Anti-Americanism

[Balthazar]

A nice New Yorker - Timothy - has expressed concern about anti-Americanism on this forum. How widespread is it?

NB This is a multiple choice open poll. Vote early and often!

[Opinionated]

I've gone for "I distinguish between the people and the government" because I genuinely try to, but all the above can be annoying in their own way!

[Midas]

During my quite extensive travels I'd say that perhaps the biggest single negative comment that I've heard about America is that they (both as a country and as people) always think they're right and have very little conception that there are a multiplicity of other views around the world, views that are equally right for those concerned. Perhaps tellingly, and particularly with respect to people in the Middle East, there's a very distinct separation in their minds between people and government for most countries, including the UK, but not for America, they're viewed as one and the same.

I've also found that several times when I've talked to Americans who've come over to Europe on their first trip outside the US, they're genuinely amazed at how most people this side of the Atlantic do view them. A large part of the blame for this must be the very US-centric view of the world put out by the media there, something I've noticed time and time again on my own trips State-side.

[DTE]

I voted for all of them except the tourists, they don't annoy me at all. I do seperate these categories from the American public at large though, and I don't agree that Anti-Americanism is out of control on these boards, you have to remember that this is a uk forum, and as such just reflects the amount of anti-American feeling there is in this country. But again, its all directed at the last government, although the religious right movement do get their fair share of stick as well, and rightly so.

[Balthazar]

I've PMd this thread to Timothy.

I voted for all of them except the tourists, they don't annoy me at all.

I don't mind the tourists either. Indeed, Yankee tourists are considerably more courteous than British holiday-makers abroad. Working class Brits in Spain seem to spend their entire time throwing up, while middle class Brits in France insist on shouting at their absurdly named children in public places. I notice it too in London. They name their children "Cecil" and "Caractacus" and "Boudicca" and then yell at them, as if to tell the whole world what wonderful parents they are and how everyone should emulate them.

So don't worry Jeremy. You're much loved really. Just stop dropping bombs on brown people, there's a good chap.

[Avatar33]

How do I respond to the pole?

First things first.

Haven't met anyone yet over here who believes in the Stork ( even if they don't except Evolution).

Have meet a few nut jobs who want a race war,but very, very few.

No matter where you live in the world, tourists are always going to a strange out of place indiviual ( and the farther from, the stranger).

The Patroit Act has so far not denied any American citizen of their rights under the Bill Of Rights.

[Timothy]

These are just more foolish insults. Junk.

Why on earth would people spend so much time, effort and energy attempting to put together crude and offensive remarks about the people of another nation? No doubt this passes as humor in your circles. It is merely pathetic.

Those who indulge in childish xenophobia are in no position to mock and ridicule the people of other countries. You need to address your own issues first - BEFORE you insult others.

[JacquesMagique]

.

Why on earth would people spend so much time, effort and energy attempting to put together crude and offensive remarks about the people of another nation? No doubt this passes as humor in your circles. It is merely pathetic.

Why on earth would somebody spend so much time finding every single reference to America on a forum just to whine about it BOOHOO

You need to relax tim, maybe there would be significantly less hostility to the American government and financial elite if they hadn't spent the last half century policing the world and pillaging it's natural resources, expoliting developing countries.

[Balthazar]

These are just more foolish insults. Junk.

Why on earth would people spend so much time, effort and energy attempting to put together crude and offensive remarks about the people of another nation? No doubt this passes as humor in your circles. It is merely pathetic.

Those who indulge in childish xenophobia are in no position to mock and ridicule the people of other countries. You need to address your own issues first - BEFORE you insult others.

Oh Lordy, Don't you think you're being a bit precious, pompous and humourless? Conforming precisely, in fact, to the irony-free Yank stereotype? When Americans behave in a ludicrous manner as individuals, or brutally as a government, don't you think they deserve to be be laughed at, and criticised, particularly on a politics forum?

Lighten up mate. The more you stick your little chest out and moan about beastly anti-Americanism the more I'll laugh at you.

[Timothy]

Oh Lordy, Don't you think you're being a bit precious, pompous and humourless? Conforming precisely, in fact, to the irony-free Yank stereotype? When Americans behave in a ludicrous manner as individuals, or brutally as a government, don't you think they deserve to be be laughed at, and criticised, particularly on a politics forum?

Lighten up mate. The more you stick your little chest out and moan about beastly anti-Americanism the more I'll laugh at you.

Ah! So personal insults are fair game here, are they?

Interesting way to run a forum.

But surely even you must run out of insults eventually. If you want to spend your day "sticking out your chest" and laughing at strangers on the internet, you are hardly in a position to portray yourself as superior.

Well, enjoy yourself. The sheer stupidity of your comments may delight your numerous friends here. But to me they are rubbish. Nothing more.

[Midas]

OK, OK, enough please. Let's get this thread back on track and stop trading insults or it's going to be closed.

[Balthazar]

But surely even you must run out of insults eventually.

Nope, I never have so far when dealing with precious, pompous, humourless, censorious Yanks on the internet who've had a sense of humour by-pass.

[JacquesMagique]

Why is it that you continue to fail at addressing all of the relevant points made and instead just complain about the light-hearted jokes?

[Timothy]

Trading insults? This entire thread is just baiting. Surely there is a joke section for this sort of junk?

But I won't interfere with the clique....Some things are the same in every nation.

[Timothy]

Why is it that you continue to fail at addressing all of the relevant points made and instead just complain about the light-hearted jokes?

Quite false!

I have responded to several serious comments on several different threads. Keeping up with the remarks about Americans is no easy task! So many of you are so prolific!

[Balthazar]

I'm pleased to announce that Timothy and I have smoked a pipe of peace following a powwow in the chatbox. How!

[Timothy]

I'm pleased to announce that Timothy and I have smoked a pipe of peace following a powwow in the chatbox. How!

Yup

[claire]

I voted for a couple but "Neocon Yanks who think might = right" was my favorite. So prevalent in redneck areas lol. I was a little hesitant because these peeps generally coincide with the "Rapture' and 'End of Days' Yanks who want WW3".

[Balthazar]

I'm sorry to report that hostilities have broken out again.

Yup

White man speak with forked tongue!

[Midas]

I voted for a couple but "Neocon Yanks who think might = right" was my favorite. So prevalent in redneck areas lol. I was a little hesitant because these peeps generally coincide with the "Rapture' and 'End of Days' Yanks who want WW3".

Nice to see an American voting like that Claire! Good for you.

[DTE]

Maybe the problem is because the negative aspects of American culture (or some of them anyway) are hilarious. Whereas the negative aspects of British culture are just depressing, and almost every other thread is devoted to them anyway.

Sorry Tim if you think I'm just being spiteful, but I think we have a legitimate beef with the last Amercian administration, and both politically and culturally it feels like we are basically governed by America, so thats going to cause a bit of ill-feeling.

Out of interest Timothy, what particular subjects of Anti-Amercianism do you have a problem with? And do you understand those positions or think them completely unfounded?

[pauli007001]

Way to pick the most negative (tiny )minorities of the US and paint them as the norm.
What about the ordiary every day American working his fingers to the bone to support his family?Just like his UK peers.
What about the regular joe worker, the nurse, the DR, the soldier, the normal people in the USA(the ones the BBC dosnt show you)!!!!

[Balthazar]

Way to pick the most negative (tiny )minorities of the US and paint them as the norm.
What about the ordiary every day American working his fingers to the bone to support his family?Just like his UK peers.
What about the regular joe worker, the nurse, the DR, the soldier, the normal people in the USA(the ones the BBC dosnt show you)!!!!

See the poll question: Which Yanks annoy you/make you laugh the most? The people you mention are nice people. They neither annoy me nor make me laugh. See?

[DTE]

At the risk of further alienating certain American members, I'd like to add a category to 'Yanks who piss me off'.

Golf fans who shout "Get in the Hole!" regardless of whether the player in question is putting, playing out of the rough or just tee-ing off.

Gets right up my nose it does.

[Balthazar]

At the risk of further alienating certain American members

I don't want to alienate anyone either. But, at the same time, I'm damned if I'm going to be forced into some PC corner. All hell would break loose if a Muslim came on this site and ran about instructing members not to mention daft things that some Muslims do. I favour a level playing field. Let lunatic Yanks, Brits and Muslims be treated exactly the same, i.e. their behaviour scrutinised, discussed and poked fun at in the normal manner.

I'm not too keen on blackmail either, implied or explicit. If a Muslim was to demand, say, that politicspoliticalforum.com members avoid discussing attitudes to women within conservative Islam, and threatened to throw their toys from the pram, leave the site, or run round nearly every thread complaining about it should their demand not be met, again their behaviour would produce a loud belly-laugh and they'd be told to sling their hook.

In other words, their attempt at blackmail would be met head on, their bluff called, their attempt to stifle free-speech-within-the-rules, rejected. I don't see why over-sensitive Yanks should be treated any differently.

[Timothy]

At the risk of further alienating certain American members, I'd like to add a category to 'Yanks who piss me off'.

Golf fans who shout "Get in the Hole!" regardless of whether the player in question is putting, playing out of the rough or just tee-ing off.

Gets right up my nose it does.

Oh - don't worry about alienating Americans here. That is already accomplished. Although it is interesting to note that there do not seem to be any rules at all here about baiting people.

As for your 'complaints' about American golfers - that must indeed be very difficult for you. All those people - and especially all those terrible Americans - offending you! Hopefully things will improve for sensitive people such as yourself....

[Timothy]

..Let lunatic Yanks, Brits and Muslims be treated exactly the same, i.e. their behaviour scrutinised, discussed and poked fun at in the normal manner.
...In other words, their attempt at blackmail would be met head on, their bluff called, their attempt to stifle free-speech-within-the-rules, rejected. I don't see why over-sensitive Yanks should be treated any differently.

Don't kid yourself that you are some sort of brave truth teller. These 'observations' of yours are not examples of opposing political correctness. They are just a series of spiteful, angry insults intended to rile people. Then when you are called on it, you run and hide.

But the real question, of course, is why your abuse is allowed to remain.

Perhaps we should 'scrutinize' and 'discuss' the behavior of xenophobes?

[DTE]

Okay Tim. *takes off gloves*

I really don't see what your problem is? This thread is a lighthearted look at types of Americans, or more specifically types of American behaviour, which annoy us. Why is it that you feel personally insulted by every additonal post? When people have a go at the British underclass, with their broken families, barely educated youth and thick as **** adults with bad teeth (why do they always have bad teeth?) I don't get offended on behalf of them. I accept these people exist, because they do exist, and taking the piss out of them is no skin off my nose.

Now if we were to really get into the subject of Anti-Americanism, discussing the subjects that ACTUALLY do contribute to the amount of ill feeling towards your country, then maybe you'd have a point. But considering you refuse to even comment on anything political (despite repeated attempts at getting you to do so) I really don't understand why you continue to feel victimised.

[Timothy]

Okay Tim. *takes off gloves*

I really don't see what your problem is? This thread is a lighthearted look at types of Americans, or more specifically types of American behaviour, which annoy us. Why is it that you feel personally insulted by every additonal post? When people have a go at the British underclass, with their broken families, barely educated youth and thick as **** adults with bad teeth (why do they always have bad teeth?) I don't get offended on behalf of them. I accept these people exist, because they do exist, and taking the piss out of them is no skin off my nose.

Now if we were to really get into the subject of Anti-Americanism, discussing the subjects that ACTUALLY do contribute to the amount of ill feeling towards you country, then maybe you'd have a point. But considering you refuse to even comment on anything political (despite repeated attempts at getting you to do so) I really don't understand why you continue to feel victimised.

*chuckle*

Gloves off! Threatening indeed.

Are you suggesting that prior to this removal of gloves you were civil, thoughtful and reasonable?

No doubt your list of why you hate Americans is very long and detailed. The gripes and complaints of most xenophobes usually add up to a long - and paranoid - list.

I am very well aware of the ferocious intensity of the hatred directed towards Americans. You seem to think it is well hidden. The posters here are not subtle: indeed, the level of malice and contempt seems more than a little crazy.

I am not aware of the many attempts you have made at civil dialogue. When I find such a post I may address it.

One suggestion: it is usually helpful to address your own issues BEFORE you attack others. It is more productive, constructive and conducive to discussion.

[Balthazar]

Don't kid yourself that you are some sort of brave truth teller. These 'observations' of yours are not examples of opposing political correctness. They is just a series of spiteful, angry insults intended to rile people. Then when you are called on it, you run and hide.

Run and hide? I've met your criticisms head on. I think you're trying to blackmail this forum into allowing Yanks special privileges.

But the real question, of course, is why your abuse is allowed to remain.

It's not abuse. It's (a) having a laugh, within the rules of the site, at lunatic Yankee stereotypes and (b) criticising you for objecting, and laughing at your quite startling humourlessness, pomposity and self-righteousness.

Perhaps we should 'scrutinize' and 'discuss' the behavior of xenophobes?

Feel free. Go on. Start a thread about it young fellow-me-lad.

[Timothy]

Run and hide? I've met your criticisms head on. I think you're trying to blackmail this forum into allowing Yanks special privileges.

*chuckle*

Special privileges! Yes, that is what I am looking for: civil, thoughtful, intelligent discussion is indeed special on this forum.

Your portrayal of yourself as a truth-telling victim of political correctness is absurd and boring.

Hatred of Americans is the essence of political correctness.

It's not abuse. It's (a) having a laugh, within the rules of the site, at lunatic Yankee stereotypes and (b) criticising you for objecting, and laughing at your quite startling humourlessness, pomposity and self-righteousness.

Well, it's a match for your spite, contempt, malice, arrogance and hysterical contempt for Americans.

Since all of this weird abuse is apparently fair game - I might as well join in!

Feel free. Go on. Start a thread about it young fellow-me-lad.

But you have already started it! Every post of yours adds to the fun.

[DTE]

*chuckle*

Gloves off! Threatening indeed.

Are you suggesting that prior to this removal of gloves you were civil, thoughtful and reasonable?

I have not once insulted you. Whereas you have called me, pathetic, xenophobic and all manner of other insulting adjectives.

No doubt your list of why you hate Americans is very long and detailed. The gripes and complaints of most xenophobes usually add up to a long - and paranoid - list.

This thread is not called "why do we hate Americans". I don't hate Americans. The occasional American *Cheney, cough cough* maybe.

I am very well aware of the ferocious intensity of the hatred directed towards Americans. You seem to think it is well hidden. The posters here are not subtle: indeed, the level of malice and contempt seems more than a little crazy.

Again calling people crazy without offering any examples or engaging on the issue.

I am not aware of the many attempts you have made at civil dialogue. When I find such a post I may address it.

Here we go, did'nt have to look far for this one, its only about 5 posts down the page.

Sorry Tim if you think I'm just being spiteful, but I think we have a legitimate beef with the last Amercian administration, and both politically and culturally it feels like we are basically governed by America, so thats going to cause a bit of ill-feeling.

Out of interest Timothy, what particular subjects of Anti-Amercianism do you have a problem with? And do you understand those positions or think them completely unfounded?

One suggestion: it is usually helpful to address your own issues BEFORE you attack others. It is more productive, constructive and conducive to discussion.

Funny, because discussion actually involves BOTH parties talking about the issue at hand. All you've done so far is attack my reasoning without offering a single opnion of your own.

[Timothy]

Again calling people crazy without offering any examples or engaging on the issue.

Rubbish.

Put yourself in the position of an American and read over this forum.

Here we go, did'nt have to look far for this one, its only about 5 posts down the page.

Very well, fair point. I will consider addressing this.

But let's get this straight first, buddy:

Whatever beef you have with Americans, I am not on trial and do not owe you any answers.

It may be that I am more in agreement with you than you may think. *gasp*! But we shall see.

I am at work and as much fun as all of this is, I have to attend to other things, but I will be back.

[claire]

wow. wow. wow. This thread is a joke and should be treated as such. Everybody needs to calm down.

[Timothy]

wow. wow. wow. This thread is a joke and should be treated as such. Everybody needs to calm down.

Too late for that, kiddo

[Marxist Nutter]

Unless I am very much mistaken criticism is integral to a free and open democracy. Thus to criticise America is very much in the spirit of this democracy. The spirit I always thought that Americans are (rightly) very proud of and hold dear. perhaps I was wrong to think this?

[Timothy]

Unless I am very much mistaken criticism is integral to a free and open democracy. Thus to criticise America is very much in the spirit of this democracy. The spirit I always thought that Americans are (rightly) very proud of and hold dear. perhaps I was wrong to think this?

*smile*

Very shrewd. But it's a bit late for that.

These comments go far, far beyond thoughtful criticism. Most of this is just venting and mockery and rage.

I have read several of your posts, incuding your extraordinarily malicious and unpleasant comments about American military personnel; whatever one thinks of policy, usually those who fight and die are out of bounds.

I will use a very old-fashioned comment that has fallen out of regular use in the US and probably in Britain as well - but it fits this situation.

It is bad form.

[Marxist Nutter]

*smile*

Very shrewd. But it's a bit late for that.

These comments go far, far beyond thoughtful criticism. Most of this is just venting and mockery and rage.

I have read several of your posts, incuding your extraordinarily malicious and unpleasant comments about American military personnel; whatever one thinks of policy, usually those who fight and die are out of bounds.

I will use a very old-fashioned comment that has fallen out of regular use in the US and probably in Britain as well - but it fits this situation.

It is bad form.

Not contesting military action is a very dangerous thing indeed. To excluded it from democracy could conceivably lead to fascism. Questioning the strength of the US military seems very valid to me especially as Britain is increasingly relying on it for our own defence and as it is engaged in numerous global hostile actions which depletes its defensive capability. This should be of concern to all citizens of the US and Europe!

[Timothy]

Not contesting military action is a very dangerous thing indeed. To excluded it from democracy could conceivably lead to fascism. Questioning the strength of the US military seems very valid to me especially as Britain is increasingly relying on it for our own defence and as it is engaged in numerous global hostile actions which depletes its defensive capability. This should be of concern to all citizens of the US and Europe!

Seriously questioning military competence is certainly important and necessary. On that we are in agreement. I did not see many pieces of data in your comments. They consisted mostly of insults thrown around.

But first I will ask: Why on earth would you be concerned about the American military?

There is no future for the relations between our nations. We will maintain necessary economic ties and go through the niceties of diplomatic exchange. But no alliance is possible in the current climate of hysterical and militant anti-Americanism. That is obvious.

There is no conceivable reason for Britain to want an alliance with Americans; when hatred of a supposed ally reaches this point, the alliance collapses under its own weight.

If Britain is really looking to the US military for defense, that should be your primary concern. The answer, clearly, is to elect politicians in Britain who will end the formal connections between our nations and then go on to either spend more money on your own military and/or develop relations with nations instead of the US.

[Marxist Nutter]

Seriously questioning military competence is certainly important and necessary. On that we are in agreement. I did not see many pieces of data in your comments. They consisted mostly of insults thrown around.

I have to admit most Americans I have debated with before have had a much thicker skin. I really don't know to what 'insults' you refer, but I certainly make no bones about pointing out that the USA has a penchant for attacking those weaker than it (much much weaker) and does not seem to do very well even at that. Now if you find that insulting then i suggest you bury your head in the sand and say 'la la la' as loud as you can as sometimes the truth hurts!

But first I will ask: Why on earth would you be concerned about the American military?

Coz of what they do. I don;t think I have ever attacked individual members of the armed forces although I may have shown video evidence of some of them acting a a way that people may consider somewhat cowardly.

There is no future for the relations between our nations. We will maintain necessary economic ties and go through the niceties of diplomatic exchange. But no alliance is possible in the current climate of hysterical and militant anti-Americanism. That is obvious.

You have shown no evidence of this supposed 'anti americanism' of which you speak (not on this forum or elsewhere) now excuse the world for not bending over and kissing Bush's backside but really if you are going to assert something and not back it up with anything you are going to find yourself increasingly looking the fool.

There is no conceivable reason for Britain to want an alliance with Americans; when hatred of a supposed ally reaches this point, the alliance collapses under its own weight.

see above

If Britain is really looking to the US military for defense, that should be your primary concern. The answer, clearly, is to elect politicians in Britain who will end the formal connections between our nations and then go on to either spend more money on your own military and/or develop relations with nations instead of the US.

I will take your suggestion under advisement it is not without merit. However I have no qualms with the USA in general, and if they are willing to accept criticsim then we may have a long and fruitful relationship.

[Timothy]

I have to admit most Americans I have debated with before have had a much thicker skin. I really don't know to what 'insults' you refer, but I certainly make no bones about pointing out that the USA has a penchant for attacking those weaker than it (much much weaker) and does not seem to do very well even at that. Now if you find that insulting then i suggest you bury your head in the sand and say 'la la la' as loud as you can as sometimes the truth hurts!

Oh, enough. You have made it clear what you think about Americans.

Now "quit yer whining", vote in politicians in your own country who will start a new policy and end all formal alliances with Americans, and put your energies to better use.

Coz of what they do. I don;t think I have ever attacked individual members of the armed forces although I may have shown video evidence of some of them acting a a way that people may consider somewhat cowardly.

Yes, indeed.

It's all too much for you. Americans are evil. Repeat again and again.

Ye gods - you talk about a thin skin? You whine and gripe and complain and nag like a 73 year old matron abusing a despised neighbor over coffee.

I agree that there have been terrible things done. But in your weird fantasy, Americans are always evil. That is a child's cartoon view of reality.

You have shown no evidence of this supposed 'anti americanism' of which you speak (not on this forum or elsewhere) now excuse the world for not bending over and kissing Bush's backside but really if you are going to assert something and not back it up with anything you are going to find yourself increasingly looking the fool.

I am no fan of Bush. You have no idea at all what I think about him.

As for anti-Americanism, I wouldn't make references to being a 'fool' if I were you. The hatred of Americans is here is way over the top - and it is fascinating.

I will take your suggestion under advisement it is not without merit. However I have no qualms with the USA in general, and if they are willing to accept criticsim then we may have a long and fruitful relationship.

Rubbish.

It's easy to posture and pout and scream and have tantrums about those terrible Americans.

Now it's time for all those who indulge in such childish antics to get off your collective backsides and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

You are all talk and no action.

Cuddle up to militant Islam.

Sign a pact with the Chinese.

Form an agreement with Moscow.

Just do something.

But stop blaming Americans for all of your problems.

You are drowning in a vat of self-pity.

[Marxist Nutter]

Oh, enough. You have made it clear what you think about Americans.

Now "quit yer whining", vote in politicians in your own country who will start a new policy and end all formal alliances with Americans, and put your energies to better use.




Yes, indeed.

It's all too much for you. Americans are evil. Repeat again and again.

Ye gods - you talk about a thin skin? You whine and gripe and complain and nag like a 73 year old matron abusing a despised neighbor over coffee.

I agree that there have been terrible things done. But in your weird fantasy, Americans are always evil. That is a child's cartoon view of reality.



I am no fan of Bush. You have no idea at all what I think about him.

As for anti-Americanism, I wouldn't make references to being a 'fool' if I were you. The hatred of Americans is here is way over the top - and it is fascinating.




Rubbish.

It's easy to posture and pout and scream and have tantrums about those terrible Americans.

Now it's time for all those who indulge in such childish antics to get off your collective backsides and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

You are all talk and no action.

Cuddle up to militant Islam.

Sign a pact with the Chinese.

Form an agreement with Moscow.

Just do something.

But stop blaming Americans for all of your problems.

You are drowning in a vat of self-pity.

Ok so you not only fail to demonstrate how anyone here is anti-american you follow this up with anti-Britishness. Fine by me I am no great fan of the UK government or culture either (I'm sure there are more than a few here who would testify to this!).

I don't blame America for my problem. I blame them for the atrocities they have committed and for their imperialism and bullying tactics. Now I have said much the same about the UK (in fact in much stronger terms). Again many can vouch for this.

You are the one who appears to be whining here nobody else

[DTE]

But let's get this straight first, buddy:

Whatever beef you have with Americans, I am not on trial and do not owe you any answers.

It may be that I am more in agreement with you than you may think. *gasp*! But we shall see.

I am at work and as much fun as all of this is, I have to attend to other things, but I will be back.

Yay! Buddies. Okay Sonny Jim(thats an attempt to replicate the cultural meaning of your original term of endearment), I'm not suggesting you owe me any answers, its just that...you know this is a politics forum and usually when someone adopts a position politically, rather than just attack those who don't agree with you, they will tend offer one themselves. So far, you have not done this.

I'll wait until you do.

[Timothy]

Yay! Buddies. Okay Sonny Jim(thats an attempt to replicate the cultural meaning of your original term of endearment), I'm not suggesting you owe me any answers, its just that...you know this is a politics forum and usually when someone adopts a position politically, rather than just attack those who don't agree with you, they will tend offer one themselves. So far, you have not done this.

I'll wait until you do.

Read my posts. I have offered views on several different topics. If you have a specific topic, then make reference to it.