David laws! Should he stay or should he go?

[Major Sinic]

OK the guy is a talented and experienced economist. He is almost certainly potentially the best Chief Secretary to the Treasury for at least thirteen years, and is already showing early signs that he is more than up to the job of working with George Osborne in handling the massive budget deficit, inherited as a result of Labour's economic incompetence.

However, deliberately or not(!!!) he has broken the rules, and would seem to have collected £40k from the long suffering taxpayer to which he is not entitled. The issue about him being a homosexual is not in my opinion relevant to the issue. He could be a necrophiliac or sheepshagger for all I care, as long as he gets the deficit down.

So should he resign? Should Clegg co-operate with Cameron and fire him? Should Cameron over-rule Clegg and fire him anyway? Or is it in the country's interests that he stay in post?

[Major Sinic]

Well events have made this post superfluous. We have had so many years under Labour where the corrupt and inept have clung to power, when any other person with a remaining shred of integrity would have resigned, that I was conditioned to expect more of the same.

I believe David Laws took the only acceptable cause of action in the light of his actions. Sadly the country will not benefit, because his successor Danny Alexander is not an experienced economist with a proven commercial track record, but an ex-press officer for a national park!

[joethfc]

This has actually irritated me; I just wonder if the media wanted a chance to get some revenge on the Lib Dems for the capital gains tax and no inheritance tax. He has done a bad thing but he wasn't the only one in the cabinet. Seems like a bit of a witch hunt to me and who knows how this whole fiddle came about (not defending him any more than I am anyone else who has been persecuted by the holier-than-thou press).

[uncon]

he actually claimed no other living expenses which does back up his claim that it was to hide his sexuality. If he is living in another mans house rent-free then the connections are there to be made and we should remember that there was a lot of ambiguity in the rules until 2008. The rent arrangements hint at roommates only.

BUT

There is something disingenuous about a man who claims to have refused to join the Tory party because of Clause 28 and is on record as voting against it, yet is apparently so ashamed at his own relationships and sexuality that he would go against his own conscience to protect it.

If this had come out in the main scandal then it would have been worthy of little comment now. It is sad that we have lost one of the most astute financial brains from a position where he could have done most good through his own silliness. Laws was a retired millionaire at the age of 28, and genuinely went into politics to make a difference and benefit his country rather than himself. We could do with a few more of them!

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Hi,

Tom Wise MEP was sentenced to 2 years in November for the theft of a lesser sum of tax payers’ money despite the extensive efforts of people like Nigel Farage MEP, Trevor Colman MEP, Roger Knapman MEP, Mike Natrass MEP in colluding in his crime.

Lindsay Jenkins who assisted him eventually had the charges dropped against her.

Tom Wise served less than a 1/4 of his sentence and was seen out of prison in May.

Was this because he was a politician and they have different rules for politicians, so that he can spend the £1/4 Million he amassed in his pension fund in under 5 years!

Why does it seem as if David Laws is remaining as an MP and will not be sent to jail for his criminal theft of tax payers’ money and deliberate dishonesty and corruption in public office?

Why are Politicians not expected to obey the law like the rest of us?

Is it because so many of them are criminals and corrupt? Lets face it few of them EARN their salary and fiddles and heaven knows they are incredibly easy to replace – just look at all those muppets on the stage with the Returning Officers at elections.

I am sickened by their behaviour whilst they send our young soldiers to die in their illegal wars!

The Party Political structure of the 18th.Century, the solutions of the 19th. Century, the morality of the late 20th. century and the problems caused by parties for the 21st. Century are NO WAY to Govern.

Party Politics has betrayed us and it is time for an INDEPENDENT Leave-the-EU Alliance.

David Laws’ position is utterly indefensible and there is absolutely no justification for keeping liars, thieves and charlatans in office yet sending burglars to prison for stealing a couple of thousand at most. If Government has no morals why should they expect morality from the public who employ them?

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Barry]

I am sure there are plenty more economic brainboxes out there, amongst the millions of unemployed.
Therefore, we can make do without this cheat.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I am sure there are plenty more economic brainboxes out there, amongst the millions of unemployed.
Therefore, we can make do without this cheat.

Hi,

in a position of trust representing my Country I want a decent responsible bean counter NOT another 13 unlucky years of clever dicks!

There will never again be an opportunity to set a standard of honourable, ethical, probity, decency and morality.

I am indifferent to his perversions for as long as they are within the framework of our laws but there is no law which condones his theft, his lies, and his corruption - of course his constituency was aware he was a pervert and they were disinterested but they did not know he was a liar and a thief.

There is absolutely no place for a criminal in office now, nor in the future nor is there ANY justification for EVER permitting their return.

There is no mittigation and my Country comes first not in expedience but in integrity. My Country must never again be prostituted as in those unlucky 13 years.

That my other Ministers have doubts of this merely shows them for their own inadequacy to hold high office.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[Major Sinic]

I am sure there are plenty more economic brainboxes out there, amongst the millions of unemployed.
Therefore, we can make do without this cheat.

You are of course right. His position is indefensible and he had to go, although that didn't stop dozens of other politicians clinging to power with finger nails that were much stronger than their integrity.

It is such a bitter disappointment though. I, along with millions of others, had so hoped that this coalition was the start of a brave new world, and that the days when our parliament was dogged by self-interest, sleaze, corruption, lies and dishonesty were over.

At the very least, on this occasion the guilty party fell on his sword with some vestige of integrity.

[Opinionated]

he actually claimed no other living expenses which does back up his claim that it was to hide his sexuality. If he is living in another mans house rent-free then the connections are there to be made and we should remember that there was a lot of ambiguity in the rules until 2008. The rent arrangements hint at roommates only.

BUT

There is something disingenuous about a man who claims to have refused to join the Tory party because of Clause 28 and is on record as voting against it, yet is apparently so ashamed at his own relationships and sexuality that he would go against his own conscience to protect it.

If this had come out in the main scandal then it would have been worthy of little comment now. It is sad that we have lost one of the most astute financial brains from a position where he could have done most good through his own silliness. Laws was a retired millionaire at the age of 28, and genuinely went into politics to make a difference and benefit his country rather than himself. We could do with a few more of them!

I couldn't agree more with this post, surely the fact that he claimed no other living expenses should be a redeeming factor?

The real reason he had to resign if we are being truthful, besides most people saying it is not an issue in their own opinion is because his was a homosexual relationship, otherwise why would all the newspapers have put such a big emphasis on "Gay Lover" as if it is sordid? Perhaps that is the exact reason why he kept it private. an exceptionally private man who knew it would shadow any achievement he might subsequently make - but that is conjecture on my part.
The average claim for living expenses was £85, 000 , but this man claimed half of that, I'd say we should be giving him credit for that - after all it's not a claim for a pewter finish radiator cover or a duck house!
Once again this is a case of holding our politicians up to a standard we ourselves do not reach, we are almost asking to be lied to. Had he a wife and children and campaigned on family values it would be relevant, had he voted for clause 28 again it would be relevant, but he broke no law. I feel sorry for the man.
He deserves some praise for resigning though rather than bringing down an already fragile government, that says to me we have lost an honourable man also and any government needs more of those!

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

You are of course right. His position is indefensible and he had to go, although that didn't stop dozens of other politicians clinging to power with finger nails that were much stronger than their integrity.

That is why Party politics is yesterdays concept!

It is such a bitter disappointment though. I, along with millions of others, had so hoped that this coalition was the start of a brave new world, and that the days when our parliament was dogged by self-interest, sleaze, corruption, lies and dishonesty were over.

I am astonished that you were so naiive - surely you can not believe a prostitution of principles just to get power was ever going to work did you!
The very principles on which the coalition was founded were self-interest, sleaze, corruption, lies and dishonesty to gain power!

At the very least, on this occasion the guilty party fell on his sword with some vestige of integrity.

No he didn't - he is hanging onto office as an MP for grim death when he should have been frog marched out into a police van on the orders of the Prime Minister - David Laws is a thief, a liar, corrupt and self serving - he betrayed his electorate, he betrayed his party and he has betrayed his Country.
What date is his trial due and should he get 2 years or 4?

IF these gruby politicians fail to act then clearly they are there for Party NOT Country, Power not principle, enrichment not electorate.

Further every single solitary politician who stepped forward and tried to defend this sordid little man should be fined a month's wages as a reminder and the money be giiven to an ON SHORE charity defending children from abuse.

David Laws is beneath contempt - a multi Millionaire who was buying sex by stealing public funds to buy his partner a house!

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[joethfc]

As far as I know exploiting expenses is not the same as stealing - similar but not the same, that's why there haven't been criminal charges; I think they should all have to repay and also pay a fine for each x amount they wrongly claimed

This story just seems extremely convenient for the right wing press to pull out when a Lib Dem gets too big for his boots, there are very long lists of expenses taken out by MPs and other members of the cabinet but the press have decided to go after one who may have jeopardised their finances and assets.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

I couldn't agree more with this post, surely the fact that he claimed no other living expenses should be a redeeming factor?

The real reason he had to resign if we are being truthful, besides most people saying it is not an issue in their own opinion is because his was a homosexual relationship, otherwise why would all the newspapers have put such a big emphasis on "Gay Lover" as if it is sordid? Perhaps that is the exact reason why he kept it private. an exceptionally private man who knew it would shadow any achievement he might subsequently make - but that is conjecture on my part.
The average claim for living expenses was £85, 000 , but this man claimed half of that, I'd say we should be giving him credit for that - after all it's not a claim for a pewter finish radiator cover or a duck house!
Once again this is a case of holding our politicians up to a standard we ourselves do not reach, we are almost asking to be lied to. Had he a wife and children and campaigned on family values it would be relevant, had he voted for clause 28 again it would be relevant, but he broke no law. I feel sorry for the man.
He deserves some praise for resigning though rather than bringing down an already fragile government, that says to me we have lost an honourable man also and any government needs more of those!

Hi,

I guess we all have our own standards of morality - yours embrace corruption and mine do not.

The man was a disingenuous liar, cheat, thief and fraud - his sexuality is not for a moment an issue his perversion was accepted both by the law and by his electorate where only the dumbest in Yeovil would have believed him to be other than a pervert.

In respect of your comment 'you do feel sorry for him' firstly may I ask why you would feel sorry for a thief when he is caught and may I remind you of the biblical admonishment 'beware of pity'.

I can not concur your values or standards for probity in public office.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[coalition]

Will everybody stop bleating about astute brains, irreplaceable etc etc, the shmock was a politician and that says it all. What about Droopy squatting in 10 Dirt St. he had his finger in the expenses pie too ...... now, as a result of an illegal 'Constraint Agreement' with an naive foolish party he is our Dictator.

[octopus]

As far as I know exploiting expenses is not the same as stealing - similar but not the same, that's why there haven't been criminal charges; I think they should all have to repay and also pay a fine for each x amount they wrongly claimed

This story just seems extremely convenient for the right wing press to pull out when a Lib Dem gets too big for his boots, there are very long lists of expenses taken out by MPs and other members of the cabinet but the press have decided to go after one who may have jeopardised their finances and assets.

I don"t think HMRC would agree with you. If a person was to put force information on their tax return and managed to evade £40,000 of tax they were liable for, I think they would be hearing a lot more of it, if discovered. It wouldn"t be a matter of just paying it back - YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET A COUPLE OF YEARS PRISON AS WELL. I think it would be very much theft, or stealing in their eyes of the HMRC. I once underpaid them by 50p - I still had to pay it.

As for the right-wing press. One thing I always say about Labour, It"s never boring when they are in power; same for Lib-Dems, by the look of it.

[joethfc]

I don"t think HMRC would agree with you. If a person was to put force information on their tax return and managed to evade £40,000 of tax they were liable for, I think they would be hearing a lot more of it, if discovered. It wouldn"t be a matter of just paying it back - YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET A COUPLE OF YEARS PRISON AS WELL. I think it would be very much theft, or stealing in their eyes of the HMRC. I once underpaid them by 50p - I still had to pay it.

As for the right-wing press. One thing I always say about Labour, It"s never boring when they are in power; same for Lib-Dems, by the look of it.

kind of proves my point

taxes and expenses are different things once again - as a spurs fan I can sit pretty comfortably in the knowledge that Redkanpp won't do time for tax evasion so it isn't just politicians who get away with things

do you mean to say the HMRC regulate expenses?

[uncon]

Also given the behaviour of a certain man running for the labour leadership and his shadow cabinet minister wife...worse things were accepted.

[Opinionated]

last two off topic posts moved to http://www.politic.co.uk/announcemen...-and-jamc.html.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Also given the behaviour of a certain man running for the labour leadership and his shadow cabinet minister wife...worse things were accepted.

Hi,

I would hazard a guess that the Cooper's Balls thefts went relatively unchallenged as the money was stolen during a period of 13 unlucky years of unbridled irresponsibility and criminal neglect during which the Cabinet was permitted to lie unchallenged, commence a crime against humanity based on the lies of its leader and due to the staggering economic illiteracy of its ledership orchestrate the largest period by time and amount of privatisation for at least a Century with PFI which with other criminal mismanagement of our Nations finances has left us in debt to the tune of around £3 Trillion stripped of most of the assets we had prior to such irresponsible profligacy.

Let us hope that the present unelected regime has not prostituted all its principles for power and will show they have brought an end to criminality and theft of OUR money by corrupt politicians and show that by firing this sleazy parasite who expects us to pay for his perverse sexual practices debarring him from office now and forever as unfit and then handing him to the Courts for his abuse of public trust and fraud and let the Courts decide under which law he is prosecuted for his false accounting.

Tom Wise MEP was sentenced to 2 years for a lesser sum and it seems Lord Pearson, Nigel Farage MEP and Stuart Agnew MEP are under investigation for false accounting and money laundering as are Stuart Agnew MEP, David Bannerman MEP, Derek Clark MEP, and others I understand.

Similarly you will note UKIP as a political party is facinga confirmation of their Guilty verdict and a debt of around £1.2 Million for their dishonesty and financial corruption this coming Monday in The Supreme Court.

Why should David Laws be treated any differently and surely these are the people who make the laws we are expected to abide by therefore they MUST be seen to be bound by them also.

Regards,
Greg_L-W.

[ryoden]

I would say that he made the right decision in going, he at least gets points for acting honourably in that respect. I would give him the benefit of the doubt with regards to his reasons, some people don't want their private life made public although the cynic in my wonders why (seeing as he is a millionaire) he claimed any money that could be linked to his partner?

I would have said that any politician who was caught fiddling expenses should be fined an appropriate amount and removed from office along with any other case of dishonesty, since these people run the country and should above all things be honest. As has already been said fiddling expenses isnt a jailable offence, fraud is though. If I had been caught fiddling expenses in my job I would have probably been sacked so i don't see why politicians should be any different, if anything they should be held to higher standards.

[Opinionated]

I would have said that any politician who was caught fiddling expenses should be fined an appropriate amount and removed from office along with any other case of dishonesty, since these people run the country and should above all things be honest. As has already been said fiddling expenses isnt a jailable offence, fraud is though. If I had been caught fiddling expenses in my job I would have probably been sacked so i don't see why politicians should be any different, if anything they should be held to higher standards.

Have I missed something? It seems to me he claimed living expenses (half the average in fact) which he used to live - it just happens that that business arrangement was with a lover.

[coalition]

If you have have no wish for publicity about your private pastimes, why ever would you go into politics. This is certainly a mind unviolated by morality. Swindling the public purse, particularly as there is so little left in it, is the same as mugging an old lady. A long spell in prison is called for as a deterrant to others who feel it is their right to live off of the tax payer. Would we have enough room for all of them?

[Expounder]

You are of course right. His position is indefensible and he had to go, although that didn't stop dozens of other politicians clinging to power with finger nails that were much stronger than their integrity.

It is such a bitter disappointment though. I, along with millions of others, had so hoped that this coalition was the start of a brave new world, and that the days when our parliament was dogged by self-interest, sleaze, corruption, lies and dishonesty were over.

At the very least, on this occasion the guilty party fell on his sword with some vestige of integrity.

For Christ's sake the man is a multi millionaire and supposed to be the brain of Britain, why did the tight fisted tosser claim in the first place? Why did he not pay the "rent" to his "lover" out of his own pocket. Clegg and his whiter than white Lib Dems seem just as dishonest as all who falsely claimed expences. The case is no different in principle to the Hazel Blears case. he is the instrument of his own downfall. Had he owned up when the heat was on it would have been history now. No, he thought he could get away with it.

Send for the Tumbril off with his head and upset the major.

[Hengist]

On David Law's political past and future

Of Laws what is writ?
The hubris of a banker
Preaching public thrift?
What of the watchman
of the nation’s treasure
Who took from the hoard
To steal private pleasure?

Fools may proclaim
A Britain ingrate
To waste the talents
Of this Man of State.
Yet much better gone is he
who took his heavy duties light
to waste our talents on a sodomite.

[coalition]

Scans as though it is a pastiche from Gilgamesh but the 'talents' don't fit?

[ryoden]

Have I missed something? It seems to me he claimed living expenses (half the average in fact) which he used to live - it just happens that that business arrangement was with a lover.

Yes but that's like me staying with my wife and then paying her an inflated rent to do so. Actually I have no idea of whether the rent he paid was lower, average or higher for that type of accomodation, but I assume that the problem was due to his connection with the landlord.

In 2006, MPs were banned from “leasing accommodation from a partner”.

I apologise if my comment about fiddling expenses caused confusion, I meant it in the generic sense relating to all the recent MP's and their claims in general. Laws hasnt actually been fiddling expenses, he has just been taking money and using it for something that there was a rule against. I suppose it would come under deception rather than expense fiddling?

Considering that he is an intelligent millionaire I stand by my statement that I would have thought if he wanted to keep his personal life quiet then he should have either slept most nights elsewhere and claimed expenses for that while visiting his lover whenever or just paid the rent himself. It's a fairly clear rule by the looks of it and if I had been found to have broken such a rule in my job to the tune of (effectively defrauding my company) £40k then my employment would certainly be terminated, in fact I would consider myself lucky not to be prosecuted.

I realise though that MP's are different from normal people in that they aren't held up to the same rules as the rest of us, which is why I thought it was good of him to fall on his sword since he probably could have hung in there if he really wanted to.

[coalition]

Yes but that's like me staying with my wife and then paying her an inflated rent to do so. Actually I have no idea of whether the rent he paid was lower, average or higher for that type of accomodation, but I assume that the problem was due to his connection with the landlord.

In 2006, MPs were banned from “leasing accommodation from a partner”.

I apologise if my comment about fiddling expenses caused confusion, I meant it in the generic sense relating to all the recent MP's and their claims in general. Laws hasnt actually been fiddling expenses, he has just been taking money and using it for something that there was a rule against. I suppose it would come under deception rather than expense fiddling?

Considering that he is an intelligent millionaire I stand by my statement that I would have thought if he wanted to keep his personal life quiet then he should have either slept most nights elsewhere and claimed expenses for that while visiting his lover whenever or just paid the rent himself. It's a fairly clear rule by the looks of it and if I had been found to have broken such a rule in my job to the tune of (effectively defrauding my company) £40k then my employment would certainly be terminated, in fact I would consider myself lucky not to be prosecuted.

I realise though that MP's are different from normal people in that they aren't held up to the same rules as the rest of us, which is why I thought it was good of him to fall on his sword since he probably could have hung in there if he really wanted to.

For those misguided souls who supported D. Laws MP : you may, after reading his statement last night, wish to change your views.

It is clear that this is an unrepentant reprobate who, having conned the public purse, considers that the people of Yeovil are still good for a few bob to keep him in landlords.
What on Earth has this conman got to offer his constituents?
Integrity ....No

Confidence, of the non - trickster style ... No

Influence to assist them in their proplems ... definately not

Why then, are the voters of Yeovil being stuck with this lame rat?