there any other means?

[LA]

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1. The public have no say.
2. The parliament term is max 5 years.
3. The Queen can dissolve parliament on her own initiative.
4. The Prime Minister can ask the Queen for a disolution of parliament.
5. The government could have a vote of "no confidence" in the house which practically calls for the disoltion of parliament.

Are there any other means?

Parliament has a flexible five years. The election can be called at any time within the five years.

The Queen dissolves parliament upon the advice of her ministers - I.e. the Prime Minister tells her to.

[Midas]

I'd personally like to see fixed term periods for Parliament to eliminate the power of the Prime Minister to call an election at his/her convenience, to remove the uncertainty from politics which comes from no-one knowing when the election will be held, and to put all parties on an equal footing as regards timing.

Under the present system the Prime Minister can call a general election at any point within five years of the previous election, and surprise surprise, this nearly always this is done at a time when he or she thinks they stand the best chance of winning or the opposition the best chance of losing. Fixed term Parliaments would pretty much eliminate these problems - problems as far as both the country and the electorate are concerned at least.

[Expounder]

I'd personally like to see fixed term periods for Parliament to eliminate the power of the Prime Minister to call an election at his/her convenience, to remove the uncertainty from politics which comes from no-one knowing when the election will be held, and to put all parties on an equal footing as regards timing.

Under the present system the Prime Minister can call a general election at any point within five years of the previous election, and surprise surprise, this nearly always this is done at a time when he or she thinks they stand the best chance of winning or the opposition the best chance of losing. Fixed term Parliaments would pretty much eliminate these problems - problems as far as both the country and the electorate are concerned at least.

I didn't hear the Tories pushing for this when when they were in office. All we have heard from the opposition is total negative nit picking about the Labour government without any sound policy statement emanating from the shadow cabinet other than giving more money to the well off and a botched married couples tax advantage . It seems they hope to win the election by default by hanging onto the belief that Brown's unpopularity will give them the keys to No.11.

It's three months to go now before the GE and the jury [the electorate] is still out. The Tories can't spell out their hidden agenda as it would lose them the election if they did.

[Tete123]

I didn't hear the Tories pushing for this when when they were in office. All we have heard from the opposition is total negative nit picking about the Labour government without any sound policy statement emanating from the shadow cabinet other than giving more money to the well off and a botched married couples tax advantage . It seems they hope to win the election by default by hanging onto the belief that Brown's unpopularity will give them the keys to No.11.

It's three months to go now before the GE and the jury [the electorate] is still out. The Tories can't spell out their hidden agenda as it would lose them the election if they did.

Negative nit picking or fair criticism of a failing Government? - the impartial and normally professional Civil Service consider this Labour administration incompetent and have been vocal in making their opinions known Exp: Whitehall rebels over ‘brutish’ Gordon Brown - Times Online

[Expounder]

Negative nit picking or fair criticism of a failing Government? - the impartial and normally professional Civil Service consider this Labour administration incompetent and have been vocal in making their opinions known Exp: Whitehall rebels over ‘brutish’ Gordon Brown - Times Online

Politically motivated Tory moles who have been advised to crawl out of the woodwork to add their two pennyworth to add to Cameron's naked policy strategy of negative campaigning against Labour. Civil servants are paid to implement government policies, among them I'm sure there's hefty representation of Tory supporters only too willing to add to Cameron's policy of negativity.

[Major Sinic]

Politically motivated Tory moles who have been advised to crawl out of the woodwork to add their two pennyworth to add to Cameron's naked policy strategy of negative campaigning against Labour. Civil servants are paid to implement government policies, among them I'm sure there's hefty representation of Tory supporters only too willing to add to Cameron's policy of negativity.

The Labour Party's balloon is deflating faster than ever. Even the over paid, over pensioned Whitehall mandarins have had enough of this incoherent, ineffectual and corrupt government led by a weak, stubborn, vacillating and wholly out of touch Prime Minister.

The question is will the Labour balloon have dispelled all its hot air by the time Browns lying, dishonest and manipulative predecessor appears before the Chilcott Inquiry, or will this final little prick burst it? Whatever, the longer they stagger on bereft of policy or principle the greater will be their ultimate humiliation.

PS. Welcome back Expounder. Been on holiday?

[Expounder]

The Labour Party's balloon is deflating faster than ever. Even the over paid, over pensioned Whitehall mandarins have had enough of this incoherent, ineffectual and corrupt government led by a weak, stubborn, vacillating and wholly out of touch Prime Minister.

The question is will the Labour balloon have dispelled all its hot air by the time Browns lying, dishonest and manipulative predecessor appears before the Chilcott Inquiry, or will this final little prick burst it? Whatever, the longer they stagger on bereft of policy or principle the greater will be their ultimate humiliation.

PS. Welcome back Expounder. Been on holiday?

Hi there major, on holiday? life's just one long holiday at my age. The forum is becoming more of a chat site[ like, what the cat had for breakfast etc] I will continue to contribute probably not at the rate I have in the past. The forum really caters mainly for the politically right
as many others do, and it on occasions becomes boring fencing with the same entrenched arguments.

You only have to compare the membership private Conservative club on the forum [which must be humming] I can't confirm this as I don't have access. Look the Labour one to see that I am possibly the only potential member of the Labour club and possibly the only Labour stalwart contributor to the forum. I'm not complaining, but it's well known fact that right wingers of every hue are more active on the net than Labour supporters which doesn't prove much except the right have always been more vocal which is a shame but maybe Labour supportrs are more busy working earning a living and haven't the inclination in there free time to argue against a barrage of bile spouted by the extreme right and Tory supporters.

The carping Whitehall mandarins are Tory moles/supporters who are politically motivated to put the boot into Labour. Cameron is using every nit picking trick to rubbish Labour but it's not over till the "fat lady sings", or so they say, and with the lead up to the election Cameron and his crew are still not trusted by the electorate there is no guarantee he will receive an overwhelming mandate if any from them which could make for a very interesting post GE period.

[JAMC]

I'm quite ignorant of the workings of parliament, Is there any mechanism that allows public or parliament to force an election?

If only!

There were a time, back yonder, when politicians called elections early once they had lost the confidence or support of the electorate. I believe it was considered morally repugnant to try and govern without a clear mandate.

Such times have descended into the mists of the past. The current crop of useless spongers we call parliament have not a shred of integrity between them and are content to drag the sorry charade out to the maximum extent permitted in law.

A mechanism whereby the electorate could force the dissolution of parliament would be a massive step forward towards re-establishing decent goverance of the country.

[Expounder]

If only!

There were a time, back yonder, when politicians called elections early once they had lost the confidence or support of the electorate. I believe it was considered morally repugnant to try and govern without a clear mandate.

Such times have descended into the mists of the past. The current crop of useless spongers we call parliament have not a shred of integrity between them and are content to drag the sorry charade out to the maximum extent permitted in law.

A mechanism whereby the electorate could force the dissolution of parliament would be a massive step forward towards re-establishing decent goverance of the country.

There never was a "time back yonder" Politicians of every ilk managed their time in office to suit their advantage, they wouldn't be politicians otherwise. All politician's have a degree of self interest as you no doubt have yourself, why should they be any different ?


I would also point out that MPs like every other profession are drawn from the ranks of the public and probably have the same mix of morals. Politicians as saints is what you appear to want is a pipe dream and unachievable goal. It seems you can't wait to be governed by a cabinet of millionaires who are totally out of touch with working class reality.

[The Untalented Mr Ripley]

I would also point out that MPs like every other profession are drawn from the ranks of the public and probably have the same mix of morals. Politicians as saints is what you appear to want is a pipe dream and unachievable goal. It seems you can't wait to be governed by a cabinet of millionaires who are totally out of touch with working class reality.

I would like the cabinet to be made up of politicians who value honesty, endeavour, freedom, liberty, listening to the population and act in good faith and conscience for the good of society and the country.

Alas, Labour has delivered vested interest (to the city, Murdock, the Americans), it has cultivated an underclass of have-nots who are content to live on benefits, it has gone to (an illegal) war against the wishes of the British people, it has openned the floodgates in terms of immigation and been dishonest about this, it has allowed the banks to throw us into recession (seemingly without affecting bankers' bonuses) and introduced horrendously illiberal policies and police powers that go against everything the British used to believe it. Compared to that lot millionaires are welcomed!

As for working class reality, which reality is that? The one where to improve their lot in life you encourage your kids to go to uni only to be sadled with 18k debt for the privilege and then to discover that graduate degrees have less value than ever before, the one where social moblity has been crippled, the one where the welfare state has become a trap rather than a safety net, the one where your children are going to be the least happy (according to Unicef) and have the amongst the highest chance of getting pregnant, in trouble with the law and hooked on drugs in Europe/The West. Hmmm.

Neither Labour or the Tories are the answer, problem is I don't know who or what is.

[Major Sinic]

If only!

There were a time, back yonder, when politicians called elections early once they had lost the confidence or support of the electorate. I believe it was considered morally repugnant to try and govern without a clear mandate.

Such times have descended into the mists of the past. The current crop of useless spongers we call parliament have not a shred of integrity between them and are content to drag the sorry charade out to the maximum extent permitted in law.

A mechanism whereby the electorate could force the dissolution of parliament would be a massive step forward towards re-establishing decent goverance of the country.

I agree with you entirely. Sad to say it is not only the Labour Party either. Anyone much over the age of thirty must surely have a sense of deja-vu. I recall exactly the same political vacillation and futile clinging to power of John Major's administration in 1997. I felt the same sense of anger and contempt for the Major's administration then as I do for Brown's now.

[angelcountry]

L.o.l you sound like vava vu, next time dont doubt my ability and inteligent now!

[JAMC]

There never was a "time back yonder" Politicians of every ilk managed their time in office to suit their advantage, they wouldn't be politicians otherwise. All politician's have a degree of self interest as you no doubt have yourself, why should they be any different ?


I would also point out that MPs like every other profession are drawn from the ranks of the public and probably have the same mix of morals. Politicians as saints is what you appear to want is a pipe dream and unachievable goal. It seems you can't wait to be governed by a cabinet of millionaires who are totally out of touch with working class reality.

There was never a time whereby politicians were inherently more virtuous - that much is true. The point I was attempting to convey was that the standards they were expected to live up to in previous eras were a) higher and b) the pressure to comply with them was greater.

Suez was enough to topple Eden - the expectations of Blair and Brown, both of whom were involved in the far messier Iraq debacle, were utterly different.

[Expounder]

There was never a time whereby politicians were inherently more virtuous - that much is true. The point I was attempting to convey was that the standards they were expected to live up to in previous eras were a) higher and b) the pressure to comply with them was greater.

Suez was enough to topple Eden - the expectations of Blair and Brown, both of whom were involved in the far messier Iraq debacle, were utterly different.

I remember this well as I was on army reserve expecting a recall. After the Americans lined up with the Soviets in the UN and condemned the British and French action it was all over. Britain was metaphorically in rags and destitute and was dependant on American support. Eden's political demise was mainly down to international outrage, his resignation was a formality after the UN resolution.