Germany calling

[wunterundermiejer]

I am a corresponant for the respected german publication Wunter under Meijer and would dearly like to get some hoenst opinions from the enlgish public on the upcoming elections.

Our newpaper has always supported the euro zone and so find it hard to reconcile the snetiments of some in your country, though it seems our dear chancellor has now bought greece in its entirity.

Will you back brown as he has kept you out of the euro or do you feel that qualifiaction for the euro was a basci requirement for his job.

will you sack craig now he has shown such rudeness to the voters?

Who do you think the new man in charge will align himself with in the europe of today?

where do you want to see your country going in 4 years. Will you stil be struggling to complete on the world stage?

Yours

Olaf Mungerlicker
wunter under miejer political commentator

[Midas]

I am a corresponant for the respected german publication Wunter under Meijer and would dearly like to get some hoenst opinions from the enlgish public on the upcoming elections.

Our newpaper has always supported the euro zone and so find it hard to reconcile the snetiments of some in your country, though it seems our dear chancellor has now bought greece in its entirity.

Will you back brown as he has kept you out of the euro or do you feel that qualifiaction for the euro was a basci requirement for his job.

will you sack craig now he has shown such rudeness to the voters?

Who do you think the new man in charge will align himself with in the europe of today?

where do you want to see your country going in 4 years. Will you stil be struggling to complete on the world stage?

Yours

Olaf Mungerlicker
wunter under miejer political commentator

Hi Olaf, and welcome to the Politics Forum! It's good to see someone else from mainland Europe here.

To start with you might like to read the extended "Welcome" message in the Rules and Guidelines section of the forum, which also includes a full version of the Forum Rules.

Knowing what’s appropriate to say and post and what isn’t can save everyone a great deal of hassle, and as such you might also find the Guide to Good Posting useful. If you’re unfamiliar with the type of forum software we use here, a brief guide to using it can be found here. Please respect other people’s views here; they mightn’t be the same as yours, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re wrong, just that they're different.

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Perhaps you’d care to formally introduce yourself, which you can do here, or optionally tell us a little bit more about yourself here.

Enjoy the debates, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of views and opinions from other members.

[Citizen Smith]

Nice to have someone from the birthplace of the great Carl Marx

[DougieG]

Generally, the feeling is that people won't necessarily refuse to vote Labour simply because of what recently happened with the bigot comment. It's looking more and more likely that there will be a hung parliament, hopefully with the Liberal Democrats in power. I do wonder whether or not a lot of Labour voters will switch to the Lib Dems because of 'Bigotgate'. Cameron remains fairly popular, but is just failing to get the widespread support now that a lot of people are viewing the Liberal Democrats as a sensible voting choice. As to your specific questions:

I'm personally torn on the Euro issue. I think that it would have many positive and negative impacts on our economy. On the whole, I tend to be more Pro-Europe, but it's not a big voting issue for me - it's not likely to change my choice of vote.

Depends on who wins as to the Europe stance. I really, really hope that Cameron doesn't win because his attitude to Europe is silly. He essentially wants to remain in the EU but not be very prominent in it. Well that's not his intention but it's what would happen. Clegg is far more Pro-Europe, but he's unlikely to be our next leader. It could be significant if we do change our electoral system to be closer to Germany's, mind you.

I think we will always have SOME significance in the world, due mainly to history. That significance is slipping away, which is why it is important to get properly committed to Europe and to take a truly leading role in it.

[Blazzin]

Generally, the feeling is that people won't necessarily refuse to vote Labour simply because of what recently happened with the bigot comment. It's looking more and more likely that there will be a hung parliament, hopefully with the Liberal Democrats in power. I do wonder whether or not a lot of Labour voters will switch to the Lib Dems because of 'Bigotgate'. Cameron remains fairly popular, but is just failing to get the widespread support now that a lot of people are viewing the Liberal Democrats as a sensible voting choice. As to your specific questions:

I'm personally torn on the Euro issue. I think that it would have many positive and negative impacts on our economy. On the whole, I tend to be more Pro-Europe, but it's not a big voting issue for me - it's not likely to change my choice of vote.

Depends on who wins as to the Europe stance. I really, really hope that Cameron doesn't win because his attitude to Europe is silly. He essentially wants to remain in the EU but not be very prominent in it. Well that's not his intention but it's what would happen. Clegg is far more Pro-Europe, but he's unlikely to be our next leader. It could be significant if we do change our electoral system to be closer to Germany's, mind you.

I think we will always have SOME significance in the world, due mainly to history. That significance is slipping away, which is why it is important to get properly committed to Europe and to take a truly leading role in it.

This is the perhaps the most sensible thing anyone has written about Europe in a long while. UKIP suffer from a severe FACT deficit as do most Euro skeptics. The arguments against European integration and for isolation really don't stand up to scrutiny neither does the straight banana story (which never actually happened nor was every suggested by anyone in the EU) is interesting how these euro myths become excepted facts.

The only thing I would disagree with is not seeing the European Union as a big issue. Which it is for many (often misguided) anti-Europeans and it on another level it is vital for future survival of Europe which (by the way) includes Great Britain. As for history being a factor in maintain our influence , this is likely to be short lived look at Austria/ Hungary or Italy (both had huge empires once) and ... where are they now (Ok in the case of Italy they out performing us economically)

Which leads me to another side point
Italy
France
Germany
and I think maybe even Spain contribute more to the EU than the Uk does (net) so why ddo people think we get such a bad deal from them?

[DougieG]

This is the perhaps the most sensible thing anyone has written about Europe in a long while. UKIP suffer from a severe FACT deficit as do most Euro skeptics. The arguments against European integration and for isolation really don't stand up to scrutiny neither does the straight banana story (which never actually happened nor was every suggested by anyone in the EU) is interesting how these euro myths become excepted facts.

The only thing I would disagree with is not seeing the European Union as a big issue. Which it is for many (often misguided) anti-Europeans and it on another level it is vital for future survival of Europe which (by the way) includes Great Britain. As for history being a factor in maintain our influence , this is likely to be short lived look at Austria/ Hungary or Italy (both had huge empires once) and ... where are they now (Ok in the case of Italy they out performing us economically)

Which leads me to another side point
Italy
France
Germany
and I think maybe even Spain contribute more to the EU than the Uk does (net) so why ddo people think we get such a bad deal from them?

When I describe the Euro as not a big issue to me, I meant the currency rather than the continent I certainly agree with this post.

[Blazzin]

This is the perhaps the most sensible thing anyone has written about Europe in a long while. UKIP suffer from a severe FACT deficit as do most Euro skeptics. The arguments against European integration and for isolation really don't stand up to scrutiny neither does the straight banana story (which never actually happened nor was every suggested by anyone in the EU) is interesting how these euro myths become excepted facts.

The only thing I would disagree with is not seeing the European Union as a big issue. Which it is for many (often misguided) anti-Europeans and it on another level it is vital for future survival of Europe which (by the way) includes Great Britain. As for history being a factor in maintain our influence , this is likely to be short lived look at Austria/ Hungary or Italy (both had huge empires once) and ... where are they now (Ok in the case of Italy they out performing us economically)

Which leads me to another side point
Italy
France
Germany
and I think maybe even Spain contribute more to the EU than the Uk does (net) so why ddo people think we get such a bad deal from them?

My grammar is awful I've become so slack 'excepted' wtf!!! Please excuse this post I cannot be bothered to amend it but ya get the idea! Anyway, cheers doug for reading my drivel

[Armand Nuttsacher]

The British elections are very confusing in how they are organised. They don't make easy following for overseas people.

How is it that Labour are third in yesno poles yet, look set to take the most chairs? How much does appearance alter mens vote?

[Heinrich Lippschitz]

The British elections are very confusing in how they are organised. They don't make easy following for overseas people.

How is it that Labour are third in yesno poles yet, look set to take the most chairs? How much does appearance alter mens vote?

I am also off the idea that Herr Cameron is not knowing his history.

Frau Thatcher said ther is no such thing as a Society. Herr Cameron says it is a Big Society. Who is in the right place of knowing these things?

[DougieG]

The British elections are very confusing in how they are organised. They don't make easy following for overseas people.

How is it that Labour are third in yesno poles yet, look set to take the most chairs? How much does appearance alter mens vote?

Yes, that's true. Our entire political system is a mess, and believe me most British people don't understand it. It would take thousands of words to explain properly...

[Streetwalker]

I am a corresponant for the respected german publication Wunter under Meijer and would dearly like to get some hoenst opinions from the enlgish public on the upcoming elections.

Our newpaper has always supported the euro zone and so find it hard to reconcile the snetiments of some in your country, though it seems our dear chancellor has now bought greece in its entirity.

Will you back brown as he has kept you out of the euro or do you feel that qualifiaction for the euro was a basci requirement for his job.

will you sack craig now he has shown such rudeness to the voters?

Who do you think the new man in charge will align himself with in the europe of today?

where do you want to see your country going in 4 years. Will you stil be struggling to complete on the world stage?

Yours

Olaf Mungerlicker
wunter under miejer political commentator

Hello Olaf
There are many here who despise Brown,or rather the party he represents. Labour would take us into the Euro if they thought they could get away with it,they wouldnt.They were elected last time on the promise that they would give the people of the UK a referendum on the Constitution (later called the Lisbon treaty) they diddn't.

Craig Brown was the manager of the Scotland football team Gordon is also Scottish and I can see where you made that mistake ,both wanting to beat England into submission.

The new man in charge,whoever that may be will continue to allow the EU more power over the British people.

I would like to see the UK out of the EU. At the very least I would like a Referendum on wether we should be in or out. The people of the UK have never been asked if we want to be part of the fedralist state,we have been dragged in against our will.
We have little influence on the World stage as a nation,the days of the "Empire" are long gone.
Being part of the EU is a financial burden (as Germany is aware) that we can do without.Putting aside any political ideals and dreams of true democracy the cost of our membership is reason enough to get out

[Streetwalker]

Which leads me to another side point
Italy
France
Germany
and I think maybe even Spain contribute more to the EU than the Uk does (net) so why ddo people think we get such a bad deal from them?

Projected share of net contributions 2010
Germany 19.6 %
France 18
Italy 13.9
UK 10.4
Spain 9.6

Apart from that membership of the EU has cost the UK £124 billion since 1998. I cant for the life of me see where anyone would think thats a good deal

[Midas]

Projected share of net contributions 2010
Germany 19.6 %
France 18
Italy 13.9
UK 10.4
Spain 9.6

Apart from that membership of the EU has cost the UK £124 billion since 1998. I cant for the life of me see where anyone would think thats a good deal

Me neither. If anyone has been involved in running a business in any way, they'd know how much legislation and other directives now come out of Brussels, and how much of it, quite frankly, isn't worth the paper it's written on. Our own home grown legislation is bad enough. Estimates vary, but somewhere between 2-3% of all business turnover is now taken up with complying with this EU nonsense, and that's billions of pounds wasted; for goodness sake, who wants to, or needs to, wade though a 20 odd page directive relating to the manufacture and fitting of doors in ladies and gents toilets!! I kid you not, that's the sort of stuff on which our money gets spent.

[DougieG]

we have been dragged in against our will.

Don't believe this. The ones who dislike the EU are the ones who shout the loudest, complaining at every possible opportunity that we shouldn't have close ties with the rest of Europe. Most of the UK do not think like this. Most people think it is OK - they are not hugely enthusiastic about it but most don't mind it at all. Streetwalker is not representative of the population.

[Streetwalker]

Don't believe this. The ones who dislike the EU are the ones who shout the loudest, complaining at every possible opportunity that we shouldn't have close ties with the rest of Europe. Most of the UK do not think like this. Most people think it is OK - they are not hugely enthusiastic about it but most don't mind it at all. Streetwalker is not representative of the population.

Of course we should have close ties with the rest of Europe and the World for that matter.Close ties being alliances and trade agreements not being dictated to by unelected commissioners in Brussels.
A Referendum on the matter would see what Most people in the UK think but of course we will never be given one. The powers to be would not like the outcome.Dont forget an anti EU party (UKIP) had more votes than the party in power (labour) at the last Euro elections. I may be more representative of more of the population than you would like to believe

[DougieG]

A Referendum on the matter would see what Most people in the UK think but of course we will never be given one. The powers to be would not like the outcome.

The problem is that most people don't understand the EU. A referendum is pointless because it is not a value judgment, like reintroducing capital punishment or something, but is rather based around a huge amount of complex law, procedures and agreements. I've studied it academically for 3 years now, and all that I have realised is how little I really know. It could be said to be TOO complex, but it's not really. Not for something that governs millions of people. A referendum would therefore be ridiculous - people would be voting based on a complete lack of knowledge.

[ryoden]

I dont blame you for finding our voting system hard to understand, it's a complete mess and needs reform.

On the subject of Europe I am of the opinion that it costs us too much for too little benefit to remain in the EU, I would prefer we remain trading partners but not be a federalist state within the EU.

I doubt the bigot comment will swing opinion that much since entrenched Labour voters much like Tory voters won't change their vote regardless, but i think it will cause the Labour party to oust Brown when Labour fails to win the election outright in order to enable them to form a coalition with the Liberals.

Our country in 4 years, well the Empire days are long gone but I dont think we will become less involved on the world stage even if we arent in the EU (although I expect we will remain firmly stuck there).

[stewy]

Me neither. If anyone has been involved in running a business in any way, they'd know how much legislation and other directives now come out of Brussels, and how much of it, quite frankly, isn't worth the paper it's written on. Our own home grown legislation is bad enough. Estimates vary, but somewhere between 2-3% of all business turnover is now taken up with complying with this EU nonsense, and that's billions of pounds wasted; for goodness sake, who wants to, or needs to, wade though a 20 odd page directive relating to the manufacture and fitting of doors in ladies and gents toilets!! I kid you not, that's the sort of stuff on which our money gets spent.

i agree with this , but i also think we should remain at the forefront of the e.u and help redress many of the idiotic legislation that sometimes comes out of brussels that puts financial pressure on many business.On the flip side of the coin , the e.u helps finance organisations like business link that gives out valuable free advice and help to many small businesses. Encourage the pros of the e.u and reform the cons.

[Streetwalker]

The problem is that most people don't understand the EU. A referendum is pointless because it is not a value judgment, like reintroducing capital punishment or something, but is rather based around a huge amount of complex law, procedures and agreements. I've studied it academically for 3 years now, and all that I have realised is how little I really know. It could be said to be TOO complex, but it's not really. Not for something that governs millions of people. A referendum would therefore be ridiculous - people would be voting based on a complete lack of knowledge.

Dissregarding the Public and putting yourself on the "I know best" High horse Dougie. You are well on your way to becoming a politition.

Besides even the simplest of folk would understand the question which could run something like this

Do you wish to remain part of a Union which costs
Buisness £28 billion per year to comply with its regulations
£17 billion in extra food costs because of the common agriculture policy
A Union that allows Europes fishing fleet to rape our waters and orders them to leave 800,000 tonns of dead fish floating in the North Sea and 1.3 million tonns in the North Atlantic.
A Union that harms the enviroment,third world countries and UK jobs
A Union that overules our courts and takes precedence over our laws.

A union that allows UK citizens to be arrested and taken abroard without appeal.

On the other hand you may be loosing
Medical assistance throughout the EU(though you can still pay a tenner for insurance like you used to).The right to buy a holiday home in Slovenia and your pets passports.

Ok thats it, IN or OUT

[Citizen Smith]

I think the list of reasons you gave may have been a tiny bit biased street.

[Streetwalker]

I think the list of reasons you gave may have been a tiny bit biased street.

Not at all

[DougieG]

Dissregarding the Public and putting yourself on the "I know best" High horse Dougie. You are well on your way to becoming a politition.

Besides even the simplest of folk would understand the question which could run something like this

Do you wish to remain part of a Union which costs
Buisness £28 billion per year to comply with its regulations
£17 billion in extra food costs because of the common agriculture policy
A Union that allows Europes fishing fleet to rape our waters and orders them to leave 800,000 tonns of dead fish floating in the North Sea and 1.3 million tonns in the North Atlantic.
A Union that harms the enviroment,third world countries and UK jobs
A Union that overules our courts and takes precedence over our laws.

A union that allows UK citizens to be arrested and taken abroard without appeal.

On the other hand you may be loosing
Medical assistance throughout the EU(though you can still pay a tenner for insurance like you used to).The right to buy a holiday home in Slovenia and your pets passports.

Ok thats it, IN or OUT

You've listed some of the negative points (although the environment point is absurd) and none of the positives. I'm not putting myself above others as such, I just recognise that none of us are that qualified to judge the EU's value.

[Streetwalker]

You've listed some of the negative points (although the environment point is absurd) and none of the positives. I'm not putting myself above others as such, I just recognise that none of us are that qualified to judge the EU's value.

I have left it for others to list the positive points as I am at a loss to think of any at this time.
In reply to the enviroment point,as mentioned the tonns of dead fish floating around our coast for one, other EU enviromental own goals are:
The Common Agriculture policy,intensive farming methods have led to the polution of watercourses,the distruction of natural features and wildlife habitats.The use of incectisides and herbersides. A report by the RSPB has found that Europes bird population has halved in the past 25 years as a direct result of the EU's policies

[Streetwalker]

As usual as with our polititions the silence is deafening