Big Government and big society

[AMGINGLES]

David Cameron has launched his ingenious new plan , Big society which entails the british people doing their bit for society. David Cameron and his cohort of Bankers/New world order types have been supporting this country long enough with their offshore tax revenue and now its time for us underburdened scoundrels to roll up our sleves.
This ofcourse does not mean an end to Big government , oh no they will still be medicating your water and taxing you into the ground. Its because they love you silly.
get your work boots on and prepare to hug a hoody.

[fubar]

Well the people have there wish so thay think thay can do it better , while the government line there pockets and watch it collapse and then privatize the councils one by one using the excuse of you can't run it so we privatize it. another cash cow for the bankers and the people continue to pay for a service thay don't receive as it will be the lowest bid that clinches the deal from a bankrupt Council. not dissimilar from allowing the GPs running the national health service is it and pray tell what happens to the General practitioners after all is your GP not the first port of call before the Hospital ?? Is this not a case of closing the GP down and all of us going straight to Hospital to see your GP, as surly thay can't be expected to do two Jobs at once.

[AMGINGLES]

The gps in nuneaton are incompetent too , I am afraid for my health in the future. Yeah its all for the banks baby. I don't know if you've seen george orwells animal farm , well the bankers need all the milk and all the apples to keep their brains strong so they can lead, you don't want to go into recession again do you?

[Midas]

The gps in nuneaton are incompetent too , I am afraid for my health in the future. Yeah its all for the banks baby. I don't know if you've seen george orwells animal farm , well the bankers need all the milk and all the apples to keep their brains strong so they can lead, you don't want to go into recession again do you?

Please keep this discussion on topic - it's about David Cameron's "Big Society" proposals, not about incompetent GPs or banks or the recession.

[AMGINGLES]

Hows it off topic? We are talking about big society and big government and I am talking about the quality of health provided under the current circumstances and voicing my worries if this gp bill and the big society bill are enforced. This is about banks and it is about the recession , we can't afford to pay people to do the jobs , cameron wants volunteers to do because the banks caused the recession. Im dumbfounded how its off topic.

[MrMature]

Agreed it's not off topic. It's all part of the miserable future that awaits this country - 3.5 million unemployed by 2012, voluntary work being forced on you or you will loose your benefit (this is the 'Big Society'), the privatisation of the NHS by the back door, a large widening of the gap between the have and have nots, new schools for the wealthy and leeking schools in disrepair for the poor, rising crime reversing the trend of the last 20 years, 'winters of discontent' as strikes escalate and rioting returns to our streets. This is unfortunately is the reality going forward if the Government's plans announced so far are implemented.

[Major Sinic]

The opening post on this thread fails to understand the principle behind the Liberal Conservative Coalition Government's 'Big Society' initiative.

We are seeing increasing evidence that we have, albeit by chance, a radical and progressive government. The concept of the Big Society contributes to this evidence.

The Big Society, and no I am not convinced that the sound bite is worthy of the substance, is encapsulated by the essential concept of transferring or vesting of power with the people. This initiative if successful will bring about the biggest culture change in modern times, and one for the better. It is about empowering people to have the freedom, authority and incentive to personally influence their own communities for the common good. As David Cameron said it is the biggest, most dramatic transfer of power from the elites in Whitehall to the man and woman on the street. It will result in lower cost and less omnipotent central government. Had we the financial regulatory controls and public spending rstrictions of France and Germany for instance, we would not be running the risk of losing our AAA credit rating, or of running a £160b budget deficit

Unfortunately the very people who have the most to gain from this transfer of power, are almost certainly the same ones who will fail to recognise and grasp the opportunities, and will continue to blame 'the government' and 'the bankers' and 'big business' for all our ills. There will even be a few morons who will suggest that it is a conspiracy by the 'the bankers' to make themselves rich at the expense of the working class, despite the fact that the working class contribute b**** all to society economically speaking anyway.

Why this should be confused with the introduction of unpopular yet essential economic measures to wrestle the country back from the abyss of national bankruptcy I can only put down to the limited intellects of those who are confused. It was not this government which brought the country to its economic knees, nor was it 'the bankers' as a market sector, but a small minority of greedy and incompetent investment bankers ably assisted by an incompetent and corrupt Labour government and their unworkable regulatory system.

[Midas]

Hows it off topic? We are talking about big society and big government and I am talking about the quality of health provided under the current circumstances and voicing my worries if this gp bill and the big society bill are enforced. This is about banks and it is about the recession , we can't afford to pay people to do the jobs , cameron wants volunteers to do because the banks caused the recession. Im dumbfounded how its off topic.

Perhaps if you read the transcript of David Cameron's "Big Society" speech you'll clearly see what it is and what it isn't. What it does cover are things like more community say in local decisions like planning on housing developments, the running of parks, schools, libraries, museums and post offices, the local environment and street crime. It says there should be more accountability and transparency in local authority spending, more decentralisation of certain government powers and the general involvement of the community in matters which are of no direct concern to Westminster.

What it doesn't cover are things like banking, health services or the recession; that is why your post on those subjects is off-topic. Yes, some of the initiatives are as a result of recent social and economic problems inherited from the Labour government, however there are plenty of other threads discussing those.

[Major Sinic]

The opening post on this thread fails to understand the principle behind the Liberal Conservative Coalition Government's 'Big Society' initiative.

We are seeing increasing evidence that we have, albeit by chance, a radical and progressive government. The concept of the Big Society contributes to this evidence.

The Big Society, and no I am not convinced that the sound bite is worthy of the substance, is encapsulated by the essential concept of transferring or vesting of power with the people. This initiative if successful will bring about the biggest culture change in modern times, and one for the better. It is about empowering people to have the freedom, authority and incentive to personally influence their own communities for the common good. As David Cameron said it is the biggest, most dramatic transfer of power from the elites in Whitehall to the man and woman on the street. It will result in lower cost and less omnipotent central government. Had we the financial regulatory controls and public spending rstrictions of France and Germany for instance, we would not be running the risk of losing our AAA credit rating, or of running a £160b budget deficit

Unfortunately the very people who have the most to gain from this transfer of power, are almost certainly the same ones who will fail to recognise and grasp the opportunities, and will continue to blame 'the government' and 'the bankers' and 'big business' for all our ills. There will even be a few morons who will suggest that it is a conspiracy by the 'the bankers' to make themselves rich at the expense of the working class, despite the fact that the working class contribute b**** all to society economically speaking anyway.

Why this should be confused with the introduction of unpopular yet essential economic measures to wrestle the country back from the abyss of national bankruptcy I can only put down to the limited intellects of those who are confused. It was not this government which brought the country to its economic knees, nor was it 'the bankers' as a market sector, but a small minority of greedy and incompetent investment bankers ably assisted by an incompetent and corrupt Labour government and their unworkable regulatory system.

I have noticed after the edit facility expired that the last sentence of the third para should be the last sentence of the last para!!! My fat fingers on the edit button I'm afraid!!

[AMGINGLES]

Major what you say the working class contribute b******** all to society and the bankers do , all they do is print money and lend it to us at interest! we do all the commerce they do nothing and get paid a lot more for it. Its nice Midas that you believe Cameron , the man who will sell britain down the river , when he says volunteers will help run the community well. You are the sort of guy who probibly complains about the plastic police and probibly want more police with actual real powers who arent just laffed at? hmmm , am I right. Well welcome to mickey mouse banker paradise Police unveil their latest weapon against crime - bobbies on skateboards | Mail Online

[Midas]

Major what you say the working class contribute b******** all to society and the bankers do , all they do is print money and lend it to us at interest! we do all the commerce they do nothing and get paid a lot more for it. Its nice Midas that you believe Cameron , the man who will sell britain down the river , when he says volunteers will help run the community well. You are the sort of guy who probibly complains about the plastic police and probibly want more police with actual real powers who arent just laffed at? hmmm , am I right. Well welcome to mickey mouse banker paradise Police unveil their latest weapon against crime - bobbies on skateboards | Mail Online

It would seem that you completely fail to understand either economics or the way in which commerce works.

As for what a 3 year old out of context article about one policeman trying to help the local community by skateboarding with the local kids has got to do with this, I really don't know.

[Major Sinic]

Major what you say the working class contribute b******** all to society and the bankers do , all they do is print money and lend it to us at interest! we do all the commerce they do nothing and get paid a lot more for it. Its nice Midas that you believe Cameron , the man who will sell britain down the river , when he says volunteers will help run the community well. You are the sort of guy who probibly complains about the plastic police and probibly want more police with actual real powers who arent just laffed at? hmmm , am I right. Well welcome to mickey mouse banker paradise Police unveil their latest weapon against crime - bobbies on skateboards | Mail Online

This drivel is not worthy of a serious response.

[fubar]

The opening post on this thread fails to understand the principle behind the Liberal Conservative Coalition Government's 'Big Society' initiative.

We are seeing increasing evidence that we have, albeit by chance, a radical and progressive government. The concept of the Big Society contributes to this evidence.

who would ever agree with such a thing this is lets make it fail the implement NWO

The Big Society, and no I am not convinced that the sound bite is worthy of the substance, is encapsulated by the essential concept of transferring or vesting of power with the people. This initiative if successful will bring about the biggest culture change in modern times, and one for the better. It is about empowering people to have the freedom, authority and incentive to personally influence their own communities for the common good. As David Cameron said it is the biggest, most dramatic transfer of power from the elites in Whitehall to the man and woman on the street. It will result in lower cost and less omnipotent central government. Had we the financial regulatory controls and public spending restrictions of France and Germany for instance, we would not be running the risk of losing our AAA credit rating, or of running a £160b budget deficit.

Governance on the cheap

Unfortunately the very people who have the most to gain from this transfer of power, are almost certainly the same ones who will fail to recognize and grasp the opportunities, and will continue to blame 'the government' and 'the bankers' and 'big business' for all our ills. There will even be a few morons who will suggest that it is a conspiracy by the 'the bankers' to make themselves rich at the expense of the working class, despite the fact that the working class contribute b**** all to society economically speaking anyway..

The government govern just because thay have Fu**ed it up passing the batton over to people who don't know how to run the country even at a local level. is asking for trouble and thay dam well know it.I'm not saying it can't happen as it takes time but it will fail at some point and in that it will fail that is inevitable and that is what we can't afford, and with that failure it will be replaced by full EU governance.(NWO)

Why this should be confused with the introduction of unpopular yet essential economic measures to wrestle the country back from the abyss of national bankruptcy I can only put down to the limited intellects of those who are confused. It was not this government which brought the country to its economic knees, nor was it 'the bankers' as a market sector, but a small minority of greedy and incompetent investment bankers ably assisted by an incompetent and corrupt Labour government and their unworkable regulatory system.

You sir are a compleate and utter Twinkle toes and that is not a complement not from where i come from. if you truly belive that this a good idea you have s**t for brains as this will only end in tears mainly the working class you so fondly speak of. words fail me you are as thay say a ass sir so defend your self.

[Major Sinic]

You sir are a compleate and utter Twinkle toes and that is not a complement not from where i come from. if you truly belive that this a good idea you have s**t for brains as this will only end in tears mainly the working class you so fondly speak of. words fail me you are as thay say a ass sir so defend your self.

What from? An illiterate clown whose only contribution to the debate is personal abuse?

[fubar]

What from? An illiterate clown whose only contribution to the debate is personal abuse?

well i expected a little bit better from you considering your so well educated and all.and I'm apparently illiterate.

There will even be a few morons who will suggest that it is a conspiracy by the 'the bankers' to make themselves rich at the expense of the working class, despite the fact that the working class contribute b**** all to society economically speaking anyway..

this is what got me riled up you have the audacity to say that the working class contribute little or nothing to this economy could you please elaborate further. Its not a conspiracy it is a fact, the only people who have gained from this fraud are the Banks and other wealthy people. Yes at the expense of the working Class. Before i expand on this further could you please explain the reasoning behind your statement

[Major Sinic]

well i expected a little bit better from you considering your so well educated and all.and I'm apparently illiterate.

I don't respond well to personal abuse, particularly from one who offers no argued alternative. As to your lack of literacy, referral back to your post would rather confirm it.

this is what got me riled up you have the audacity to say that the working class contribute little or nothing to this economy could you please elaborate further. Its not a conspiracy it is a fact, the only people who have gained from this fraud are the Banks and other wealthy people. Yes at the expense of the working Class. Before i expand on this further could you please explain the reasoning behind your statement

Admittedly a generalisation on my part based on averages. You should not confuse a statement based on fact, with condemnation or censure. I do not condemn or censure the lower socio-economic groups as a whole, recognising that not all members or sectors of our society are able to contribute equally in economic terms. You earn less, you pay less tax and NI. Equally the less you earn the more the receive back in benefits

Total tax receipts (1909/10) are estimated to be £470 billion of which income tax and NI account for about half (£237b) Of this approximately 13% is contributed by those earning under £20,000 pa.( source IFS) Welfare benefits, the bulk of which go to the lower socio-economic groups, in 2009/10 are estimated at £187 billion.(source IFS) The inescapable conclusion is that the 'working class' make a minimal net contribution to the state coffers. Again I repeat that this is an observation, not a condemnation of all those who make little or no net financial contribution to society, for whatever reason. I consider myself fortunate that I am obliged and able to pay considerable sums in taxation, particularly now we have a government determined not to be as cavalier, irresponsible and profligate with it as the last lot.

I see no problem with those employed in banking and other 'wealthy people' benefiting from their efforts and skills in contributing to our financial recovery. I would expressly exclude from these, that small group of individuals from both investment banking and the public and political sectors responsible for financial regulation, who were responsible for making the current recession so much worse than it should have been.

[AMGINGLES]

Major Sinic , in all your wisdom you have forgotten to include the V.A.T and duties that the stinking masses pay , which proportionally is a lot more than the rich. Much of this goin as aid to foreign countries to make sure they are paid into the world government eugenics program.

Also , in saying that I do not understand economics I presume you mean that the bankers do not print money and give it to themselves in exchange for worthless or in some cases non-excistant assets or securities. Obviously you haven't ever heard of quantative easing or the great creation of debt from nothing with which to enslave the poor. If they really wanted to lend to businesses to boost the economy why not do it directly, why give it out to insiders who aren't going to lend most of it to business anyway.

[Midas]

Major Sinic , in all your wisdom you have forgotten to include the V.A.T and duties that the stinking masses pay , which proportionally is a lot more than the rich. Much of this goin as aid to foreign countries to make sure they are paid into the world government eugenics program.

I'm intrigued to know how you come to that conclusion - obviously you've not even bothered to check the figures. If you look at HM Revenue and Customs annual receipts for 2009/2010 you'd clearly see that VAT and duty receipts total just under £126 billion and they are included in the figure Major Sinic quoted.

Also , in saying that I do not understand economics

You can say that again!! But tell me, what has this got to do the David Cameron and his 'Big Society' concept? Would you please keep on topic.

[AMGINGLES]

It is nice of you midas and major to conside anyone earning over £20,000 as being a captain of industry , I consider rich bank shareholders and new world order contributants to be rather more wealthy , even those with the low hundreds of millions are considered by this group of people to be untermenschen. please look at the table in this link and look at the bank payroll tax , hehehe. Also you side stepped the quantative easing comment.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_rec...-taxpayers.pdf

Again midas it is on topic , because the bankers put us into debt slavery we cant afford to hire any council workers.

[Midas]

It is nice of you midas and major to conside anyone earning over £20,000 as being a captain of industry , I consider rich bank shareholders and new world order contributants to be rather more wealthy , even those with the low hundreds of millions are considered by this group of people to be untermenschen. please look at the table in this link and look at the bank payroll tax , hehehe. Also you side stepped the quantative easing comment.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/tax_rec...-taxpayers.pdf

Again midas it is on topic , because the bankers put us into debt slavery we cant afford to hire any council workers.

Err, where did either Major Sinic or I say any such thing? The only reference was one of the Major's saying "Of this approximately 13% is contributed by those earning under £20,000 pa.". How on earth do you draw such a weird conclusion from a factual statement regarding tax receipts?

Given your own confession of an ignorance of economics, do you actually know what the bank payroll tax is? I'd guess the answer is 'no' because if you did you'd realise why the appropriate column in that table is zero - the tax was only introduced late last year and receipts for it are yet to to be accounted for, simple. Hardly any conspiracy there is there?

But can we please move this topic back to David Cameron's 'Big Society' speech......

[AMGINGLES]

So why did major choose the £20 , 000 mark , have things got so bad in this country that £20 ,000 is a social indicator.

[Midas]

So why did major choose the £20 , 000 mark , have things got so bad in this country that £20 ,000 is a social indicator.

Could it perhaps be because the IFS (institute of Fiscal Studies) report the Major used took that figure as a benchmark for splitting tax receipts into round number income bands do you think? The reason is irrelevent to the 'Big Society' topic though.

[Major Sinic]

So why did major choose the £20 , 000 mark , have things got so bad in this country that £20 ,000 is a social indicator.

The average private sector annual gross wage is just above that figure. The statistics from the IFS used that figure as one of their bench marks.

[AMGINGLES]

to understand big society we must understand its contributants , do the bankers in their offshore taxhaven villas care if there is someone disinfecting the floor of the local leisure centre changing room , I think not , does someone earning £40,000 a year , just unable to get a mortgage for a house with a swimming pool care , if he uses the pool yes , this is the point Im making , someone of £20,ooo a year or of £40,000 need the same services and proportionally to their wages pay similar taxes , where the bankers come here , swagger about , put everyone in debt , drink champagne bought with public money at lick arse events payed for with the public purse.

London threatened by bankers tax: mayor

The bankers have us by the testicles and big society is not going to change that , interest payments on the public debt will be £31 billion a year if things stay the way they are. We will spend £104 billion on the NHS in 2010/11 , it shows how this debt driven economy is numerically killing us and the big difference betwwen now and the last recession is private debt. It was the housing market and construction that helped pull us out of the last recession , now no one has money for a repeat of that.

And midas it wasn't me who started talking about income it was the good major so slabber at him.